A Different Spin on Pat's Classic Kenny G Rant

[AC Tones]

I know this is old news, but every once in awhile I revisit Pat Metheny's unforgettable rant about Kenny G several years ago and try to put his comments into a broader context of where this genre was and where it perhaps needs to go. (and because there just doesn't seem to be much to talk about these days ) Some interesting parallels can be drawn to radio and mass media as a whole and why so many choose to tune out these days rather than tune in.

For the record, I revere neither PM nor Kenny G's "music" (and my playlist reflects this). A lot of Pat's stuff is a little weird for my taste, and almost all of Kenny's stuff way too Pop-ish. I am not in the position to offer criticism as to who is the better "musician," because I am not a musician myself. I only know what music is pleasing to my ears. At the risk of being gutted by diehard PM fans, I personally think we may be better off hearing less of both. Let me try to explain where I am coming from.

Whether you are a musician or a fan, most I think would agree that no two artists can be more diametrically opposed to each other on the spectrum of contemporary instrumental music than Pat Metheny and Kenny G. It's The Originator vs. The Imitator, each artist's expression (through their music) further polarizing their base to be ever more disdainful of the other's. Does it sound a little bit like politics in our country (and the media outlets that cover it)? I don't know about you guys, but the more divisive rhetoric I hear from opposing political parties and media personalities who espouse their views, the more it makes me not want to tune in at all. The analogy I wish to draw to radio (specifically this genre) is this: While it is indisputable we are worse off today because commerical radio chose the "smooth jazz" road of Kenny G and a Pop-A/C crossover sound, I don't think we would have been any better off catering exclusively to hardcore Pat Metheny fans and a synthesizer, New Age-heavy sound at the opposite end of the musical spectrum. Rather, I think this genre would have had more longevity on radio with a balance of contemporary instrumental music (jazz versus pop elemets) appealing to listeners who represented the "silent" majority of moderates who embraced underplayed artists whose music is consistently melodic yet diverse in tempo, e.g. Dancing Fantasy, Thom Rotella, and Brian Hughes, but have a similar appreciation for the radio-friendly sound of hugely popular artists like Peter White, Richard Elliot, and Brian Culbertson.

As I write, I am listening to John Jarvis' "Best Of Both Worlds," which for my ears is one of the most pleasing sounding NAC cuts I have ever heard. IMO, nothing Pat Metheny has done sounds like it, and nothing Kenny G has done sounds like it, and I think that is where commercial radio dropped the ball. Perhaps if we had paid more attention and given more airplay to the artists whose sound is representative of the "moderates" of the contemporary instrumental music spectrum, who knows where we would be today?

I have developed a great friendship with one of my listeners, and we have this conversation all the time about "vibe." We have our "favorite" artists, but at the end of the day, it is all about the "vibe." Even artists whose music we are not particularly fond of or loyal to will crank out a song or two that sounds so great we have to hear it over and over again.

OOPS, almost forgot to post the link to PM's rant, now that I am done with mine...LOL

Chris

http://www.jazzoasis.com/methenyonkennyg.htm

 

[Bill Harmonic]

Hey Chris...

A ton of great thought here but for my purpose and from my viewpoint, I'll simplify it a bit more. Both these artists have their place in the contemporary instrumental format. By the way, I'm trying not to call it smooth jazz anymore. I firmly believe that "label" is not helping anyone and it's time to move on from that moniker. Both these artists have things that can be played and should be played, especially if put in the correct context, and surrounded by other songs that complement the entire set. Both have things that shouldn't be touched with a ten foot pole. Your reference to the extreme political parties was spot on. For my show, I will continue to cherry pick the best of everything that fits what I'm trying to achieve. That's the way the format use to be and will have to be again if we want to see success anytime in the future. I don't think there's anything wrong with picking the correct tracks (for what you are doing) from either of these two and they both have songs worthy of airtime. What happened was that the format leaned so far to the Kenny G side that everything else was researched out and then everyone got Soooooooo tired of just hearing Kenny and those safe and harmless songs that drove away our P1 listeners who are the heart and soul of this music. You are correct in that we need to get back to the middle where there is more diversity in sound and choice of artists. It's always great to have a little "sweet" in our diet but like food, everything in this format should be served up in moderation. I'm in the business of building "audio stories" that can be enjoyed by both those who support the far left and the far right. If it means that I take one from column "Pat" or one from column "Kenny" then so be it. A goal I now have is to put them both in the same set and make it work. Let's not get so caught up on labels and hipness. Your audience will tell you what they think is hip and cool. I consider this the fight of my life in making my show successful. I do not go where the path may lead but I will go where there is no path and leave a trail. I 'm hoping everyone who's trying out their chops (You, Nock, Cat, etc.) will use the best available songs to choose from and I believe you do. I learned long time ago that I can make a very hip radio station/show that a lot of people will dig and I will also be out of business in a very short period of time. I also don't want to make the commerical "sellout" that a lot of stations/shows have become. I call what I'm trying to do "Commerically Eclectic" (Oxymoron like Jumbo Shrimp and Military Intelligence) but I need to be able to reach all sides of the equation and to do that I need as many choices as I can. It's now up to me to put those choices together correctly.

 

[AC Tones]

Can't agree with you more, Bill. Both artists music certainly has a place in this format. In fact, some of Pat's cuts represent some of my all time contemporary instrumental favorites, to include "Chris," "Here To Stay," "Minuano," "Last Train Home," and "Spring Ain't Here." And trust me, I have a small handful of what I term "guilty pleasure" Kenny G cuts as well ;-) (namely "Champagne," "End Of The Night," "Eastside Jam," and the Ripps' classic "She Likes To Watch.") Interestingly, when examining my statistical relays, I don't seem to lose listeners on any of them, so maybe I picked the right ones to meld with my overall programming strategy.

As for ditching the "smooth jazz" monicker, it is taking me longer than I would have hoped. If I were to rid the "Smooth Jazz" from my Loudcity station name, it would completely change the URL of my "Tune In" link, and it might make me a little harder for my listeners to find me. Now that I have wavjazz.net up and running (with a dedicated Listen Now link), I guess it would not be as problematic as it once was. But I COMPLETELY agree. The monicker had so many negative connotations to begin with, and now that giants like WNUA, KOAI, and KKSF have fallen (TWC as well), plenty of the usual naysayers are piling on saying, "See, we told you guys about that Smooth Jazz garbage. It's nothing but elevator music."

Keep up the great work, Bill. With the continued coooperation and combined efforts of the small passionate group of broadcasters and fans on this board, I do believe the future is in OUR hands. It's just going to take a little while.

Chris

 

[spiritof67]

Chris and Bill, I agree with both of you. And I'm one of those die-hard Pat Metheny fans.

There are several Metheny songs that really don't fit in commercial radio (the title track from "Offramp" for example), but a number of them do. But considering the way radio treats songs these days (overplaying of 'tested well' music), I wouldn't want these songs played so often that I get sick of hearing them.

St. Louis had a SJ-formatted station in 1994--the short lived KNJZ. It was heavily consulted (probably BA). I knew someone who worked for the station, and he said the station had 15 Kenny G cuts and 9 Sade cuts in their rotation. The lone Pat Metheny cut that they played was "Chris." Most of the music played was extremely watered down. Thankfully we had a college NAC that played a more diverse selection of music during that time.

I would have preferred this format to have favored musicians on the caliber of Metheny rather than the simplistic melodies Kenny G brought us. The musicianship was just so much better in my opinion when Windham Hill was at the top of their game (Michael Hedges, Scott Cossu, Liz Story, Tuck and Patti, etc.) as well as the MCA Master Series (John Jarvis, Greenidge/Utley, Billy Joe Walker). GRP, A&M, and Warner Bros. had a large stable of artists that sounded great too. These larger labels allowed the musicians of smaller labels to flourish as well.

The early years of the format offered a spectrum of different styles that fit under one tent. Sometime after 1993, most of that went away on commercial radio (at least here). And let's not forget that major labels like GRP and Windham Hill were sold or spun off, leaving many of those musicians without a record deal.

 

[AC Tones]

Hey spirit. I always enjoy your take on things. Tremendous points you made about the labels from the good old days and some of the vastly underplayed artists like John Jarvis and Billy Joe Walker, Jr. And it's criminal that any contemporary jazz station would have only one Pat Metheny cut in their rotation. Sure, he's not my favorite artist, and I have admitted to that here and elsewhere. But his overall body of work (and talent), as well as his influence on this genre is not in dispute.

I do think the Internet offers some promise, unless of course $$$$ becomes the sole driving force and begins corrupting the product all over again. That's what I like about being totally not-for-profit. I can play what I want, and answer to no one (other than my own heart and the guys who listen to me regularly). But sooner or later, if I ever want to take this little hobby of mine to the next level, I am going to have to temper my maverick, "outsider" approach to radio somewhat, but only to the point that it stops driving away those who may be in the position to help me take that step.

Chris

 

[spiritof67]

Do not forget that long before Metheny's rant on Kenny G was the criticism Wynton Marsalis had against contemporary jazz artists in the early 1980's. I was a fan of contemporary jazz and got really sick and tired of hearing people talking about what was and was not jazz. Most of the artists that followed the jazz orthodoxy of Marsalis to my ears sounded as fresh as music recorded in 1953, which considering it was 1985, didn't appeal to me. These artists sounded soulless. This musical territory was covered by better artists at the time. Jazz is supposed to be an evolving musical form. Fusion may have been sounded great for its time, and it may sound dated today. But the concept of improvisation should be constantly evolving, using instruments and the culture to keep it relevant.

 

[Bill Harmonic]

For me, there's only two kinds of music. "Good" and "bad". My "good" may be different than yours and your "bad" is probably different than mine. I play what I like knowing that it has to have a commerical aspect to it along with a melody and hook. My audience comes to trust my selections and choices knowing that I will always program a "commerically eclectic" mix that can't be found anywhere else and that's always worked for me whether it's my present show or when I have run a station(s). Listeners only care about the value of making their life better with the listening experience you give them to do that with. If you entertain and enguage your audience, they will give you their interest. Respect their intelligence and they will give you their attention. Remember that "clever" intrigues, "bland" repels and "clutter" kills. It's all music. How it's put together and the responsibility you take in putting it together is what's important. I firmly believe that you can take a lot of songs (out of the "norm" whatever that is) and play them (there are exceptions), provided that the tune before it and the cut after it does their job in the "set up" and "follow through". The challenge is build each entertainment experience I create tune by tune so I have a three hour audio story that's "one of a kind" and I just do that with music. It's a bit of rocket science, experience, heart, soul and common sense.

 

[elchupacabras]

I concur that there is room in the format for both. I have purchased recordings by both artists, although I will admit hands down I am a Metheny junkie. Kenny G's music is pleasing to the untrained ear, but if you realize analyze the elemental matrices of Metheny's style, there is a HUGE difference.

I still can't get over how he bastardized a Louis Armstrong piece with a solo that a high school soprano sax player could have easily thrown in over the top. However, the latest album with some Latin standards was a considerable step-up.

Metheny's ability to weave world rhythms and pull together ensembles with the likes of Gary Burton, Pedro Aznar, and Antonio Sanchez is par excellence. I saw Sanchez at a jazz fest last December and man, the cat can play! The complexities in improvisation, style and performance is not even comparable.

But then again, we are talking radio, not performance. It is conceivable that someone likes both Lady Gaga and The Beatles. The prior, devoid of any meaningful talent, but still an interesting listen. As we say in Spanish, "gustos son gustos," or "there are tastes and THERE ARE TASTES!"

 

[planetbass]

The challenge is build each entertainment experience I create tune by tune so I have a three hour audio story that's "one of a kind" and I just do that with music. It's a bit of rocket science, experience, heart, soul and common sense.

Bill, this is a great way to describe how I'm trying to do programming on my fledgling internet station. I try not to be purist about anything, to provide a mix of funk, soul and contemporary/smooth jazz and to allow myself the indulgence of letting that mix reflect my mood at the time I put it together. My listeners' tastes seem to be on the funky side (which suits me fine) but I'll still slip in the odd classic 50's jazz tune to remind myself - and possibly some listeners - where some of the music we love has its roots.

I've re-read the Pat Metheny diatribe today and on reflection I find Kenny G's arrogance (if that's what it was) in producing a Louis Armstrong tribute (if that's what it was) is matched by Pat Metheny's arrogance in presuming to speak for all Louis Armstrong fans, jazz fans and historians. To go as far as claiming that Gorelick was defiling the memory of jazz greats gone before is extrapolating rather too much. It's a pity that, having made no attempt to hear Metheny's music in recent years, my abiding impression of him is THE RANT, just as he has pretty much ensured that many people will view the defilement of music pioneers as Gorelick's legacy.

I'm all for free speech, but you have to hesitate a second before delivering a broadside like his...

 

[AC Tones]

Well said, planetbass. Welcome to the board, BTW. I have much respect for Bill and the other educated and experienced posters on this particular thread. I am glad the topic has generated so much discussion. I remember THE RANT, but I forgot truly how personal it really was, and I kind of felt the same way you do about it. My first impression was, why even waste your breath? Artists weren't going to change their private opinions about Kenny G, and neither were Kenny G followers (who at the time, represented a majority of "Smooth Jazz" listeners). There was no way that one very respected and talented musician alone was going to turn the tide of a genre that had already decided to move "full speed" ahead in the direction of Soft A/C, especially with his less than diplomatic approach. In many ways, it has taken the near apocalyptic collapse of Smooth Jazz on terrestrial radio for everyone to realize THE TIME IS NOW for a fresh start, and more originality.

And what I like about the broadcasters who frequently post on this board (you, Bill, myself, Nock, darksoldier, Another Cat, etc.) is that the one common denominator amongst all of us is PASSION. We come from different places, and have different backgrounds and tastes, so it is natural for us to have slightly different approaches as to where this genre needs to go. Mine is sort of throwback approach in that I am trying to recapture the NAC vibe of old (late 1980s-early 1990s) by playing great NAC cuts alongside of more contemporary instrumental music (Chill), sprinkling in some New Age and Vocals along the way. But I am not so arrogant to think my approach is the only way to go. At the end of the day, the listeners need ALL of us and what we each can bring to the table as far as a musical offering. Sometimes I wish we all could just take over BA's satellite-fed programming one entire day each week (your show, Bill's show, Nock's show, my Timerider program, Ted Hasiuk's show, and et al) and see what kind of feedback they would get from listeners. I suspect the diversity would be a welcomed departure and it would be overwhelmingly positive.

Chris

 

[1316wwood]

I always enjoy the story of when David Foster asked Kenny G to play the birthday party of a well known popular artist. Kenny declined because he was afraid of the ridicule he would receive from his counterparts. Kenny has sold a ton of records/cds. Many artists are jealous. Kenny is a true talent but because of the direction he takes his music he is not respected amongst many of his peers. Take the time to listen to an interview Kenny did with a podcast called The Strip. It is a Las Vegas based podcast and was probably done around the time he was performing with the David Foster and Friends gathering or perhaps some solo gigs in LV. After listening, you may understand a little more where Metheny and others are coming from.

I have the utmost respect for Metheny btw and really admired how he did not want to edit his music for SJ radio. But when he did, it took off. i.e. We Live Here.