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A Fun Boxing Match

Re: A Personal Perspective

> It seems that there are people on this board with various
> ideas.

Yes, but, in reality, it's important to be aware that not all ideas are of equal value. There are ideas that create the desired results in the largest possible number of people every time...they're called "principles." There are other ideas that create the desired result for only one person...they're called "preferences."



> Someone mentioned the need for more Classic Christian music,...

Some may "desire" that, but those in the know can say with confidence that there is no "need" in the overwhelming majority of cases.

See, these are the kinds of things that we explain over and over, but some never learn what they're being told and, based on selfish desire alone, keep bringing it up over and over. If we're going to use these kinds of boards in a higher manner for nobler purposes, we simply must keep the focus of discussion on principles and refrain from rehashing already-addressed personal preferences.



> ...someone mentioned the need to target males,...

Again, the difference between "need" and "desire."

It's a lot easier to bring men along with women than it is to bring women along with men. If you can do only one or the other, you make much more impact going for the women.



> ...whatzthat mentioned the need to reach across ethnic lines...

Again, the difference between "need" and "desire"...and, in this case, the incredible difficulty of finding any adult-targeted format that is -- or is even capable of -- doing this.

Well, there's Smooth Jazz.... :)

...and that's it!

And there was more to it than suggesting "reaching across"...he basically indicted the format of AC and its programmers for racism! Rather than make such a false accusation, how 'bout working to learn what is true and why things are done the way they are long before even coming to a personal conclusion, let alone posting such a charge?!



> Christian radio and music has grown tremendously over the last
> few decades and it may be large enough to venture it into other formats.
> I guess I am visioning this from a body perspective, one body
> with different functions and one ultimate goal.

Excellent! We can all pray, hope, and work toward that. However, let's understand the wisdom in using the signals we have in the ways that make the biggest impact for the kingdom!
 
Re: A comment (again)

"And there was more to it than suggesting "reaching across"...he basically indicted the format of AC and its programmers for racism!"

That comment is extremely unfair. I think if you looked at any of my remarks you will not see me use racism. I do believe that we have grown up with an idea of what we think our listeners would like and I do believe subconsciously race may enter into it, not deliberately. I am not saying this as a blanket statement for every programmer. Someone on this board wrote of their experience of seeing music passed on because of the expression "too black" to play.(their words, not mine). That could be ingrained into many of us without even thinking, and perhaps if we didn't have that fleeting thought cross our mind we would not be passing on some great music. I thought this discussion was closed but a few keep going back to it. I WILL NOT be misquoted though and if you would like to see all my posts,I strongly encourage you to go to my name and click on "see all whatzthat's posts". You will not see the racism name anywhere except thrown at me, but its a new year and I'm not going back there. Until we can look within ourselves and see that we all need improvement in that area and be honest about it, this type of discussion will continue to stir up emotions.
Other than that small comment, what was written by Neutral Observer was very good. We all want to do excellent radio for the Lord and reach the lost, and also be an encouragement to Christians. Klove and The Fish probably reach more unbelievers with the AC format because they do have the balance to almost sound like a secular stations yet have enough ministry spots to reach the unreachable. There is too much Christianese in most AC stations. Of course the stations mentioned above are often criticized for not being Christian enough, you can't win, can you:). CHR, Rock and Rhythmic are more evangelistic but could turn off some conservative Christians (music is of the devil stuff). It all works though. God is in charge of all of this, His desire is that no one will be left behind, we are to follow His lead. There is something there on the dial for everyone, except classic Christian and you can find all you want of that on the internet.:).
 
Re: A Personal Perspective

> I certainly don't want a battle, never did. I can't seem to
> get this to end. I tried being funny even though I was the one
> actually made fun of. If I reply to anyone about anything, it
> ends up again in a dispute from the one who dislikes me so much.

I don't know that there is "one who dislikes you so much," but, if there indeed is "one who dislikes you so much," you worked awful hard to make that the case. That could have been avoided if you had discussed radio principles rather than personal preferences presented as if they were the official radio principles of God. Furthermore, I think it could have been avoided if you were more humble and honest about your level of knowledge and background...and you need to know that's coming from someone who will very quickly admit to you that his resume is weaker than it could and -- probably -- should be. (However, the more I look at and reflect on it, it really looks like a series of things that God uses in preparation and pre-positioning; so, we'll see...or, at least, I will!)



> I also mentioned that the dispute was bringing up bad thoughts to
> me being honest about it, and found myself being slammed
> concerning my character.

That is not an understandable sentence.

However, playing off only the word "character," I'll point out that you charged that personal racism was resulting in an entire format being racist and later, as I virtually knew you eventually would, stated that "no black artists = no black audience," which, mathematically speaking, is exactly equal to "black artists = black audience" and is pretty much a racist statement in itself.

As in anything, start with yourself....


> I was under the impression that a board was to discuss the
> pro's and con's of a subject...

Hey, great....but, after that's all said and done, you need to realize that there is, in most of these things, truth that you can learn and walk away with. Unfortunately, even in things that obviouosly should be seen as settled and known truth, you continue to view them as mere opinions that don't match your own and go away unchanged. Want proof? Look...


> It's a great thing when people realize that the world is made up
> of a lot of opinions.

See?

Here, let me finish that in the way it should conclude...

"...and an even better thing when people realize that those opinions are completely irrelevant in areas in which discernable and provable truth exist and can be learned!"

Regardless of what your title is and how long you've been doing this, you haven't really learned this field. You're clearly still operating from within your own perspective only..."winging it" rather than actually programming your radio station for the available audience.



> Also great programming does come from those who dare to do what seems
> the impossible.

...or so it may appear to you.

Actually, "the impossible" tends to be achieved in a rather mechanical way -- it comes not from someone's personal preference but from an intriguing twist and presentation put on an opportunity discovered by "hard" and "cold" research. Yes, it is occasionally the case that an opportunity is really obvious and a quick strike into the area is successful, but it is almost universally the case that one will find utter failure in discovering a "need" in oneself and assuming that "everyone else" or even "many" "feel" the same way.



> You can be a leader or a follower.

...or a servant. Or a servant leader. As Jesus taught and modeled.

You lead by serving...not by doing what you want in the guise of what "should be" done.



> That doesn't mean the others are wrong,...

However, in some number of cases, they are! In your relativistic paradigm, what then?


Look, I'm not trying to "attack you," per se. I'm strongly encouraging you to begin really learning about the field you've chosen and the more general marketing principles that make it go and to really think about your belief that all these things are just opinions and that all opinions are somehow of equal value...they're not, and they're not.

However, on the other hand, I'll also be quick to declare that, if God has really told you to do something, do it regardless of what I or anybody will say!
 
Re: A Personal Perspective

Email has no emotion nor are you able to see within the heart of someone, also at times it is difficult to find the words especially you are working at the same time. Some are good at discussing verbally, some writing it down. I'm not going to boast about how much I know about radio and how much more you tell us that you know. You can continue to boast about your knowledge if you desire.
The proof you are looking for is in the playlists of many stations. Since you like to sleuth and come up with wrong info, why not sleuth something that is pretty obvious.
I have never done anything to create an enemy on this discussion board other than to disagree or voice an opinion. A discussion can take place without hitting below the belt and that happened frequently to me,especially concerning my character(which is not known because you don't know even know me) and yes I did react back when I was hit. I apologize for getting caught up in the emotion of the discussion. Someone else on here needs to apologize too.
 
Re: A Personal Perspective

Would you mind including the text to which you respond? I'm not sure of the context of the following...



> Email has no emotion nor are you able to see within the
> heart of someone, also at times it is difficult to find the
> words especially you are working at the same time.

Fine, but I've never emailed you.



> I'm not going to boast about how much I know about radio...

But, in believing you know what belongs on the air, what is best, and what "must" be done, isn't that exactly what you're doing?



> You can continue to boast about your knowledge if you desire.

To continue, I would first have to begin. I was fairly boastful in my radio youth, when certain contacts I had made and travelling that I had done had exposed me to a whole lot of really good radio and how it was done, but I make no such claims now. I'm very much aware of how much I don't know and how much assistance I need to field a great radio station!

I know that I have been fairly bold here, but it is certainly not to boast. My purpose is to cause you to consider that, perhaps, you don't know best or what "should" be. If that really happens and you really do want to consider this field your calling, then it's likely that you'll start to take learning and asking questions more seriously. At least that's my hope.




> The proof you are looking for is in the playlists of many
> stations.

I don't know what that means.



> Since you like to sleuth and come up with wrong info,...

If I've done that, then, again, I apologize, but I combined geography, format, and tone of website text and came up with a guy whose playlist lists 43 currents....it's an amazing coincidence!



> ...why not sleuth something that is pretty obvious.

I don't understand what that means.



> I have never done anything to create an enemy on this
> discussion board other than to disagree or voice an opinion.

You have an actual enemy here???

I don't think so...I don't see that! I see people who've become very frustrated, but I haven't seen any enemies!

Any enemies that do exist may feel free to correct me...! :)



> A discussion can take place without hitting below the belt...

Of course it can! So stop charging an entire format and its programmers with racism (above or below the surface), message board posters with personal attacks when they've done no such thing, and those who bring more knowledge to the table with acting "boastful" and "acting as if the board belongs to them."



> ...and that happened frequently to me,...

I believe you've misinterpreted what's been said to you. There's been a lot of frustration -- and I do mean a lot -- that has been vented your way, but I'm not sure I recall seeing any actual hostility.



> ...especially concerning my character (which is not known because you
> don't know even know me) and yes I did react back when I was hit.

I don't think you realize the impact of the charges you've made...all without actually citing any evidence, to boot.



> I apologize for getting caught up in the emotion of the
> discussion. Someone else on here needs to apologize too.

Again, I don't think you understand how you're coming across...


Let me leave you with this thought:

If those of us you perceive as "attacking" you really did not like you or care about you, we wouln't be challenging you as we are and explaining things in such detail. It may not be to you, but it's obvious to me that the people you're calling "enemies" are really just working to help you learn and see to it that you come to the knowledge that will result in you being more effective and creating the best radio for your audience and God.
 
Re: A comment (again)

> > And there was more to it than suggesting "reaching
> > across"...he basically indicted the format of AC and its
> > programmers for racism!
>
> That comment is extremely unfair.

If it is, then I apologize.

However, that's my "opinion," and, according to your perspective, all opinions must be "respected" equally! :)



> I think if you looked at any of my remarks you will not see me use racism.

"No black artists = no black listeners."

-- Many, and probably most, give no consideration whatsoever to the skin color of the artist when deciding upon music.
-- Many, and probably most, don't think of the skin color of the listener when deciding upon music.
-- It is not the case that "no black artists = no black listeners." Country has black listeners, for example.
-- The mathematically equal inverse of that statement ("black artists = black listeners") is not necessarily true, either.
-- According to your statement, skin color must be observed, noted, and used.

If it is not racism to look for skin color, see it, check it, make assumptions and stereotypes about it, use it, and decide differently based on it, then what is?



> I do believe that we have grown up with an idea of what we think
> our listeners would like...

Yes...and then we get forced to grow up and get out of that belief!

My "push" came in a closed-door chewing out (I was made to get up and close the door...you know, like having to go and get the paddle that's about to be used on you!) during my third or fourth year in the business when a very, very good PD got mad at me for expressing disdain for the job another station was doing. In doing the format search and initial strategic for what we were doing, he had found that that station and its personalities flat out owned every image and position important to its format and had an audience that was almost 100% satisfied. I may have known how I wanted that station to sound and how that format was done in "all the big markets," but I did not know what the people in that area wanted from it and thought of the station that was doing it.

So, now, there are those of us that ask!



> You will not see the racism name
> anywhere except thrown at me, but its a new year and I'm not
> going back there. Until we can look within ourselves and see
> that we all need improvement in that area and be honest
> about it, this type of discussion will continue to stir up
> emotions.

At the risk of appearing to be compensating (or whatever psychologists call it), I will flat out state that I don't need any improvement in the area of racism!

Now, I will admit to you that I do have a certain amount of "culturism," but that's another thing entirely, and it's not something you've ever brought up.



> There is too much Christianese in most AC stations.

Really? I thought most had done a good job in eliminating that. Now, admittedly, some seem to be more...well, I may know what you're talking about.



> CHR, Rock and Rhythmic are more evangelistic but could turn off some
> conservative Christians (music is of the devil stuff).

Is that really still going on, or are you just saying that?
 
Re: A Personal Perspective

> > It seems that there are people on this board with various
> > ideas.
>
> Yes, but, in reality, it's important to be aware that not
> all ideas are of equal value. There are ideas that create
> the desired results in the largest possible number of people
> every time...they're called "principles." There are other
> ideas that create the desired result for only one
> person...they're called "preferences."
>
I understand the difference between principles and preferences. I understand that a programmer cannot program a station based on personal preferences. Your point is well taken. However, my question is concerning the future state of Christian radio as a whole. Are their opportunities for other Christian formats to rise up in the future? At one time, there was basically one style of Country radio, Rock radio, Adult Contemporary radio and Urban radio. Today, we have New Country, Classic Country; Hot AC, mainstream AC; mainstream Urban and Urban AC; and Active Rock and Classic Rock. Will Christian radio be able to grow and expand to other formats as well?
>
> > Someone mentioned the need for more Classic Christian
> music,...
>
> Some may "desire" that, but those in the know can say with
> confidence that there is no "need" in the overwhelming
> majority of cases.
>
> See, these are the kinds of things that we explain over and
> over, but some never learn what they're being told and,
> based on selfish desire alone, keep bringing it up over and
> over. If we're going to use these kinds of boards in a
> higher manner for nobler purposes, we simply must keep the
> focus of discussion on principles and refrain from rehashing
> already-addressed personal preferences.
>
Again, I understand the principles and personal preferences differences. I am not knocking out current Christian stations. Is there a need for other formats. Or, is the audience, support and music for other formats simply too small for a success of other Christian stations. I am not in the radio medium. I am just trying to learn and see what methods I need to take to impact the kingdom.
>
> > ...someone mentioned the need to target males,...
>
> Again, the difference between "need" and "desire."
>
> It's a lot easier to bring men along with women than it is
> to bring women along with men. If you can do only one or
> the other, you make much more impact going for the women.
>
>
>
> > ...whatzthat mentioned the need to reach across ethnic
> lines...
>
> Again, the difference between "need" and "desire"...and, in
> this case, the incredible difficulty of finding any
> adult-targeted format that is -- or is even capable of --
> doing this.
>
> Well, there's Smooth Jazz.... :)
>
> ...and that's it!
It seems oldies radio is doing this as well. Although, that format may be slowly dying.

> And there was more to it than suggesting "reaching
> across"...he basically indicted the format of AC and its
> programmers for racism! Rather than make such a false
> accusation, how 'bout working to learn what is true and why
> things are done the way they are long before even coming to
> a personal conclusion, let alone posting such a charge?!

I didn't perceive that he was trying to charge programmers for racism. If this is the case, then it is a false accusation. I thought he was addressing an issue that he believe is a concern. However, I refuse to take side with anyone or place words in someone else's mouth. He can speak for himself.
>
>
>
> > Christian radio and music has grown tremendously over the
> last
> > few decades and it may be large enough to venture it into
> other formats.
> > I guess I am visioning this from a body perspective, one
> body
> > with different functions and one ultimate goal.
>
> Excellent! We can all pray, hope, and work toward that.
> However, let's understand the wisdom in using the signals we
> have in the ways that make the biggest impact for the
> kingdom!
>
Well, I tell you the truth. I am not here to slam anyone. I like to see the signals, and perhaps future signals, make the biggest impact for the kingdom as well. This is the only reason why I am asking the questions and trying to learn. My agenda is not to slam anyone or any station because slamming another is of no values in impacting the kingdom.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by The RadioFan on 01/02/06 01:10 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Format Growth

> The RadioFan wrote:
> "Christian radio and music has grown tremendously over the
> last few decades and it may be large enough to venture it
> into other formats."
>
>
> It may...but audience share will come into the picture...and
> I'm not sure there is honestly enough music to do it. (good
> music)
>
> Radio is so very different than our CD collection, ipods, or
> any other way we listen to music. Even video. So the usuage
> and tolerance is just so different.
>
> There are still a lot of stations that aren't even showing
> up on the radar with just a handfull of listeners (in the
> big picture of audience share)...while others are definitely
> making a dent in the market
>
> But yes... different music falls into different formats. And
> anyone with a dream and the financial backing to make it
> happen to start spinning any format they like, including a
> rotation of singles not heard on another AC. Just how many
> that station would reach is debatable.
>
> That is the joy of having options like satellite, ipods,
> cds, and frequencies... people pick what they want, when
> they want it. And God uses it all.
>
> :)
> e
I understand your points. It seems to be a major challenge to reach those that are not listening to Christian AC. Also, it seems that some artists outside the Christian AC playlist, are having difficulty in marketing their music. It may be at the point that some, like myself, may need to go out into the highways and byways to get the message and music across.
 
Re: A comment (again)

>
> "No black artists = no black listeners."

I'm not the only one who said that.

"Country has black listeners, for example."

I'm rolling on the floor. Please give the stats on that because that is unheard of. In fact Charlie Pride years ago was lauded as the first black country singer hoping he would bring in a different group of listeners. They actually used the black expression.

" Yes...and then we get forced to grow up and get out of that
> belief!"

Some don't, some don't realize it's even there.

"At the risk of appearing to be compensating (or whatever
> psychologists call it), I will flat out state that I don't
> need any improvement in the area of racism!"

I never said anyone was a racist.
It is more habit and the way people have grown up, that's not racism, and you know it just may not apply to you. You have obviously grown in that area, again some don't even think about it.

There is too much Christianese in most AC stations.
Really? I thought most had done a good job in eliminating
> that. Now, admittedly, some seem to be more...well, I may
> know what you're talking about.
>
I heard a few this weekend that were rolling in it.

"Is that really still going on, or are you just saying that?"

Yes that stuff about Christian music (lumped together) being of the devil is still going on. I wouldn't make up something so stupid. BBN has done a good job of preaching to their listeners that drums are evil, guitars of any kind are evil rock and silly stuff. They actually just gave a new book away about it. I'm not slamming BBN, they do a good job. They always say they play the "real music". :) Also don't forget that guy that runs around preaching against Christian music, I forgot his name right now, confusing people with his seminars and selling his "real Christian music" for a small fortune. If you want more proof that it's still alive look on the net, just put in Christian music.
Someone on my staff goes to a church that tells him and his kids that the music we play is of the devil. I have advised him many times that his church is confusing his kids and to find a less judgemental one. It's not good if your kids think that you are breaking God's law. Now they don't have respect for him and think it doesn't matter what they listen to. He is having quite a time with them.

I, like you see Christian music as music, no color etc. As I was driving on a trip a few years ago, I just was not happy with what I was hearing on the Christian stations I was tuning in to. I began to ponder it, that is when I realized that a lot of the music we were playing was not being played elsewhere, and they were of a particular color. Now mind you I always looked at other playlists, I just didn't look at that particular missing link. I also was in a position where I recommended songs to be added and I began to notice that "those" songs were bypassed. I'm not a racist. I have people who are different color than I am working me and didn't realize or care what color they were, I still don't. I do care if they are getting unfair treatment, that goes for anyone. I am though not afraid to bring up something that most of us who are mature people should be able to talk about. Like I mentioned before, I have several very very close black friends, they are not afraid to talk about what they go through and things about their color. I never in a million years would have thought what I wrote quoting Paragon's statistics would have created so much hostility. Perhaps I'm a little ahead of dealing with this stuff because of my friends who are open about what they go through. I apologize for not realizing that it's not that way every where. That's the only conclusion I can come to.
 
Re: A Personal Perspective

> Would you mind including the text to which you respond? I'm
> not sure of the context of the following...

You can't tell if I am smiling in an email or if I am upset. You can't know anything about me through email. You can draw an assumption but it could very well be wrong because of these factors, also include how your day has gone, and due to that your reaction to something (I'm using "you" as not personal) all of it could get tied up in email to create misunderstandings.

"Fine, but I've never emailed you."
Your responses come to my email account so in a sense you are emailing me, responding to me.

But, in believing you know what belongs on the air, what is
> best, and what "must" be done, isn't that exactly what
> you're doing?
I asked what we could do to make the situation better. Someone else completely skewed my intentions.
If you consider wanting the best music played regardless of color, I will consider that a boast. You win.

"You can continue to boast about your knowledge if you
> desire."

Pehaps you will notice more too, my hope. I've been in this field for almost 20 years, I don't need you to tell me what I need to know. I can learn from you though and you also can learn from me. I learned my field with hands on experience, I'm not full of college terms perhaps that's where we differ.

"it's an amazing coincidence!"

Why would it be a coincidence if it is wrong.

" Of course it can! So stop charging an entire format and its
> programmers with racism (above or below the surface),
> message board posters with personal attacks when they've
> done no such thing, and those who bring more knowledge to
> the table with acting "boastful" and "acting as if the board
> belongs to them."

Go read my posts, you will never see "racism" used. I never attacked the forum about it. I related the statics that were mentioned at the R&R summit.

" I believe you've misinterpreted what's been said to you.
> There's been a lot of frustration -- and I do mean a lot --
> that has been vented your way, but I'm not sure I recall
> seeing any actual hostility."

Attacking my character is actual hostility and that has been done. My character is important to me. It is my representation of the Lord and what He has done through me. It is important. Please go to read all of whatzthat's posts and see if I EVER called anyone a racist or if you are confused because one person assumed I did.

I appreciate it that you are trying to help me.
 
Re: correction

Hey Neutral:

I believe the actual comment was more like "black people like black music" or something to that effect... I'd pull up the thread...but gosh, there are just SOOO many.
 
Re: correction to Neutral

>
"I believe the actual comment was more like "black people
> like black music" or something to that effect... I'd pull up
> the thread...but gosh, there are just SOOO many."

Yes, there were quite a few. Someone needs to look in the mirror if she is commenting on my many replies since I was replying to hers.
 
A second request for peace.

Whatzthat:

If I knew who you were, you would get this in a personal email...but since I don't, it's public:

I asked you kindly to not reply to my posts if possible.

I really have no desire to communicate with you...on a board...or elsewhere.

I really am sorry that you felt you could not honor that request to "live at peace with all men" (which is why I asked a little earlier in this thread).

I offered a correction to a misquote which dealt with the threads on racism. And I offered it to a specific poster.

Yet, here again... you reference me and you insult me...saying I need to "look in the mirror", implying something improper would be there.

I stand behind every single post. Nothing I ever said will impact the character and position I've always held. And I stand behind them with my own name. That should speak to how proud of my position I am on these issues.

I'm professional, direct, sincere and have absolutely no need to back peddle on any remark I've made.

Again... please, if you cannot discuss radio or contribute radio discussion in your posts, kindly keep from communicating directly with me on this board.

Thank you,

Elizabeth<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: A second request for peace.

>
E's "I'm professional, direct, sincere and have absolutely no
> need to back peddle on any remark I've made."


If your back peddle concerns me and I'm not involved you are heading toward gossip and slander. my remark was not a response to you it was in reply to the sarcastic remark you made to Neutral Observer concerning me, and my reply was to him.
Here are the rules incase you aren't aware: don't talk about me and I will not reply about it. If I could block you I would but you are everywhere which is your freedom on this discussion board as it is mine. I didn't ask you to reply to me and I KINDLY would perfer you to find something else to discuss.
Leave me alone and I will definitly leave you alone. It's that simple and that includes replying to someone else about me.
>
 
Re: A second request for peace.

> If your back peddle concerns me and I'm not involved you are
> heading toward gossip and slander. my remark was not a
> response to you it was in reply to the sarcastic remark you
> made to Neutral Observer concerning me, and my reply was to
> him.

Hunh? Wow...I'm totally lost.


But I'm thinking that's okay....
 
Re: LOL!

neutral_observer wrote:
" Wow...I'm totally lost.
But I'm thinking that's okay...."


Getting lost is a lost art. I try to do it at least once a day.
:)
 
Re: correction

> Hey Neutral:
>
> I believe the actual comment was more like "black people
> like black music" or something to that effect...


He might have said that, but I definitely remember an occurrence of "no black artists = no black listeners."

I had a hunch he would eventually say something like that, so I was (perhaps inappropriately) gleeful when he did and did in such a straight-forward, even mathematical way. It was such a moment that it definitely stuck in my brain! :)

Also, his expressing it in such a mathematic fashion allows you to do interesting things with it.

"no black artists = no black listeners."

With "no" being on both sides of the equal sign, "no" can be dropped to form an equivalent equation. Therefore, he also said...

"black artists = black listeners."

Now, note that "black" appears on both sides of the equation and can also be dropped....

"artists = listeners"

...which is not true and doesn't even really mean anything. ('Cause, as we all know, there are a number of formats that have listeners but not a single actual "artist!")

Next, if you wanted, you could back up and do some other things. You could substitute "all" (or "some" or 34%) for "no" and "white" (or "Cuban" or "Mexican" or "Italian" or "fat" or "tall") for "black," run a whole bunch of combinations and permutations, and find that not a single one of those can be shown to be completely true, either!
 
To Neutral_Observer

I definitely think the posts in the thread do a good job of drawing out the inconsistency in the argument, which just had no legs.

Either way, that discussion was not able to remain very civil...and on a board like this, it is doubtful it could...but perhaps someone learned something from scanning.

I've been doing this format for a lot of years, and I've been priveledged to work with some of the finest in the industry. Never has race played a role in selecting or spinning music. Never.

And rarely have I been in a situation that caused me such frustration. Even when working with youth groups! Terms like "white = white" or "black = black" or "black friends" & "white colleagues" & "purple artists" for that matter...etc.. oh, they just grate me! So, the passion flares. :)

Thanks again for your great post above. Really felt good to be honored that way.

If we chat about it here though... odds are another attack will ensue...so, how about we just keep to the other threads above and avoid the obvious...shall we?

:)
e
<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: LOL!

> Getting lost is a lost art. I try to do it at least once a
> day.
> :)

Nice...

I have an absolutely outstanding sense of direction. I remember reading one theory of the brain that suggested the existence of thirteen different and distinct kinds of intelligence, one of which was "mental map" or the degree to which one has inherent ability to comprehend geography, be aware of one's place in it, and move around in it with ease. Well, that part of my brain must be massive...I truly am a man who never needs to ask for directions!

Anyway, it's really hard for me to really get lost. However, in Minneapolis this past summer, I kinda did...twice! I knew I was going in the right direction, but I didn't really know how I was getting there. The first time, I wound up "accidentally" discovering a couple of radio stations ("hey, those look like STL antennas...I wonder...", and, the second time, I wound up in the exact spot from which a lot of semi-scenic photographs I'd seen had been taken.

Yep, even for someone who finds it almost impossible, getting lost can be pure joy...!
 
Re: LOL!

when I was 20 I got lost finding myself...

but doesn't everyone?
 
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