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A Final Plea to CBS-FM: Fix Your Audio!

L

LenoxAve

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, I swear that the audio quality has slipped even further. I understand their desire to be not too in your face because of office listening, but this is insane. No other radio station has audio quality this muddy and soft. Even WLTW has more dynamic range.

They are constantly adding and removing reverb to the mics, too. I don't understand how tweaking can continue for so long and not result in anything definitively better.
 
Pretty embarrassing given that it is the flagship of the CBS radio empire. I think the most amazing thing is the ratings are so good. People don't seem to care.
 
The audio aint the only thing that needs fixing, the repetition of some songs is just grating. Knock On Wood and Sweet Home Alabama to name a few. Was around the Jersey Shore recently and listening to WJRZ and NJ 101.5 was an eye opener to just how pathetic CBSFM sounds lately, audio and music wise, CBS sounds STALE.
 
islanddxer said:
The audio aint the only thing that needs fixing, the repetition of some songs is just grating. Knock On Wood and Sweet Home Alabama to name a few. Was around the Jersey Shore recently and listening to WJRZ and NJ 101.5 was an eye opener to just how pathetic CBSFM sounds lately, audio and music wise, CBS sounds STALE.
Click to expand...

While I think no one on here would disagree that the audio is terrible, those strong ratings that CBS-FM is getting are obviously from that "STALE" playlist you mention. People probably love those songs! They're staples of a 2013 classic hits station. Most people probably don't notice or care about the processing (sadly). But they definitely care about the MUSIC. CBS-FM is successfully bringing itself into the current time and staying relevant musically. Something that wasn't done proactively the first time around before Jack.

They've got some good imaging, new jingles in the mix and a decent stable of jocks. They're pulling good ratings for a reason. They know what they're doing.
 
LenoxAve said:
islanddxer said:
The audio aint the only thing that needs fixing, the repetition of some songs is just grating. Knock On Wood and Sweet Home Alabama to name a few. Was around the Jersey Shore recently and listening to WJRZ and NJ 101.5 was an eye opener to just how pathetic CBSFM sounds lately, audio and music wise, CBS sounds STALE.
Click to expand...

While I think no one on here would disagree that the audio is terrible, those strong ratings that CBS-FM is getting are obviously from that "STALE" playlist you mention. People probably love those songs! They're staples of a 2013 classic hits station. Most people probably don't notice or care about the processing (sadly). But they definitely care about the MUSIC. CBS-FM is successfully bringing itself into the current time and staying relevant musically. Something that wasn't done proactively the first time around before Jack.

They've got some good imaging, new jingles in the mix and a decent stable of jocks. They're pulling good ratings for a reason. They know what they're doing.
Click to expand...

That's because they are the only option on the dial for older music variety. Despite the repetition they are still the #1 preset on my radio so yes it's working. However, when I am further east and can get B-103 I listen to B103 more because the variety is better. The DJ's and imaging on CBS is very good for sure. I just wish they'd fix up the audio processing to sound more like NJ 101.5 with the reverb.
 
Reverb isn't really consistent with a classic hits format. It's more of an oldies element.
It's fatiguing and sounds out of place with the current music.
 
luperm said:
Reverb isn't really consistent with a classic hits format. It's more of an oldies element.
It's fatiguing and sounds out of place with the current music.
Click to expand...

NJ101.5 uses reverb all the time, both during their talk programming and during their Classic Hits ('60s-'80s) music on the weekends.

Light reverb on the DJ's mic helps add some depth to the voice, on any format. But just like their audio processing, CBS-FM probably doesn't know how to set it right.
 
Reverb???
Right..Let's put the GATES Level Devil and Sta-Level back in the audio chain too...
Probably have a CBS Volumax lying about as well.
 
CBS-FM DID have reverb on and off the mics over the past year, but as satech notes, like the audio, whoever was in charge of setting it up never quite got the hang of it. I think at this point, it's gone. Or it's just as muddy and lifeless as the rest of the audio and fairly difficult to recognize.
 
I'm not in the NYC market so I'm not able to comment on their current on-air signal. However, I've noticed in the past (when I DID live in NYC) that CBS-FM tended to use heavy limiting as their main processing scheme as opposed to mostly compression with limiting used on the peaks. WYNY-FM (the NBC-owned AC from way back when) also used mainly limiting (heavily) as their processing scheme.

So, what you are all describing sounds to me like exactly what CBS-FM has done for decades. Perhaps it sounds "muddy" only because the other music stations are no longer in that "overprocessed" frame of mind that was so popular up through the 80s and into part of the 90s.

BTW: I know that in some respects, limiting is just compression to the max. I tried to keep my comments as non-technical as possible!
 
gordonlee said:
I'm not in the NYC market so I'm not able to comment on their current on-air signal. However, I've noticed in the past (when I DID live in NYC) that CBS-FM tended to use heavy limiting as their main processing scheme as opposed to mostly compression with limiting used on the peaks. WYNY-FM (the NBC-owned AC from way back when) also used mainly limiting (heavily) as their processing scheme.

So, what you are all describing sounds to me like exactly what CBS-FM has done for decades. Perhaps it sounds "muddy" only because the other music stations are no longer in that "overprocessed" frame of mind that was so popular up through the 80s and into part of the 90s.

BTW: I know that in some respects, limiting is just compression to the max. I tried to keep my comments as non-technical as possible!
Click to expand...

I know many oldies stations have that processing scheme but I dont think that is the problem. Their modulation seems too low and the midrange is off. The classic CBS-FM sound was there before the long time engineer left, with a vibrant midrange, smooth bass, and crisp highs. The sound was "BIG". But now it seems dry, sorta like WOGL (last time I heard it). What's also odd is the records they play on Turntable Tuesday don't even sound like records, makes me wonder if they are just fooling us...
 
LenoxAve said:
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, I swear that the audio quality has slipped even further. I understand their desire to be not too in your face because of office listening, but this is insane. No other radio station has audio quality this muddy and soft. Even WLTW has more dynamic range.

They are constantly adding and removing reverb to the mics, too. I don't understand how tweaking can continue for so long and not result in anything definitively better.
Click to expand...

Jim Ryan is a big believer in clean audio and detests mic processing.
 
Raydeodood said:
Jim Ryan is a big believer in clean audio and detests mic processing.
Click to expand...

Then maybe he can get the engineer from Fresh, who obviously has a clue and an ear, to work on CBS-FM's chain. Fresh sounds great.
 
Jim Ryan is a big believer in clean audio and detests mic processing.
Click to expand...

Well, if he does, CBS-FM isn't very clean. Neither was Lite way back when. If by "clean" you mean "unprocessed" then yes, both stations fit that bill. I got it with Lite, as it was supposed to sound that way.

CBS-FM used to sound BIG when Mike was in charge of the audio. Now it just lays there, there's no "pop" or "jump off the dial" about it.

With today's processors, such as the 11, 9,8600 or the Air Aura, the firepower is there to be both loud and also clean. It takes a lot of listening and time, as well as a good set of ears, but it can be done.

I never got those that detested mic processing. Just like everything in audio, when used carefully, properly and with the minimal amount possible it can make the mic stand out of the mix, especially when talking up records. Back in his days at Lite, nobody was hitting the post. CBS-FM is different. With a properly processed mic, the levels are more consistent going in to the final processor(s), allowing the jock to mix his/her voice in with the music and have it be part OF the music. Not jumping way up in level or too low. A properly executed talk up should sound like it was almost recorded with the original song.

Off the soapbox now.
 
WNTIRadio said:
Jim Ryan is a big believer in clean audio and detests mic processing.
Click to expand...

Well, if he does, CBS-FM isn't very clean. Neither was Lite way back when. If by "clean" you mean "unprocessed" then yes, both stations fit that bill. I got it with Lite, as it was supposed to sound that way.

CBS-FM used to sound BIG when Mike was in charge of the audio. Now it just lays there, there's no "pop" or "jump off the dial" about it.

With today's processors, such as the 11, 9,8600 or the Air Aura, the firepower is there to be both loud and also clean. It takes a lot of listening and time, as well as a good set of ears, but it can be done.

I never got those that detested mic processing. Just like everything in audio, when used carefully, properly and with the minimal amount possible it can make the mic stand out of the mix, especially when talking up records. Back in his days at Lite, nobody was hitting the post. CBS-FM is different. With a properly processed mic, the levels are more consistent going in to the final processor(s), allowing the jock to mix his/her voice in with the music and have it be part OF the music. Not jumping way up in level or too low. A properly executed talk up should sound like it was almost recorded with the original song.

Off the soapbox now.
Click to expand...

I've always been of the opinion that the announcers microphone should have the same density/processing sound of the "lead vocal" on the music you play.
It allows both "leads", talent and singer, to match up on the air...

Every top-40 hit from the 50's on up has used processing and to a degree processing on the lead vocal microphone. So why not have processing on the announcer/dj/talent mic as well???

While I think Jim Ryan is a very good programmer, that is one I do not understand if that is indeed Mr.Ryan's position...
 
Raydeodood said:
Jim Ryan is a big believer in clean audio and detests mic processing.
Click to expand...

Having worked at both (stations with and without mic processing) I have to say that whatever the format, having mic processing is a very important part of the overall sound of the station. It also makes it much easier on the jox to keep talkups mixed in properly.
 
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