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98.5, midnight, Sunday-Monday
- Thread starter fybush
- Start date
Tom summed it up pretty well. Again, money in country. Not so much Alternative.
P
PhilGalasso
Guest
One thing I can't understand about this board: When WKMB dropped its country format some years ago following an ownership change, a lot of posts lamented the loss of a country station. Now that a New Jersey station has switched to country, why are there so many complaints?
That said, country is a hard format to sell in the Shore area. WJRZ failed because its sales people either could not sell country to advertisers or they didn't know how to sell the format. Nationally, country is one of the most popular formats and it reaches a lot of different age groups very well. But negative stereotypes of country music and country listeners seem to abound in New Jersey and New York City.
The original WJRZ (970 AM in Newark, not connected in any way with present-day WJRZ in Manahawkin) did very well with a country format. An ownership change, followed by a failed attempt to challenge WABC with a Top-40 format as WWDJ, happened around 1971...and the rest is history.
WPUR is getting GREAT numbers...but how are they billing?
That said, country is a hard format to sell in the Shore area. WJRZ failed because its sales people either could not sell country to advertisers or they didn't know how to sell the format. Nationally, country is one of the most popular formats and it reaches a lot of different age groups very well. But negative stereotypes of country music and country listeners seem to abound in New Jersey and New York City.
The original WJRZ (970 AM in Newark, not connected in any way with present-day WJRZ in Manahawkin) did very well with a country format. An ownership change, followed by a failed attempt to challenge WABC with a Top-40 format as WWDJ, happened around 1971...and the rest is history.
WPUR is getting GREAT numbers...but how are they billing?
Tom McNally said:
Good point, but one could make the argument that WPUR covers the whole market extremely well, while WJSE covers maybe half the market, tops. Well, perhaps that's not the most valid point, considering that WJSE does come in well in the areas that matter most, but I think WJSE would have at least a 3 or 4 share if they had the signal of WPUR. Then there's the fact that WPUR and 98.5 WKMK overlap each other in terms of signal a great deal - maybe "'Real' Jersey Kountry" covers a couple of towns to the north that Cat Country doesn't reach, but that's it. Does the market really need more of what it already has? Isn't there more potential in something different?
As I've said before, if there was no competition, a Country format would be a great idea. Personally, I think areas such as NYC going down to Monmouth County could really use a station with this format. But with WJRZ (a station with essentially the same signal as WKMK) failing rather quickly with the format and WPUR pulling ratings close to what WJRZ had as a Country station in this market, it will be a challenge for WKMK. The southern part of Monmouth County needs to support it, and WKMK will have to hope that its programming and local news/weather coverage will be enough to help it take listeners away from WPUR.
Essentially, WKMK is just another station for the ladies, who already have so much to choose from. Women are the more attractive demo to advertisers, but there's just so much competition for them. On the other hand, who targets men under 50 in Ocean County? WRAT? Their signal covers maybe half of Ocean, and that's being generous. WCHR, or perhaps WMGM in AC? Nah - much older-skewing than that. WHTG/WBBO? They might attract some, but no bones about it - Women are their top priority, hence the reason why they play so many of these pop/punk boy bands. That's why I think any station with a format that appeals to Men under 50 would have been a much better idea. I guess we just don't matter that much. At some point I'll just have to give in and go to satellite, I guess...
It all comes down to signal location. There's plenty of formats that Ocean doesn't have, but instead they opted for one that already comes in loud and clear. If your station covers all of Ocean County and just a little bit of Monmouth, then you should program the station accordingly. Trying to appeal to Monmouth when you barely reach them is as ridiculous as the time WRAT posted billboards in the Manahawkin area. There may be a lot of people in Tinton Falls, Eatontown, Asbury Park, etc. that would love a station like this - too bad they won't have the opportunity to hear it, though. However, I'm sure the simulcast-happy Press must have something up their sleeves to solve that problem...
All other things being equal, a class B1 has about an 8 mile radius advantage in coverage for RATINGS purposes (ability to penetrate into buildings, cheap radios, overcome computer noise, etc. -I'm not talking car radio coverage) over a 3 KW Class A. KMK is about 25 miles north of PUR. So KMK has roughly a 17 mile signal advantage over PUR to the north. That's much more than a couple of towns, and the towns that it has the ratings signal advantage are in heavily populated central Ocean, not relatively unpopulated southern Ocean.
In addition to that PUR has gotten significant Ocean-Monmouth numbers because people will struggle to receive a major format they can't get locally. But once that format is available locally, people will quickly move to their local easy to receive station that also caters to them.
So unless the format is done badly (and I highly doubt Press would), I would think that KMK should easily beat PUR's numbers.
> Then there's the fact that WPUR and 98.5 WKMK overlap each other in terms of signal a great deal - >maybe "'Real' Jersey Kountry" covers a couple of towns to the north that Cat Country doesn't reach, but >that's it. Does the market really need more of what it already has? Isn't there more potential in something >different?
In addition to that PUR has gotten significant Ocean-Monmouth numbers because people will struggle to receive a major format they can't get locally. But once that format is available locally, people will quickly move to their local easy to receive station that also caters to them.
So unless the format is done badly (and I highly doubt Press would), I would think that KMK should easily beat PUR's numbers.
> Then there's the fact that WPUR and 98.5 WKMK overlap each other in terms of signal a great deal - >maybe "'Real' Jersey Kountry" covers a couple of towns to the north that Cat Country doesn't reach, but >that's it. Does the market really need more of what it already has? Isn't there more potential in something >different?
MikeF said:
There it is.... it's not that people in part or even most of Ocean can get WPUR... it's that WPUR is NOT local and it's signal is NOT covering properly... 107.3 is an Atlantic City signal and the fact that it bleeds into Ocean and attracts people says that there is a need for that format... That does not mean that there is not a need for a rocker, but.... women will always get the owners attention.... and to the point of WJSE getting crappy ratings.... other than the signals that are clearly Cape May county (94.3, 106.7, 93.1, 102.3)... they have the worst signal I've ever heard.... not only does their coverage stink, but their processing is aweful..... do some engineering research and move the stick closer to A.C.... even if you have to give up a couple of watts... put it where the people are... and for Gods sake... get something to back up that Orban....
The difference is location. WKMB served an area that had no other country alternatives. Had a NY/Northern NJ station flipped to country, there would probably be fewer complaints. The open question about 98.5 is whether it's truly filling a need, or just duplicating something already available. Ultimately, the ratings and billing will answer that question.
At the time, WJRZ had to compete with Y-107 for the country audience (and ad dollars). WJRZ lost that competition, but it doesn't mean country music failed as a Shore format. Had there not been Y-107, WJRZ might have done quite well.
NJMark said:
I'm pretty sure there was less signal overlap with Y-107 and WJRZ than there is with WPUR and WKMK. Maybe the audience in Ocean County just wasn't stong enough to support a Country station. Yes, there has been substantial population growth in the area in the last few years, but will that be enough to make a difference?
Look around the Atlantic City/Cape May area, and you will see a lot of the places that appeal to Country music fans - a race track, cowboy bars, line dancing, hunting areas, farms, maybe the occasional strip club, etc. Maybe this is a stereotype, but Country fans do fit a certain profile and tend to flock to all of these things. Can most of these places be found in Ocean County? No, can't say I've seen any of them. So WKMK must hope that there are enough suburban Country fans to keep this station afloat, especially when they already have the well established WPUR to choose from as well. WPUR does more than "bleed" into Ocean, as one poster said - it comes in loud and clear through pretty much all of Ocean on my car radio, so I can imagine it comes in just as crystal clear at home as well. And look at all of the outside-the-market stations that continue to appear in Monmouth/Ocean's ratings books - despite having WOBM, WFPG and two Breeze stations loud and clear in much of the market, WLTW still manages to come out on top most of the time ... and that's just one example.
WKMK missed a couple of big potential promotional tie-ins, with the recent county fairs and Martina McBride & Leann Rimes at Toms RiverFest. If they're going to have any chance of succeeding with this format, they have to go live and local 24/7 and they need a good morning show. Just being completely automated playing only music with boring station IDs and tons of commercials (just like the other Press stations) is not going to work - they need to do more to stand out.
E
eatspaste
Guest
>> Look around the Atlantic City/Cape May area, and you will see a lot of the places that appeal to Country music fans - a race track, cowboy bars, line dancing, hunting areas, farms, maybe the occasional strip club, etc.
That is the stupidest line I've read here in the past 6 minutes. Where is the race track in the Atlantic City area? Are you talking about the horse track? The one that only has live racing 2 days a year?
Cowboy bars in South Jersey? Oh, thats right, I just had dinner at the Stone Harbor Honky Tonk and White Trash Pavilion. Damn, they have good burgers. I shot the cow myself in the parking lot.
Country music appeals to the occasional strip club? Alright I'll give you that one. The last time I was in a strip club, it was wall to wall F-150's in the parking lot, Martina McBride music blasting, then I went inside and it was filled with guys wearing cowboy hats and mousepad sized belt buckles walking around. Dress up like a cowboy and go to the one in Pleasantville and see for yourself.
Man, you nailed that one. I'd love to hear your explanation of a typical urban AC listener.
That is the stupidest line I've read here in the past 6 minutes. Where is the race track in the Atlantic City area? Are you talking about the horse track? The one that only has live racing 2 days a year?
Cowboy bars in South Jersey? Oh, thats right, I just had dinner at the Stone Harbor Honky Tonk and White Trash Pavilion. Damn, they have good burgers. I shot the cow myself in the parking lot.
Country music appeals to the occasional strip club? Alright I'll give you that one. The last time I was in a strip club, it was wall to wall F-150's in the parking lot, Martina McBride music blasting, then I went inside and it was filled with guys wearing cowboy hats and mousepad sized belt buckles walking around. Dress up like a cowboy and go to the one in Pleasantville and see for yourself.
Man, you nailed that one. I'd love to hear your explanation of a typical urban AC listener.
eatspaste said:
Well, Country music isn't made to strip to - it's a rather safe, rhythmically-challenged, unsexy style of music. However, I can imagine that much of the clientele listens to it - I've been in a few of those places, and let's just say that I've seen my share of country bumpkins.
And as far as the race track is concerned - what about Atlantic City Race Course? That's still open, right?
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Try getting WPUR in Manahawkin, it's crystal clear.
Try getting WPUR in Barnegat, it's crystal clear.
Try getting WPUR in Tuckerton, it's crystal clear.
This is not "DX" with a 40 foot antenna, but with any cheap radio you can think of.
Get out of your offices in Monmouth County and come down to Ocean County with you radio on!
WXTU isn't quite as strong, but you can drive the entire length of Rt. 539 with clear reception of WXTU and that's a LARGE part of Ocean County.
Try getting WPUR in Manahawkin, it's crystal clear.
Try getting WPUR in Barnegat, it's crystal clear.
Try getting WPUR in Tuckerton, it's crystal clear.
This is not "DX" with a 40 foot antenna, but with any cheap radio you can think of.
Get out of your offices in Monmouth County and come down to Ocean County with you radio on!
WXTU isn't quite as strong, but you can drive the entire length of Rt. 539 with clear reception of WXTU and that's a LARGE part of Ocean County.
JerseyShor said:
Press Communications has a comment hotline, listed on the webpage for the new Country station, http://www.k985radio.com . This is the way that the citizens of Ocean County can let their voices be heard. It may take a ratings book for it to happen, but maybe the time will come where Press will finally take notice and give Ocean County a format that it really needs, rather than targeting Monmouth when they only cover a fragment of it.
For an Ocean County station (that is what WKMK is, because it doesn't matter where the studio is or who they want to attract, that is where the transmitter is located), WKMK seems to concern itself much more with the area that it doesn't reach. It's just competing with another station that comes in loud and clear rather than filling one of the many format holes in this part of the market. This isn't The Ozarks or West Virginia or whatever, we don't need two Country stations that play the exact same artists and songs over and over again. I believe that Press made a mistake with this choice of format, but I guess they're going to find out the hard way.
JerseyShor said:
Now try getting it in Beachwood, Toms River, Seaside, Lavalette, Brick, Lakewood, Point Pleasant, or Mantoloking. Static cuts in and out, worse in the summer than the winter. The population in those areas is much denser as well, despite recent development in Southern Ocean County. I drive these areas, I try to listen, it's just not clear enough to be enjoyable.
JerseyShor said:
It's also the western edge of the county. Try driving the length of Route 9.
dkocw said:
Well, it comes in fine in my car in all of those areas. And I'm sure the people in these markets that really wanted to hear Country are tuned in. And what passes for Country these days can basically be heard on stations like WOBM and WFPG anyway. The Country format has gotten to the point where now it's all just Soft Rock with some banjos and fiddles in the background and vocals with an affected Southern accent. It doesn't matter whether we're talking about Rascal Flatts, Lonestar, Kenny Chesney, Keith Urban, Faith Hill, Carrie Underwood, and others too numerous to mention - they all fit the profile. Really, with all the sentimental ballads and lyrics that read like prose from a Hallmark card, it's hard to imagine any men listening to Country radio these days. At least play a little bit of "Outlaw Country" to break the monotony of all the fluff that permeates the airwaves.
Meanwhile, what do the fans of Active Rock have in Ocean County? A softer take on the format that comes in through thick static? A station that's really good but gets destroyed by a much stronger dance station on the same frequency in NYC? We've been shut out again. Everyone around here always forgets Ocean County, and male listeners in particular.
This format change is what it is. From a common sense business approach it makes all the sense in the world as Press has to protect G-Rock and The Breeze. AAA and HOT AC would take listeners from G-Rock, Smooth Jazz, Oldies, Nostalgia would hurt The Breeze. Doesn't leave many options does it? Country doesn't cross over into any of those formats, and is an entirely different listener. It's not going to lose as a format, and nobody else will take them on directly in the market, other than 1310 Shore Country, which has a weak signal. As for Cat Country 107.3 it's a great station and well programmed, but let's be honest, it's not a true local station. So it comes in loud and clear everywhere, including northern Burlington County, 98.5 does as well. In reality couldn't the very arguement people use for going against The Cat be used For the K? Ocean County and a tiny part of Monmouth is what is in play here, every other area is "gravy" as they say. My two cents worth of course, I'm not the radio pro though.
E
eatspaste
Guest
Men 18+ Atlantic City metro / Spring '06
1. WPUR
1. WZXL
3. WZBZ
4. WMGM
5. WFPG
Men 25-54 Atlantic City metro / Spring '06
1. WZXL
2. WPUR
3. WZBZ
4. WAYV
4. WMGM
Men 12-17 Atlantic City TSA / Spring '06
1. WZBZ
2. WPUR
2. WUSL
4. WKXW
5. WMMR
Why should they? Ain't broke!
eatspaste said:
The old "ball & chain" must be standing over them and making them listen ... haha.
WFPG, WPUR and WAYV are all pulling better ratings than WJSE with male listeners? That's just insane. I think there's a lot of people that just don't know about JSE. No advertising, weak signal, and a couple of other strikes against them, but good personalities and a fantastic selection of music. I'm incredibly envious, and was even more so when DOX was around. I wish the Rock stations here in Monmouth/Ocean were a bit more bold and brave with their song selections - it's a shame they feel the need to run the same old hits into the ground.
SoulCrusher said:
WJSE's signal is really bad... also the antenna is short (90 meters HAAT)... FM is a line of sight signal... for example... I'd bet that if WPUR went even higher (they are already one of the highest antennas there)... and lowered their wattage, they'd probably cover some of those fuzzy areas a little bit better... it is ALMOST 6 of one, half dozen of the other... but I think height is more important than power... so.. back to WJSE... they have no height and no power.... that tower can move a bit north, and I would suggest raising the tower it's on...
damian542 said:
I really think that this should be recommended to Access1. I'm wondering if they are bound by such strict parameters due to the frequency they are on (which they share with WNEW, the "dance station in NYC" that I referred to earlier). Since Access1 is a more experienced media outlet than previous owners Parinello Enterprises, I hope they will make this investment and give it some serious consideration as long as they are legally able to - it will benefit them greatly in the AC/Cape May market and should earn them some ratings and ad revenue in Monmouth/Ocean should they reach the southern part of the market. There is nothing like it in Ocean County - just bland excuses for Rock in Philly (which don't even come in on most walkmen and alarm clocks) and G Rock Radio, which is too safe and tame for some listeners.
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