I can't help but notice that some of Infinity's other "Free-FM" stations, like the ones in Washington D.C. and San Diego, have some very entertaining shows: Phil Hendrie, Tom Leykis, Jay Severin, Adam Carolla, to name a few. It just seems New York's version of Free-FM has inferior programming...just like when they were a frat-boy "alternative-rock" station. I've sampled New York's Free-FM heavily and it seems forced, boring and often unprofessional-sounding. You would think the number one market in the country would have a better selection of hosts but I guess that's asking too much.
-
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A K-Rock by any other name....
- Thread starter Batfink
- Start date
while I have been skiing mostly at okemo.
as some of you might know many people ski in VT
on the weekends from the NYC metro area
all I have heard is "this crap has got to go."
has been the saying for free fm.
"I like q 104.3 but I can only stand it so much."
I hope these people are the one's who get the arbitron ratings thats all I have to say.
> I can't help but notice that some of Infinity's other
> "Free-FM" stations, like the ones in Washington D.C. and San
> Diego, have some very entertaining shows: Phil Hendrie, Tom
> Leykis, Jay Severin, Adam Carolla, to name a few. It just
> seems New York's version of Free-FM has inferior
> programming...just like when they were a frat-boy
> "alternative-rock" station. I've sampled New York's Free-FM
> heavily and it seems forced, boring and often
> unprofessional-sounding. You would think the number one
> market in the country would have a better selection of hosts
> but I guess that's asking too much.
>
as some of you might know many people ski in VT
on the weekends from the NYC metro area
all I have heard is "this crap has got to go."
has been the saying for free fm.
"I like q 104.3 but I can only stand it so much."
I hope these people are the one's who get the arbitron ratings thats all I have to say.
> I can't help but notice that some of Infinity's other
> "Free-FM" stations, like the ones in Washington D.C. and San
> Diego, have some very entertaining shows: Phil Hendrie, Tom
> Leykis, Jay Severin, Adam Carolla, to name a few. It just
> seems New York's version of Free-FM has inferior
> programming...just like when they were a frat-boy
> "alternative-rock" station. I've sampled New York's Free-FM
> heavily and it seems forced, boring and often
> unprofessional-sounding. You would think the number one
> market in the country would have a better selection of hosts
> but I guess that's asking too much.
>
A
AlbanyGreatDane
Guest
> while I have been skiing mostly at okemo.
> as some of you might know many people ski in VT
> on the weekends from the NYC metro area
> all I have heard is "this crap has got to go."
> has been the saying for free fm.
> "I like q 104.3 but I can only stand it so much."
> I hope these people are the one's who get the arbitron
> ratings thats all I have to say.
Hey Ozman... For all those people from NYC complaining about 92.3 and 104.3, tell them on thier way back to NYC from Okemo to go through I-87 through New York (versus through Mass and CT on I-91). It is in NY on I-87 (Northway and Thruway) they can hear what radio SHOULD be (for fans that lean towards 92.3 and 104.3).
They can start by telling them to put on 'Classic Alternative' 102.7 WEQX when they leave Okemo and enjoy it all the way to near Kingston, NY. When they get near Albany they can keep on 'EQX or they can try:
93.7/94.5 'The Bone' - Rock
103.1 - 'Channel 103.1' - Alternative
103.5/103.9 'Q-103' - Classic Rock
104.9 (New) 'The Edge' - Modern Rock
106.5 - 'PYX 106' - Classic Rock
Thats 6 choices.
Then once out of range of the Albany stations on the Thruway (Kingston, NY area) they can put on:
100.1 'Radio Woodstock' - World Class Rock
There are also many other good stations in New York's Hudson Valley.
God I miss having good terestrial radio to listen to up there. Gotta Love XM.
> as some of you might know many people ski in VT
> on the weekends from the NYC metro area
> all I have heard is "this crap has got to go."
> has been the saying for free fm.
> "I like q 104.3 but I can only stand it so much."
> I hope these people are the one's who get the arbitron
> ratings thats all I have to say.
Hey Ozman... For all those people from NYC complaining about 92.3 and 104.3, tell them on thier way back to NYC from Okemo to go through I-87 through New York (versus through Mass and CT on I-91). It is in NY on I-87 (Northway and Thruway) they can hear what radio SHOULD be (for fans that lean towards 92.3 and 104.3).
They can start by telling them to put on 'Classic Alternative' 102.7 WEQX when they leave Okemo and enjoy it all the way to near Kingston, NY. When they get near Albany they can keep on 'EQX or they can try:
93.7/94.5 'The Bone' - Rock
103.1 - 'Channel 103.1' - Alternative
103.5/103.9 'Q-103' - Classic Rock
104.9 (New) 'The Edge' - Modern Rock
106.5 - 'PYX 106' - Classic Rock
Thats 6 choices.
Then once out of range of the Albany stations on the Thruway (Kingston, NY area) they can put on:
100.1 'Radio Woodstock' - World Class Rock
There are also many other good stations in New York's Hudson Valley.
God I miss having good terestrial radio to listen to up there. Gotta Love XM.
Well, we'll see how the numbers look. A few weeks back there was an article on the Friday Morning Quarterback web page, discussing Free FM KLSX in LA. The article claims that KLSX has lost over 50% of its listeners since Howard Stern left. Free Fm is trying to appeal to young people, and young people simply don't listen to talk radio. I’m telling you, letting Howard go was a huge mistake. It would have been more profitable to pay off millions in fines, than to see all of his ex-affiliates crumble to dirt.
As far as Free FM in New York goes, I think the Free Rock Weekends sound great. How about this; a) bring back Alternative rock (but do it right this time), b) have a morning show with Penn Jilette and Nik Carter.
But that's my opinion, I could be wrong.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by StereoBrain on 02/18/06 10:14 AM.</FONT></P>
As far as Free FM in New York goes, I think the Free Rock Weekends sound great. How about this; a) bring back Alternative rock (but do it right this time), b) have a morning show with Penn Jilette and Nik Carter.
But that's my opinion, I could be wrong.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by StereoBrain on 02/18/06 10:14 AM.</FONT></P>
I
Ivan
Guest
Yep.
>
> They can start by telling them to put on 'Classic
> Alternative' 102.7 WEQX when they leave Okemo and enjoy it
> all the way to near Kingston, NY. When they get near Albany
> they can keep on 'EQX or they can try:
>
> 93.7/94.5 'The Bone' - Rock
> 103.1 - 'Channel 103.1' - Alternative
> 103.5/103.9 'Q-103' - Classic Rock
> 104.9 (New) 'The Edge' - Modern Rock
> 106.5 - 'PYX 106' - Classic Rock
>
> Thats 6 choices.
>
> Then once out of range of the Albany stations on the Thruway
> (Kingston, NY area) they can put on:
>
> 100.1 'Radio Woodstock' - World Class Rock
>
> There are also many other good stations in New York's Hudson
> Valley.
>
> God I miss having good terestrial radio to listen to up
> there. Gotta Love XM.
>
Yes, good choices. Shame what has happened to the city.
>
> They can start by telling them to put on 'Classic
> Alternative' 102.7 WEQX when they leave Okemo and enjoy it
> all the way to near Kingston, NY. When they get near Albany
> they can keep on 'EQX or they can try:
>
> 93.7/94.5 'The Bone' - Rock
> 103.1 - 'Channel 103.1' - Alternative
> 103.5/103.9 'Q-103' - Classic Rock
> 104.9 (New) 'The Edge' - Modern Rock
> 106.5 - 'PYX 106' - Classic Rock
>
> Thats 6 choices.
>
> Then once out of range of the Albany stations on the Thruway
> (Kingston, NY area) they can put on:
>
> 100.1 'Radio Woodstock' - World Class Rock
>
> There are also many other good stations in New York's Hudson
> Valley.
>
> God I miss having good terestrial radio to listen to up
> there. Gotta Love XM.
>
Yes, good choices. Shame what has happened to the city.
> They can start by telling them to put on 'Classic
> Alternative' 102.7 WEQX when they leave Okemo and enjoy it
> all the way to near Kingston, NY. When they get near Albany
> they can keep on 'EQX or they can try:
--For the record, WEQX is an alternative station, not classic alternative. They play a great deal of currents and recurrents, and the classic alternative that WEQX plays may only emphasize the current alternative sound that they are playing now. And contrary to what any Clear Channel alternative station may think, Nickelback is NOT alternative!
Jacko<P ID="signature">______________
I live for my dream,
And a pocket full of gold.
</P>
> Alternative' 102.7 WEQX when they leave Okemo and enjoy it
> all the way to near Kingston, NY. When they get near Albany
> they can keep on 'EQX or they can try:
--For the record, WEQX is an alternative station, not classic alternative. They play a great deal of currents and recurrents, and the classic alternative that WEQX plays may only emphasize the current alternative sound that they are playing now. And contrary to what any Clear Channel alternative station may think, Nickelback is NOT alternative!
Jacko<P ID="signature">______________
I live for my dream,
And a pocket full of gold.
</P>
Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative
> And contrary to what any Clear Channel
> alternative station may think, Nickelback is NOT
> alternative!
>
> Jacko
>
I agree completely - however, we're in the minority. CBS / Infinity Modern Rockers also love Nickelback, as does Monmouth/Ocean's Alternative station, G Rock Radio (which can be heard in parts of the city on 106.3). I have repeatedly tried to convey this message to them, but they think this is what the audience wants to hear, just because they've sold tons of records (NOT to fans of Alternative Rock - it's the "meathead rock" lovers and the soccer moms that think Nickelback is the greatest thing since sliced bread).</P>
As for NYC - CBS/Infinity just doesn't know what its audience wants. They went from a very safe frat boy "Alternative", to 24/7 "meathead rock", to where they are now - Talk Radio for the frat boys, with the exception of the morning show and the Radio Chick. David Lee Roth is probably something of a frat boy messiah, but his program's material and humor (that is, whatever humor there is) seems to be geared toward people in DLR's age range. The other shows (with Penn Jillette being the one listenable exception) are only hysterical and worth listening to if you have an IQ under 70.</P>
Once again, CBS/Infinity is proving that they don't have a clue as to what is needed in NYC. Either an eclectic Active Rocker (one that doesn't play Linkin Park every 20 minutes) or, better yet, a REAL Alternative station. Not a weak by-the-books variant on the format that plays the hell out of all the lame pop/punk fairies and all the post-grunge and rap/rock mooks, but one that takes the roots of the format, combines it with plenty of currents, as well as mixing in a few heavier acts (for night rotation, at least). This is the type of station that is needed in this market - Depeche Mode, Beck, Radiohead, the Cure, Blur, Morrissey, R.E.M., the Pixies and the Replacements could be among the core artists for the station. Nothing like this has been attempted, and anyone that gives a format like this at least two ratings books is almost certainly going to be rewarded. However, I'm definitely not holding my breath for CBS/Infinity to attempt this.</P>
> And contrary to what any Clear Channel
> alternative station may think, Nickelback is NOT
> alternative!
>
> Jacko
>
I agree completely - however, we're in the minority. CBS / Infinity Modern Rockers also love Nickelback, as does Monmouth/Ocean's Alternative station, G Rock Radio (which can be heard in parts of the city on 106.3). I have repeatedly tried to convey this message to them, but they think this is what the audience wants to hear, just because they've sold tons of records (NOT to fans of Alternative Rock - it's the "meathead rock" lovers and the soccer moms that think Nickelback is the greatest thing since sliced bread).</P>
As for NYC - CBS/Infinity just doesn't know what its audience wants. They went from a very safe frat boy "Alternative", to 24/7 "meathead rock", to where they are now - Talk Radio for the frat boys, with the exception of the morning show and the Radio Chick. David Lee Roth is probably something of a frat boy messiah, but his program's material and humor (that is, whatever humor there is) seems to be geared toward people in DLR's age range. The other shows (with Penn Jillette being the one listenable exception) are only hysterical and worth listening to if you have an IQ under 70.</P>
Once again, CBS/Infinity is proving that they don't have a clue as to what is needed in NYC. Either an eclectic Active Rocker (one that doesn't play Linkin Park every 20 minutes) or, better yet, a REAL Alternative station. Not a weak by-the-books variant on the format that plays the hell out of all the lame pop/punk fairies and all the post-grunge and rap/rock mooks, but one that takes the roots of the format, combines it with plenty of currents, as well as mixing in a few heavier acts (for night rotation, at least). This is the type of station that is needed in this market - Depeche Mode, Beck, Radiohead, the Cure, Blur, Morrissey, R.E.M., the Pixies and the Replacements could be among the core artists for the station. Nothing like this has been attempted, and anyone that gives a format like this at least two ratings books is almost certainly going to be rewarded. However, I'm definitely not holding my breath for CBS/Infinity to attempt this.</P>
Re: Yep.
> >
> > God I miss having good terestrial radio to listen to up
> > there. Gotta Love XM.
> >
> Yes, good choices. Shame what has happened to the city.
>
If you like alternative rock and don't have XM or Sirius, may I suggest listening to Indie 103.1 (http://www.indie1031.com)on the internet,a small L.A. station that streams live 24/7. I know it's not the same as having a good alternative NYC station and there's lots of choices on the internet,but as far as variety of great alternative music this one's among the best I've heard.
> >
> > God I miss having good terestrial radio to listen to up
> > there. Gotta Love XM.
> >
> Yes, good choices. Shame what has happened to the city.
>
If you like alternative rock and don't have XM or Sirius, may I suggest listening to Indie 103.1 (http://www.indie1031.com)on the internet,a small L.A. station that streams live 24/7. I know it's not the same as having a good alternative NYC station and there's lots of choices on the internet,but as far as variety of great alternative music this one's among the best I've heard.
F
Frish
Guest
Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative
> > And contrary to what any Clear Channel
> > alternative station may think, Nickelback is NOT
> > alternative!
> >
> > Jacko
> >
> I agree completely - however, we're in the minority. CBS /
> Infinity Modern Rockers also love Nickelback, as does
> Monmouth/Ocean's Alternative station, G Rock Radio (which
> can be heard in parts of the city on 106.3). I have
> repeatedly tried to convey this message to them, but they
> think this is what the audience wants to hear, just because
> they've sold tons of records (NOT to fans of Alternative
> Rock - it's the "meathead rock" lovers and the soccer moms
> that think Nickelback is the greatest thing since sliced
> bread). As for NYC - CBS/Infinity just doesn't know what
> its audience wants. They went from a very safe frat boy
> "Alternative", to 24/7 "meathead rock", to where they are
> now - Talk Radio for the frat boys, with the exception of
> the morning show and the Radio Chick. David Lee Roth is
> probably something of a frat boy messiah, but his program's
> material and humor (that is, whatever humor there is) seems
> to be geared toward people in DLR's age range. The other
> shows (with Penn Jillette being the one listenable
> exception) are only hysterical and worth listening to if you
> have an IQ under 70. Once again, CBS/Infinity is proving
> that they don't have a clue as to what is needed in NYC.
> Either an eclectic Active Rocker (one that doesn't play
> Linkin Park every 20 minutes) or, better yet, a REAL
> Alternative station. Not a weak by-the-books variant on the
> format that plays the hell out of all the lame pop/punk
> fairies and all the post-grunge and rap/rock mooks, but one
> that takes the roots of the format, combines it with plenty
> of currents, as well as mixing in a few heavier acts (for
> night rotation, at least). This is the type of station that
> is needed in this market - Depeche Mode, Beck, Radiohead,
> the Cure, Blur, Morrissey, R.E.M., the Pixies and the
> Replacements could be among the core artists for the
> station. Nothing like this has been attempted, and anyone
> that gives a format like this at least two ratings books is
> almost certainly going to be rewarded. However, I'm
> definitely not holding my breath for CBS/Infinity to attempt
> this.
>
Let's go with the premise of your post, without trying to be disrespectful it's very, VERY elitist. Nickleback isn't 'Alternative"? I would tend to be in agreement but seriously what in 2006 what actually IS alternative? it does not really exist. as for the Meathead assertion that is very elitist considering the same could be said of rage against the machine which is undeniably a great and important band, but if you've ever been to show, or even a Chili Peppers show, it is meathead central. I also tend to be of the belief that the moment you're selling millions of albums you're no longer very alterrnative.
In truth the station you suggest is not an alternative station it is a classic alternative station. why? mostly because most of the bands that you've brought up either are not making music currently or the music that they are making isnt really selling anymore. New pixies? not a factor, no one cares, because it's not "doolittle" or "surfer Rosa" and times have changed since their pinnacle in the 90's. Also in the real world, Morrissy? doesn't sell, R.E.M? over and does not sell anymore, Blur never broke America and the one song that did, "song 2" is a "meathead" anthem. The Cure has not sold for years, the only music that people are really interested in are their older songs while albums like "bloodflowers" dont make any sort of impression when released. Depeche Mode whose new album is really very decent and reminiscient of earlier work is not a big record by any stretch. While it is not all about record sales, the truth is that the bands that you've mentioned are basically over except for their older library material which is part of the reason that alternative is pretty dead. In fact the only real constant ratings success in the format is still kroq in La and they're playing Metallica along with the arcade fire etc. While it's easy to point the finger at "corproate radio" and proclaim that they have no idea what listeners want, they dont make decisions without research which may be flawed but it is definately more accurate and based on something more than your belief that playing the bands that you think are cool (and I do too) would be a success. Another problem, "plenty of currents" while it makes the hipster who wants to be on top of everything new and happening happy, as a rule the more currents you play you have to pair them with familliar material otherwise no one will listen to a station that is mostly unfamilliar, that is just fact. Remember this though cbs hung in with krock for years with the same basic ratings which led to it's format flip in 2006, for years. Keeping in mind that Howard Stern was still part of the picture but they did hang in with the alternativee format for almost ten years where it was not a ratings powerhouse, To be fair it may not be possible to get much more than a three share with a music format in New York that does not comprise some sort of urban component to it too. So while corproate radio might not be the most fantastic idea just saying " alternative would work if they just played cool bands and the right songs insated of pandering to the uncool people (meatheads)", well it's just not that obvious or simple, nothing evver is.
> > And contrary to what any Clear Channel
> > alternative station may think, Nickelback is NOT
> > alternative!
> >
> > Jacko
> >
> I agree completely - however, we're in the minority. CBS /
> Infinity Modern Rockers also love Nickelback, as does
> Monmouth/Ocean's Alternative station, G Rock Radio (which
> can be heard in parts of the city on 106.3). I have
> repeatedly tried to convey this message to them, but they
> think this is what the audience wants to hear, just because
> they've sold tons of records (NOT to fans of Alternative
> Rock - it's the "meathead rock" lovers and the soccer moms
> that think Nickelback is the greatest thing since sliced
> bread). As for NYC - CBS/Infinity just doesn't know what
> its audience wants. They went from a very safe frat boy
> "Alternative", to 24/7 "meathead rock", to where they are
> now - Talk Radio for the frat boys, with the exception of
> the morning show and the Radio Chick. David Lee Roth is
> probably something of a frat boy messiah, but his program's
> material and humor (that is, whatever humor there is) seems
> to be geared toward people in DLR's age range. The other
> shows (with Penn Jillette being the one listenable
> exception) are only hysterical and worth listening to if you
> have an IQ under 70. Once again, CBS/Infinity is proving
> that they don't have a clue as to what is needed in NYC.
> Either an eclectic Active Rocker (one that doesn't play
> Linkin Park every 20 minutes) or, better yet, a REAL
> Alternative station. Not a weak by-the-books variant on the
> format that plays the hell out of all the lame pop/punk
> fairies and all the post-grunge and rap/rock mooks, but one
> that takes the roots of the format, combines it with plenty
> of currents, as well as mixing in a few heavier acts (for
> night rotation, at least). This is the type of station that
> is needed in this market - Depeche Mode, Beck, Radiohead,
> the Cure, Blur, Morrissey, R.E.M., the Pixies and the
> Replacements could be among the core artists for the
> station. Nothing like this has been attempted, and anyone
> that gives a format like this at least two ratings books is
> almost certainly going to be rewarded. However, I'm
> definitely not holding my breath for CBS/Infinity to attempt
> this.
>
Let's go with the premise of your post, without trying to be disrespectful it's very, VERY elitist. Nickleback isn't 'Alternative"? I would tend to be in agreement but seriously what in 2006 what actually IS alternative? it does not really exist. as for the Meathead assertion that is very elitist considering the same could be said of rage against the machine which is undeniably a great and important band, but if you've ever been to show, or even a Chili Peppers show, it is meathead central. I also tend to be of the belief that the moment you're selling millions of albums you're no longer very alterrnative.
In truth the station you suggest is not an alternative station it is a classic alternative station. why? mostly because most of the bands that you've brought up either are not making music currently or the music that they are making isnt really selling anymore. New pixies? not a factor, no one cares, because it's not "doolittle" or "surfer Rosa" and times have changed since their pinnacle in the 90's. Also in the real world, Morrissy? doesn't sell, R.E.M? over and does not sell anymore, Blur never broke America and the one song that did, "song 2" is a "meathead" anthem. The Cure has not sold for years, the only music that people are really interested in are their older songs while albums like "bloodflowers" dont make any sort of impression when released. Depeche Mode whose new album is really very decent and reminiscient of earlier work is not a big record by any stretch. While it is not all about record sales, the truth is that the bands that you've mentioned are basically over except for their older library material which is part of the reason that alternative is pretty dead. In fact the only real constant ratings success in the format is still kroq in La and they're playing Metallica along with the arcade fire etc. While it's easy to point the finger at "corproate radio" and proclaim that they have no idea what listeners want, they dont make decisions without research which may be flawed but it is definately more accurate and based on something more than your belief that playing the bands that you think are cool (and I do too) would be a success. Another problem, "plenty of currents" while it makes the hipster who wants to be on top of everything new and happening happy, as a rule the more currents you play you have to pair them with familliar material otherwise no one will listen to a station that is mostly unfamilliar, that is just fact. Remember this though cbs hung in with krock for years with the same basic ratings which led to it's format flip in 2006, for years. Keeping in mind that Howard Stern was still part of the picture but they did hang in with the alternativee format for almost ten years where it was not a ratings powerhouse, To be fair it may not be possible to get much more than a three share with a music format in New York that does not comprise some sort of urban component to it too. So while corproate radio might not be the most fantastic idea just saying " alternative would work if they just played cool bands and the right songs insated of pandering to the uncool people (meatheads)", well it's just not that obvious or simple, nothing evver is.
Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative
Alternative rock these days is a format that causes some to debate what alternative rock really is. The best commericial stations of the alternative rock format right now, in my opinion are KROQ in LA, WEQX in southern VT and Albany and WFNX in Boston. Unfortunately, trades like Billboard and Radio and Records use a lot of corporately owned stations in their tracking, which is why Nickelback, and other soundalike band's songs end up ranking so high, which in turn causes smaller-market alternative stations to play the songs because they're so high on the chart. Come to think of it, WFNX and WEQX, to the best of my knowledge, aren't even tracked by Billboard or R&R anymore.
On the flip side, I've been in touch with several jocks at WBRU/Providence, Brown University's alterative station, and have asked them why they play Nickelback, even though no Nickelback songs ever make it onto their listener-voted "12 Cuts Above the Rest" countdown. They say that many listeners listen to Nickelback because it is popular, however the listeners that email or call in their requests are not calling in for Nickelback because they're trying to get the more alty artists like Matisyahu or Beck more airplay. I think G-Rock in New Jersey is in the same boat.
Oddly enough, CBS owned "alternative" rocker WBCN in Boston, which if you listen to it sounds more like an AOR station because they mix in classics from Zeppelin, AC/DC and Aerosmith, does not play any Nickelback, at least their music from the most recent album.
I guess this conversation should continue on the alternative board...
Jacko<P ID="signature">______________
I live for my dream,
And a pocket full of gold.
</P>
Alternative rock these days is a format that causes some to debate what alternative rock really is. The best commericial stations of the alternative rock format right now, in my opinion are KROQ in LA, WEQX in southern VT and Albany and WFNX in Boston. Unfortunately, trades like Billboard and Radio and Records use a lot of corporately owned stations in their tracking, which is why Nickelback, and other soundalike band's songs end up ranking so high, which in turn causes smaller-market alternative stations to play the songs because they're so high on the chart. Come to think of it, WFNX and WEQX, to the best of my knowledge, aren't even tracked by Billboard or R&R anymore.
On the flip side, I've been in touch with several jocks at WBRU/Providence, Brown University's alterative station, and have asked them why they play Nickelback, even though no Nickelback songs ever make it onto their listener-voted "12 Cuts Above the Rest" countdown. They say that many listeners listen to Nickelback because it is popular, however the listeners that email or call in their requests are not calling in for Nickelback because they're trying to get the more alty artists like Matisyahu or Beck more airplay. I think G-Rock in New Jersey is in the same boat.
Oddly enough, CBS owned "alternative" rocker WBCN in Boston, which if you listen to it sounds more like an AOR station because they mix in classics from Zeppelin, AC/DC and Aerosmith, does not play any Nickelback, at least their music from the most recent album.
I guess this conversation should continue on the alternative board...
Jacko<P ID="signature">______________
I live for my dream,
And a pocket full of gold.
</P>
F
Frish
Guest
Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative
> Alternative rock these days is a format that causes some to
> debate what alternative rock really is. The best
> commericial stations of the alternative rock format right
> now, in my opinion are KROQ in LA, WEQX in southern VT and
> Albany and WFNX in Boston. Unfortunately, trades like
> Billboard and Radio and Records use a lot of corporately
> owned stations in their tracking, which is why Nickelback,
> and other soundalike band's songs end up ranking so high,
> which in turn causes smaller-market alternative stations to
> play the songs because they're so high on the chart. Come
> to think of it, WFNX and WEQX, to the best of my knowledge,
> aren't even tracked by Billboard or R&R anymore.
>
> On the flip side, I've been in touch with several jocks at
> WBRU/Providence, Brown University's alterative station, and
> have asked them why they play Nickelback, even though no
> Nickelback songs ever make it onto their listener-voted "12
> Cuts Above the Rest" countdown. They say that many
> listeners listen to Nickelback because it is popular,
> however the listeners that email or call in their requests
> are not calling in for Nickelback because they're trying to
> get the more alty artists like Matisyahu or Beck more
> airplay. I think G-Rock in New Jersey is in the same boat.
>
>
> Oddly enough, CBS owned "alternative" rocker WBCN in Boston,
> which if you listen to it sounds more like an AOR station
> because they mix in classics from Zeppelin, AC/DC and
> Aerosmith, does not play any Nickelback, at least their
> music from the most recent album.
>
> I guess this conversation should continue on the alternative
> board...
>
> Jacko
>
Of the station's you point to here, kroq is the only one that is successful and they are in SOME opinions (you hear people in LA bitch about them all the time) a corproate. tightly rotated station too.... but they're Kroq, they will always be great if you ask me. Also wherever you are if you're in that market you probably take the hometown station for granted which would explain those who bash kroq for those reasons. WFNX and WEQX HAVE NO RATINGS, NONE, ZERO. NO listeners to speak of. The only reason that they still exist is that they are both mom and pop operations that are owned by an individual. That could not happen in New York because of what it would cost to buy a station in a market that big so only corproatations can afford to operate in a markett of that size.maybe Mike Bloomberg or Donald Trump would purchase a station in new York but would you really want to hear trump radio?. FNX and EQX, They dont pay anyone anything to speak of and are staffed by people who are hungry to break into radio and mostly sound it so they do make money because their costs are so minimal. WFNX is a vehicle to promote the Boston Phoenix newspaper, and wbcn has played nickleback for years. So again I have to say that I dont think your idea that perfect alternative station would work in new york even though I respect your ideas.
> Alternative rock these days is a format that causes some to
> debate what alternative rock really is. The best
> commericial stations of the alternative rock format right
> now, in my opinion are KROQ in LA, WEQX in southern VT and
> Albany and WFNX in Boston. Unfortunately, trades like
> Billboard and Radio and Records use a lot of corporately
> owned stations in their tracking, which is why Nickelback,
> and other soundalike band's songs end up ranking so high,
> which in turn causes smaller-market alternative stations to
> play the songs because they're so high on the chart. Come
> to think of it, WFNX and WEQX, to the best of my knowledge,
> aren't even tracked by Billboard or R&R anymore.
>
> On the flip side, I've been in touch with several jocks at
> WBRU/Providence, Brown University's alterative station, and
> have asked them why they play Nickelback, even though no
> Nickelback songs ever make it onto their listener-voted "12
> Cuts Above the Rest" countdown. They say that many
> listeners listen to Nickelback because it is popular,
> however the listeners that email or call in their requests
> are not calling in for Nickelback because they're trying to
> get the more alty artists like Matisyahu or Beck more
> airplay. I think G-Rock in New Jersey is in the same boat.
>
>
> Oddly enough, CBS owned "alternative" rocker WBCN in Boston,
> which if you listen to it sounds more like an AOR station
> because they mix in classics from Zeppelin, AC/DC and
> Aerosmith, does not play any Nickelback, at least their
> music from the most recent album.
>
> I guess this conversation should continue on the alternative
> board...
>
> Jacko
>
Of the station's you point to here, kroq is the only one that is successful and they are in SOME opinions (you hear people in LA bitch about them all the time) a corproate. tightly rotated station too.... but they're Kroq, they will always be great if you ask me. Also wherever you are if you're in that market you probably take the hometown station for granted which would explain those who bash kroq for those reasons. WFNX and WEQX HAVE NO RATINGS, NONE, ZERO. NO listeners to speak of. The only reason that they still exist is that they are both mom and pop operations that are owned by an individual. That could not happen in New York because of what it would cost to buy a station in a market that big so only corproatations can afford to operate in a markett of that size.maybe Mike Bloomberg or Donald Trump would purchase a station in new York but would you really want to hear trump radio?. FNX and EQX, They dont pay anyone anything to speak of and are staffed by people who are hungry to break into radio and mostly sound it so they do make money because their costs are so minimal. WFNX is a vehicle to promote the Boston Phoenix newspaper, and wbcn has played nickleback for years. So again I have to say that I dont think your idea that perfect alternative station would work in new york even though I respect your ideas.
Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative
>>>Remember this though cbs hung in with krock for years with the same basic ratings which led to it's format flip in 2006, for years<<<
In all fairness, KROCK was an active rock station posing as an alternative station. KROCK always tried to play the "rawk and roll" that they perceived Stern fans liked in a failed attempt to keep his listeners after he went off. I'm not saying the ratings would have been better if they were alternative, it's just we'll never know.
As far as alternative being dead, it never was supposed to be the most popular form of music, in fact by definition quite the opposite. What do I care about how much money some corporation can make by bragging about their customized Arbitron numbers? So if you think alternative is dead as a music as opposed to a money-making entity, I strongly disagree, and recommend the following bands to prove my point (you may not love every one of them but as a true music fan there should be some you'll like): Arctic Monkeys, She Wants Revenge, Giant Drag, Morningwood, My Morning Jacket, The Editors, Elefant, Art Brut, Bloc Party, Gtraham Coxon, LCD Soundsystem, Nine Black Alps, Pinback, and The Lashes. No fair saying they all suck if you haven't heard them all. And yes, a good place to check them out is my favorite FM station, streaming live on the internet at indie1031.com. (No, I don't work there)
>>>Remember this though cbs hung in with krock for years with the same basic ratings which led to it's format flip in 2006, for years<<<
In all fairness, KROCK was an active rock station posing as an alternative station. KROCK always tried to play the "rawk and roll" that they perceived Stern fans liked in a failed attempt to keep his listeners after he went off. I'm not saying the ratings would have been better if they were alternative, it's just we'll never know.
As far as alternative being dead, it never was supposed to be the most popular form of music, in fact by definition quite the opposite. What do I care about how much money some corporation can make by bragging about their customized Arbitron numbers? So if you think alternative is dead as a music as opposed to a money-making entity, I strongly disagree, and recommend the following bands to prove my point (you may not love every one of them but as a true music fan there should be some you'll like): Arctic Monkeys, She Wants Revenge, Giant Drag, Morningwood, My Morning Jacket, The Editors, Elefant, Art Brut, Bloc Party, Gtraham Coxon, LCD Soundsystem, Nine Black Alps, Pinback, and The Lashes. No fair saying they all suck if you haven't heard them all. And yes, a good place to check them out is my favorite FM station, streaming live on the internet at indie1031.com. (No, I don't work there)
F
Frish
Guest
Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative
> >>>Remember this though cbs hung in with krock for years
> with the same basic ratings which led to it's format flip in
> 2006, for years
>
As far as alternative being dead, it never was supposed to be the most popular form of music, in fact by definition quite the opposite. What do I care about how much money some corporation can make by bragging about their customized Arbitron numbers? So if you think alternative is dead as a music as opposed to a money-making entity, I strongly disagree, and recommend the following bands to prove my point (you may not love every one of them but as a true music fan there should be some you'll like): Arctic Monkeys, She Wants Revenge, Giant Drag, Morningwood, My Morning Jacket, The Editors, Elefant, Art Brut, Bloc Party, Gtraham Coxon, LCD Soundsystem, Nine Black Alps, Pinback, and The Lashes. No fair saying they all suck if you haven't heard them all. And yes, a good place to check them out is my favorite FM station, streaming live on the internet at indie1031.com. (No, I don't work there)
I wouldnt say that they all suck, in fact I love the Art Brut band, saw them in Brooklyn a few weeks ago, fantastic!, Grahm Coxon should have stayed in BLUR, my morning jacket is fantastic, Bloc Party is GREAT, she wants revenge's single is pretty good too, etc.. so I would not say that they suck that's just as dumb as saying "if you play the bands that I LIKE that station will be a huge success", and you're right Im not saying that sales of an artist denote that an artist is good, look at the Brittany Spears of the world they sell tons and clearly suck. You also played the "I hate corproations' card in your post too talking about not caring about what some corproation makes as a result of arbitron etc, well many of the bands you mentioned ar eon major labels, as corproate as it gets.
The point is that if you say alternative was never supposed to be all that popular the point is that you're not going to get a New York station to play music that is not supposed to be popular because by definition they then dont have enough people to listen to it to sustain it. You cant really separate the money making aspect from the equation because if the station cant make money it cant stay on the air, that's the simplified version.
Indie 103 also has ZERO ratings and although they were interesting when they first signed on I dont find them particularly interesting anymore but that's just my opinion. There is a lot of playing things there ONLY BECUASE KROQ WONT, does that mean that those things are GOOD? not necessarily. We could debate the merits of certain bands forever but the point is this is a radio board and a new york radio board, and the premise of the discussion is what would and would not work on the radio in New York. Indie 103 would not work in New York. You could also argue that the only reason that it works in LA (which it doesnt really because it doesnt have ratings) is that KROQ is there, if KROQ were not there they woiuld have no reason to be so far left of the mainstream 'alt rock" selections.
Dont misundersatnd that i am not syaing that any station that does not have a 5 share is not worth listening to but you're confusing the issue becuase the issue is not what bands are good or cool, the issue was what would work in new York on the radio.
> >>>Remember this though cbs hung in with krock for years
> with the same basic ratings which led to it's format flip in
> 2006, for years
>
As far as alternative being dead, it never was supposed to be the most popular form of music, in fact by definition quite the opposite. What do I care about how much money some corporation can make by bragging about their customized Arbitron numbers? So if you think alternative is dead as a music as opposed to a money-making entity, I strongly disagree, and recommend the following bands to prove my point (you may not love every one of them but as a true music fan there should be some you'll like): Arctic Monkeys, She Wants Revenge, Giant Drag, Morningwood, My Morning Jacket, The Editors, Elefant, Art Brut, Bloc Party, Gtraham Coxon, LCD Soundsystem, Nine Black Alps, Pinback, and The Lashes. No fair saying they all suck if you haven't heard them all. And yes, a good place to check them out is my favorite FM station, streaming live on the internet at indie1031.com. (No, I don't work there)
I wouldnt say that they all suck, in fact I love the Art Brut band, saw them in Brooklyn a few weeks ago, fantastic!, Grahm Coxon should have stayed in BLUR, my morning jacket is fantastic, Bloc Party is GREAT, she wants revenge's single is pretty good too, etc.. so I would not say that they suck that's just as dumb as saying "if you play the bands that I LIKE that station will be a huge success", and you're right Im not saying that sales of an artist denote that an artist is good, look at the Brittany Spears of the world they sell tons and clearly suck. You also played the "I hate corproations' card in your post too talking about not caring about what some corproation makes as a result of arbitron etc, well many of the bands you mentioned ar eon major labels, as corproate as it gets.
The point is that if you say alternative was never supposed to be all that popular the point is that you're not going to get a New York station to play music that is not supposed to be popular because by definition they then dont have enough people to listen to it to sustain it. You cant really separate the money making aspect from the equation because if the station cant make money it cant stay on the air, that's the simplified version.
Indie 103 also has ZERO ratings and although they were interesting when they first signed on I dont find them particularly interesting anymore but that's just my opinion. There is a lot of playing things there ONLY BECUASE KROQ WONT, does that mean that those things are GOOD? not necessarily. We could debate the merits of certain bands forever but the point is this is a radio board and a new york radio board, and the premise of the discussion is what would and would not work on the radio in New York. Indie 103 would not work in New York. You could also argue that the only reason that it works in LA (which it doesnt really because it doesnt have ratings) is that KROQ is there, if KROQ were not there they woiuld have no reason to be so far left of the mainstream 'alt rock" selections.
Dont misundersatnd that i am not syaing that any station that does not have a 5 share is not worth listening to but you're confusing the issue becuase the issue is not what bands are good or cool, the issue was what would work in new York on the radio.
weqx doesn't come in that well at okemo but it does at surrounding resorts like Stratton and mt.Snow (where I love listening to WAAF i can't thank them enough for going back to their paxton transmitter)
as for telling everyone to take 87? I dunno...
It seems to me someone really loves posting WCCC 106.9 bumperstickers everywhere up here in VT.
I'd love to run into the person who is doing this.
> > while I have been skiing mostly at okemo.
> > as some of you might know many people ski in VT
> > on the weekends from the NYC metro area
> > all I have heard is "this crap has got to go."
> > has been the saying for free fm.
> > "I like q 104.3 but I can only stand it so much."
> > I hope these people are the one's who get the arbitron
> > ratings thats all I have to say.
>
> Hey Ozman... For all those people from NYC complaining about
> 92.3 and 104.3, tell them on thier way back to NYC from
> Okemo to go through I-87 through New York (versus through
> Mass and CT on I-91). It is in NY on I-87 (Northway and
> Thruway) they can hear what radio SHOULD be (for fans that
> lean towards 92.3 and 104.3).
>
> They can start by telling them to put on 'Classic
> Alternative' 102.7 WEQX when they leave Okemo and enjoy it
> all the way to near Kingston, NY. When they get near Albany
> they can keep on 'EQX or they can try:
>
> 93.7/94.5 'The Bone' - Rock
> 103.1 - 'Channel 103.1' - Alternative
> 103.5/103.9 'Q-103' - Classic Rock
> 104.9 (New) 'The Edge' - Modern Rock
> 106.5 - 'PYX 106' - Classic Rock
>
> Thats 6 choices.
>
> Then once out of range of the Albany stations on the Thruway
> (Kingston, NY area) they can put on:
>
> 100.1 'Radio Woodstock' - World Class Rock
>
> There are also many other good stations in New York's Hudson
> Valley.
>
> God I miss having good terestrial radio to listen to up
> there. Gotta Love XM.
>
as for telling everyone to take 87? I dunno...
It seems to me someone really loves posting WCCC 106.9 bumperstickers everywhere up here in VT.
I'd love to run into the person who is doing this.
> > while I have been skiing mostly at okemo.
> > as some of you might know many people ski in VT
> > on the weekends from the NYC metro area
> > all I have heard is "this crap has got to go."
> > has been the saying for free fm.
> > "I like q 104.3 but I can only stand it so much."
> > I hope these people are the one's who get the arbitron
> > ratings thats all I have to say.
>
> Hey Ozman... For all those people from NYC complaining about
> 92.3 and 104.3, tell them on thier way back to NYC from
> Okemo to go through I-87 through New York (versus through
> Mass and CT on I-91). It is in NY on I-87 (Northway and
> Thruway) they can hear what radio SHOULD be (for fans that
> lean towards 92.3 and 104.3).
>
> They can start by telling them to put on 'Classic
> Alternative' 102.7 WEQX when they leave Okemo and enjoy it
> all the way to near Kingston, NY. When they get near Albany
> they can keep on 'EQX or they can try:
>
> 93.7/94.5 'The Bone' - Rock
> 103.1 - 'Channel 103.1' - Alternative
> 103.5/103.9 'Q-103' - Classic Rock
> 104.9 (New) 'The Edge' - Modern Rock
> 106.5 - 'PYX 106' - Classic Rock
>
> Thats 6 choices.
>
> Then once out of range of the Albany stations on the Thruway
> (Kingston, NY area) they can put on:
>
> 100.1 'Radio Woodstock' - World Class Rock
>
> There are also many other good stations in New York's Hudson
> Valley.
>
> God I miss having good terestrial radio to listen to up
> there. Gotta Love XM.
>
Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative
> > >>>Remember this though cbs hung in with krock for years
> > with the same basic ratings which led to it's format flip
> in
> > 2006, for years
> >
> As far as alternative being dead, it never was supposed to
> be the most popular form of music, in fact by definition
> quite the opposite. What do I care about how much money some
> corporation can make by bragging about their customized
> Arbitron numbers? So if you think alternative is dead as a
> music as opposed to a money-making entity, I strongly
> disagree, and recommend the following bands to prove my
> point (you may not love every one of them but as a true
> music fan there should be some you'll like): Arctic Monkeys,
> She Wants Revenge, Giant Drag, Morningwood, My Morning
> Jacket, The Editors, Elefant, Art Brut, Bloc Party, Gtraham
> Coxon, LCD Soundsystem, Nine Black Alps, Pinback, and The
> Lashes. No fair saying they all suck if you haven't heard
> them all. And yes, a good place to check them out is my
> favorite FM station, streaming live on the internet at
> indie1031.com. (No, I don't work there)
>
> I wouldnt say that they all suck, in fact I love the Art
> Brut band, saw them in Brooklyn a few weeks ago, fantastic!,
> Grahm Coxon should have stayed in BLUR, my morning jacket is
> fantastic, Bloc Party is GREAT, she wants revenge's single
> is pretty good too, etc.. so I would not say that they suck
> that's just as dumb as saying "if you play the bands that I
> LIKE that station will be a huge success", and you're right
> Im not saying that sales of an artist denote that an artist
> is good, look at the Brittany Spears of the world they sell
> tons and clearly suck. You also played the "I hate
> corproations' card in your post too talking about not
> caring about what some corproation makes as a result of
> arbitron etc, well many of the bands you mentioned ar eon
> major labels, as corproate as it gets.
>
> The point is that if you say alternative was never supposed
> to be all that popular the point is that you're not going to
> get a New York station to play music that is not supposed to
> be popular because by definition they then dont have enough
> people to listen to it to sustain it. You cant really
> separate the money making aspect from the equation because
> if the station cant make money it cant stay on the air,
> that's the simplified version.
> Indie 103 also has ZERO ratings and although they were
> interesting when they first signed on I dont find them
> particularly interesting anymore but that's just my opinion.
> There is a lot of playing things there ONLY BECUASE KROQ
> WONT, does that mean that those things are GOOD? not
> necessarily. We could debate the merits of certain bands
> forever but the point is this is a radio board and a new
> york radio board, and the premise of the discussion is what
> would and would not work on the radio in New York. Indie 103
> would not work in New York. You could also argue that the
> only reason that it works in LA (which it doesnt really
> because it doesnt have ratings) is that KROQ is there, if
> KROQ were not there they woiuld have no reason to be so far
> left of the mainstream 'alt rock" selections.
>
> Dont misundersatnd that i am not syaing that any station
> that does not have a 5 share is not worth listening to but
> you're confusing the issue becuase the issue is not what
> bands are good or cool, the issue was what would work in new
> York on the radio.
First, let me say your comments are well written and you made some very valid points. I was just saying that the music itself still lives, and a music fan shouldn't be personally affected if a station's ratings aren't great. Also, my point was not that "corporations suck"; after all, you could go back to The Clash and The Ramones ... both distributed by major corporations. I was actually using the word "corporation" as a euphemism for "radio station", since most radio stations are owned by corporations concerned only ---perhaps rightfully so ---about the bottom line, not offending the sensibilities of the masses. To me, good radio doesn't always mean popular radio here in New York or anywhere else. But I realize New York radio is too much of a high-stakes game at this point to expect much else than what we have now---a sea of mediocrity, filled with holes, but able to fetch top dollar for ad time. I'm just sorry money, and not art, is the only motivating factor in what gets programmed and I do think there was at least a little bit of the "art" side mixed in before radio stations became so expensive and, well...corporate.
> > >>>Remember this though cbs hung in with krock for years
> > with the same basic ratings which led to it's format flip
> in
> > 2006, for years
> >
> As far as alternative being dead, it never was supposed to
> be the most popular form of music, in fact by definition
> quite the opposite. What do I care about how much money some
> corporation can make by bragging about their customized
> Arbitron numbers? So if you think alternative is dead as a
> music as opposed to a money-making entity, I strongly
> disagree, and recommend the following bands to prove my
> point (you may not love every one of them but as a true
> music fan there should be some you'll like): Arctic Monkeys,
> She Wants Revenge, Giant Drag, Morningwood, My Morning
> Jacket, The Editors, Elefant, Art Brut, Bloc Party, Gtraham
> Coxon, LCD Soundsystem, Nine Black Alps, Pinback, and The
> Lashes. No fair saying they all suck if you haven't heard
> them all. And yes, a good place to check them out is my
> favorite FM station, streaming live on the internet at
> indie1031.com. (No, I don't work there)
>
> I wouldnt say that they all suck, in fact I love the Art
> Brut band, saw them in Brooklyn a few weeks ago, fantastic!,
> Grahm Coxon should have stayed in BLUR, my morning jacket is
> fantastic, Bloc Party is GREAT, she wants revenge's single
> is pretty good too, etc.. so I would not say that they suck
> that's just as dumb as saying "if you play the bands that I
> LIKE that station will be a huge success", and you're right
> Im not saying that sales of an artist denote that an artist
> is good, look at the Brittany Spears of the world they sell
> tons and clearly suck. You also played the "I hate
> corproations' card in your post too talking about not
> caring about what some corproation makes as a result of
> arbitron etc, well many of the bands you mentioned ar eon
> major labels, as corproate as it gets.
>
> The point is that if you say alternative was never supposed
> to be all that popular the point is that you're not going to
> get a New York station to play music that is not supposed to
> be popular because by definition they then dont have enough
> people to listen to it to sustain it. You cant really
> separate the money making aspect from the equation because
> if the station cant make money it cant stay on the air,
> that's the simplified version.
> Indie 103 also has ZERO ratings and although they were
> interesting when they first signed on I dont find them
> particularly interesting anymore but that's just my opinion.
> There is a lot of playing things there ONLY BECUASE KROQ
> WONT, does that mean that those things are GOOD? not
> necessarily. We could debate the merits of certain bands
> forever but the point is this is a radio board and a new
> york radio board, and the premise of the discussion is what
> would and would not work on the radio in New York. Indie 103
> would not work in New York. You could also argue that the
> only reason that it works in LA (which it doesnt really
> because it doesnt have ratings) is that KROQ is there, if
> KROQ were not there they woiuld have no reason to be so far
> left of the mainstream 'alt rock" selections.
>
> Dont misundersatnd that i am not syaing that any station
> that does not have a 5 share is not worth listening to but
> you're confusing the issue becuase the issue is not what
> bands are good or cool, the issue was what would work in new
> York on the radio.
First, let me say your comments are well written and you made some very valid points. I was just saying that the music itself still lives, and a music fan shouldn't be personally affected if a station's ratings aren't great. Also, my point was not that "corporations suck"; after all, you could go back to The Clash and The Ramones ... both distributed by major corporations. I was actually using the word "corporation" as a euphemism for "radio station", since most radio stations are owned by corporations concerned only ---perhaps rightfully so ---about the bottom line, not offending the sensibilities of the masses. To me, good radio doesn't always mean popular radio here in New York or anywhere else. But I realize New York radio is too much of a high-stakes game at this point to expect much else than what we have now---a sea of mediocrity, filled with holes, but able to fetch top dollar for ad time. I'm just sorry money, and not art, is the only motivating factor in what gets programmed and I do think there was at least a little bit of the "art" side mixed in before radio stations became so expensive and, well...corporate.
Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative
I respect your opinion as well. The biggest factor as to why WEQX and WFNX aren't very successful in the ratings department is station signal. WEQX broadcasts from Manchester, VT, which is a good 40 miles or so from Albany, while WHRL (Channel 103.1) has their antenna closer to the city. WFNX also has reception issues and is only a class A station (3kw equivalent) which broadcasts several miles north of Boston, but with hopes of relocating its transmitter into downtown Boston. Plus WFNX had a couple years of an identity crisis, and they may be still trying to bounce back from that. In both cases, both stations do have the best signals in the markets that they are trying to serve, however the quality of the stations themselves should speak louder.
Jacko<P ID="signature">______________
I live for my dream,
And a pocket full of gold.
</P>
I respect your opinion as well. The biggest factor as to why WEQX and WFNX aren't very successful in the ratings department is station signal. WEQX broadcasts from Manchester, VT, which is a good 40 miles or so from Albany, while WHRL (Channel 103.1) has their antenna closer to the city. WFNX also has reception issues and is only a class A station (3kw equivalent) which broadcasts several miles north of Boston, but with hopes of relocating its transmitter into downtown Boston. Plus WFNX had a couple years of an identity crisis, and they may be still trying to bounce back from that. In both cases, both stations do have the best signals in the markets that they are trying to serve, however the quality of the stations themselves should speak louder.
Jacko<P ID="signature">______________
I live for my dream,
And a pocket full of gold.
</P>
Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative
> Let's go with the premise of your post, without trying to be
> disrespectful it's very, VERY elitist. Nickleback isn't
> 'Alternative"? I would tend to be in agreement but
> seriously what in 2006 what actually IS alternative? it
> does not really exist. as for the Meathead assertion that is
> very elitist considering the same could be said of rage
> against the machine which is undeniably a great and
> important band, but if you've ever been to show, or even a
> Chili Peppers show, it is meathead central. I also tend to
> be of the belief that the moment you're selling millions of
> albums you're no longer very alterrnative.
Good post. Very well articulated. I see where you're coming from with your statements about Rage Against The Machine. I'm sure they had some intellectually impaired fans that couldn't grasp the message in their songs - they liked them because their music "rawked" and nothing more. Note, of course, that these are the same people that are shameless fans of Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock, whose dumbed-down mook rock made them even more ubiquitous stars than RATM were at their peak - of course it goes without saying that their music has aged about as well as cheese left out in the Arizona sun for 50 years.</P>
Part of the problem with Alternative Radio has been the lack of bands that will stand the test of time. There's some bands that have potential, but then there's some bands that you know aren't going to be around for long. I personally find Coldplay to be mediocre Radiohead knockoffs who sell albums because they're inoffensive and because of the hype. Very early into their career they're already ripping themselves off ("Speed Of Sound" = "Clocks"), and the other songs on this album sound too similar to their earlier material. Unless they can evolve or put out something with substance, they won't be around for more than another 5 or 10 years. Ditto for Fall Out Boy. What's the difference between them and Blink 182, Good Charlotte, Sum 41, New Found Glory and Simple Plan? Oh, yeah - there is none. I guess the reason for the Alternative format declining in popularity can be attributed to two factors: 1). Too many bands that play it safe earning the "Alternative" classification. 2). The fact that you've pretty much heard everything on the Alternative format before - neo-new wave, pop/punk and post-grunge make up the bulk of Alternative playlists (both Current and Classic). I've always thought of Alternative as "outside the box" or "against the grain" - however, mainstream America disagrees and that type of music doesn't move too many units, and when it does, it actually becomes "the grain" at that point. Alternative could be considered "rock that doesn't conform to arena rock stereotypes" - but then again, what do you call Nickelback, 3 Doors Down, and Puddle Of Mudd? I guess it can be said that the term "Alternative" has been rendered meaningless. Blame it on the format becoming too commercialized for its own good</P>
> In truth the station you suggest is not an alternative
> station it is a classic alternative station. why? mostly
> because most of the bands that you've brought up either are
> not making music currently or the music that they are making
> isnt really selling anymore.
You've got a point. I suppose bands such as Nine Inch Nails, Franz Ferdinand, The Killers, Bloc Party, Arctic Monkeys, Kasabian, heck, even Green Day and Weezer (despite being totally commercial) have enough long-term visibility and credibility to receive airplay as well. A good amount of currents I think would be between 45 and 60.</P>
As mentioned in another post, NYC has never had a legitimate Alternative format. Remember that K-Rock grew out of what was originally a Classic Rock station, and counted Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains and the like as its core artists (artists that are now Mainstream / Active Rock staples) - even back then you seldom (if ever) heard anything by the Cure, Depeche Mode, the Smiths, the Replacements, Joy Division and other '80s Alternative acts. They even went so far as to incorporate "retro rock" (think Rush, Hendrix, Zeppelin, etc.) into their format around 1997 or so, which further indicates that K-Rock could never be considered an Alternative station in the true sense of the word. Heck, even Z-100 during their Alternative/CHR incarnation was closer to a real Alternative than K-Rock was.</P>
There's this overwhelming belief that an Alternative Rock station can't work in NYC. That may be true, but it would have worked at one time - talk to a few random people in the city and you'll be surprised at how many own satellite radios. These are the people that would have been listening to a real FM Alternative if one had been attempted, but it never was. K-Rock was convinced that its true bread and butter was the mook nation, but after a brief period of prosperity they continued to go downhill. Instead of going in the more unique direction, they decided to challenge Q 104.3 by appealing to the older mooks out there with the "Great Rock Period" format, and there was little surprise that they fell flat on their faces. Now once again they're going after the frat boys with a format that already flopped once in their hands. Without a Howard Stern or an Opie & Anthony to carry it, Free-FM is a sinking ship and I think CBS/Infinity would be wise to cut their losses. Where to go from here? Why not try something that hasn't been attempted yet - a REAL Alternative station. Appeal to a wide ranging group with a catalog as deep as Jack-FM, without going too commercial. Nah, it will never happen - God forbid CBS/Infinity should try something that may alienate those sacred beer companies and their beloved frat boys.</P>
> Let's go with the premise of your post, without trying to be
> disrespectful it's very, VERY elitist. Nickleback isn't
> 'Alternative"? I would tend to be in agreement but
> seriously what in 2006 what actually IS alternative? it
> does not really exist. as for the Meathead assertion that is
> very elitist considering the same could be said of rage
> against the machine which is undeniably a great and
> important band, but if you've ever been to show, or even a
> Chili Peppers show, it is meathead central. I also tend to
> be of the belief that the moment you're selling millions of
> albums you're no longer very alterrnative.
Good post. Very well articulated. I see where you're coming from with your statements about Rage Against The Machine. I'm sure they had some intellectually impaired fans that couldn't grasp the message in their songs - they liked them because their music "rawked" and nothing more. Note, of course, that these are the same people that are shameless fans of Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock, whose dumbed-down mook rock made them even more ubiquitous stars than RATM were at their peak - of course it goes without saying that their music has aged about as well as cheese left out in the Arizona sun for 50 years.</P>
Part of the problem with Alternative Radio has been the lack of bands that will stand the test of time. There's some bands that have potential, but then there's some bands that you know aren't going to be around for long. I personally find Coldplay to be mediocre Radiohead knockoffs who sell albums because they're inoffensive and because of the hype. Very early into their career they're already ripping themselves off ("Speed Of Sound" = "Clocks"), and the other songs on this album sound too similar to their earlier material. Unless they can evolve or put out something with substance, they won't be around for more than another 5 or 10 years. Ditto for Fall Out Boy. What's the difference between them and Blink 182, Good Charlotte, Sum 41, New Found Glory and Simple Plan? Oh, yeah - there is none. I guess the reason for the Alternative format declining in popularity can be attributed to two factors: 1). Too many bands that play it safe earning the "Alternative" classification. 2). The fact that you've pretty much heard everything on the Alternative format before - neo-new wave, pop/punk and post-grunge make up the bulk of Alternative playlists (both Current and Classic). I've always thought of Alternative as "outside the box" or "against the grain" - however, mainstream America disagrees and that type of music doesn't move too many units, and when it does, it actually becomes "the grain" at that point. Alternative could be considered "rock that doesn't conform to arena rock stereotypes" - but then again, what do you call Nickelback, 3 Doors Down, and Puddle Of Mudd? I guess it can be said that the term "Alternative" has been rendered meaningless. Blame it on the format becoming too commercialized for its own good</P>
> In truth the station you suggest is not an alternative
> station it is a classic alternative station. why? mostly
> because most of the bands that you've brought up either are
> not making music currently or the music that they are making
> isnt really selling anymore.
You've got a point. I suppose bands such as Nine Inch Nails, Franz Ferdinand, The Killers, Bloc Party, Arctic Monkeys, Kasabian, heck, even Green Day and Weezer (despite being totally commercial) have enough long-term visibility and credibility to receive airplay as well. A good amount of currents I think would be between 45 and 60.</P>
As mentioned in another post, NYC has never had a legitimate Alternative format. Remember that K-Rock grew out of what was originally a Classic Rock station, and counted Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains and the like as its core artists (artists that are now Mainstream / Active Rock staples) - even back then you seldom (if ever) heard anything by the Cure, Depeche Mode, the Smiths, the Replacements, Joy Division and other '80s Alternative acts. They even went so far as to incorporate "retro rock" (think Rush, Hendrix, Zeppelin, etc.) into their format around 1997 or so, which further indicates that K-Rock could never be considered an Alternative station in the true sense of the word. Heck, even Z-100 during their Alternative/CHR incarnation was closer to a real Alternative than K-Rock was.</P>
There's this overwhelming belief that an Alternative Rock station can't work in NYC. That may be true, but it would have worked at one time - talk to a few random people in the city and you'll be surprised at how many own satellite radios. These are the people that would have been listening to a real FM Alternative if one had been attempted, but it never was. K-Rock was convinced that its true bread and butter was the mook nation, but after a brief period of prosperity they continued to go downhill. Instead of going in the more unique direction, they decided to challenge Q 104.3 by appealing to the older mooks out there with the "Great Rock Period" format, and there was little surprise that they fell flat on their faces. Now once again they're going after the frat boys with a format that already flopped once in their hands. Without a Howard Stern or an Opie & Anthony to carry it, Free-FM is a sinking ship and I think CBS/Infinity would be wise to cut their losses. Where to go from here? Why not try something that hasn't been attempted yet - a REAL Alternative station. Appeal to a wide ranging group with a catalog as deep as Jack-FM, without going too commercial. Nah, it will never happen - God forbid CBS/Infinity should try something that may alienate those sacred beer companies and their beloved frat boys.</P>
Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / KROQ
> Of the station's you point to here, kroq is the only one
> that is successful and they are in SOME opinions (you hear
> people in LA bitch about them all the time) a corproate.
> tightly rotated station too.... but they're Kroq, they will
> always be great if you ask me. Also wherever you are if
> you're in that market you probably take the hometown station
> for granted which would explain those who bash kroq for
> those reasons. WFNX and WEQX HAVE NO RATINGS, NONE, ZERO.
> NO listeners to speak of. The only reason that they still
> exist is that they are both mom and pop operations that are
> owned by an individual. That could not happen in New York
> because of what it would cost to buy a station in a market
> that big so only corproatations can afford to operate in a
> markett of that size.maybe Mike Bloomberg or Donald Trump
> would purchase a station in new York but would you really
> want to hear trump radio?. FNX and EQX, They dont pay anyone
> anything to speak of and are staffed by people who are
> hungry to break into radio and mostly sound it so they do
> make money because their costs are so minimal. WFNX is a
> vehicle to promote the Boston Phoenix newspaper, and wbcn
> has played nickleback for years. So again I have to say
> that I dont think your idea that perfect alternative station
> would work in new york even though I respect your ideas.
>
KROQ is at least an Alternative station. Sure, it may be a little safe, but at least you're not going to see them playing Guns N' Roses and Aerosmith while still marketing themselves as Alternative, like K-Rock in NYC did. This is a station that knows what its audience wants to hear, and that is why it has been around for so long.</P>
In my opinion, it is because KROQ is the long-established Modern Rock leader in L.A. that Indie 103.1 struggles the way it does. There are markets out there that a station like Indie (or even KROQ) would be more than welcome, and would bring in very respectable ratings. As stated before, NYC never had a legitimate Alternative. And then there's Philadelphia - Y-100 was close, but no cigar ... a little too much trend-hopping and perhaps a little too current-intensive (more in terms of repetition than variety), as well as too much pandering to the mook nation at other times (they even played Load-era Metallica!). Indie and KROQ are examples of Alternative stations executed the right way - they don't insult the listener by taking liberties with the format, and that is why they (well, KROQ at least) are successful. I believe that K-Rock would be thriving today if it was organized like these stations as opposed to the muddled mess that it was throughout its entire run as an "Alternative" station.</P>
> Of the station's you point to here, kroq is the only one
> that is successful and they are in SOME opinions (you hear
> people in LA bitch about them all the time) a corproate.
> tightly rotated station too.... but they're Kroq, they will
> always be great if you ask me. Also wherever you are if
> you're in that market you probably take the hometown station
> for granted which would explain those who bash kroq for
> those reasons. WFNX and WEQX HAVE NO RATINGS, NONE, ZERO.
> NO listeners to speak of. The only reason that they still
> exist is that they are both mom and pop operations that are
> owned by an individual. That could not happen in New York
> because of what it would cost to buy a station in a market
> that big so only corproatations can afford to operate in a
> markett of that size.maybe Mike Bloomberg or Donald Trump
> would purchase a station in new York but would you really
> want to hear trump radio?. FNX and EQX, They dont pay anyone
> anything to speak of and are staffed by people who are
> hungry to break into radio and mostly sound it so they do
> make money because their costs are so minimal. WFNX is a
> vehicle to promote the Boston Phoenix newspaper, and wbcn
> has played nickleback for years. So again I have to say
> that I dont think your idea that perfect alternative station
> would work in new york even though I respect your ideas.
>
KROQ is at least an Alternative station. Sure, it may be a little safe, but at least you're not going to see them playing Guns N' Roses and Aerosmith while still marketing themselves as Alternative, like K-Rock in NYC did. This is a station that knows what its audience wants to hear, and that is why it has been around for so long.</P>
In my opinion, it is because KROQ is the long-established Modern Rock leader in L.A. that Indie 103.1 struggles the way it does. There are markets out there that a station like Indie (or even KROQ) would be more than welcome, and would bring in very respectable ratings. As stated before, NYC never had a legitimate Alternative. And then there's Philadelphia - Y-100 was close, but no cigar ... a little too much trend-hopping and perhaps a little too current-intensive (more in terms of repetition than variety), as well as too much pandering to the mook nation at other times (they even played Load-era Metallica!). Indie and KROQ are examples of Alternative stations executed the right way - they don't insult the listener by taking liberties with the format, and that is why they (well, KROQ at least) are successful. I believe that K-Rock would be thriving today if it was organized like these stations as opposed to the muddled mess that it was throughout its entire run as an "Alternative" station.</P>
Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / Nickelback on Alternative
Remember Indie 103.1 does not cover all or even most of the L.A. market. It would be unfair to compare their ratings to KROQ. It would be like saying WLIR wasn't successful because they didn't beat WNEW in 1983.
Indie 103.1 is by far the best commercial rock station in the country.
Remember Indie 103.1 does not cover all or even most of the L.A. market. It would be unfair to compare their ratings to KROQ. It would be like saying WLIR wasn't successful because they didn't beat WNEW in 1983.
Indie 103.1 is by far the best commercial rock station in the country.
F
Frish
Guest
Re: A K-Rock by any other name.... / KROQ
> > Of the station's you point to here, kroq is the only one
> > that is successful and they are in SOME opinions (you hear
>
> > people in LA bitch about them all the time) a corproate.
> > tightly rotated station too.... but they're Kroq, they
> will
> > always be great if you ask me. Also wherever you are if
> > you're in that market you probably take the hometown
> station
> > for granted which would explain those who bash kroq for
> > those reasons. WFNX and WEQX HAVE NO RATINGS, NONE, ZERO.
>
> > NO listeners to speak of. The only reason that they still
> > exist is that they are both mom and pop operations that
> are
> > owned by an individual. That could not happen in New York
> > because of what it would cost to buy a station in a market
>
> > that big so only corproatations can afford to operate in
> a
> > markett of that size.maybe Mike Bloomberg or Donald Trump
> > would purchase a station in new York but would you really
> > want to hear trump radio?. FNX and EQX, They dont pay
> anyone
> > anything to speak of and are staffed by people who are
> > hungry to break into radio and mostly sound it so they do
> > make money because their costs are so minimal. WFNX is a
> > vehicle to promote the Boston Phoenix newspaper, and wbcn
> > has played nickleback for years. So again I have to say
> > that I dont think your idea that perfect alternative
> station
> > would work in new york even though I respect your ideas.
> >
> KROQ is at least an Alternative station. Sure, it may be a
> little safe, but at least you're not going to see them
> playing Guns N' Roses and Aerosmith while still marketing
> themselves as Alternative, like K-Rock in NYC did. This is
> a station that knows what its audience wants to hear, and
> that is why it has been around for so long. In my opinion,
> it is because KROQ is the long-established Modern Rock
> leader in L.A. that Indie 103.1 struggles the way it does.
> There are markets out there that a station like Indie (or
> even KROQ) would be more than welcome, and would bring in
> very respectable ratings. As stated before, NYC never had a
> legitimate Alternative. And then there's Philadelphia -
> Y-100 was close, but no cigar ... a little too much
> trend-hopping and perhaps a little too current-intensive
> (more in terms of repetition than variety), as well as too
> much pandering to the mook nation at other times (they even
> played Load-era Metallica!). Indie and KROQ are examples of
> Alternative stations executed the right way - they don't
> insult the listener by taking liberties with the format, and
> that is why they (well, KROQ at least) are successful. I
> believe that K-Rock would be thriving today if it was
> organized like these stations as opposed to the muddled mess
> that it was throughout its entire run as an "Alternative"
> station.
>
However Kroq DOES still play metallica so what is the difference? they also play the korn's of te world which have found their way into the alternative playlists while they themselves pronounce themselves as "metal". Also remember that when Krock NY signed on one of the criticisms of it was that it was essentially a carbon copy of kroq and "Kroq doesnt work in New York" etc. In fairness kroq LA is a great station but tthey're also successful because they are the only game in town, they are THE rock station in Los Angeles. There is no active rock there and has not been since the late 80's, to early 90's there is no m ainstream aor there, there were two classic rock stations now there is one and a Jack, kroq is THE current based rock station so as good as they are they do kind of benefit from a win by default. They dont call themselves alternative for this very reason they are "La and Orange county's NEW ROCK" so that allows them to play certain things under that umbrella. Many also believe that the main reason for their success is no competition, Y107 failed but they also had signal problems, Indie 103 has signal problems but they're nowhere near mainstream enough to really make a dent in kroq, many say if there were an active trock station or a mainstream aor in LA kroq would see a substantial drop in their numbers but until clear channel or someone tries it we'l never know. Los Angeles is also more of a rock community too, more bands are spawned there so there is also more of an audience to support an alternative station. Im not tring to poke holes in your beliefs I'm with you and would love to have alternative rock back in New York, just like the country listeners (all 8 of them,,,lol) would love a country station!.
> > Of the station's you point to here, kroq is the only one
> > that is successful and they are in SOME opinions (you hear
>
> > people in LA bitch about them all the time) a corproate.
> > tightly rotated station too.... but they're Kroq, they
> will
> > always be great if you ask me. Also wherever you are if
> > you're in that market you probably take the hometown
> station
> > for granted which would explain those who bash kroq for
> > those reasons. WFNX and WEQX HAVE NO RATINGS, NONE, ZERO.
>
> > NO listeners to speak of. The only reason that they still
> > exist is that they are both mom and pop operations that
> are
> > owned by an individual. That could not happen in New York
> > because of what it would cost to buy a station in a market
>
> > that big so only corproatations can afford to operate in
> a
> > markett of that size.maybe Mike Bloomberg or Donald Trump
> > would purchase a station in new York but would you really
> > want to hear trump radio?. FNX and EQX, They dont pay
> anyone
> > anything to speak of and are staffed by people who are
> > hungry to break into radio and mostly sound it so they do
> > make money because their costs are so minimal. WFNX is a
> > vehicle to promote the Boston Phoenix newspaper, and wbcn
> > has played nickleback for years. So again I have to say
> > that I dont think your idea that perfect alternative
> station
> > would work in new york even though I respect your ideas.
> >
> KROQ is at least an Alternative station. Sure, it may be a
> little safe, but at least you're not going to see them
> playing Guns N' Roses and Aerosmith while still marketing
> themselves as Alternative, like K-Rock in NYC did. This is
> a station that knows what its audience wants to hear, and
> that is why it has been around for so long. In my opinion,
> it is because KROQ is the long-established Modern Rock
> leader in L.A. that Indie 103.1 struggles the way it does.
> There are markets out there that a station like Indie (or
> even KROQ) would be more than welcome, and would bring in
> very respectable ratings. As stated before, NYC never had a
> legitimate Alternative. And then there's Philadelphia -
> Y-100 was close, but no cigar ... a little too much
> trend-hopping and perhaps a little too current-intensive
> (more in terms of repetition than variety), as well as too
> much pandering to the mook nation at other times (they even
> played Load-era Metallica!). Indie and KROQ are examples of
> Alternative stations executed the right way - they don't
> insult the listener by taking liberties with the format, and
> that is why they (well, KROQ at least) are successful. I
> believe that K-Rock would be thriving today if it was
> organized like these stations as opposed to the muddled mess
> that it was throughout its entire run as an "Alternative"
> station.
>
However Kroq DOES still play metallica so what is the difference? they also play the korn's of te world which have found their way into the alternative playlists while they themselves pronounce themselves as "metal". Also remember that when Krock NY signed on one of the criticisms of it was that it was essentially a carbon copy of kroq and "Kroq doesnt work in New York" etc. In fairness kroq LA is a great station but tthey're also successful because they are the only game in town, they are THE rock station in Los Angeles. There is no active rock there and has not been since the late 80's, to early 90's there is no m ainstream aor there, there were two classic rock stations now there is one and a Jack, kroq is THE current based rock station so as good as they are they do kind of benefit from a win by default. They dont call themselves alternative for this very reason they are "La and Orange county's NEW ROCK" so that allows them to play certain things under that umbrella. Many also believe that the main reason for their success is no competition, Y107 failed but they also had signal problems, Indie 103 has signal problems but they're nowhere near mainstream enough to really make a dent in kroq, many say if there were an active trock station or a mainstream aor in LA kroq would see a substantial drop in their numbers but until clear channel or someone tries it we'l never know. Los Angeles is also more of a rock community too, more bands are spawned there so there is also more of an audience to support an alternative station. Im not tring to poke holes in your beliefs I'm with you and would love to have alternative rock back in New York, just like the country listeners (all 8 of them,,,lol) would love a country station!.
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