A NEW LOW FOR RUSH LIMBAUGH

[Radio_Realist]

If you were GM of the affiliate station, how would YOU feel?

Perhaps like the operator of a radio discussion forum seeing constant plugs for public appearances at other venues in his message boards.

 

[Holland Cooke]

Guess he/she told ME, eh?

Is THAT your answer?
Or aren't you here to contribute to the conversation?
Just tossing lit matches?

Your 2177 posts dwarf my mere 300-something.

Maybe YOU never leave the house.
After a draining two-week radio road trip, I'm green-with-envy.
(And working the washer/dryer like a one-armed bandit.)

Your presence here might be recreational.
I'm actually making-a-living having-this-conversation.

So (turning to the camera), ANYONE ELSE?

Imagine that you're the GM of a Limbaugh affiliate...and, as El Rushbo comes on after the commercial you just sold a local car dealer...Rush is talking about a parody spot that just played on his paid-subscription stream while that pesky car dealer spot ran. How would YOU feel?

A "radio realist" in THAT position would have an issue.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

I guess the same can be said of Sean Hannity. On his ABC radio show he continually promotes his Fox TV show, yet when I've watched Hannity on Fox, I've not heard him promote his ABC radio show. I'd think that ABC radio and their affiliates also would not like that either.

Glenn Beck also does this on his radio show, promotes his CNN TV show.

However, I do agree that Rush shouldn't be pushing the radio listeners to listen on his paid web site while his on air radio show is on. One would think that the contract wouldn't allow this. Or maybe it's time when contract renewal comes up with Rush that it become a major issue, especially as those affilitates do paid a pretty heavy fee to carry his on air show. Of course these stations may have to bite the bullet and agree to Rush's terms or lose the show. However, if enough stations stuck to their guns on this issue and did drop his show, then my guess is Rush would have to reconsider his position. Will those stations risk a competitor picking up Rush's show when they drop it to make their point? Probably not for most stations.

Remember Limbaugh believes that whatever the market will bear is acceptable, so as long as the stations put up with this situation he's going to take full advantage of it. When it starts costing him enough money as in losing affiliates in major markets or in enough of the medium markets, and ad revenue starts slipping significantly then you'll get his attention. As Rush always says, follow the money.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Imagine that you're the GM of a Limbaugh affiliate...and, as El Rushbo comes on after the commercial you just sold a local car dealer...Rush is talking about a parody spot that just played on his paid-subscription stream while that pesky car dealer spot ran. How would YOU feel?

If I were the GM of a Limbaugh affiliate, and what you describe happened, I don't think I'd feel much of anything. If I did, I'd do my best to ignore any feelings, as I don't think anyone makes it to being GM of a radio station by being guided by feelings. I think one gets to that position by learning to be guided by one's thoughts.

And my thoughts would be on such things as how many of my Rush listeners are listening from a static location, such as their home or office, and how many were only able to listen to Rush in their cars as they ran sales calls, or otherwise were driving around. And I'd want to know the specific information for my market, not vague general data from markets different from mine.

I'd want specific information on how many listeners Rush was siphoning away from my station, in my market, and how many of his internet listeners represent people who aren't in a position to listen to the radio live from noon to 3:00 PM EST anyway. In other words, listeners I couldn't capture anyway. The opinions of people I respect who have looked at who opts for subscription-based internet streaming audio over free broadcast radio tell me that such people tend to be techno-fans who'll jump on any new technology for its own sake, regardless. I'd lose those people from my audience sooner or later anyway, whether Rush promotes his subscription stream service or not.

And, I'd take a close look at my sales mix during the noon to 3:00 PM EST slot, and how much of it was agencies buys based on raw Arbitron numbers, and how much of it was local businesses who bought based on how good my staff of sales reps were. The thing is, when I was a marketing consultant hired by local car dealers, raw Arbitron numbers weren't what mattered. What mattered were how many people walked into the dealership and asked about the specific offer that was only made on Rush's show, compared to how many asked about the specific offers made on other shows. It didn't matter how high a station's Arbitron ratings were, what mattered was how much provable and measurable results we got from each station that we tested. And those stations that tested high got repeat orders, and those that tested poorly didn't.

The results of those tests confirmed what other research proved, which was that no matter how many people had their radios tuned to any music format station, it was usually on as background noise, and commercial messages seldom were heard. But people listen to talk radio, and so they actually hear the commercials.

In any case, my reactions wouldn't be based on feelings or emotions. And when someone asks about feelings, as if they are what should influence business decisions, it's a little hard to take the person asking the question seriously.

Remember Limbaugh believes that whatever the market will bear is acceptable, so as long as the stations put up with this situation he's going to take full advantage of it.

That's another important consideration. If I were a station GM in that position, my thinking would also have to include what you said about a competitor picking Limbaugh up if I dropped him. Even if his plugging his webcasts costs me a fraction of a point of listeners, losing him to a competitor would cost a hell of a lot more.

 

[Holland Cooke]

As Keanu Reeves movie characters often whisper, in awe: "Wooo..."

my reactions wouldn't be based on feelings or emotions.

I can tell.

such people tend to be techno-fans who'll jump on any new technology for its own sake, regardless. I'd lose those people from my audience sooner or later anyway, whether Rush promotes his subscription stream service or not.

This just in:
“The number of those who say they have listened to a radio station over the Internet has almost doubled over the past 12 months.”
Source: recently-released American Media Services Radio Index

when someone asks about feelings, as if they are what should influence business decisions, it's a little hard to take the person asking the question seriously.

"Wooo..."

But while we've got you here, help us all.
What's the truth about the undercoating?
It's a dealer con, right?

 

[nhradiochild]

Glenn Beck also does this on his radio show, promotes his CNN TV show.

However, Glenn Beck also promotes his radio show on his CNN show, and alternates between affiliate stations so they get a plug.

In response to the rest of conversation forward of the quoted post, I'm going to say feelings sometimes give way to fact. I think feelings are what inspires the thought process and in turn does everything that Radio Realist mentioned. While one doesn't or shouldn't make a decision based only on a feeling, the "feeling" is what started the ball rolling, isn't it?

So, who's the first to wish to create the "feeling" they are bypassing a terrestrial station for an internet one?

 

[Radio_Realist]

This just in:
“The number of those who say they have listened to a radio station over the Internet has almost doubled over the past 12 months.”
Source: recently-released American Media Services Radio Index

Do you have that broken down into relevant data? Or is it just a tid bit of raw information?

Is that an increase of 3 people to 5? That's "almost doubled"?

How of those who say they have listened to a radio station over the internet indicated that they make a regular, routine habit of listening to the radio over the internet instead of by using a radio? How many of them use internet radio only to listen to radio station other than the ones they can pick up using a regular radio? How many of them listen to a terrestrial radio in their cars, then switch to internet radio to continue listening to the same favorite station at work instead of their workplace's choice of Muzak? How many tuned in to internet radio to check it out and decided they didn't like it?

How many tune in to their station's internet feed because their normal programming was pre-empted? If I was a little more motivated, I might look up how many people in Pittsburgh listen to New-Talk 104.7 on the internet when Rush, Hannity, or Savage are pre-empted for Pirate baseball. How much of Rush's plugs for his streaming audio subscription feeds are reactions to his show being pre-empted for baseball?

What's the truth about the undercoating?

It's an aspect of the business. It's something sold to boost profits.

I think feelings are what inspires the thought process and in turn does everything that Radio Realist mentioned. While one doesn't or shouldn't make a decision based only on a feeling, the "feeling" is what started the ball rolling, isn't it?

I would think that someone who considers posting in here part of his earning a living would be more concerned with the actual decision making process, not the mere spark that starts it, wouldn't you?

So, who's the first to wish to create the "feeling" they are bypassing a terrestrial station for an internet one?

News-talk 104.7, a Clear Channel station in Pittsburgh, is aggressively promoting their internet stream as the place to hear their talk hosts when they carry Pirate baseball games. I suppose they "feel" that getting listeners in the habit of listening over the internet won't hurt them any.

The only way that I'd know if other stations had already been doing that would be if I listened to out-of-market stations on the internet myself. And I don't.

 

[Faraway]

Re: Guess he/she told ME, eh?

Imagine that you're the GM of a Limbaugh affiliate...and, as El Rushbo comes on after the commercial you just sold a local car dealer...Rush is talking about a parody spot that just played on his paid-subscription stream while that pesky car dealer spot ran. How would YOU feel?

To some extent, I am surprised this hasn't become a bigger issue. As a news/talk PD I HATE it when Rush et al are promoting their streaming. They are telling their fans "Hey, you don't have to wait to hear it on this scratchy AM station. You can hear me anytime you want." The hosts will say the are only promoting a convenient back-up, but I can tell you that listeners are looking at it as much more. From a business standpoint, I get the hosts' and syndicator's desire to increase revenue streams (pun only partially intented), but I see this as a potential flashpoint, especially since some stations pay big fees for the right to stream some of these shows.

Don't get me wrong. Rush is still #1. But this bothers me even more than his saying, as he breaks away at the top of the hour for news, 'Stay tuned for 6 minutes of lies and distortions but I'll be back after that.'

 

[Holland Cooke]

RE "I suppose..."

Do you have that broken down into relevant data? Or is it just a tid bit of raw information? Is that an increase of 3 people to 5? That's "almost doubled"?

Google it.
Read also: http://www.edisonresearch.com/home/archives/Infinite Dial 2007_Report.pdf
If the showroom is busy, just read Key Findings on pages 5-7.
This newfangled stuff is catching-on LOTS faster than UHF TV in the early 50s.
As late as the early 60s, radio owners were still giving away FMs.
WHUR/Washington was WTOP-FM, until Post-Newsweek thought of FM the way you think of streaming.

With new media adoption graphs SUCH steep slopes, these are risky times to scoff.
Last month, Apple sold iPod #100 million.
Last week, in Las Vegas, NAB President David Rehr told us:
“’Internet radio’ sounds like the future. ‘Wireless’ sounds like the future. ‘High def’ sounds like the future. YouTube, Google, iBiquity sound like the future. What does 'free over-the-air broadcasting' sound like? I think you know.” And he crowed that “we were ‘wireless’ before wireless was hot!”

How of those who say they have listened to a radio station over the internet indicated that they make a regular, routine habit of listening to the radio over the internet instead of by using a radio? How many of them use internet radio only to listen to radio station other than the ones they can pick up using a regular radio? How many of them listen to a terrestrial radio in their cars, then switch to internet radio to continue listening to the same favorite station at work instead of their workplace's choice of Muzak? How many tuned in to internet radio to check it out and decided they didn't like it?

I suspect that you mean "How many of those..."

If you actually worked in radio, you'd be focused on this.
Since you don't, you can pepperoni-slice the what-ifs all day.

And if you worked in radio, you'd be up-to-speed on Arbitron's Portable People Meter implementation. So you'd know about the Muzak, which now competes with radio in Philadelphia and Houston-Galveston, the first in-tab PPM markets. ANY encoded audio will be measured on-a-level-playing-field-with AM/FM listening. Streaming, TV, "Attention K-Mart Shoppers," ANY streaming audio. Next stop: Noo Yawk (http://arbitron.com/portable_people_meters/ppm_rollout.htm)

How many tune in to their station's internet feed because their normal programming was pre-empted?

AN ARMY, when a Yankees game comes on WCBS, and NewsRadio programming continues online.

Remember when you wouldn't get further-than-the-driveway if you left the house without ONE THING?
You car keys.

Now, you'll turn-the-car-around if you forget something else.
What-we-used-to-call a cell phone.
This device is:
1. a jukebox ("A THOUSAND SONGS ON YOUR PHONE");
2. a still camera;
3. a video camera (as Michael Richards found out);
4. live Internet;
5. a little TV in your pocket, with networks doing special phone-size feeds;
6. oh yeah, it'll also make a phone call.

The only thing it DOESN'T do?
AM/FM radio.

Remember the old radio station weatherphone?
It might've been an answering machine in a closet, updated a couple times a day.
Fast-forward to present day.
Smart stations are inviting listeners to press 3 for this, press 4 for that.
Beause if they don't, they're MIA from "the new transistor radio."

As I said -- and our industry's top spokesman urged at last week's convention -- scoff at new-tech at your own risk. Although if you don't actually DO THIS for a living, you're not at-risk; and you can enjoy the luxury of anonymous pondering.

If I was a little more motivated...
I think...
I would think...
I suppose...
...if I listened to out-of-market stations on the internet myself. And I don't.

Back to the topic-at-hand, the thread subject-changed: Limbaugh's hate speech adds nothing.

Or as another industry leader offered last week:
“[Advertisers are] reading about Imus, or that radio is a beleaguered industry, and that's not the kind of comment or positioning that we need.”
Radio Advertising Bureau President/CEO Jeff Haley, in his annual “State of Radio Sales” presentation at NAB2007.

HC
www.HollandCooke.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Bobc0_8ok

 

[Holland Cooke]

RE "I am surprised this hasn't become a bigger issue."

As a news/talk PD I HATE it when Rush et al are promoting their streaming. They are telling their fans "Hey, you don't have to wait to hear it on this scratchy AM station. You can hear me anytime you want."

You're not alone.

LOCAL STATIONS offering listeners an-alternate-path-to-the-same-programming conveniences them. A VENDOR offering listeners something-else-entirely-to-listen-to kidnaps them.

If you're a local advertiser -- a car dealer, for instance -- who just bought-into the station's Limbaugh pitch, and Limbaugh's using the station to show listeners a side door to his show, around your commercials, you're wondering how much undercoating YOU'LL be selling.

Don't get me wrong. Rush is still #1. But this bothers me even more than his saying, as he breaks away at the top of the hour for news, 'Stay tuned for 6 minutes of lies and distortions but I'll be back after that.'

Don't get ME wrong. Buffoon-though-I-find-Limbaugh-to-be, and other-than this bite-the-hand-that-feeds-him arrogance, I have two playbooks. If my client is the affiliate, Rush is the biggest star in talk radio.

But he, not I, has to look-in-the-mirror after that crack about the Virginia Tech shooter.

 

[nhradiochild]

So, who's the first to wish to create the "feeling" they are bypassing a terrestrial station for an internet one?

News-talk 104.7, a Clear Channel station in Pittsburgh, is aggressively promoting their internet stream as the place to hear their talk hosts when they carry Pirate baseball games. I suppose they "feel" that getting listeners in the habit of listening over the internet won't hurt them any.

The only way that I'd know if other stations had already been doing that would be if I listened to out-of-market stations on the internet myself. And I don't.

Ummm, I wasn't referring to individual stations making a virtual simulcast of their programming online, as I believe the issue was bypassing the commercial radio station altogether in favor of a source that may cramp sales of the affiliate. If the station is able to stream its own content from start to finish, such as WNTK does, then they really don't have a problem, outside of being unable to air "agency" ads.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Although if you don't actually DO THIS for a living, you're not at-risk; and you can enjoy the luxury of anonymous pondering.

Actually, what I do for a living is (among other things) to advise clients on which media are the best choices for them to use to sell their products. By way of comparison, you're like someone who works for the railroad, so he sees himself as being in the railroad business. I'm more like the freight expediter who doesn't care whether something is shipped by train, plane, boat, truck or mule team as long as it gets to where it needs to be. So I work with all media, radio included.

Maybe radio wouldn't be in such trouble if the people that ran radio stations recognized that they are in the mass communications business, not just the radio business, and looked to create more synergy between radio and the newer media instead of seeing the new media as competition.

 

[Holland Cooke]

So then you're an All-Media_Realist

BE CAREFUL.
Someone will flame you for citing your credentials here.

Back to moving-the-freight,
HC
www.GetOnTheNet.com

 

[nhradiochild]

Get on the Net...

That's a mighty convincing advertisement... or should I say "marketing scheme" you got there, Holland. I'm intrigued... very.

Huh, go figure. Guy sounds like he knows what he's talking about... hmm maybe he does? ;D

 

[Radioboy989]

How would I feel as an affiliate GM?

Because I am a logical guy, at least I aspire to it, as the affiliate GM I would figure that Limbaugh understands that modern radio management will dump his arse in a heartbeat, we all know it...even Imus.

The loyalty between a station and it's talent no longer exists and therefore the inverse. I watched Letterman lampoon NBC almost nightly and they fought like dogs to keep him but ONLY as they wanted him, so he accepted the CBS offer. Saturday night live has existed even in it's current pitiful state as a successful land of parody, even when the show, the network, the guests, the sponsors were targets.

By telling people where ELSE he can be found, Limbaugh assures HIS survival even if the network pulls out.
With 20million cume per week and more money in his checking account than I will see in my lifetime, I'm going to give the man the benefit of the doubt when it comes to survival and success in radio. All around him may fall but he is doing what he believes will assure that he continues to stand for as long as he cares to bd in the game.

 

[evnlee]

The loyalty between a station and it's talent no longer exists and therefore the inverse. I watched Letterman lampoon NBC almost nightly and they fought like dogs to keep him but ONLY as they wanted him, so he accepted the CBS offer. Saturday night live has existed even in it's current pitiful state as a successful land of parody, even when the show, the network, the guests, the sponsors were targets.

By telling people where ELSE he can be found, Limbaugh assures HIS survival even if the network pulls out.

With 20million cume per week and more money in his checking account than I will see in my lifetime, I'm going to give the man the benefit of the doubt when it comes to survival and success in radio. All around him may fall but he is doing what he believes will assure that he continues to stand for as long as he cares to bd in the game.

Radioboy, I think were on the same page, but I disagree with some statements.

Letterman did not lampoon NBC as much as he did thier sugardaddy, GE.

SNL's worst days were when Franken and co were biting the hand ('see 'lame-o with a limo') and you will also see the results of this strategy.

and as for Limbaugh knowing 'when it comes to survival and success in radio', that did not stop him from getting addicted to Oxycotin, blowing out his hearing ( I mean, cmon, he's a radio host ) and missing half a ratings book getting treatment. So , if he hadnt done that, I would give him a pass. He lost that 'benefit of my doubt' right then.

You know : eventually vinyl gave way to 8 tracks that gave way to cassettes that gave way to cd's and all these things were supposed to destroy or damage the music industry, but in reality it saved them. AM radio needs to harness the web, not fear it. But some lessons ( old dogs and all ) never get learned.

Anyways be sure to check me out at the milita compound, or catch my seminar at the local Waffle House for my lecture on 'scattering,smothering and covering your clients POS' and my link to my youtube site back when I used to hang out with strippers

 

[Holland Cooke]

eventually vinyl gave way to 8 tracks that gave way to cassettes that gave way to cd's and all these things were supposed to destroy or damage the music industry, but in reality it saved them. AM radio needs to harness the web, not fear it.

APPLAUSE
APPLAUSE
APPLAUSE

be sure to check me out at the milita compound, or catch my seminar at the local Waffle House for my lecture on 'scattering, smothering and covering your clients POS' and my link to my youtube site back when I used to hang out with strippers

http://www.hollandcooke.com/for-my-pals-at-radio-info.pdf
;D

 

[FTL_Ian]

Re: Guess he/she told ME, eh?

To some extent, I am surprised this hasn't become a bigger issue. As a news/talk PD I HATE it when Rush et al are promoting their streaming. They are telling their fans "Hey, you don't have to wait to hear it on this scratchy AM station. You can hear me anytime you want." The hosts will say the are only promoting a convenient back-up, but I can tell you that listeners are looking at it as much more. From a business standpoint, I get the hosts' and syndicator's desire to increase revenue streams (pun only partially intented), but I see this as a potential flashpoint, especially since some stations pay big fees for the right to stream some of these shows.

As the host of a show with a heavy Internet component, I'd like to point out that on my program the door swings both ways. Yes, we promote our streams on-air on a once per show basis, but we also promote local radio station affiliates to our Internet listeners. Our streaming and podcast listeners are encouraged to call their local talk station's Program Director and request Free Talk Live. As we add new affiliates, we announce every one via our listener updates e-mail list, and post it to the front page of the show's website.

We recently started selling an FTL-branded MP3 player in our store. When my store manager informed me that the MP3 players could have an FM tuner option, I immediately said yes. It adds three dollars per unit to our cost, but I think it's worth it to show support for radio. Unfortunately, an AM tuner was not an option. :'(

I like to think I'm doing my part to drive Internet listeners to AM/FM radio by providing unique content, and specifically instructing listeners to go to local radio to consume it, if available.

We had a listener call in from Indianapolis one night who indicated he was listening via our Internet stream. I asked him on the air why he was listening to the stream instead of WXNT, and he pointed out that he just couldn't tune it in inside his office. I then took the opportunity to remind our listeners that if there is a radio affiliate in their area, that it should be their primary source to listen to Free Talk Live.

Finally, unlike Rush we do not charge listeners for Internet streaming. Our streams exist simply for convenience, not directly increasing revenue. Hell, we even give away the web cam: http://cam.freetalklive.com ;D

 

[Holland Cooke]

You guys are THE MODEL!

Want to see a leading-edge Internet-and-radio model?
See-and-hear FreeTalkLive.com.
GREAT job engaging people online, and pointing them to the radio, and back and forth.

My beef with El Rushbo is that he's hijacking affiliates' listeners.
FreeTalkLive.com's online stuff ENGAGES them.

Never forget: Arbitron is a memory test.

 

[Al Johnson]

Re: You guys are THE MODEL!

My beef with El Rushbo is that he's hijacking affiliates' listeners.
FreeTalkLive.com's online stuff ENGAGES them.

Never forget: Arbitron is a memory test.

Problem is they are not "affiliates' listeners." They are Rush's listeners.

Rush brings listeners to affiliates; not the other way around. That's why they pay him (when other shows are free or will pay affiliates). That's why they agree to his commercial requirements (and make up his spots when the show is pre-empted).

Rush saved AM radio; AM radio did not save Rush.

This is why program directors (and the consultants who take their money) don't like drawing card personalities. That's why radio has spent the last five decades trying to minimize or elimate personalities (talk radio and morning drive being the only places personalities ever exist any more in radio).