94.9 is possible - with a catch.

[RadioPhillyFan]

I'm new to radio, looking to getting into the field, so i may be wrong, but wkth the removal of WAYV, a 94.9 Class B can be placed in Media's tower hill, WRNB is 60+ miles from WZZO and WDSD, with the removal or downgrade of WAYV, a 94.9 could be operational (at least as Class A).

 

[Slinky]

Too close, even with a class A.

WRBT is a co-channel class B 136 km away from WRNB's auxillary antenna. FCC requires A to B co-channel spacing of at least 178 km.

WDSD is an adjacent channel class B 87 km away and WZZO is an adjacent channel class B 73 km away. FCC requires A to B adjacent channel spacing of at least 113 km.

WPST is a second-adjacent channel 55 km away. FCC requires A to B second-adjacent channel spacing of at least 69 km.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

That sucks; would be perfect for a KYW simulcast on FM if it could have worked. I doubt a Class A would cause any issues, anyway. I even doubt a Class B would cause issues; let alone be noticed by a portion of the Dover snd Allentown market.

 

[ka2xuk]

I'm new to radio, looking to getting into the field, so i may be wrong, but wkth the removal of WAYV, a 94.9 Class B can be placed in Media's tower hill, WRNB is 60+ miles from WZZO and WDSD, with the removal or downgrade of WAYV, a 94.9 could be operational (at least as Class A).

Why would "they" remove or downgrade WAYV? That is one of the most successful stations in Atlantic City and the crown jewel of Gary Fisher's cluster.

 

[DG02816]

Why would anyone think of downgrading a successful Atlantic City FM just to stuff in another allotment to Philly ? Sounds much worse than naive.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

Why would anyone think of downgrading a successful Atlantic City FM just to stuff in another allotment to Philly ? Sounds much worse than naive.

CBS buys ans kills WAYV
Makes KYW-FM.

 

[amfmsw]

You don't 'kill' perectly good, heritage, full power Class B FM's in rated markets to put an inferior Class A on the air in a larger one...a signal that won't cover the Arbitron designated market. That's 8 counties, with a city protected countour. Yet alone do it to one that's already billing million$ annually. WAYV is not some loser radio station. It's a highly rated cash cow. And it's part of the community down here. That's like saying why can't we just sign-off WIP-FM so WIBG-FM can return to it's original frequency and Class? Philly already has plenty of big signals...YOU take the 94.3.

CBS had their chance at KYW-FM with WKDN 106.9, and passed. They had it with 94.1, but thought preserving 610 programming was more urgent.

And again...even with Vaseline and a shoehorn, 94.9 won't fit except as a translator, and then you have I.F. interference issues! And it matters GREATLY to the owners and investers and listeners of the adjacent station in the fringe when you interfere. You affect their livelihood. Just look at what IBOC AM did to adjacent stations hundreds of miles away. DG can attest to that mess.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

You don't 'kill' perectly good, heritage, full power Class B FM's in rated markets to put an inferior Class A on the air in a larger one...a signal that won't cover the Arbitron designated market. That's 8 counties, with a city protected countour. Yet alone do it to one that's already billing million$ annually. WAYV is not some loser radio station. It's a highly rated cash cow. And it's part of the community down here. That's like saying why can't we just sign-off WIP-FM so WIBG-FM can return to it's original frequency and Class? Philly already has plenty of big signals...YOU take the 94.3.

CBS had their chance at KYW-FM with WKDN 106.9, and passed. They had it with 94.1, but thought preserving 610 programming was more urgent.

And again...even with Vaseline and a shoehorn, 94.9 won't fit except as a translator, and then you have I.F. interference issues! And it matters GREATLY to the owners and investers and listeners of the adjacent station in the fringe when you interfere. You affect their livelihood. Just look at what IBOC AM did to adjacent stations hundreds of miles away. DG can attest to that mess.

KYW-AM bills a million a month - KYW-FM could overtake WBEB, and bill maybe two million a month.

 

[pab]

KYW-AM bills a million a month - KYW-FM could overtake WBEB, and bill maybe two million a month.

Two million a month is extremely unrealistic. Maybe a million and a quarter; most people who are going to advertise on KYW already do and you won't attract many more just because it's on FM.

Now factor in the THREE stations (you keep ignoring the ones to the West) you'd need to buy and then shut down, meaning that the money you spent on them would be flushed. PLUS you wouldn't be deleting the allocations so it wouldn't have much of a net effect on protection patterns once people snapped them up.

Please give up on the fantasy of a new allocation in Philadelphia; it is literally impossible.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

KYW-AM bills a million a month - KYW-FM could overtake WBEB, and bill maybe two million a month.

Two million a month is extremely unrealistic. Maybe a million and a quarter; most people who are going to advertise on KYW already do and you won't attract many more just because it's on FM.

Now factor in the THREE stations (you keep ignoring the ones to the West) you'd need to buy and then shut down, meaning that the money you spent on them would be flushed. PLUS you wouldn't be deleting the allocations so it wouldn't have much of a net effect on protection patterns once people snapped them up.

Please give up on the fantasy of a new allocation in Philadelphia; it is literally impossible.

Unless the FM band gets expanded; we won't see a new frequency if nothing is workable with 94.9

 

[John1]

You don't 'kill' perectly good, heritage, full power Class B FM's in rated markets to put an inferior Class A on the air in a larger one...a signal that won't cover the Arbitron designated market.

That is true - but reminds me of the recent CC action to move the consistently top rated station in Springfield, Ma. market (country WPKX) from Enfield, Ma. to Windsor Locks, CT. in the Hartford market & make it an ESPN affiliate & put Kix Country on a lesser signal.

 

[pab]

Unless the FM band gets expanded; we won't see a new frequency if nothing is workable with 94.9

...and that's the point. Nothing IS workable with 94.9, so we will never see another frequency in Philadelphia.

 

[nd2023]

Could 94.9 be used as a translator? A 250 watt translator in Roxborough or on top of the Comcast building can go a long way. The translator can translate an HD2.

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

Could 94.9 be used as a translator? A 250 watt translator in Roxborough or on top of the Comcast building can go a long way. The translator can translate an HD2.

That should work, sad that there's no class for 250-500kw that would allow something like 60 mile spacing allocations - the extra 250 kw would help.

But the comcast tower won't allow antenna's if i recall correctly, it'd need to be on Two Liberty or Merlon Bank Center, assuming One Liberty still is dealing with 93.3 and 107.9.

 

[KSB]

That should work, sad that there's no class for 250-500kw that would allow something like 60 mile spacing allocations - the extra 250 kw would help.

Yeah, an extra 250kW would really help!

 

[RadioPhillyFan]

That should work, sad that there's no class for 250-500kw that would allow something like 60 mile spacing allocations - the extra 250 kw would help.

Yeah, an extra 250kW would really help!

Sorry, I meant watts. 250-500 watts would be a good start for KYW-FM.

But 250+ is not a Class D (Translator) any more, I think they should have another class, that goes to 500 watts - that would be full urban coverage of KYW. Reach FM 97.1 does well, but it's an example of what 94.9 could operate as.

 

[pab]

KYW needs no signal help in the city; its problems are in the suburbs and in Jersey. 250 watts will do no good there.

 

[Steve Green NEPA]

It's not as though KYW is thumbing on the side of the road with a sign 'Will Give 22 Minutes For Food', either.

Two other thoughts:

Clear Channel, inventor of the modern shoehorn, put on a translator in NYC for a while on 106.3. It was directional as blazes. The new signal got all kinds of grief, especially from 106.3's Country station in New Jersey. So they signed off to 'reconfigure' matters
The 106.3 will be back. Just the proxy allocation alone is worth all of CC's New York HD signals combined and they fully realize this.

2: Isn't WPPZ, which showed up in the top ten in Philadelphia not too long back, a Class A?

 

[amfmsw]

Pab hit it home. 1060 in Center City, Montco and Camden Counties is hells bells strong. The problems are in the kidney shape pattern of KYW. http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KYW&service=AM&status=L&hours=U

Steve, yes WPPZ is a Class A, and to show that 250 watts would be of no use to KY, here WPPZ coverage at 270 watts @ 1109 ft. It doesn't even cover all of Cherry Hill with a City Grade. Just what KYW already reaches and not the points that need the help: Bucks, Trenton-Mercer County and Wilmington DE. http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WPPZ&service=FM&status=L&hours=U And putting HD on it? why, no one listens but geeks who write here...and I don't because I gave up on it and gave mine away! HD has no ownership or USE penetration. It's like FM in 1958. Worse.

No, the answer to their need was staring them in the face, and they froze like deer in the headlights on a Chester County backroad while Merlin waved their magic wand. When Merlin takes over and modernizes the audio chain and xmtr plant back to 2012 standards, it'll be a flamethrower. It'll cover everthing KYW misses now with standard, everybody has one, analog radio ON A NEARLY MATCHING FREQUENCY that's easy to remember 1060AM/106FM....they missed the boat on this. http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WKDN&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

 

[DG02816]

KYW's pattern shape is a 2-tower figure-8 with 10 augmentations. Here's a link to it:

http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine...SearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=1455707&sHours=U

The signal does have problems in Bucks County and Trenton due to the deep null toward NYC. It may also need to protect the ghost of a 1060 in Quebec. On the other side, toward Wilmington, the null protects WLNO New Orleans and XEEP in Mexico City.