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A couple of questions about Fox TV

B

BMR

Fox is the newest by far of the big networks. Hope you don't mind me asking a couple of questions I couldn't find the answers to on Google or Wikipedia.

Are there any markets Fox still doesn't cover?

When did Fox first overtake one of the 'big three'? (I know it took top spot in 2007-2008, but when did it first come third or better?)
 
BMR said:
Fox is the newest by far of the big networks. Hope you don't mind me asking a couple of questions I couldn't find the answers to on Google or Wikipedia.

Are there any markets Fox still doesn't cover?

When did Fox first overtake one of the 'big three'? (I know it took top spot in 2007-2008, but when did it first come third or better?)
Click to expand...

I think the turning point was in 2006 when they finally took down the FoxNet feed and the last few stations jumped on the network with subchannel affiliations just to get it on as far as they could. Pretty much the last few without are Glendive, MT (which gets Denver on the satellite and cable), St. Joseph, MO (one of those oddball markets where Kansas City gives them most of their channels but they have their own ABC station), Lafayette, IN (again, they're served by Indianapolis and South Bend), and Zanesville, OH (Fox from Columbus and Pittsburgh gets piped in there). So in some way, the few markets without actual affiliates still get service somehow through cable, though if you're in the middle of the Rockies, you're out of luck.

The first year you could say they jumped into the top three has to be 2001-02, when they finally got out of their "World's Worst Whatevers" rut and got "American Idol", but it all depends because for many years they've been first in 18-49. If it's households, it's a different story.
 
It seemed for a time that every escaped fugitive seemed to know the answer to this, since they
would apparently head for areas where America's Most Wanted was not being widely watched.
 
The first turning point was when they managed to get the NFL rights away from CBS. It was the first time people started looking at FOX as a viable competitor. That was 1994 I believe.

Also at that same time, several mid to large market VHFs left the big 3 and picked up FOX due to some ownership changes.
 
w00t said:
The first turning point was when they managed to get the NFL rights away from CBS. It was the first time people started looking at FOX as a viable competitor. That was 1994 I believe.

Also at that same time, several mid to large market VHFs left the big 3 and picked up FOX due to some ownership changes.
Click to expand...

The New World deal and others were huge for Fox in mostly increasing the prestige of the network. New World also had a really good station portfolio that happened to match Fox's goals of the days, and it included many NFC football cities (Phoenix, Dallas, and others). They moved Fox off more obscure UHF stations and right into Big Three viewers' faces.

I'd agree, there WAS a second turning point in 2000-01 with American Idol.
 
It's definitely the NFL/New World deal one-two punch.

Here, that deal moved Fox from WOIO/19 to WJW/8, which had been the dominant station in the market as the CBS affiliate. There were some lean times at what would become "Fox 8 News", but the station rallied strong and has high rated newscasts again.

There are similar stories in other big former-Storer markets, like Detroit (WJBK/2).

Are there any markets with the original Big Three and NO Fox OTA presence anymore? Not counting the single station markets like Zanesville and Glendive.

Youngstown got an LPTV Fox combo ("Fox 17/62") run by the CBS affiliate. Today, the 62 part of that is digital LPTVer WYFX-LP 19 (in HD), and the feed on WKBN/27.2 is now SD. It was a dual HD setup until 19 lit up.
 
There is a book titled Outfoxed by Alex Ben Block, which details the founding and the
early years of the Fox network. Very interesting reading. It is out of print but you may
be able to find it at your local library.
 
Wasn't another turning point was when the news division became the propaganda division in 2000. The early Fox News was more of the HLN type operation back in the late 1990's. And also when Rupert Murdoch had full control of Fox. Look I remember when Fox looked like the CW back from its 1980's birth to 1994.
 
Another smaller turning point for Fox having nationwide coverage was the advent of subchannel availability with digital TV. Small markets like Sherman/Denison/Ada had no separate Fox station (except in case of a flip of some kind) if there weren't enough stations for each net to have its own affiliate (that market has had only 2 main stations historically). After DTV came along, KXII/12 was able to add Fox on their 12.3 subchannel.
 
FreddyE1977 said:
There is a book titled Outfoxed by Alex Ben Block, which details the founding and the
early years of the Fox network. Very interesting reading. It is out of print but you may
be able to find it at your local library.
Click to expand...

See also Daniel Kimmel's The Fourth Network.
 
I think a lot of people also forget Fox make a lot a moves to bring attention to their network Sure some of the early stuff failed like Joan Rivers but nabbing an awards ceremony the Emmys to air on the network in 1990/1991 brought a lot of attention to it. Shows like The Simpsons, 90210, Melrose Place, Married with Children, X-Files etc. brought in a loads of hype. Fox was new network, and with nothing to lose it went for fresh ideas. The 1994 acquisition of New World and nabbing the rights to NFC games were basically Fox at its height after seven years of spectacular growth. The challenge after that was sustainability which has been quite successful with American Idol and other shows such as 24, House etc.
 
You also have to remember FOX came very close to bankruptcy in the early 90s. Mellon Bank called in its loans but Murdoch basically got out of it by reminding Mellon it had everything to lose by calling them in and forcing FOX into bankruptcy. Mellon did extend the loans and FOX later found other financing and a year or so later got the NFL and the rest is history.
 
There is one market in Arkansas (Jonesboro AR) where there is no local FOX station (standalone or digital subchannel), FOX comes via Memphis on cable or other markets on DirecTV, and Dish. Also Greenville/Greenwood MS was one of the last markets to use the old Fox Net on cable, as WABG established a Fox digital subchannel.

Fox did lose some OTA coverage in North Central Arkansas recently when KSFX (now KOZL) Springfield MO dropped Fox after its parent company Nexstar had a falling out with Fox. Fox had to settle with KRBK a rimshot station in the NE part of the market.
 
Mark said:
You also have to remember FOX came very close to bankruptcy in the early 90s. Mellon Bank called in its loans but Murdoch basically got out of it by reminding Mellon it had everything to lose by calling them in and forcing FOX into bankruptcy. Mellon did extend the loans and FOX later found other financing and a year or so later got the NFL and the rest is history.
Click to expand...

A similar scenario was outlined in Outfoxed, where Murdoch attended an affiliates meeting and found the troops
in full-scale rebellion over The Wilton-North Report. It was only the argument of one affiliate GM that "if Fox
fails and we all go back to being independents, where does that leave us?", (and Murdoch's decision to immediately
cancel Wilton-North in their presence by looking at Barry Diller and making a slashing motion across his throat!)
that saved them.
 
genius said:
The 1994 acquisition of New World and nabbing the rights to NFC games were basically Fox at its height after seven years of spectacular growth.
Click to expand...

But you underestimate the impact of that.

Particularly the New World deal, which landed Fox on prime VHF real estate in a whole bunch of large markets. Add to that the NFL deal, which put those games on a lot of newly upgraded signals, and...definitely the tipping point for Fox.
 
OhioMediaWatch said:
Particularly the New World deal, which landed Fox on prime VHF real estate in a whole bunch of large markets. Add to that the NFL deal, which put those games on a lot of newly upgraded signals, and...definitely the tipping point for Fox.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of that great Married With Children scene where Al Bundy instructs his family to
"Assume Fox Viewing Positions!" and they all break out the coat hangers and the tinfoil.
 
FreddyE1977 said:
OhioMediaWatch said:
Particularly the New World deal, which landed Fox on prime VHF real estate in a whole bunch of large markets. Add to that the NFL deal, which put those games on a lot of newly upgraded signals, and...definitely the tipping point for Fox.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of that great Married With Children scene where Al Bundy instructs his family to
"Assume Fox Viewing Positions!" and they all break out the coat hangers and the tinfoil.
Click to expand...

PMSL :D
 
FreddyE1977 said:
Reminds me of that great Married With Children scene where Al Bundy instructs his family to
"Assume Fox Viewing Positions!" and they all break out the coat hangers and the tinfoil.
Click to expand...

Oddly enough, many viewers have to assume the "Fox Viewing Positions" in 2011 for the puny digital signal of the former Fox affiliate here, WOIO/19 (now CBS).

Fortunately, I'm in an area served by their digital fill-in translator in the south-central part of the market...
 
FreddyE1977 said:
OhioMediaWatch said:
Particularly the New World deal, which landed Fox on prime VHF real estate in a whole bunch of large markets. Add to that the NFL deal, which put those games on a lot of newly upgraded signals, and...definitely the tipping point for Fox.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of that great Married With Children scene where Al Bundy instructs his family to
"Assume Fox Viewing Positions!" and they all break out the coat hangers and the tinfoil.
Click to expand...

I always kind of wonder if the management of WFLD ever took offense to that running gag, especially since MWC was set in Chicago.
 
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