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A Plea to Omnia, Tieline, Broadcast Tools and Anyone Else Using Java

W

WNTIRadio

Java is the WORST.

At least once a week, the Java application either crashes, needs to be updated because of security issues or is generally painfully slow to load.

Also, using Java blocks any of your web applications from running on an iPhone or other Apple mobile product.

I've been patient, but every time I need to get on something in a pinch I have to do a Java update or it freezes. This is across multiple machines, multiple OS (XP, 7, 8) and multiple browsers (IE, Firefox, Chrome).

Somebody please make Java stop being in my life.
 
Go to your Windows Control Panel, click the Java icon. "Advanced" (tab) > "Java Plug-in". Uncheck the box. Now click the "Update" tab and tell it never to check for updates.

While you're in Control Panel, click Admin Tools > Services. Look for an entry called Java Quick Starter. Right-click it, select Properties, Disable.

Lastly, using msconfig or a program such as CCleaner, check the Startups section to see all the programs starting automatically when you boot your machine. Delete or disable the Java updater entry here.
 
Have done all of that. Java still sucks and is slow as anything to load. The near constant need to do updates because of the weekly security issue is still there too.

And none of that fixes the fact that I can't view any of it on an iPhone/iPad.

It's just a terrible platform to place anything mission critical on, such as a codec.

The problem is that when I log on to the Omnia.11 or the Tieline, it either takes forever to load or there's a security problem and the browser stops it from running.

JQS and the updater have been off on my PC's since I put it in. Use the Eusing cleaner to get rid of the old vestigial registry entries from old versions.

It's just all around a bloated, slow, outdated and terrible language.
 
WNTIRadio said:
And none of that fixes the fact that I can't view any of it on an iPhone/iPad.
It's just a terrible platform to place anything mission critical on, such as a codec.
Click to expand...

OK, but what do you propose as a cross platform applet instead?

Because Java is platform independant, we use it in our Webservers so that it will run on Windows machines, Macs, including the I-pad or I-phone, Linux/Unix browsers and Android stuff. I don't know about other folks' stuff but every platform we've tried runs our code.

I'm not sure why someone's Java applet won't run on your I-pad or I-phone, but I'm guessing it's not something with the basic Java code. They must be doing something unique that is not supported on your browser. From the developer's perspective, it's a pain to make sure your code works on everything because sometimes something will run on everything except one browser. It can be frustrating to have to write several ways to accomplish a function before finding one that runs everywhere. Sometimes we spend a lot of time doing just that, but I think it's worth it to avoid the kinds of problems that generate these type of complaints. The other thing that's easy to accidently do is develop memory leaks that slow down the applet and may lead to crashes. Tight programming can control these issues, but one must always be vigilant.
 
iPhones/iPads don't support Java when you're logging in via a website. I would have to go through the PIA of using Cloud Browse to view any Java applets on my iPhone, which is incredibly slow and unreliable.

I don't know what the solution is for cross platform compatibility. I do know that Java is a royal pain to use.
 
Well, we're using names that are somewhat confusing and easily transposed. Some of us, myself included, are probably talking about Javascript rather than Java.

Java creates stand alone self-running files or applets. Javascript creates objects that run inside of Web browsers. Javascript acts as an extension of the Web browser allowing it to do things that simple HTML cannot do.

While some stuff on the Web does require Java, the majority of stuff online that runs from a Webserver is Javascript rather than Java. While Apple does not support Java, it does support Javascript. I can attest to that since I've logged into our Webservers many times via I-pad.

Because Java creates applets that are compiled into machine language and can run by themselves, security has to be kept updated to help keep malicious applets from running on your PC. In the case of Javascript, the security is handled by the browser, so when you update your browser, you're also installing the latest security fixes.

Java is more powerful and complex than Javascript, but Javascript is more universally supported. It's a tradeoff between functionality, complexity and support.
 
Kmagrill said:
Well, we're using names that are somewhat confusing and easily transposed. Some of us, myself included, are probably talking about Javascript rather than Java.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the explanation. You confirmed what I knew..... part of. ;D

This is a little off the original topic, but since it will draw some people who may be able to answer my question, my request, let me ask a question that takes off on a tangent.

I built very simple web sites most of the time. I don't do a LOT of web site construction. But I am trying to get a reasonably simple one functioning and I could use some help... if some one can point me to a web site or a book that will address what I want to do.

On this new website I have a DEMO page where several audio tracks will be availabel for people to hear. I finally have that working with two tracks currently out there. (They are just place-holders right now as far as content goes.) I am using JavaScript that I took from a tutorial web site.

Here is my remaining challenge. Conventional wisdom among Voice Over people is that DEMOs ought to be on the landing page, the HOME page if you please. I would like to NOT to that if I want to carve out room for 5 or 6 "player displays". So here is what I am wanting to know if I can do, and where can I go for some programming help on doing it. On my HOME page I have a display. Right beside it I would like to put a BUTTON or LINK which will be labeled [DEMO - Click Here].

Patient people who see the big picture will realize there is a whole page where they can go for multiple DEMOs. Impatient people who expect to find a DEMO track right on the front can click my [DEMO - Click Here] and get instant gratification.

What I want behind that button is code that will take them to the DEMO PAGE and auto-play the primary demo track. (For people who go to the DEMO page via the menu, I do not want opening up the page to cause Auto Play. So is it possible using HTML5 and JavaScript to make this happen with only one click?
 
I don't think it is a good idea to disable updates for Java. I admit that Java may be a problem. I think that the Android o/s doesn't even support Java and that could be problem if you wish to use that type of device to access a Java app across the web. But to disable Java updates is just leaving yourself open for an exploit that could be prevented by staying current. There have been many stories in the news lately about foreign hackers getting into all sorts of US based computer networks looking to steal data. And consequently, lots and lots of updates for Java and Flash. Until developers stop using it, it's probably best to just keep everything updated...
 
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
Patient people who see the big picture will realize there is a whole page where they can go for multiple DEMOs. Impatient people who expect to find a DEMO track right on the front can click my [DEMO - Click Here] and get instant gratification.

What I want behind that button is code that will take them to the DEMO PAGE and auto-play the primary demo track. (For people who go to the DEMO page via the menu, I do not want opening up the page to cause Auto Play. So is it possible using HTML5 and JavaScript to make this happen with only one click?
Click to expand...

I do some of my best thinking while I am sleeping. (That makes it sound like I have a pretty low bar for what is my best! ;D )

I think this will be my solution: I will clone my "default.html" in the directory for DEMOs. The clone will be renamed something very, very original... like maybe "difault.html". In the new cloned page I can set the prime demo cut as "auto-play". The new cloned page cannot be reached via the menu system. The only way a person will get to it is by pressing the big gaudy "DEMO-Click Here" button on the home page. But the menu system will show up on the cloned page and people can then navigate to other pages. If they are in another page and use the MENU system to get back to DEMOs, they will not get the auto-play feature as they will arrive at the true, genuine "default.html" page. But if they are on the clone, all the other demo tracks will work when clicked on, just like when they are on the genuine "default.html" page.

What I haven't tried yet: If viewer arrives in the clone page and the primary demo track plays, and then they try another track or two, and decide to go back and click on the primary demo track... will having it set for auto-play disable the ability to play again with a click on the player image?

Sorry to have hi-jacked a perfectly good thread. I've tackled several computer languages through the years. Java is NOT one of them however. And JavaScript has just recently caught my attention because of this web site I am building. So, I shall roll up my sleeves and start conquering the little beast. Any feedback you have on my plan to tackle the audio-on-a-web-page project will be received with open arms.

I'll report back later on how it works. And once the web site is functioning, give a link for the morbidly curious.
 
"Java is the WORST..."

You've got that right. I'm very tired of people writing stuff with Java as it barely works, and when it does, it only works right on SOME machines. A prime example of this is the Tieline stuff. Why they don't just offer a simple page that a guy with stats that a guy could refresh over and over again for updates is beyond me. If someone wants the bloated java applet, let them use it. I'd rather just know that the connection is up and running ok. It is annoying to fight with Java when you're simply wanting to know this info.
 
I suspect the main reason so much stuff uses Java is because it is free. Just because it is slow, doesn't like some browsers and constantly wants to be updated doesn't fit into the equation. That is disappointing. My new (and quite expensive) Omnia 11 uses Java. The screen works fine on some computers and not worth a darn on others, using the same browser. I have no idea why, but it is a PITA. Any suggestions?
 
I fight with it on my Tielines all the time.

The 11 isn't as bad, must be better code. Still have the issue of it working on some machines and not on others. Same OS. Same browser. Same version of Java.

I'd rather have, for the Tielines, a simple page that shows connection status as an option.

For the 11, I'd rather have a custom app, like the 9 has.
 
Oh, man, you sure got that right.... Java, what a huge, slow dinosaur of a platform. I uninstalled it from all my computers long ago. Sorry to hear that you're forced to use it.
 
I went to get into one of my processors this afternoon and like a fool, I let it update Java. That took forever and it tried to load McAfee into my computer. Just what I need - take a perfectly good working computer and load a second anti-virus program in it. That could potentially cause a real train wreck. Now you know why it is free and worth every penny you paid. (Maybe less).
 
Yes. I agree with all of the above.

As someone pointed out, there isn't much out there in the form of alternatives that are cross-platform.

When the Omnia.11 came out, there weren't as many issues with Java. These days we have a Java exploit every week (literally).

One of the advantages Java gives is to do away with an issue that was quite a pain with Omnia.6, and that was end users having trouble keeping the remote software versions matched with the correct versions of O6 front panel versions. Users who accidentally tried adjusting the processor with the wrong version of software ended up with all kinds of unpredictable results.

We are actively looking for any alternatives that can give the same rich user experience remotely as you have sitting in front of the box, and can operate across many platforms...Windows, Mac, Linux, etc. In the meantime, this Java issue is a pain for all of us...

Yes! That ASK tool bar install request is VERY annoying!!!!

In any case, we are looking into the situation. As soon as we have an answer that addresses our goals, we will be on it, for sure!

For those of you experiencing extreme slowdowns, what OS / PC / Browsers are you using? We have noticed that lately some of the MAC OS versions run Java extremely slow. Browsers running on Linux / Windows seem to not have this issue. I'm curious as to any other OS / Browser combinations that are less than optimal these days.

Thanks!

-Cornelius Gould
Omnia Audio
 
I've tried logging into my Omnia 11 with Internet Explorer 9, Firefox and Chrome. Chrome seems to yield the best results. My issue with Java isn't limited to the Omnia stuff. It is also used in just about anything from Broadcast Tools and many others. It is a real pain when you need to make a quick change to something and it ends up taking an hour to do it because of the bloatware associated with Java.

Some of my other processors are from BW Broadcast. (DSP-Xtra's to be specific). They come with a CD with the appropriate software which you simply load in your computer one time. In case you lose the CD, you can also download it from their web site. Once it is loaded, it generates a desktop icon which you can easily access anytime you want it. Logging in is no more difficult than connecting your computer to the network and clicking on the icon. No muss, no bother. I think this is the way to do it.

Considering the DSP-Xtra costs a small fraction of what I paid for my 11, I have to say I'm disappointed with my purchase, if for no other reason than the user interface.
 
Chuck said:
Considering the DSP-Xtra costs a small fraction of what I paid for my 11, I have to say I'm disappointed with my purchase, if for no other reason than the user interface.
Click to expand...

Thought the reason you purchased an audio processor, was for audio performance. The UI is a utility to the device.
 
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