a personal invitation.

[michael hagerty]

Oh yeah, Moondance still gets played on KRTH. I could never understand why. A low-charting song by a guy with a horrible voice---Go figure!

Because decades-old chart numbers are trumped by what listeners in auditorium testing say they want to hear now.

Michael, don't you think a KFXM listener will be more excited about hearing hundreds of obscure songs than a KRTH listener is excited about hearing My Girl or You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling for the 10,000th time in his life?

The only way to know that would be to ask them.

KRTH asks its listeners through quarterly auditorium testing and plays what the answers tell them. They're consistently getting high ratings and high billing as a result.

KFXM is flying blind. Chris is playing everything, and I'm sure he listens when someone calls or e-mails. But we all know that's not a lot of people and the calls aren't about a lot of songs. Most of the time, it's whatever record Chris thinks he should play next. And since he hasn't got the signal to show up in the Los Angeles ratings (which includes Palmdale/Lancaster), he has no way of knowing, other than the phone calls or e-mails, whether he's exciting his audience or not...or how many there are.

And again...at 47 minutes a day on average listening, the typical target KRTH listener has never listened long enough to burn on those songs. If they did, the test scores would show it, and those songs would be gone in a hurry (your examples of "My Girl" and "Lovin' Feeling" could use some updating, by the way. KRTH may still play them, but not to the extent they did in the Jay Coffey or Mike Phillips eras. The repeats now are more likely to be "Evil Ways" or "My Life".)

 

[davideduardo]

(Exaggeration for effect. You know my slogan for KRTH: "Songs we got sick of hearing when we were in high school.")

But when you conduct one on one interviews with listeners to that type of station, you get responses more like "Songs that remind me of my hight school years, which were the happiest years of my life."

Classic hits stations are not museums... they are slices of life that can be relived at the press of a button.

 

[michael hagerty]

Herb Alpert never had any hits at all.

The last time I can ever remember hearing a Herb Alpert song on KRTH, was back in the mid 1980's, during a #1 specialty weekend.

At the very least, "Rise" from 1979, or "Diamonds" from 1987 should be played.

According to Clear Channel, CBS, and others - acts like Connie Francis and Herb Alpert never existed.
Recently, a CBS station ran a special of the Top 50 artists of all time using Joel Whitburn as the source -
altered of course - who did they omit?
-Pat Boone, Connie Francis, Dionne Warwick, Janet Jackson, Olivia-Newton John, Ricky Nelson, Fats Domino, Barbara Streisand, The Miracles, and Bobby Vinton...typical.

And in that list, there's one name that would keep me from immediately jumping to a conclusion about the reason behind the omissions.

Janet Jackson.

My bad, they did play her. All artists only got one song "representative" of them. Naturally, hers was "When I think of You". And I doubt they test her other stuff ... it's "too urban : "

According to whom?

And what exactly is "too urban" in a culturally diverse city, anyway?

 

[Biondi4Mayor]

Herb Alpert never had any hits at all.

The last time I can ever remember hearing a Herb Alpert song on KRTH, was back in the mid 1980's, during a #1 specialty weekend.

At the very least, "Rise" from 1979, or "Diamonds" from 1987 should be played.

According to Clear Channel, CBS, and others - acts like Connie Francis and Herb Alpert never existed.
Recently, a CBS station ran a special of the Top 50 artists of all time using Joel Whitburn as the source -
altered of course - who did they omit?
-Pat Boone, Connie Francis, Dionne Warwick, Janet Jackson, Olivia-Newton John, Ricky Nelson, Fats Domino, Barbara Streisand, The Miracles, and Bobby Vinton...typical.

And in that list, there's one name that would keep me from immediately jumping to a conclusion about the reason behind the omissions.

Janet Jackson.

My bad, they did play her. All artists only got one song "representative" of them. Naturally, hers was "When I think of You". And I doubt they test her other stuff ... it's "too urban : "

According to whom?

And what exactly is "too urban" in a culturally diverse city, anyway?

Not LA related...check inbox.

 

[oldies76]

KRTH may still play them, but not to the extent they did in the Jay Coffey or Mike Phillips eras. The repeats now are more likely to be "Evil Ways" or "My Life".)

Aahh, please don't take us back to that time for KRTH...one of the worst periods for the station. Too bad Radio Info didn't have radio discussions back then or it really would have lit up!

"Evil ways" does get played a lot these days, but I actually enjoy that one. More catchy and upbeat than "My Girl" or "Unchained Melody".

1984-86 Bob Hamilton programming, it's what got me into the music, such a great time for radio.

 

[oldies76]

But when you conduct one on one interviews with listeners to that type of station, you get responses more like "Songs that remind me of my hight school years, which were the happiest years of my life."

True....but for the class of 1971, "Maggie May" and "Brown Sugar" weren't the only songs they remembered from their high school dance.

 

[davideduardo]

But when you conduct one on one interviews with listeners to that type of station, you get responses more like "Songs that remind me of my hight school years, which were the happiest years of my life."

True....but for the class of 1971, "Maggie May" and "Brown Sugar" weren't the only songs they remembered from their high school dance.

The Class of 71 (Wasn't that a movie?) consists of people who are now 60. Radio can not be in the business of caring what they want.

 

[davideduardo]

1984-86 Bob Hamilton programming, it's what got me into the music, such a great time for radio.

That's going on 30 years ago. Rock 'n roll was only about 30 years old, and "oldies" meant songs that were about 15 to 25 years old.

You have to realize that stations today want the same audience they had then. Not the same people, but the same audience... 25-54!

With all the discussion of playing songs that charted in the 60s, and dropping in a low-testing song a couple of times an hour, you are defeating your goal if your intent is to shed light on possible programming opportunities.

This is why: if anyone from a station of significance is reading this, the constant suggestions of playing known, recognized and non-viable stiffs will have driven those people off and, if anything, convinced them even more that they should keep shortening the list.

The moaning and whining is, in essence, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[oldies76]

The Class of 71 (Wasn't that a movie?) consists of people who are now 60. Radio can not be in the business of caring what they want.

My bad...KRTH does not cater to 55+, so the class of 1981 would be more content to anything other than "Jessie's Girl" or "Don't Stop Believing". I'm sure they danced to a hell of a lot more tunes than that.

 

[radio124]

Herb Alpert never had any hits at all.

The last time I can ever remember hearing a Herb Alpert song on KRTH, was back in the mid 1980's, during a #1 specialty weekend.

At the very least, "Rise" from 1979, or "Diamonds" from 1987 should be played.

Actually, KRTH did play a Herb Alpert song as recently as 2008. During the Labor Day Z to A special the very first song played was Zorba the Greek.

 

[michael hagerty]

And please understand, I've listened to KFXM. I enjoy it personally. I respect Chris Compton for what is clearly a labor of love.

But as to the viability of it in a competitive, commercial situation...or to suggest that it is more in touch with listeners than KRTH...it's just not.

Very debatable......I'll just leave it as such.

The only reason to leave it would be if it weren't debatable.

Neither station has a consultant telling it what to play.

KRTH's playlist is based entirely on statistically sound audience research.

KFXM's entire playlist is what one guy thought it should be, but he'll gladly take requests or listen to complaints.

KRTH's success at being responsive to its audience can be measured monthly in the PPMs.

KFXM isn't rated and thus it can't be measured. That also means it has no way of gauging whether it is succeeding with the silent listener who doesn't call or write, but votes with their presets.

So, again...the slogan is equally true for KRTH and KFXM, but the second part is only demonstrably true for KRTH.

 

[michael hagerty]

I know, I know---the average listener who tunes in for only 30 minutes a day will never be aware that Happy Together and Brown Eyed Girl and Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye are getting played 200 times a week! But some of us non-average listeners are painfully aware and change the station as soon as we hear one of those songs begin.

But they will wonder as to why none of the other Turtles seven top 20 singles never get played on KRTH, especially listeners WHO LIKE the Turtles. ;D

I don't even know if KRTH plays "Domino" or "Moondance" from Van Morrison anymore.

KRTH did play "Moondance" last Monday. I haven't seen "Domino" yet, but that doesn't mean they aren't playing it.

Listeners who like the Turtles are likely to be out of the demo, given that it's been 43 years since the last hit. But "Happy Together" transcends that...and it wouldn't surprise me if KRTH plays "Elenore" and "She'd Rather Be With Me".

And confirmation...KRTH does indeed play "Elenore" and ""She'd Rather Be With Me".

 

[nmoore6676]

But when you conduct one on one interviews with listeners to that type of station, you get responses more like "Songs that remind me of my hight school years, which were the happiest years of my life."

True....but for the class of 1971, "Maggie May" and "Brown Sugar" weren't the only songs they remembered from their high school dance.

The Class of 71 (Wasn't that a movie?) consists of people who are now 60. Radio can not be in the business of caring what they want.

Radio should be, at least according to the papers they sign in order to secure their license, in the business of serving the community. I get that it is a business and i also understand trying to make a profit. But people don't just cease to exist after they pass the age of what some beady eyed guy in a New York ad agency has determined to be the age of profitability.

The other issue I have is that radio stations are all chasing after the same group of under educated drug addled listeners or at least they appear to be based on some of the stuff I hear today. There is a vast number of people who still know that there are two distinct words like axe and ask and where it is proper to use each.

When you have a market like LA where a large number of radio stations are owned by a couple of mega sized corporations it would appear that there is an opportunity to chase after some other audience. Not saying it has to be the "old farts" to borrow from Blake Shelton but some group other than the exact same limited segment of the overall populace.

But because they aren't I am scoring the internet to find stations like KFXM and WSWO from back where I had lived in Ohio. That is why I listen to the KD radio stations from New Mexico, on line plus KKGO-HD3 (classic country) and WBZI, Classic Country. Now the first two are non profit community radio (LPFM) and as such are noncommercial. But the rest are all for profit entities and there are many others out there that I know of, not all of them to my personal taste but probably somebody else. There must be room for all somehow and now with the internet you can get most of these out of town stations even on your smart phones as well as your home computer.

Sorry David but every time you bring up age like this you hit one of my nearly 70 year old nerves dead on.

 

[michael hagerty]

But when you conduct one on one interviews with listeners to that type of station, you get responses more like "Songs that remind me of my hight school years, which were the happiest years of my life."

True....but for the class of 1971, "Maggie May" and "Brown Sugar" weren't the only songs they remembered from their high school dance.

The Class of 71 (Wasn't that a movie?) consists of people who are now 60. Radio can not be in the business of caring what they want.

Radio should be, at least according to the papers they sign in order to secure their license, in the business of serving the community. I get that it is a business and i also understand trying to make a profit. But people don't just cease to exist after they pass the age of what some beady eyed guy in a New York ad agency has determined to be the age of profitability.

The other issue I have is that radio stations are all chasing after the same group of under educated drug addled listeners or at least they appear to be based on some of the stuff I hear today. There is a vast number of people who still know that there are two distinct words like axe and ask and where it is proper to use each.

Well, the "age of profitability" is the same as it was 50 years ago. Actually, it's older. Back then, it was 18-49, now it's 25-54. The center of that is 39.5. If there's programming for drug-addled, langauge and grammar-challenged 40-somethings, I haven't heard it.

 

[nmoore6676]

But when you conduct one on one interviews with listeners to that type of station, you get responses more like "Songs that remind me of my hight school years, which were the happiest years of my life."

True....but for the class of 1971, "Maggie May" and "Brown Sugar" weren't the only songs they remembered from their high school dance.

The Class of 71 (Wasn't that a movie?) consists of people who are now 60. Radio can not be in the business of caring what they want.

Radio should be, at least according to the papers they sign in order to secure their license, in the business of serving the community. I get that it is a business and i also understand trying to make a profit. But people don't just cease to exist after they pass the age of what some beady eyed guy in a New York ad agency has determined to be the age of profitability.

The other issue I have is that radio stations are all chasing after the same group of under educated drug addled listeners or at least they appear to be based on some of the stuff I hear today. There is a vast number of people who still know that there are two distinct words like axe and ask and where it is proper to use each.

Well, the "age of profitability" is the same as it was 50 years ago. Actually, it's older. Back then, it was 18-49, now it's 25-54. The center of that is 39.5. If there's programming for drug-addled, langauge and grammar-challenged 40-somethings, I haven't heard it.

I still question ignoring the older demographics. When I was a kid, over 50 years ago there were stations that catered to us, played the pop music of the day with people like Buddy Holly, Elvis. and later on the Beatles. At the same time there were stations playing music for my parents, like Sinatra, Perry Como, Dean Martin. There were stations that played hillbilly music but that was in Ohio which is close to Kentucky. All of this when there was no Clear Channel. the company. Ownership was limited and most stations unless they had a TV or FM operation were entirely stand alone.

I realize times are different and the economy is tough they have allowed multiple, almost unlimited, ownership the justification for which was the conditions of the day. So what you have is separate stations which are now just doors opening off the same hallway. And what they are programming for the most part is variations of the same format supposedly tweaked to attract whatever the target is. Most of this programming is coming from the same source over satellite or tracked automation packages. So the music in Hoboken is the same as in Seattle.

My remark about what I see as the intended listeners I have based on what I hear rattling out of cars passing by on the street. With a heavy bass track and words that when they are intelligible would make my third grade teacher, Mrs. McGilvery, cringe in horror is what I hear. I have no idea what you are listening to but if you don't get that then maybe I am just an ignorant hick now living in Iowa. I would say that all of my music was grammatically correct and sensible but then I just heard Nikki Hokey on the station which inspired this thread. Maybe things haven't changed so very much.

Speaking of Mrs. McGilvery, do they even teach grammar in schools now. Or spelling and vocabulary? I know I wouldn't miss that diagramming of sentences on the chalk board exercise. I am so old that they were still actually blackboards.

 

[oldies76]

Speaking of Mrs. McGilvery, do they even teach grammar in schools now. Or spelling and vocabulary? I know I wouldn't miss that diagramming of sentences on the chalk board exercise. I am so old that they were still actually blackboards.

-off topic-

I get your point.....glad I graduated high school in 1986 (and yes will still had the "blackboard" then).

Honestly, I don't know what the heck they teach in schools today, with kids using things today, that would have been prohibited (and put you in detention) back then!! So much for brain power.

 

[michael hagerty]

But when you conduct one on one interviews with listeners to that type of station, you get responses more like "Songs that remind me of my hight school years, which were the happiest years of my life."

True....but for the class of 1971, "Maggie May" and "Brown Sugar" weren't the only songs they remembered from their high school dance.

The Class of 71 (Wasn't that a movie?) consists of people who are now 60. Radio can not be in the business of caring what they want.

Radio should be, at least according to the papers they sign in order to secure their license, in the business of serving the community. I get that it is a business and i also understand trying to make a profit. But people don't just cease to exist after they pass the age of what some beady eyed guy in a New York ad agency has determined to be the age of profitability.

The other issue I have is that radio stations are all chasing after the same group of under educated drug addled listeners or at least they appear to be based on some of the stuff I hear today. There is a vast number of people who still know that there are two distinct words like axe and ask and where it is proper to use each.

Well, the "age of profitability" is the same as it was 50 years ago. Actually, it's older. Back then, it was 18-49, now it's 25-54. The center of that is 39.5. If there's programming for drug-addled, langauge and grammar-challenged 40-somethings, I haven't heard it.

I still question ignoring the older demographics. When I was a kid, over 50 years ago there were stations that catered to us, played the pop music of the day with people like Buddy Holly, Elvis. and later on the Beatles. At the same time there were stations playing music for my parents, like Sinatra, Perry Como, Dean Martin. There were stations that played hillbilly music but that was in Ohio which is close to Kentucky. All of this when there was no Clear Channel. the company. Ownership was limited and most stations unless they had a TV or FM operation were entirely stand alone.

I realize times are different and the economy is tough they have allowed multiple, almost unlimited, ownership the justification for which was the conditions of the day. So what you have is separate stations which are now just doors opening off the same hallway. And what they are programming for the most part is variations of the same format supposedly tweaked to attract whatever the target is. Most of this programming is coming from the same source over satellite or tracked automation packages. So the music in Hoboken is the same as in Seattle.

My remark about what I see as the intended listeners I have based on what I hear rattling out of cars passing by on the street. With a heavy bass track and words that when they are intelligible would make my third grade teacher, Mrs. McGilvery, cringe in horror is what I hear. I have no idea what you are listening to but if you don't get that then maybe I am just an ignorant hick now living in Iowa. I would say that all of my music was grammatically correct and sensible but then I just heard Nikki Hokey on the station which inspired this thread. Maybe things haven't changed so very much.

Speaking of Mrs. McGilvery, do they even teach grammar in schools now. Or spelling and vocabulary? I know I wouldn't miss that diagramming of sentences on the chalk board exercise. I am so old that they were still actually blackboards.

I get it. I'm out of the demo now, too.

But there was music for our parents because they were 18-49. There weren't many stations targeting our grandparents. And those that did didn't do especially well.

Kids? Well, we Boomers and those born within a few years of the boom benefitted from an unusual situation. The advertisers thought (rightly for some of us, wrongly for others) that we had money and were worth chasing. But before that, they weren't interested in teens...and even the Rhythmic CHRs today are aiming 18-34. There's virtually no money to be made at 17 or below. It's been that way for about 20 years.

And those people rolling by with the heavy bass track? They're likely under 25.

Again, the money...what the advertiser is chasing...is 25-54. Center is 39.5. In a country where the average first child is born to 27-year old parents, we're talking about people 18 years out of college, 22 years out of high school, nearing 20 years in the work force with an eldest child about to hit 13. They're not kids.

 

[Thomps2525]

I always admit when I'm wrong. I've had to do that twice so far. Anyway, back on page 1 I said that Long Island's WLNG boasted a 100,000-song playlist. Hey, I'm out here in Los Angeles, not New York, so go easy on me---WLNG's playlist is 10,000. Considering that the channel plays mid-1950s through mid-1980s and plays rock'n'roll, r&b, MOR, country and doo-wop, and considering that they play a lot of B-sides and non-charting singles along with almost every top-100 hit, that number sounds awfully low. Anyway, there is my official correction---10,000.

On the topic of blackboards: In almost every class I had in school, the chalkboard was green...and almost everyone, including the teachers, referred to them as "blackboards." Go figure!

 

[davideduardo]

Radio should be, at least according to the papers they sign in order to secure their license, in the business of serving the community. I get that it is a business and i also understand trying to make a profit. But people don't just cease to exist after they pass the age of what some beady eyed guy in a New York ad agency has determined to be the age of profitability.

First, it is not the ad agencies that set demographic targeting... it's the agency clients. Agencies create campaigns and place them according the what the client dictates.

Second, we are talking about agencies in New York and Seattle and Chicago and Dallas, and also in Miami and Kansas City and Phoenix. Local agencies, regional agencies, national agencies.

The reason essentially all radio advertising is targeted at under-55 year old listeners is that clients look at the return on investment and realize that there is a poor or non.existent ROI when older consumers are targeted.

The other issue I have is that radio stations are all chasing after the same group of under educated drug addled listeners or at least they appear to be based on some of the stuff I hear today.

I think that is a generational observation. I'm not fond of the music my parents liked... but on the other hand, I really enjoy today's contemporary pop and country, as well as current music in genres as diverse as J-pop and Argentine Rock and Spanish pop. In most cases, I like the new stuff as well as or better than the Top 40 things of the 50's and 60's. So there are some that like the music of their generation, and others who love to follow or go with the times.

There is a vast number of people who still know that there are two distinct words like axe and ask and where it is proper to use each.

Language is dynamic. It changes, and sometimes the exchanges become accepted.

When you have a market like LA where a large number of radio stations are owned by a couple of mega sized corporations it would appear that there is an opportunity to chase after some other audience.

Let's go back to the early to mid 60's. You had big companies like CBS, ABC, RKO General, Metromedia, Golden West, Crowell-Collier, Storer controlling the vast majority of the viable stations at the time. And because FM did not become viable until the end of the 60's or start of the 70's, those few AMs represented, along with a couple of independents and some bad-signal stations, the only options in LA.

Every possible viable format is taken. Were there more format option, any of the several underperforming stations would take it.

Sorry David but every time you bring up age like this you hit one of my nearly 70 year old nerves dead on.

As long as most broadcasting is advertising supported, stations can only exist if there is potential revenue. There is not enough money to support stations targeting seniors... the so-called "geezer demos" and it's not radio's fault, either.

 

[oldies76]

That's going on 30 years ago. Rock 'n roll was only about 30 years old, and "oldies" meant songs that were about 15 to 25 years old.

You have to realize that stations today want the same audience they had then. Not the same people, but the same audience... 25-54!

On the other hand, keeping your "original" audience over that period of time....I'll consider that a bonus, a very satisfied listener, regardless if that station targets 55+ or not. Just because you're 67 years old, does not mean you can or cannot enjoy some great music, from the radio.