97 Rock REALLY steps in it

[tbolt909]

Cumulus may see this as an opportunity to re-define 97 Rock without destroying the foundation of the station. Then again... we may be witnessing the beginning of the station's demise... though I believe the station and format still have legs.

If the Morning Show incident had not gone national, nothing would have changed. If some advertisers had not pulled their business, Cumulus may not have fired anyone. Many of the 97 Rock listeners (based on Social Media) seem angry about the terminations. They are threatening not to listen anymore, but they'll be back for their "Free Bird" fix because they're not very bright. This crowd doesn't want 97 Rock to "Re-Define". They seem to want Black people to go away.

Maybe the foundation of the station is rotten.
Cumulus is more interested in the business model going forward. "Heritage" is meaningless...

 

[TheBigA]

So since any new show would be unfamiliar - why not go syndicated?

Because they don't have one. They have several that might work for classic rock. Bob & Tom out of Indianapolis is syndicated by Cumulus. That might work on GRF. But they don't really do anything nationally for alternative rock. I think Matt Pinfield is in their stable, but he's been going through rehab.

Cumulus may see this as an opportunity to re-define 97 Rock without destroying the foundation of the station. Then again... we may be witnessing the beginning of the station's demise... though I believe the station and format still have legs.

If you look around the country, there are hundreds of successful classic rock stations without a dominant morning show. The format itself is enough to carry the station. A big morning show usually helps with personal appearances and sponsorships. But they could simply continue doing what they're doing now, and the ratings would be pretty good, even with competition from WBUF.

 

[Radio-Bored-Op]

It would turn 103.3 into 107.7. You think that's a good idea?

I am going to take a healthy break from this past / thread. I thought I posted this... when in fact, I was actually talking to someone about this. . like 97's morning show, think there is nothing left here lol

 

[MarkW]

The Woody Show is iHeart. You won't see Cumulus willingly run iHeart syndication.

Not true. Cumulus runs that show as we speak on its 105.1 in Kansas City, where it was added in 2019, I believe. They also picked it up for KFOG in San Francisco, where it aired until that station's demise.

By no means am I suggesting it is a given that it will air in Buffalo; I'm merely suggesting it is a possibility.

I thought about Bob & Tom for GRF, but I think that would be a much bigger risk than going syndie in mornings at 103.3. Cumulus hasn't exactly been aggressive at adding Bob & Tom to stations it owns. On top of all of the above, one-half of the Bob & Tom show's namesake (Bob Kevoian) already retired from radio a number of years ago, while Tom Griswold is 68 years of age.

 

[TheBigA]

By no means am I suggesting it is a given that it will air in Buffalo; I'm merely suggesting it is a possibility.

I said "willingly." Sorta proves my point that they have no in-house syndication for alternative.

Cumulus hasn't exactly been aggressive at adding Bob & Tom to stations it owns.

They also haven't been "aggressive" about using in-house syndication for morning drive at its stations.

I go back to what I said that they'll either stay with what they're doing now, or transfer someone from another daypart, and do a more-music morning show to compete against Free Beer.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

If you look around the country, there are hundreds of successful classic rock stations without a dominant morning show. The format itself is enough to carry the station. A big morning show usually helps with personal appearances and sponsorships. But they could simply continue doing what they're doing now, and the ratings would be pretty good, even with competition from WBUF.

Disagree.

97 has had a 'big' morning show since the early 80s, including nationally known guys like JC Corcoran. WGR, the Edge and WYRK are where disgruntled "I'll never listen again" lsiteners will go because that's where they're already sharing time... and as everybody knows, the "I'll never listen again" mantra is empty BS. They do listen again. The WBUF morning show is not yet even close to presenting a threat, but 97 in its present form isn't helping itself against that possibility.

97 might be able to amble along 'as is' for another month or two, but eventually a toll will be taken. For this reason, it seems moving Shredd & Ragan ("S&R") to 96.9 would be the wisest and safest move for Cumulus. There's a downside to every consideration. So the decision makers at Cumulus and James Casey will have to weigh the upside of any move against the downside. The major downside being the comparison of any new morning show against the old, terminated morning show. In this case, moving S&R from 103 to 97 presents a minimal downside for 97... but what of 103? The Edge, more than 97, could get away with being music intensive in morning drive.

And what if S&R have some kind of contractual agreement that stipulates they can't be moved out of their time slot or off the 103.3 frequency without their approval?

Scrapping the present Alt/Active Rock format on 103 and taking it Country has a down side for which Cumulus doesn't have the manpower or money: having to promote and create a 'new' Country format on 103, while trying to sooth disgruntled advertisers who walked away from 97 and the entire Cumulus cluster, resulting in several hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of dollars of lost business. Reclaiming that revenue is a monumental task in its own right. Not sure if Mary Berner wants to blow up an entire radio station and roll the dice on Country up against a market legacy like WYRK.

So maybe, nothing changes on 103 ... except for Shredd & Ragan sliding over to 96.9, with 103 running a music intensive but low key personality morning show... maybe with Bentley (who came over from 107.7) hosting it with any one of the other 107.7 jocks who were launched last year.

The next two to four weeks will tell a lot.

 

[SirRoxalot]

the simple reason you knew what I was talking about with " picnic " even though FALSE, it supports you have at least heard it, or heard of it.... similar to any of the urban legends, you might know not true however are familiar with the background of the story.
fyi - I thank you for showing documentation that says that is false. I was unaware

re: Toast as an inappropriate slang,
personal testimony.

Op, I didn't know what you were talking about with "picnic" until I Googled it. I suggest you use that tool before you throw gasoline on a fire.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Sounds like you are the Answer Man. You defend your precious 97 Rock at all costs. Your logic has The Edge changing formats because the 97 Rock morning show made racist remarks. Brilliant.

Cumulus or Entercom (Audacy) could have launched a Country format years ago. Why haven't they by now? Cumulus could just as easily blow up 97 Rock and shift WHTT to Classic Rock. Just moving pieces around the same Chess Board...

Have you looked at a rating book lately? Preserving 97-Rock's numbers is what it's about. If you're forced into changes you look to strengthen your overall position, not weaken it. 97-Rock's legacy is stronger than the Edge. WHTT isn't involved in this dust-up, so why mess with that? Edge numbers fade after 10 AM. Alternative is a weak format. Consolidate your rock audience on the heritage station in the format and go after the biggest audience that won't hurt your existing audience.

BTW, you still haven't proposed anything. What's your ground-shaking idea?

 

[TheBigA]

And what if S&R have some kind of contractual agreement that stipulates they can't be moved out of their time slot or off the 103.3 frequency without their approval?

This is another very important subject worth discussing here. It's not unusual for heritage talent at any station to have clauses in their contracts (not unlike no-trade clauses in baseball) controlling where and how their show will be heard. This has to do with controlling their "brand." The older heritage talent becomes, the more concerned they become about their image. Some have trouble aging with their audience. We saw that in LA with Rick Dees. On the other hand Dick Biondi was able to remain on the air into his 80s by embracing his past and going with oldies on WJMK and then "classic hits" at WLS. I would bet S&R have such a clause in their contract.

 

[tbolt909]

97-Rock's legacy is stronger than the Edge. WHTT isn't involved in this dust-up, so why mess with that? Edge numbers fade after 10 AM. Alternative is a weak format.

The Edge wasn't involved in the 97 Rock debacle either, but you're suggesting changes there. 97 Rock has higher ratings overall, but did the 97 Rock morning show beat Shred & Ragan head to head? The loss of advertisers is more concerning anyway. Cumulus was not forced to terminate these people.

The "legacy" of 97 Rock is worthless. If the overall ratings collapse because of the recent changes, the legacy won't help. Cumulus has not announced any format changes in Buffalo. They just fired some delivery people. The Bottle of Coca-Cola they offer is the same...

 

[Radio-Bored-Op]

Op, I didn't know what you were talking about with "picnic" until I Googled it. I suggest you use that tool before you throw gasoline on a fire.

I'm finding the etymology says no.
Actions done to people say yes.

fyi:
Use Bing, get rewards

 

[davideduardo]

Many of the 97 Rock listeners (based on Social Media) seem angry about the terminations. They are threatening not to listen anymore, but they'll be back for their "Free Bird" fix because they're not very bright. This crowd doesn't want 97 Rock to "Re-Define". They seem to want Black people to go away.

There is no evidence of any of that.

First, there is no evidence at all that rock partisans are any different educationally or intellectually than any other mass appeal music format's listeners. There are dumb ones and smart ones and everything in between.

Second, there is no evidence that rock listeners are racially biased or bigoted any more than a subset of listeners to any other format might be. The fact that rock is not similar to the kinds of music most commonly enjoyed by Black persons is a cultural distinction, and does not indicate a racial prejudice. As an example, most Caribbean Hispanics don't like Mexican norteña and banda music, but that does not indicate a prejudice against Hispanics with indigenous heritage.

Why in the world would you make a near blanket accusation that rock listeners are dumb racists?

 

[tbolt909]

There is no evidence of any of that.

First, there is no evidence at all that rock partisans are any different educationally or intellectually than any other mass appeal music format's listeners. There are dumb ones and smart ones and everything in between.

Second, there is no evidence that rock listeners are racially biased or bigoted any more than a subset of listeners to any other format might be. The fact that rock is not similar to the kinds of music most commonly enjoyed by Black persons is a cultural distinction, and does not indicate a racial prejudice. As an example, most Caribbean Hispanics don't like Mexican norteña and banda music, but that does not indicate a prejudice against Hispanics with indigenous heritage.

Why in the world would you make a near blanket accusation that rock listeners are dumb racists?

I didn't accuse Rock listeners of anything. My comments are directed at the Facebook posts by "97 Rock listeners". You can read the same ones I've seen. The overwhelming sentiment is that they are pissed at Cumulus for "caving to cancel culture". They enjoyed the racist morning show sketch.

There's a big difference between music fans and Radio users. You are right that not everyone is the same...

 

[davideduardo]

I didn't accuse Rock listeners of anything. My comments are directed at the Facebook posts by "97 Rock listeners". You can read the same ones I've seen. The overwhelming sentiment is that they are pissed at Cumulus for "caving to cancel culture". They enjoyed the racist morning show sketch.

One thing is the specific racist bit on that show, and another thing accusing the listeners of being racist.

We have movements on the national scale wanting to eliminate monuments and memorials to our nations founders who lived when human slavery was still a nearly universal practice. I have witnessed, on the local scale, the dissing members of a neighborhood forum intended to be about lost pets and gardener recommendations and the like simply because a post was made by a registered Republican.

So "caving to cancel culture" is a valid subject to analyze and criticize when it invades the freedoms of others.

I don't see how liking a station, and a show which was previously not guilty of anything offensive, means a person is dumb or a misfit. I searched for social media references, and found that nobody defended the specific bit, but they did seem to feel that the sanctions went too far.

 

[tbolt909]

One thing is the specific racist bit on that show, and another thing accusing the listeners of being racist.
So "caving to cancel culture" is a valid subject to analyze and criticize when it invades the freedoms of others.

I don't see how liking a station, and a show which was previously not guilty of anything offensive, means a person is dumb or a misfit. I searched for social media references, and found that nobody defended the specific bit, but they did seem to feel that the sanctions went too far.

Go to Facebook. Type 97 Rock. You will find several links with stories about the recent terminations. The comment section is filled with people defending the sketch AND saying it was not racist.

Cumulus was not forced to fire their employees. They could have stood their ground and said "Free Speech". "Cancel Culture" is a myth. Freedom of Speech does not mean Freedom From Consequences. Some people cannot grasp that concept...

 

[TheBigA]

Cumulus was not forced to fire their employees. They could have stood their ground and said "Free Speech".

If you read any corporate employee handbook, it goes through things that lead to termination. This would qualify.

You have to understand that these companies have had this kind of thing happen before. We can all come up with examples. It comes with the territory. The result is pretty much the same. Every time it happens, every company in that industry calls together the lawyers and says "Don't let this happen to us." So this particular incident is just another example that goes in the file.

 

[SirRoxalot]

The Edge wasn't involved in the 97 Rock debacle either, but you're suggesting changes there. 97 Rock has higher ratings overall, but did the 97 Rock morning show beat Shred & Ragan head to head? The loss of advertisers is more concerning anyway. Cumulus was not forced to terminate these people.

The "legacy" of 97 Rock is worthless. If the overall ratings collapse because of the recent changes, the legacy won't help. Cumulus has not announced any format changes in Buffalo. They just fired some delivery people. The Bottle of Coca-Cola they offer is the same...

Like I said, read a rating book. So you don't like Classic Rock as currently formatted, yet 97-Rock is typically in the top 3 or 4 12+, and at or near the top with men. Their numbers are typically twice the Edge ratings. 97-Rock also brings in the most money in the cluster. The legacy is far from worthless. You still haven't proposed anything as a replacement.

 

[four4rock]

One thing is the specific racist bit on that show, and another thing accusing the listeners of being racist.

We have movements on the national scale wanting to eliminate monuments and memorials to our nations founders who lived when human slavery was still a nearly universal practice. I have witnessed, on the local scale, the dissing members of a neighborhood forum intended to be about lost pets and gardener recommendations and the like simply because a post was made by a registered Republican.

So "caving to cancel culture" is a valid subject to analyze and criticize when it invades the freedoms of others.

I don't see how liking a station, and a show which was previously not guilty of anything offensive, means a person is dumb or a misfit. I searched for social media references, and found that nobody defended the specific bit, but they did seem to feel that the sanctions went too far.

I agree with most everything said here. Each soul can choose to interpret the incident comments anyway they want. I think, however, that the station/owners did not react wisely. They chose to view the incident comments in a sealed box and act without consideration of anything outside the box. Worse, IMO, they exposed their overall organization to be of poor management, poor ethics, and poor values. Frankly, I've heard a fair number of folks literally chuckle and shake their head about how the incident was handled (disclaimer: none of whom are directly associated with any of the organizations). Publicly "announcing" (or even acknowledging) that so-n-so has been fired for involvement in the incident? Really? Absurd. Absolutely absurd.

 

[SirRoxalot]

I agree with most everything said here. Each soul can choose to interpret the incident comments anyway they want. I think, however, that the station/owners did not react wisely. They chose to view the incident comments in a sealed box and act without consideration of anything outside the box. Worse, IMO, they exposed their overall organization to be of poor management, poor ethics, and poor values. Frankly, I've heard a fair number of folks literally chuckle and shake their head about how the incident was handled (disclaimer: none of whom are directly associated with any of the organizations). Publicly "announcing" (or even acknowledging) that so-n-so has been fired for involvement in the incident? Really? Absurd. Absolutely absurd.

So what's your answer? Do you really think that they could address the issue with firing anybody? Let's hear your solution, Mr. Manager.

 

[four4rock]

So what's your answer? Do you really think that they could address the issue with firing anybody? Let's hear your solution, Mr. Manager.

Huh? My "solution" to what exactly? What question is it that you suggest I should "answer?"