97.5 Moose FM Coming to Kemptville, ON

[spunker88]

I read this in NERW today and it makes me think the CRTC is caring less about interference as we run out of free frequencies. While Kemptville (south of Ottawa) may be outside of the 60dbu contour for WFRY Watertown, NY its still close enough to get a fair signal from the 97kw station. Then there is also a low power tourist station on 97.5 in Ottawa. If this station is still on air it would get interference from the potential 2.8kw (average ERP 1360 watts) station only around 25 miles away.

Does anybody actually manually check frequencies of new stations before they are approved. I think they will find that there will be a good amount of interference from WFRY once you go a bit south. And if that low power tourist station stays on 97.5 in Ottawa there will be interference in the city.

Also does the greater Ottawa area really need another adult contemporary signal. There is already 105.3 with Hot AC, 99.7 with AC, 100.3 with AC, and 98.5 with AC. 105.3 and 100.3 have 100kw signals from Camp Fortune that should cover Kemptville fine, and 99.7 broadcasts south of Ottawa so its signal is closer. With all of these AC signals already covering Kemptville will 97.5 Moose FM even have a chance? Why not create an oldies station on a different frequency that can target Ottawa's displaced listeners from the former Oldies 1310, since oldies FM stations licensed to Ottawa are still not allowed.

 

[Tincap]

Although I'm not a huge country fan, there are plenty of folks around here who are and 'Froggy 97' WFRY is a popular station around these parts. Co-channel interference caused by the new Kemptville station will not go down well.

As well, I believe there's another 'Moose' coming, this one being just down the 416 from Kemptville, in Prescott Ontario at 107.9 on the dial. This will kill the semi-regular visits from VPR, public radio which carries much more BBC programming than the more local NCPR. And for what? Two new stations, serving very small markets, simulcasting the exact same music, with the only difference being the commercials??? :

~BG

 

[spunker88]

The Kemptville area is probably already served decent country signals from Y101 in Smith's Falls and Q102.9 in Canton, NY. The 60dbu contour of WFRY ends at about Brockville, but with 97kw ERP I'm sure the signal is strong beyond that contour.

In my area I've witnessed the effects of two co-channel FMs being placed too close. We have WFRG, a 100kw signal from Utica, NY and CKWS an 8kw signal from Kingston, ON. While CKWS does stay out of the 60dbu contour of WFRG there is still this grey area where both signals are un-listenable in the car due to the interference from one another. You'd probably see the same thing with this 97.5 signal in Kemptville which would end up forcing people to keep listening to the stronger Ottawa Camp Fortune based signals even if they are physically closer to Kemptville.

 

[cd637299]

From what I am reading here, it looks as if the FM dial there is "UN-kempt-ville."

cd

 

[Tincap]

The Kemptville area is probably already served decent country signals from Y101 in Smith's Falls and Q102.9 in Canton, NY. The 60dbu contour of WFRY ends at about Brockville, but with 97kw ERP I'm sure the signal is strong beyond that contour.

In my area I've witnessed the effects of two co-channel FMs being placed too close. We have WFRG, a 100kw signal from Utica, NY and CKWS an 8kw signal from Kingston, ON. While CKWS does stay out of the 60dbu contour of WFRG there is still this grey area where both signals are un-listenable in the car due to the interference from one another. You'd probably see the same thing with this 97.5 signal in Kemptville which would end up forcing people to keep listening to the stronger Ottawa Camp Fortune based signals even if they are physically closer to Kemptville.

And there lies the problem, unfortunately. Although these stations are technically not digging into each others 60dbu contour, here in eastern Ontario/upstate NY, unlike major metropolitan regions, there are a lot of grey areas. Would the CRTC permit a station in Oshawa, to be on the same frequency as one from Hamilton, 70 miles away? Unlikely. Yet they permit a Kemptville station to operate on the same frequency as a much more powerful Watertown NY station, roughly 70 miles away? What a mess, for those of us, living between the two. :

~BG

 

[Yeziknoradio]

WFRY plays the best and most country period.
There is no other option.
To even say there is, is like saying that people don't need Pepsi or Coke when there's a store that sells RC Cola.

There's something special about Froggy that's very hard to find anywhere else.

 

[fybush]

Until about two decades ago, the FM band was empty enough along the border that Canada and the US could afford to provide mutual protection to each other's signals. Blame broadcasters on both sides of the border for changing that: they pressured both countries' regulators to change the rules and eliminate cross-border FM protection.

Kemptville 97.5 can't interfere with WFRY within WFRY's protected contours on US soil. The 102.1 down the road from me in Albion, WJCA, can't interfere with CFNY within CFNY's protected contours on Canadian soil. But outside their protected contours, or on foreign soil, all bets are now off. I remember driving out to the site of what's now WJCA just before the station went on the air and hearing CFNY like a local...but as a matter of international diplomacy, CFNY now has no right to a protected signal in Orleans County, New York, any more than WFRY does in Kingston or Brockville.

That's cold comfort to anyone who enjoys listening to cross-border radio (as I certainly do!), but it's important to note that it happened at the behest of the broadcasters themselves. They wanted more channels available to them, and the only real way to do it was to reduce the protection requirements.

("Ye canna," however, "change the laws of physics," as Star Trek taught us - so even though it was possible, legally, to squeeze signals onto the dial in southern Ontario on Buffalo channels and first-adjacents such as 92.9, 94.7, 99.5 and 106.7, the broadcasters who sought those channels have found it difficult to overcome the considerable amount of interference received from US signals. The same will be true when the new class A 92.1 signal in Amherst/Buffalo eventually signs on; there will be many parts of the market where it's wiped out by the co-channel CKPC-FM signal from Brantford.)

 

[mimo]

The tourist station at 97.5 is temporarily off air. Beleive it or not, I get WFRY in Ottawa. Even in the eastern suburb of Orleans, I've heard it very well there. Only a really go0d radio that can reject the bleedover of a nearby transmitter can hear it though. I can see the transmitter for 97.9 from my house. It makes a mess of half the dial along with the Jewel on the same transmitter. Still with my little Grundig, WFRY even is heard in stereo. What's going to end up happening in southern and eastern Ontario and New York along the border is that our FM dial will sound like Italy's. Where stations are spaced .1 mhz apart. It's a mess. Completely unlistenable. We'll either have to expand the FM dial down to 76 (or even 64 mhz) or start filling the AM dial up again. The only other option, is open up Longwave for broadcast. I'd love to see that. I already have a longwave radio.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

We'll either have to expand the FM dial down to 76 (or even 64 mhz) or start filling the AM dial up again. The only other option, is open up Longwave for broadcast. I'd love to see that. I already have a longwave radio.

Yeah, the effort to fill the AM dial again was tried in the 90's. It failed...

"Have you heard? Radio's future is DAB!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWbLlvWkwP8

 

[spunker88]

Well WFRY broadcasts 97kw from an 8 bay antenna on a large hill overlooking much of the area. With tropo, reception in Ottawa should be pretty easy. I get Ottawa stations all the time during tropo and they get strong at times. I'd hate to see somebody try to put a Watertown area signal on one of these channels.

And while not protected by the FCC or CRTC, cross border listening does happen and is quite common. I listen to Kingston signals quite a bit, Kingston has formats Watertown is missing and vise versa.

In a rural area listening outside of the service contour is a common thing. I know most larger cities could care less about anything outside the city, but there is a reason they put out 97kw of power and get the top ratings year after year. You'll hear listeners call in from the Ogdensburg, NY area which is roughly 25 miles from Kemptville and 55 miles from Watertown. This will be one of those grey areas that both signals will interfere in. It will be interesting to see if WFRY starts getting complaints about interference when this Kemptville signal signs on.

 

[Tincap]

WFRY plays the best and most country period.
There is no other option.
To even say there is, is like saying that people don't need Pepsi or Coke when there's a store that sells RC Cola.

There's something special about Froggy that's very hard to find anywhere else.

I don't know where you're located, Yez, but in my neck of the woods, streaming Froggy will become the only option. Unless you live in Ireland and your name is Paul Logan! ;D 8)

~BG

 

[Yeziknoradio]

So you're saying I will not be able to pick up Froggy 97 AT ALL on the train ride from Toronto to Ottawa?

 

[spunker88]

There is WNCQ 102.9 from Canton, NY that was bought by Stevens Media in 2008. They are the same company that owns Froggy 97. While the format is country, I'm surprised Stevens Media hasn't re-branded this station as Froggy and added some of the same stuff that makes Froggy 97 stand out. Watertown's Froggy was inspired by Utica where the Froggy format was put on a 100kw signal with great ratings. At one point both the Utica and Watertown Froggy stations were owned by a common owner. Now I'm glad that they aren't anymore because they put HD Radio on the Utica signal. If they ever put HD on the Watertown signal, I'd lose two good DX frequencies.

 

[Tincap]

So you're saying I will not be able to pick up Froggy 97 AT ALL on the train ride from Toronto to Ottawa?

You'll probably be good, until you head north from Brockville. Brockville is closer to Kemptville, than it is to Watertown (28mi vs 45mi ATCF), but Watertown will have the more powerful signal. And, as mentioned, currently Froggy can throw a clear signal to Ottawa. It'll be a mess.

~BG

 

[Lee_T]

You think there will be other available frequencies for Moose FM in Kemptville other than 97.5 MHz.

107.3 - nearest radio station WKVU 107.3 Utica, New York and CITE-FM Montreal, Quebec (215 km). May interfere with adjacent frequencies; CBCK-FM 107.5 FM Kingston, Ontario and CFTX-FM-1 107.5 Buckingham, Quebec with 107.1 unknown. May also interfere with CKQB-FM 106.9 FM Ottawa. NOTE: There is ONLY ONE radio station operating at 107.3 MHz in Ontario which is located in Tillsonburg.

I would suggest 107.3 MHz would of been an ideal frequency for Kemptville...not sure what type of interference this station may cause with other broadcasters and frequencies, etc.

Now we see now adays how crowded the FM dial is in Southern and Eastern Ontario! I think the FM dial is possibly going to have to see an expansion in the future. Pretty soon there will be virtually no room left for anymore radio stations on the FM dial, unless they find special technology to fit a radio station on a adjacent frequency (ie. 93.7 in Ottawa which is next to CKKL-FM 93.9 without causing any interference).

 

[spunker88]

107.3 would probably work well, there is the Montreal signal nearby, but the service contours for these stations shouldn't overlap. The Rock Detente format carried on Montreal's 107.3 is also on the Ottawa/Gatineu 94.9 so there shouldn't be any displaced listeners. 107.1 is kept empty to protect 106.9 The Bear in Ottawa. But 107.3 is a second adjacent and Kemptville is outside of Ottawa so it should be fine.

The FM dial is getting full in most large cities, new stations are struggling to find open channels, while AM is being vacated.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

The FM dial is getting full in most large cities, new stations are struggling to find open channels, while AM is being vacated.

Depending on the market, many markets in Canada have good reason to abandon AM now that FM can play oldies more freely in Most of Canada now.

 

[spunker88]

The FM dial is getting full in most large cities, new stations are struggling to find open channels, while AM is being vacated.

Depending on the market, many markets in Canada have good reason to abandon AM now that FM can play oldies more freely in Most of Canada now.

Ottawa's oldies 1310 left the air last year but there has been nobody to fill the void on FM. I'm not sure if oldies FM stations are allowed in Ottawa, but you could always license the station to Smiths Falls or Kemptville and rimshot the Ottawa market. Seems like a better choice than starting another AC station.

 

[Tincap]

The FM dial is getting full in most large cities, new stations are struggling to find open channels, while AM is being vacated.

Depending on the market, many markets in Canada have good reason to abandon AM now that FM can play oldies more freely in Most of Canada now.

Ottawa's oldies 1310 left the air last year but there has been nobody to fill the void on FM. I'm not sure if oldies FM stations are allowed in Ottawa, but you could always license the station to Smiths Falls or Kemptville and rimshot the Ottawa market. Seems like a better choice than starting another AC station.

Smiths Falls' CJET 92.3 (JACK FM) is not AC and has a far amount of 'oldies' in rotation 8). In fact when 1310 flipped, they tried to direct listeners to JACK. However, JACK's coverage of Ottawa is limited. And yes, we all need another AC station...like another hole in the head . Especially, when yet another 'Moose' is slated for Prescott, just 35 km down the 416 from Kemptville.

~BG