97.1 The Fish?

[rbrucecarter5]

Christian Music is different than Gospel Music.....There is some crossover from KHVN and KLTY...but not much.

You got that right - there has been a movement for some years now, mainly by the anti-CCM / KJV only types to push SG as the ONLY acceptable Christian music. But then, some of those nuts even reject SG. Just because you are Christian - it doesn't mean you like SG. Or praise and worship for that matter.

 

[salemjedi54]

Christian Music is different than Gospel Music.....There is some crossover from KHVN and KLTY...but not much.

You got that right - there has been a movement for some years now, mainly by the anti-CCM / KJV only types to push SG as the ONLY acceptable Christian music. But then, some of those nuts even reject SG. Just because you are Christian - it doesn't mean you like SG. Or praise and worship for that matter.

I have tried to listen to KLTY and the music just does not move me. Only when a random Kirk Franklin or Mary, Mary comes up in the rotation. I'm not saying all black folk shun KLTY, but you not going to hear The Caravans, Pator Shirley Caesar, The Spiritual QC's, and The Willams Brothers on KLTY. You would wonder why the largest christian broadcaster would not try to run any black gospel stations. Its seems to me they totally ignore black folk. I would think with all their resources that they could be successful in that arena.

 

[skippertthomas]

Good thought, David... As a person who has spent half of his 30 years in CCM and even edgier Christian formats (radio-U and The Wire), TSL and history has made Christian A/C's like KLTY and KCMS (Seatlle) very succesfull in commerical Arbitron terms.. It's really hard to measure the total impact of CCM in the ratings, as 90% or greater of CCM stations (in A/C, CHR or other variations) are non-coms and only the big players buy the symposim numbers from Arbitron... They can only use them in basic terms and for research within their respective stations.. They cannot use them openly on 'the street'... EMF and Way can afford such research, as most cannot (being listener and underwriten supported)...

 

[skippertthomas]

Christian Music is different than Gospel Music.....There is some crossover from KHVN and KLTY...but not much. 

You got that right - there has been a movement for some years now, mainly by the anti-CCM / KJV only types to push SG as the ONLY acceptable Christian music.  But then, some of those nuts even reject SG.  Just because you are Christian - it doesn't mean you like SG.  Or praise and worship for that matter.

I have tried to listen to KLTY and the music just does not move me.  Only when a random Kirk Franklin or Mary, Mary comes up in the rotation.  I'm not saying all black folk shun KLTY, but you not going to hear The Caravans, Pator Shirley Caesar, The Spiritual QC's, and The Willams Brothers on KLTY.  You would wonder why the largest christian broadcaster would not try to run any black gospel stations.  Its seems to me they totally ignore black folk.  I would think with all their resources that they could be successful in that arena. 

Salem... Within the last ten years, CCM has had a division and parting of ways with many urban sounding artists that were as dominate on those A/C and CHR stations (of CCM elk)... It was Bobby Jones and his group that almost blackmailed those strong CCM artists to remove their involvement in the Gospel Music Association... When I was at Way, we were as into adding BeBe, CeCe, and a whole group of multi-racial urban to our CHR format.. It has "poofed" from the new releases.. My only concern with CCM is that it is, NOW, a suburban white female format that is lacking teens and 18 to 25 year olds.. Alot of contempoary praise has taken the formats (not a bad thing), which does not seem as strong with occasional church goers who have lost touch with the local church (paradox).. I felt when we did Way in the original form (I was the first hire and worked with the group 8 years), we were 90% formatic equal to our mainstream counterpart.. Since, CHR on the secular side has become urban-hip/hop and the Christian counterpart has gone more White laced, Hot A/C..... Just an observation....

 

[davideduardo]

We don't need another CCM format, KLTY is doing really well right now.

Doing well makes a station a target.

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

Christian Music is different than Gospel Music.....There is some crossover from KHVN and KLTY...but not much.

For all those interested, he is right. The music is different. Its focus? The same.

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

Salem... Within the last ten years, CCM has had a division and parting of ways with many urban sounding artists that were as dominate on those A/C and CHR stations (of CCM elk)... It was Bobby Jones and his group that almost blackmailed those strong CCM artists to remove their involvement in the Gospel Music Association... When I was at Way, we were as into adding BeBe, CeCe, and a whole group of multi-racial urban to our CHR format.. It has "poofed" from the new releases.. My only concern with CCM is that it is, NOW, a suburban white female format that is lacking teens and 18 to 25 year olds.. Alot of contempoary praise has taken the formats (not a bad thing), which does not seem as strong with occasional church goers who have lost touch with the local church (paradox).. I felt when we did Way in the original form (I was the first hire and worked with the group 8 years), we were 90% formatic equal to our mainstream counterpart.. Since, CHR on the secular side has become urban-hip/hop and the Christian counterpart has gone more White laced, Hot A/C..... Just an observation....

When Kirk was poppin' on charts everywhere, CCMs were picking him up and, for all intensive purposes, everyone else that sounded like him. Now that he is not in the main spotlight, neither is the music he promoted. It's really sad when you think about it. That one person can be a poster boy for an entire genre. I could get into a focused, theological debate about it, but suffice to say, it just smacks of hypocrisy.

The scene in Malcolm X discussing the color of Jesus in jail comes to mind right now. ;D

 

[War Of Attrition]

You would wonder why the largest christian broadcaster would not try to run any black gospel stations. Its seems to me they totally ignore black folk. I would think with all their resources that they could be successful in that arena.

A couple of thoughts. First, as myself and several other have mentioned before, Black Gospel is a very very difficult format to get good billings out of. In many markets, primarily southern, Black Gospel does very well in the ratings but as you probably know it takes more than great ratings to get great billings. The demographics are less than desirable.

Also, Salem's primary focus is on the top 25 markets. There are only a handful of large markets in this group where Black Gospel could be force, and in these places Radio-One already has an incumbent station in the format. I am speaking of DC, Atlanta, and Houston. Dallas is the glaring exception.

I think there is some evidence that Black Gospel on a Cedar Hill signal would perform well ratings wise. But if Salem blew up KLTY and put Black Gospel on 94.9, they would have a great struggle to bill even half of what CCM is currently doing. Which if I remember, is in the 18-19 m range.

 

[skippertthomas]

Good point War...Gospel to the urban and black audience is the No.#1 commercial station in Memphis (Arbitron)... But, I wonder how they'd rank in billing??.. "CC's" got it, but I wonder if they bill as much as the CHR down in the second teir (WHBQ-FM)?????

 

[salemjedi54]

You would wonder why the largest christian broadcaster would not try to run any black gospel stations. Its seems to me they totally ignore black folk. I would think with all their resources that they could be successful in that arena.

A couple of thoughts. First, as myself and several other have mentioned before, Black Gospel is a very very difficult format to get good billings out of. In many markets, primarily southern, Black Gospel does very well in the ratings but as you probably know it takes more than great ratings to get great billings. The demographics are less than desirable.

Also, Salem's primary focus is on the top 25 markets. There are only a handful of large markets in this group where Black Gospel could be force, and in these places Radio-One already has an incumbent station in the format. I am speaking of DC, Atlanta, and Houston. Dallas is the glaring exception.

I think there is some evidence that Black Gospel on a Cedar Hill signal would perform well ratings wise. But if Salem blew up KLTY and put Black Gospel on 94.9, they would have a great struggle to bill even half of what CCM is currently doing. Which if I remember, is in the 18-19 m range.

I would not blow up KLTY for black gospel...that's sucide. I am just wondering why they have never tried it.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I have tried to listen to KLTY and the music just does not move me. Only when a random Kirk Franklin or Mary, Mary comes up in the rotation. I'm not saying all black folk shun KLTY, but you not going to hear The Caravans, Pator Shirley Caesar, The Spiritual QC's, and The Willams Brothers on KLTY. You would wonder why the largest christian broadcaster would not try to run any black gospel stations. Its seems to me they totally ignore black folk. I would think with all their resources that they could be successful in that arena.

Funny - I'd make the same comments about the artists you mentioned! It would seem there is a racial divide in musical taste. With that said - HOW does KISS FM manage a number 2 every book, when it has this huge identity crisis: is it hip-hop, or is it top-40? I guess I'm assuming hip-hop is the secular equivalent of Southern gospel, and top-40 the secular equivalent of AC / Hot-AC. I don'y know if a hybrid black / white format would work on a Christian station or not. I'd probably suggest doing separate time slots - I know segregation is bad, but that's in real life. Radio has done it for years successfully. You get what you want, you know when to tune in, and vice versa.

Realistically - I think the demographics would be better in Houston for black gospel. Here again, we may be talking about two things. Southern gospel is NOT the same as black gospel. The artists are different, the sound is different, and crossovers are rare.

We all know 97.1 is going to end up talk, country, or remain Spanish. Clear Channel and the other conglomerates do not know how to do anything creative. The most creative thing at them are different signatures by paper pushing suits who are better lawyers than radio programmers. CCM, Hot-AC, black gospel, Southern gospel, CCM, Smooth Jazz, rock, indie rock: not a chance.

I do have one idea that just might work and make some REAL money. A REAL top-40 station without an identity crisis. I've tested streams on some kids of stations like KKOB, LA's KISS, and some others - stations with a little of the hip-hop that has crossed over, but mainly top-40 - the kids LOVE it. Except the black kids or white kids who like that whole gansta / hood image and pretend to be part of it. But those kids are are 104.5 or 97.9 most of the time anyway. Once I get them hooked on streaming, the internet in my house is tied up with streams going to 3 or 4 laptops while they do Myspace pages or whatever they do on computers these days.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

I believe they have at least one, an FM in Austin.

Clear Channel also used to have a CCM station in Nashville that was called "The One". They ended up blowing up the format and going with a CHR/Rhythmic after a year or so.

Has anyone else noticed that the selection of Christmas songs on 97.1 seem to be very spiritual? Especially compared to KVIL.

By the way Eric, "The Fish" is a Salem trademark.

Does anyone else find it amusing that Lowery Mays and his bunch of bandits used to own a Christian station anywhere in the past?

 

[War Of Attrition]

Does anyone else find it amusing that Lowery Mays and his bunch of bandits used to own a Christian station anywhere in the past?

What exactly are you trying to imply?

 

[VERITAS DE VOCE]

Does anyone else find it amusing that Lowery Mays and his bunch of bandits used to own a Christian station anywhere in the past?

What exactly are you trying to imply?

Quite possibly that the mighty CEO is a little sly of salvation brownie points. Just a guess. ;D

 

[anotherguyTN]

Just a quick comment about CC's former CCM station in Nashville: It was a CCM format when CC bought it. I'm surprised they didn't change the format as soon as they got their hands on it instead of waiting as long as they did.

As for the Hallelujah stations in cities like Memphis it won't surprise me to see some of them flip as soon as it doesn't make enough money to suit CC's management.

I don't trust CC or most other secular ownership groups to do anything with any kind of Christian format and stay with it. They may dabble in it in places, but when it doesn't make them enough money they'll drop it.

 

[War Of Attrition]

I don't trust CC or most other secular ownership groups to do anything with any kind of Christian format and stay with it. They may dabble in it in places, but when it doesn't make them enough money they'll drop it.

I am not entirely sure what you mean by "trust", but your summary is entirely accurate. Cumulus, Susquehanna (formerly), and Cox have all also experimented with CCMs and all but Spirit in Tulsa and The River in Austin have folded. These companies are not in it for the long haul,unless the long haul is paved in gold.

But how is Salem much different? They have shutdown CCMs that were not very profitable in markets like Chicago, San Francisco, and Jacksonville. I would be surprised if those are the last to be shut down and sold off.

The noncoms seem to be on much more stable footing and they do not have shareholders to answer to. Look at EMF who just bought a a Class C1 full-market commercial signal in Kansas City which is now K-Love.

You know EMF is itching to get into what is likely the largest Christian music market in the country.

 

[little1]

I do have one idea that just might work and make some REAL money. A REAL top-40 station without an identity crisis.

KISS is great in the ratings, but not in revenue. So I'm betting that somebody coming in to take a piece of their pie is going after a small piece...

 

[charles123]

You know KEGL can go to classic rock as 97.1 The Fox.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

You know EMF is itching to get into what is likely the largest Christian music market in the country.

I just don't see K-Love as being differentiated from KLTY. If someone wants a piece of the pie, they need to differentiate themselves somehow from the competition. Maybe Air-One, or a hot WAY-FM like the one in Denver. But not K-Love. That is West Texas translator fare --- for people too far from KLTY to pick them up.

 

[War Of Attrition]

I just don't see K-Love as being differentiated from KLTY. If someone wants a piece of the pie, they need to differentiate themselves somehow from the competition.

You don't think being commercial-free and playing 11-13 more minutes of music per hour counts?

Maybe Air-One, or a hot WAY-FM like the one in Denver.

Air1 and Way-FM are basically youth/young adult formats (especially Air1). They could not serve the debt on a station purchase in Dallas. Make no mistake: K-Love is the money maker here and is likely subsidizing Air1 in some places.

But not K-Love. That is West Texas translator fare --- for people too far from KLTY to pick them up.

Are we talking about the same thing? K-Love performs very well in virtually every market they are in. Have ever listened to one of their stations? It is a very good product. If they came to Dallas and did any promotion, KLTY would take a significant hit.