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97.7 Cross City CP granted

T

ThatGuyOnTheRadio

As discussed this time last year...

http://boards.radio-info.com/smf/index.php?topic=176065.0


The CP has been granted and is up for sale from Alex Media. The main shareholder being a gentlemen from NYC.

Just like I asked last year-- any thoughts on who might buy it? $325K (just for the CP) is awful expensive.


FM Construction Permit (CP)
Market Rank Mkt 201+
Asking Price $325,000.00
Selling or Leasing More Properties in Same Mkt? Stand Alone
Seller Financing Available? Will Seller Finance
Will Seller LMA? Yes
Ad Headline Florida -- Gainesville, 25 kW ERP 97.7 MHz FM for Sale
Description
New commercial FM Class C3 (25 kW) construction permit at Cross City, Florida with predicted service to Gainesville. The Longley-Rice 50 and 60 dBu service covers 359 thousand and 149 thousand pops, respectively.

All offers will be considered. Attractive terms available.

FCC FMQuery Link to Station:
http://transition.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?list=0&facid=189555
 
If it were me, I'd operate this station as local and regional Levy, Gilchrist and Dixie county radio station. It has potential as a small market station. However, unless the signal can be improved to the point it has at least a 60 dBu service contour over Gainesville, I'd forget any ideas of attempting to compete in the Gainesville market due to lack of a marketable signal in that area. Something is what it is, and WSKY is preventing 97.7 C3 from moving any closer to Gainesville. On the other hand Chiefland, Trenton, Newberry and Cross City have no local FM signals that are targeting Chiefland, Trenton, Newberry and Cross City other than WPLL. The only other alternative is for a Gainesville / Ocala operator to secure 97.7 as an extension much the same way WNDN is an extension of WNDD Ocala and WNDT Gainesville creating full TSA coverage among three stations in simulcast mode.
 
If it were me, I'd operate this station as local and regional Levy, Gilchrist and Dixie county radio station. It has potential as a small market station.
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree. This would be the same marginal signal over Gainesville that used to plague 100.5 when it was operating from the tower outside of High Springs. Would not be competitive in town. The Levy, Gilchrist and Dixie approach is a great idea. Would make a great FM to the AM simulcast stations in Chiefland and Cross City.
 
I liked the old WRRX-97X that used to be on 97.7 before it got moved to 97.3 and turned into WSKY. Maybe another Alternative station may be in the works someday? Marc Radio are you listening? I like all your other FM's...;D
 
ncfradio said:
This would be the same marginal signal over Gainesville that used to plague 100.5 when it was operating from the tower outside of High Springs. Would not be competitive in town.
Click to expand...

I have not compared, but I don't think it would be as good as the old 100.5 signal. It would have respectable coverage in parts of Alachua county, say around High Springs and Newberry, but other than mobile coverage of Gainesville proper, it is a lost cause due to the overpowering local strength of WSKY. I consider it quite misleading to market it a Gainesville area station, but then as PT Barnum is reported to have said: "There's a sucker born every minute". Caveat emptor.
 
According to the predicted 60 dBu service contour provided by the FCC, the signal, from Bell, will have a decent 60 dBu coverage over High Springs and Newberry as Kmagrill stated. It will not, however, cover Gainesville or even come close to Hog Town. At best, this new station can attract a little business from High Springs, a little more from Newberry, Trenton and Chiefland and it should do fine.
 
The big problem for this facility is WSKY which is going to capture most of the receivers in the urban areas. Even if the Cross City station can show a theoretical 60dBu over parts of Gainesville using a Longley-Rice model, it still won't be enough for clock radios with WSKY's presence.
 
When doing Longley-Rice modeling what should be the height of the receive antenna used in their calculations?? I saw in their narrative that the receive ant was 9.1 meters/approx 30 feet! Not your typical car radio antenna height!!
 
Nostalgia said:
When doing Longley-Rice modeling what should be the height of the receive antenna used in their calculations?? I saw in their narrative that the receive ant was 9.1 meters/approx 30 feet! Not your typical car radio antenna height!!
Click to expand...
Jeff, its the receive antenna that they had up 30' in the air, not their TX antenna (which is going to be on a cell tower I believe). Real world modeling would have the receive antenna height at 2 meters (approx 6') I would think. I was hoping Kyle or someone more familiar with Longley-Rice modeling would chime in.

Hey ThatGuy, I have my walkman taped to the top of a 30' pole ::) (and yes, we are wierd!)
 
Official FCC Calculations use an antenna height of 30 feet (9.1m) because the FCC assumed everyone had an outdoor antenna in the early days of FM radio. Since all the calculations were based on this idea, it was retained over the years as the standard. So, when you are talking about being in the 60dBu contour, it is understood that this is using a dipole at 30 feet. Obviously, the actual received signal at, say, 1.5meters is typically a lot lower, but we've all gotten used to knowing about what to expect from a receiver at ground level relative to the predicted signal using FCC methods. Thus, we know that a 50dBu signal is usually too weak to get on a clock radio by the bedside.
 
Thanks Kyle, learned something new today!

Good to know the owners of the 97.7 CP are not trying to snooker us with un-realistic signal strengths at 30', they are using government sanctioned un-realistic signal strengths. I dont even think you can buy a roof mount turnstyle FM antenna at the Shack anymore without special ordering it. I guess my common sense approach at the more realistic fender antenna level got lost in the zzzzzstaticzzzzzz.
 
Kmagrill said:
Official FCC Calculations use an antenna height of 30 feet (9.1m) because the FCC assumed everyone had an outdoor antenna in the early days of FM radio. Since all the calculations were based on this idea, it was retained over the years as the standard. So, when you are talking about being in the 60dBu contour, it is understood that this is using a dipole at 30 feet. Obviously, the actual received signal at, say, 1.5meters is typically a lot lower, but we've all gotten used to knowing about what to expect from a receiver at ground level relative to the predicted signal using FCC methods. Thus, we know that a 50dBu signal is usually too weak to get on a clock radio by the bedside.
Click to expand...

...and they have no intention of changing this I'm sure... so are the contour maps we see on the FCC website based on the 30 ft. receive antenna or just based on the height/power of the station?
 
If the maps are based on the FCC method, then they all use a receive antenna height of 9 meters. The height and power of the station affect how far out the predicted 1mV signal will be received (when using a dipole at 9 meters). The reality is that 1mV is an enormous received signal. That's 1000 microvolts. My car receiver (which isn't anything special) is full quieting at around 20uV in mono or 50uV in stereo. I've seen good receivers that are full quieting at 13uV in stereo and less than 2uV in mono. If you have 1mV at ground level, you own that area, signal-wise.


Predictions get a lot more interesting when Longley-Rice is used (such as the way the 97.7C3 is being advertised). Longley lets you predict the signal strength based on any receive antenna height you choose. The type of land (urban vs rural, for example), the confidence of the model (0 to 100%), and the elevation of the terrain all are factored in. So, when someone presents a Longley-Rice map, you have to know what those additional factors are that were used to predict that particular map before you can evaluate its validity. There are sort of default standards for this, but no rules. To use a model, you have but to demonstrate that it potentially produces more accurate results than the defaults. When used correctly, Longley-Rice produces results that are more accurate than the FCC's simplified prediction model.
 
The local Dixie, Levy, Gilchrist county idea that Mr. Tillery put out there sounds good but may not add up.

Total population 74,162
Area in square miles 2,173
Median household income approx. $33K
Persons below poverty level 15,800 (21.3%)

Considering the start up costs and the existing signals, is there enough advertising dollars in the area/population to provide local coverage and make any money? I may be looking at this in pretty simple terms, but if the money isn't there nothing will do very well. Sounds like the CP is way overpriced to me.

Any thoughts from the experts?
 
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