2.6 is the ratings..... wxtb has been bad in ratings for awhile now... they really need todo something about it. How about a classicmetal/NewMetal show for 3 hrs??? like JRR... Every Sat night? How about a daily top 10 countdown like the old days? And a weekly top 20?? Sure the music director has to play what his bosses at Corp tell him..but also do some show segments of what people want to hear. The ratings are bad..the current 90s music they been playing with the new stuff hasnt worked since the 90s and it was cause of the noon hour "perfect hair" that kept 98rock up (somewhat) in the ratings.
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98 Rock Suxs
- Thread starter scottsvb5
- Start date
He has to play what the labels push out and corp tells him. Do you see a rock station playing new Lillian Axe? Queensryche,Sebastion bach, In Flames, Fosterchild,Whitesnake,Dreamtheater,Dragonforce,DeathAngel,Primalfear,Testament..etc etc etc... Alot of good hardrock/metal out there thats getting no airplay instead of hearing 1979 by the smashinggeeks.
The crappy ratings can be summed up with one word:
MORNINGS.
The station was recovering very nicely -- I believe up to a 3.5 - 4.0 share in Ages 12+ for the week -- when they made the decision to terminate Cowhead.
Immediately thereafter, the ratings sank back down into the mid / upper 2's. Guess what? Those are the same (crappy) ratings the station had after Bubba was fired and before Cowhead was hired.
Would've been interesting to see what would've happened had 98Rock kept Cowhead on board.
Now, 102-5 The Bone is wiping the floor clean with 98Rock. I bet the February extraps show enormous ratings. It'll be interesting to see how badly 98Rock's billing has been damaged after the year is over.
MORNINGS.
The station was recovering very nicely -- I believe up to a 3.5 - 4.0 share in Ages 12+ for the week -- when they made the decision to terminate Cowhead.
Immediately thereafter, the ratings sank back down into the mid / upper 2's. Guess what? Those are the same (crappy) ratings the station had after Bubba was fired and before Cowhead was hired.
Would've been interesting to see what would've happened had 98Rock kept Cowhead on board.
Now, 102-5 The Bone is wiping the floor clean with 98Rock. I bet the February extraps show enormous ratings. It'll be interesting to see how badly 98Rock's billing has been damaged after the year is over.
R
Remaster
Guest
You'll only see better #'s in markets where active is the only rock in town. I'm sure AAF in Boston would love a 12+ number like that
Febs #s are out with that latest report... we will see how March goes....but still #s on most rock stations througout the country are under 3.5 unless they have a great morning show..and Corp now has peeps doing afternoon shows everywhere. They are doing MTVs style of slowly moving away from music during the day and leaving it to night-time. Maybe if they change their rock formats it will help the ratings.
Ok 98Rock do a format change and Rock Out!
....LOUD ROCK
RANK ARTIST SONG
1 ..Five Finger Death Punch .."The Bleeding"
2 ..Disturbed .."Inside The Fire"
3 ..In Flames .."The Mirror's Truth"
4 ..Motley Crue .."Saints of Los Angeles" (NEW)
5 ..Airbourne .."Runnin' Wild" ..
6 ..Death Angel .."Killing Season"
7 ..Testament .."More Than Meets the Eye"
8 ..Avenged Sevenfold .."Afterlife"
9 ..Sebastian Bach .."By Your Side"
10 ..Puddle Of Mud .."Psycho"
11 ..Dokken .."Standing On The Outside"
12 ..Fosterchild .."Independence Day" ..
13 ..Bullet For My Valentine .."Scream Aim Fire"
14 ..Three Days Grace .."Never Too Late"
15 ..Sixx A.M. .."Accidents Can Happen"
OK Time for me to be a Music Director and bring them ratings up
.
....LOUD ROCK
RANK ARTIST SONG
1 ..Five Finger Death Punch .."The Bleeding"
2 ..Disturbed .."Inside The Fire"
3 ..In Flames .."The Mirror's Truth"
4 ..Motley Crue .."Saints of Los Angeles" (NEW)
5 ..Airbourne .."Runnin' Wild" ..
6 ..Death Angel .."Killing Season"
7 ..Testament .."More Than Meets the Eye"
8 ..Avenged Sevenfold .."Afterlife"
9 ..Sebastian Bach .."By Your Side"
10 ..Puddle Of Mud .."Psycho"
11 ..Dokken .."Standing On The Outside"
12 ..Fosterchild .."Independence Day" ..
13 ..Bullet For My Valentine .."Scream Aim Fire"
14 ..Three Days Grace .."Never Too Late"
15 ..Sixx A.M. .."Accidents Can Happen"
OK Time for me to be a Music Director and bring them ratings up
.
With that change your suggesting in music direction, you just brought 98Rock down to a .5 overall and cut sales revenue in half. Seriously, I hear what you're saying and I respect your passion for that music.... but playing those songs 24 hours a day just doesn't make business sense for a large market FM. ...And the bottom line is making money. Safe formats, tight playlists, and recognizable songs SELL advertising. Ratings are only part of the picture.
Sounds to me like you should pick up an XM or Sirius. I can name at least 3 channels on Sirius that play the songs you're suggesting. Do yourself a favor and invest $13 a month on a subscription.
Sounds to me like you should pick up an XM or Sirius. I can name at least 3 channels on Sirius that play the songs you're suggesting. Do yourself a favor and invest $13 a month on a subscription.
Righhttt!! that was NEW music and what sells is New Music.. There is more out there like Atreyu, Breakin Benj, but that was just a 15 song example..and 98Rock already plays 1/2 them songs. I would get rid of most 90s grunge...its been over played for many years and fill in Hairbands and some Seattle.JRRs ratings went from a 2.9-3.7 and they are saying it was primarily from the New "Hard on Sat Nights" alot of young kids calling in also never hearing alot of that music.
INFlames album debut on Billboards at #28 # 7 in Canada #2 in Europe
Motley Crue will sell big $$$$$$
Airbourne had the #1 song in some markets and is the #1 rock band in Australia
Sebastian Bachs song is a catchy very good ballad that would sell if airplay was given
Puddle of Mud is the #1 most played song in most markets
Disturbed is a rising #1 and always sells
Five Finger Death Punch is selling like crazy now and is already a top 10 song
I can go on and on. If you like 90s grunge... fine... but its time for the young kids to let their hair grow out and Rock cause that is what they are doing and thats whats selling. Its time for Corp and Music Directors to stop giving excuses on what should be played and their fears.. cause they might of been geeks in highschool and not liked the Metal...but that music is what brought in Billions in sales from records-merchandise-concerts-..etc... People wanted a change back in 92-93... and it was a decent change...but that faded by 98 and Rock has been in the dumps since then...Corp and music Directors are only playing mid 90s mixed with todays cause of what was big back then...but it wasnt that it was big..it was different from the 80s music. Now the kids are rocking out again.
BTW what would you do to improve on the 2.6 ratings? A new morning drive? That will help some, but Music is what brings in people also.
INFlames album debut on Billboards at #28 # 7 in Canada #2 in Europe
Motley Crue will sell big $$$$$$
Airbourne had the #1 song in some markets and is the #1 rock band in Australia
Sebastian Bachs song is a catchy very good ballad that would sell if airplay was given
Puddle of Mud is the #1 most played song in most markets
Disturbed is a rising #1 and always sells
Five Finger Death Punch is selling like crazy now and is already a top 10 song
I can go on and on. If you like 90s grunge... fine... but its time for the young kids to let their hair grow out and Rock cause that is what they are doing and thats whats selling. Its time for Corp and Music Directors to stop giving excuses on what should be played and their fears.. cause they might of been geeks in highschool and not liked the Metal...but that music is what brought in Billions in sales from records-merchandise-concerts-..etc... People wanted a change back in 92-93... and it was a decent change...but that faded by 98 and Rock has been in the dumps since then...Corp and music Directors are only playing mid 90s mixed with todays cause of what was big back then...but it wasnt that it was big..it was different from the 80s music. Now the kids are rocking out again.
BTW what would you do to improve on the 2.6 ratings? A new morning drive? That will help some, but Music is what brings in people also.
Haha right.... I never got into the "mullet" word..or "dirt rocker" but whatever... and btw for bill saying the stations that play recognizable songs is what they want to sell Adv....your right..but thats what kills ratings... people are tired of hearing the same songs over and over again. Thats why classic rock stations do just as bad unless they have a great morning drive or now new afternoon drives. People do alot of changing stations when they hear the same stuff nonstop.
Now Im not saying play middle of a album song that wasnt released like alot of these internet music station play... I say play the radio type hard rock songs from the past and play the New stuff also. People want NEW music and they want to hear Past songs they dont hear all the time on the radio..but WAS played on the radio.
Now Im not saying play middle of a album song that wasnt released like alot of these internet music station play... I say play the radio type hard rock songs from the past and play the New stuff also. People want NEW music and they want to hear Past songs they dont hear all the time on the radio..but WAS played on the radio.
Sorry guy... you're wrong on this one. Research (something all the big companies and markets use) says otherwise. Now don't get me wrong, I think the research is flawed. I'm personally a fan of classic alternative and feel the same pain you do on the FM dial. But when it comes to ratings and revenue, the latter always wins. If 98Rock can "sell" what they are presently programming, then the ratings don't mean jack... and you won't see much change. BUT... if they start seeing a big loss in revenue and that money is going over to Cox (102 and 97) then that's when the axe will begin to fall on Gandy.
As far music bringing in additional listeners, it depends on the format. The trend in rock radio seems to be that stations with good personalities and solid talent are the "ratings" winners. 102.5 spun the tired automated rock for years before ever making a dent in the ratings. Now with 2 solidly anchored shifts that station is gonna see a big increase in ratings and revenue. On the other side of the coin at Cox, The Point (even though they did add some announcers lately) is still one of the most boring stations to listen too. Talent brings ratings, not simply playing new music as you might believe.
As far as what I would do with 97.9? If you keep it rock, attack 97.1 big time (Power Pig style). I mean, you've got the better signal and can easily knock em down by simply playing the same music... and a LOT of it. Lose the morning show or at least send BS to afternoons as a simulcast with WJRR. And if the suits are reading this... LEX & TERRY is not the answer like they've done with WJRR. Bubba will bury them before they even hit the air in Tampa Bay. Playing the most music in the morning would be a great alternative to 97.1 and 102.5. If you change formats, flip it urban AC... but do it carefully as not to damage 95.7 The Beat. WFLZ becomes your mainstream CHR, The Beat is your younger skewing urban, while 97.9 becomes something like Star 94.5 in central Florida. Cox maintains pulls that off nicely in Orlando with Power 95.3 and Star 94.5 in the same building.
As far music bringing in additional listeners, it depends on the format. The trend in rock radio seems to be that stations with good personalities and solid talent are the "ratings" winners. 102.5 spun the tired automated rock for years before ever making a dent in the ratings. Now with 2 solidly anchored shifts that station is gonna see a big increase in ratings and revenue. On the other side of the coin at Cox, The Point (even though they did add some announcers lately) is still one of the most boring stations to listen too. Talent brings ratings, not simply playing new music as you might believe.
As far as what I would do with 97.9? If you keep it rock, attack 97.1 big time (Power Pig style). I mean, you've got the better signal and can easily knock em down by simply playing the same music... and a LOT of it. Lose the morning show or at least send BS to afternoons as a simulcast with WJRR. And if the suits are reading this... LEX & TERRY is not the answer like they've done with WJRR. Bubba will bury them before they even hit the air in Tampa Bay. Playing the most music in the morning would be a great alternative to 97.1 and 102.5. If you change formats, flip it urban AC... but do it carefully as not to damage 95.7 The Beat. WFLZ becomes your mainstream CHR, The Beat is your younger skewing urban, while 97.9 becomes something like Star 94.5 in central Florida. Cox maintains pulls that off nicely in Orlando with Power 95.3 and Star 94.5 in the same building.
Agreed on the music, but then there's the other part of the equation - personality. It's been over a year since Cowhead's departure and they've sunk back down without any hope in sight. How long will it take until they (mgmt) realize they need a change? Do they refuse to see there is a problem or simply do not choose to acknowledge it? The revenue cannot be as good as it once was. I'd love to know what is now and compare to even a year ago.
Being the "heritage rocker" for the past 30 years (which no one bothered to celebrate... I know there was the Z-98 and Classic Rock 97.9 period, but the avg listener wouldn't know that) isn't enough to put them over as the best. They need to execute a talent search, bring back The Fiasco (anyone know the story on that?), or do something. Bringing Lex and Terry back is NOT the answer. Better yet, they simply need to "clean house" over there on Gandy and get back to the basics.
Being the "heritage rocker" for the past 30 years (which no one bothered to celebrate... I know there was the Z-98 and Classic Rock 97.9 period, but the avg listener wouldn't know that) isn't enough to put them over as the best. They need to execute a talent search, bring back The Fiasco (anyone know the story on that?), or do something. Bringing Lex and Terry back is NOT the answer. Better yet, they simply need to "clean house" over there on Gandy and get back to the basics.
I think our commercial FM's insult the average person's intelligence. It's a joke. These stations have become parodies of themselves. You know, like when 97X, The Bone, and 98 Rock, all play the same song within 10 or 15 minutes of each other. My personal favorite is when the Bone & XTB play STP's Creep at the same exact time. You can switch back and forth between presets and make a cool echo effect, good stuff.
With top 40 being the exception, people who think "tight playlists sell" are RETARDED. I get a chuckle out of Scott's playlists that he posts, but despite his humorous enthusiasm... he's right! 98 Rock is cutting their own throat right now. The Bone has morning and afternoon drive locked up, Cow & Bubba sound great... but the music sucks. 98 Rock needs to diversify their playlist and focus more on mainstream metal with album cuts and classics thrown in for texture. Right now, they're trying to copy the Bone's playlist... don't they remember what killed Q-105? You should never try to emulate your competitor, you might as well admit defeat.
I mentioned that XTB should lean more metal to someone very intelligent recently, and they suggested that it might be too much of a "niche format". But I don't think so... its 2008, I know soccer moms that listen to Pantera, hell they grew up with it. When the Bone is playing tired old garbage like G&R's Paradise City and Zepp's Stairway to Heaven... there's no reason why 98 should venture anywhere near that territory.
Speaking of Stairway to Heaven, aren't they aware of how UNCOOL it is to play that song on the radio anymore??? Didn't anybody see Wayne's World? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HSJGj0HUn8
Cedric
With top 40 being the exception, people who think "tight playlists sell" are RETARDED. I get a chuckle out of Scott's playlists that he posts, but despite his humorous enthusiasm... he's right! 98 Rock is cutting their own throat right now. The Bone has morning and afternoon drive locked up, Cow & Bubba sound great... but the music sucks. 98 Rock needs to diversify their playlist and focus more on mainstream metal with album cuts and classics thrown in for texture. Right now, they're trying to copy the Bone's playlist... don't they remember what killed Q-105? You should never try to emulate your competitor, you might as well admit defeat.
I mentioned that XTB should lean more metal to someone very intelligent recently, and they suggested that it might be too much of a "niche format". But I don't think so... its 2008, I know soccer moms that listen to Pantera, hell they grew up with it. When the Bone is playing tired old garbage like G&R's Paradise City and Zepp's Stairway to Heaven... there's no reason why 98 should venture anywhere near that territory.
Speaking of Stairway to Heaven, aren't they aware of how UNCOOL it is to play that song on the radio anymore??? Didn't anybody see Wayne's World? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HSJGj0HUn8
Cedric
V
vadar
Guest
I have but one question: Who is the moron that changed the logo to this gay silver swoosh thing? What the hell was wrong with the classic blcok letters and numbers in black and flourescent orange?
R
Remaster
Guest
As a rocker, I agree with Scott's playlist and some ideas. Even as a "radio" dude, am I so jaded to say they wouldn't work? What if testing shows "got the time", "souls of black", and even "good day to die" (exodus) should be in an FM format? Serious, what if radio...is....just.... wrong.
Metal (songs stated above) was fringe at best. I understand that. All my 25-35 demo friends grew up with that though.....question being...why doesn't it work? I would s^*&*$ if I heard good heavy rock circa '87-95' on the radio. That's me......yet I have seen some weird songs come back well in tests ( IN DIFFERENT FORMATS mind you) where fringe works without a burn
good topic
Metal (songs stated above) was fringe at best. I understand that. All my 25-35 demo friends grew up with that though.....question being...why doesn't it work? I would s^*&*$ if I heard good heavy rock circa '87-95' on the radio. That's me......yet I have seen some weird songs come back well in tests ( IN DIFFERENT FORMATS mind you) where fringe works without a burn
good topic
These guys made a good point... and they are right. Bill you are right also,but your ideasare wrong on music. First off you can beat someone else with music than a morning show. Look at 98rock back in the day when they played alot of metal..they beat out RON and RON...but at first they beat them outside the morning drive..then they beat them a short time later. You dont attack 97X with what is being played now... it wont win... you beat it at its own game.. NEW MUSIC...and New Music + more New songs per hour and Classic Metal that ISNT PLAYED that much on the radio. There is almost no station that does this. I know WMMS in cleveland mixes alot of hair and metal with todays but they do a "All Rock" format and not enough NEW MUSIC.102.5 has bubba and hes great..and so is Cowhead..but the music sucks there cause its played nonstop every hour the same bands. They are peaking out now and by summer they will slowly fall back to around 3-3.5 but still be ahead of what they were back last fall. They wont fall more until 98Rock does something to bring in more listeners.
You also put a few of the 80s Metal New Music in the rotation..not all..no..but a few for a few weeks...see what happens... Alot of people in their 30s and 40s would love to tune back to a Pure Rock station to hear New Motley Crue("The Saints of Los Angeles"), ACDC (coming soon),Whitesnake(New song "Best Years")Sebastian Bach(By Your Side") and really even new Dokken song is good and Testaments isnt bad at all. Also more Metal like INFlames,Avenged Sevenfold,Six A.M.,Aytreu,Bullet for my Valentime and more are Rockin the Charts right now..and 98 only is playing a few.
Most of the time you put (Around) 12 songs per hour in. 8 songs should be New Music..after all you tune into a Pure Rock station to hear New Music and a certain New Song thats out right???? Now the other 4 songs you play 1 seattle or big 90s grunge ,, 1 from a couple years back ( maybe old Disturbed, Godsmack, Staind...etc) and 2 from the mid 80s-early 90s classic metal like Skid Row,Pantera,Megadeth,Ironmaiden,Poison,Slaughter....etc... They all sold millions!! Now that is what I feel will help a Rock station get ratings into the 4-5 range.... Also you do need a great morning show...cause thats whats in and has been in.
The reasoning is this..as a music director you have to go outside of the box..if your ratings are bad.. you get a bigger audience...98Rock has the listener of 14-34...you make it 14-44..... you have the 14-21 year olds that are bringing out the new metal bands....now you bring in the 34-44 age group that wants to hear the New Metal from the 80s bands... Increase your fan base!
You also put a few of the 80s Metal New Music in the rotation..not all..no..but a few for a few weeks...see what happens... Alot of people in their 30s and 40s would love to tune back to a Pure Rock station to hear New Motley Crue("The Saints of Los Angeles"), ACDC (coming soon),Whitesnake(New song "Best Years")Sebastian Bach(By Your Side") and really even new Dokken song is good and Testaments isnt bad at all. Also more Metal like INFlames,Avenged Sevenfold,Six A.M.,Aytreu,Bullet for my Valentime and more are Rockin the Charts right now..and 98 only is playing a few.
Most of the time you put (Around) 12 songs per hour in. 8 songs should be New Music..after all you tune into a Pure Rock station to hear New Music and a certain New Song thats out right???? Now the other 4 songs you play 1 seattle or big 90s grunge ,, 1 from a couple years back ( maybe old Disturbed, Godsmack, Staind...etc) and 2 from the mid 80s-early 90s classic metal like Skid Row,Pantera,Megadeth,Ironmaiden,Poison,Slaughter....etc... They all sold millions!! Now that is what I feel will help a Rock station get ratings into the 4-5 range.... Also you do need a great morning show...cause thats whats in and has been in.
The reasoning is this..as a music director you have to go outside of the box..if your ratings are bad.. you get a bigger audience...98Rock has the listener of 14-34...you make it 14-44..... you have the 14-21 year olds that are bringing out the new metal bands....now you bring in the 34-44 age group that wants to hear the New Metal from the 80s bands... Increase your fan base!
C
Cowhead
Guest
Stairway to Heaven = SCHWING !!!
-CH
-CH
scottsvb5 said:
As a sidebar: after leaving behind my radio career in Tampa, I went to Australia and have been working on-the-air for eight years now. By law, 30-percent of all music content has to be Australian or New Zealand-based...I've NEVER heard any station here play anything from Airbourne, including my station. Maybe the national youth broadcaster Triple J would play their stuff but Triple J has similar ratings, to some rockers in the U.S. (lower tier ratings hovering around a 2-share). Just curious...where did you get your info about this group being so popular Down Under?
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