98.5 FM playing classic hits. Translator or pirate?

[boombox4]

Much of what area, Bellevue? The KARR-AM signal is garbage. Jim is keeping it alive in the hope that someday radio values will make a triumphant return to being a sought-after resource. When it comes to that station and it's associated translator; a squadron of pigs will be seeing flying over Bellevue Square before that ever happens.

I can hear the FM translator all over the northern half of the South End. I haven't tuned it in when I've been in other parts of the metro. No FM in my car.

There are other translators in the area that do not come in in that part of town -- ones that are owned by bigger stations than KARR.

 

[bobdavcav]

I've been on a number of Access busses in the last year that have had the radio on 98.5 for some odd reason. In one case, the driver was listening to something else in his headphones while driving, but put the radio on when asked for it. The translator was clearly on top, but CIOC made it practically unlistenable to anyone who isn't a radio geek. This was coming from Kirkland through Kenmore and dropping me off at home.

 

[Kelly A]

I can hear the FM translator all over the northern half of the South End.

This quote says it all.

 

[Kelly A]

I've been on a number of Access busses in the last year that have had the radio on 98.5 for some odd reason. In one case, the driver was listening to something else in his headphones while driving, but put the radio on when asked for it. The translator was clearly on top, but CIOC made it practically unlistenable to anyone who isn't a radio geek. This was coming from Kirkland through Kenmore and dropping me off at home.

And that's the thing; Radio Geeks don't count. If your average listener can't punch up the station via their Dodge minivan radio, whether its in Mukilteo or Dreadful Way, it doesn't exist.

 

[boombox4]

This quote says it all.

What "all" does it say, exactly? That the translator reaches an area that has a large immigrant and minority population? In fact, it contains arguably most of that population in the Seattle area?

 

[boombox4]

And that's the thing; Radio Geeks don't count. If your average listener can't punch up the station via their Dodge minivan radio, whether its in Mukilteo or Dreadful Way, it doesn't exist.

Point taken, but what are the purpose of translators? They're all lower powered. Some have better coverage than others, obviously. Bonneville bought a translator for KTTH for a reason, and it's not audible in some places outside the Eastside. I'm sure they measured out the ROI for that one. Same with translators in other cities, which were intended to increase reception inside the downtown core that the AM can't reach. It seems that translators have some value, otherwise these larger radio companies wouldn't have bought them, or applied for them.

 

[b-turner]

For an AM radio station in a major city, perhaps 10% of the radio listeners will go to the AM dial. Let's say your AM covers 1,000,000 people in the coverage area. The translator reaches only 250,000 but 90% or more radio listeners tune to FM. If the FM translator is in the area where many of your potential listeners live, it is entirely possible to have more listeners to the 250 watt FM translator serving say, 25% of the metro, than you would have from the 1,000,000 the AM station reaches.

 

[Kelly A]

For an AM radio station in a major city, perhaps 10% of the radio listeners will go to the AM dial. Let's say your AM covers 1,000,000 people in the coverage area. The translator reaches only 250,000 but 90% or more radio listeners tune to FM. If the FM translator is in the area where many of your potential listeners live, it is entirely possible to have more listeners to the 250 watt FM translator serving say, 25% of the metro, than you would have from the 1,000,000 the AM station reaches.

What b-turner says is accurate. That, and broadcasters who have AM stations, are well aware of the decreasing audience from the AM dial. When the Commission offered FM translators as a way to potentially stem the losses as sort of a radio life-ring, naturally those same AM broadcasters took the opportunity. Where the potential for putting your programming on an FM translator helps an AM (at least in theory) is primarily at night. With the ever increasing terrestrial noise from aging utilities and noisy consumer products, perceived AM coverage at night has been cut in half.

I personally see translators to an AM station as more of a pair of water wings, rather than a life preserver.

 

[PaulWeller]

New Crap Format

98.5 FM as of this morning has been playing non-stop Fox Radio News along with gov't PSA's. No oldies this a.m.

Just an FYI.

So bummed to hear all the bullshit from Fox News now. Loved the music mix, and if the reason for the format change was for local sales, sorry, didn't hear anything but PSAs .

 

[b-turner]

Sales happen after the station has been in its format for at least a few weeks. It might be a month before the first commercial plays. Hopefully Fox needed a local affiliate and kicked in a bit of help.

 

[TheBigA]

Hopefully Fox needed a local affiliate and kicked in a bit of help.

This is what listeners don't understand. When a national talk network needs affiliate, the station might get some money from the network to run that programming. No record labels are paying radio stations to play 50 year old records. In fact the artists of those 50 year old songs often make nothing when those songs are played. So while it may be very entertaining to hear those songs again, nobody is making any money.

 

[PaulWeller]

This is what listeners don't understand. When a national talk network needs affiliate, the station might get some money from the network to run that programming. No record labels are paying radio stations to play 50 year old records. In fact the artists of those 50 year old songs often make nothing when those songs are played. So while it may be very entertaining to hear those songs again, nobody is making any money.

Station needs to make it's money from selling ads, relying on the network for affiliate compensation in this ADI makes no sense. Unless FOX has plans to boost the signal, the amount of compensation is nominal. Plus, there are two conservative talk stations already in the core market. Something else is going on here and I'm sure we'll know soon.

I'm not aware that there is a sales staff at the station (then again, they may have an agreement with Sinclair for local ad sales)

 

[b-turner]

But sales are not instant. It takes a while. Budgets are frequently planned months ahead. Relationships with potential clients have to be cultivated. Ratings can be a factor. You aren't showing up in the ratings the minute you flip formats. They might just now be hiring sales staff. When these things go down, it sometimes happens very quickly. The last station I worked we executed the change about 36 hours after the contract was signed. I recall that well. Over dinner at about 6:30 Tuesday evening the contract was signed. I got their engineer and mine working on it and they hit the airwaves Thursday at about 6:30. The first commercial ran about 4 to 6 weeks after the debut and it was a couple of months before they had a couple of other clients.

 

[TheBigA]

Station needs to make it's money from selling ads, relying on the network for affiliate compensation in this ADI makes no sense.

What if there's no money to be made with this format by selling ads? Why can't they ask listeners to donate money? A station in North Carolina has done that.

The easiest way to bring in revenue when there aren't metrics that allow for ad sales is brokered time. That's one option here. But it appears they've decided there's no money to be made with music.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

What if there's no money to be made with this format by selling ads? Why can't they ask listeners to donate money? A station in North Carolina has done that.

The easiest way to bring in revenue when there aren't metrics that allow for ad sales is brokered time. That's one option here. But it appears they've decided there's no money to be made with music.

This is all filler until they move to the permanent transmitter site

 

[PaulWeller]

No numbers no problem

This is all filler until they move to the permanent transmitter site

A good salesperson doesn't need ratings to sell. If that was the case, you'd would have NEVER seen local cable ads on any cable network, especially the smaller ones. If i was selling this, despite all the limitations of the signal, I'd march into any company buying local ads on Fox News Channel, KCIS or professing strong pro Trump view and mention that I'm the exclusive home of Fox News Radio.

Of course i despise all three, but could make a fortune selling this new format.

 

[boombox4]

A good salesperson doesn't need ratings to sell. If that was the case, you'd would have NEVER seen local cable ads on any cable network, especially the smaller ones. If i was selling this, despite all the limitations of the signal, I'd march into any company buying local ads on Fox News Channel, KCIS or professing strong pro Trump view and mention that I'm the exclusive home of Fox News Radio.

Of course i despise all three, but could make a fortune selling this new format.

Just curious as to how one could "make a fortune" of any kind selling an all Fox News Radio format in a predominantly liberal city where the conservative talk stations -- although they apparently survive -- seem to get low ratings overall?

 

[PaulWeller]

Just curious as to how one could "make a fortune" of any kind selling an all Fox News Radio format in a predominantly liberal city where the conservative talk stations -- although they apparently survive -- seem to get low ratings overall?

As i said before, a good salesperson doesn't need ratings to sell. This was incredibly true for all the years that the industry relied on the worthless diary measurement, but still true in the PPM world. Most local businesses care about RESULTS, not CPP.

 

[RF101]

The Yakima all-sports 1460 still dominates the suburban Seattle dial given the much lower-powered KARR signal. Yes, at times you'll even hear Spanish from KCKX in Stayton, Oregon (near Salem). You may also hear skywave signals from California coming in during transition hours.

 

[bobdavcav]

What's KARR doing these days? Last I heard them the format was as follows:
Westwood1 News, a couple PSAs, Fox hourly report, two Progressive spots probably barter, a couple more PSAs, then repeat. Sometimes there would be a weather report in there as well. Now that Westwood1 is gone and has been for several months, what's on this station? It's certainly a very odd way to run a station, particularly for months on end. At least the Classic Hits wasn't on a loop that repeated every 10 minutes, though I think they were using the last several hours of reports from Westwood1.