This morning, I was listening to some of a replay of AMERICAN TOP 40 from 1979 on 98.9. It struck me that I was actually hearing songs I hadn't heard in a long time or don't even remember, yet were enjoyable to listen to. Why can't 98.9 or some other similar station expand their playlists to include, say, more Top 40 hits (including those that never made top-10) from the 60s, 70s and 80s? Maybe not everything, but certainly more than the predictable, boring rotations available now. I've realized how much more I'm avoiding AC stations due to that.
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
A possible solution to stale playlists
- Thread starter johng
- Start date
More variety. Unfortunately PDs/consultants feel people want only the familiar, and maybe your only chance to hear certain songs that were very or kinda popular back then, yet aren't often heard
these days, is shows like AT40 or Lost 45s...or satellite radio. Even they can play it fairly
safe at times.
They are afraid some people will tune out when they hear something that doesn't "test well". Maybe they should take chances, yes, and I'm all for that...and for stations that DO give variety. Tell
the PDs and consultants, though...see if they'll respond.
Remember when Mike 93.7 went on the air? They weren't afraid to throw out great songs you hadn't heard it awhile (Sausolito Summernight by Diesel, for one) or oddball stuff like comedy or Tony
Bennett or country, etc. Funny, after awhile their "variety hits" got safer, and safer, and more
predictable. When the word came that they would be giving way to a simulcast of WEEI, there were people all bummed out because "Mike" was their choice for "more variety". Yet listening
to that last few days of Mike I found myself saying "I can hear all these songs on other
stations". Yes, sometimes they would mix R&B and pop and hard rock, etc., but even they
got to be...predictable. Your mp3 player come to life...with the same old songs. Refugee.
Born in the USA. The Tide is High. Walk This Way. You Give Love A Bad Name. Sympathy For the Devil. I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For. Wow. What variety.
(That being said their ratings were half decent. If they really threw in some variety they figure
the ratings would plummet. Sad but true.)
these days, is shows like AT40 or Lost 45s...or satellite radio. Even they can play it fairly
safe at times.
They are afraid some people will tune out when they hear something that doesn't "test well". Maybe they should take chances, yes, and I'm all for that...and for stations that DO give variety. Tell
the PDs and consultants, though...see if they'll respond.
Remember when Mike 93.7 went on the air? They weren't afraid to throw out great songs you hadn't heard it awhile (Sausolito Summernight by Diesel, for one) or oddball stuff like comedy or Tony
Bennett or country, etc. Funny, after awhile their "variety hits" got safer, and safer, and more
predictable. When the word came that they would be giving way to a simulcast of WEEI, there were people all bummed out because "Mike" was their choice for "more variety". Yet listening
to that last few days of Mike I found myself saying "I can hear all these songs on other
stations". Yes, sometimes they would mix R&B and pop and hard rock, etc., but even they
got to be...predictable. Your mp3 player come to life...with the same old songs. Refugee.
Born in the USA. The Tide is High. Walk This Way. You Give Love A Bad Name. Sympathy For the Devil. I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For. Wow. What variety.
(That being said their ratings were half decent. If they really threw in some variety they figure
the ratings would plummet. Sad but true.)
raccoonradio said:
*Sigh*
Consultants/PD's don't FEEL people want to hear the songs they like, they KNOW. Why do you think stations do research?
Stations aren't AFRAID people will tune out when they hear a song they don't like, they DO. It's proven.
Why do you think that as Mike's playlist got tighter, the ratings improved year after year?
Station playlists aren't arbitrary, they're done the way they are because THAT'S WHAT THE LISTENERS WANT.
Like I just said, that's the idea. Say you have greater variety then tighten the playlists. Ratings go up, great. You've planted the money tree and can reap the fruits. And if you want REAL
variety, get a satellite radio, or HD radio, or tune to a college station or something.
They would rather please 8 out of 10 people than piss off the 1 or so out of 10 who would like
something different. (The other 1 out of 10 are maybe listening to music or an audibook on mp3. Or maybe a lot more than 1 out of 10...)
variety, get a satellite radio, or HD radio, or tune to a college station or something.
They would rather please 8 out of 10 people than piss off the 1 or so out of 10 who would like
something different. (The other 1 out of 10 are maybe listening to music or an audibook on mp3. Or maybe a lot more than 1 out of 10...)
Most PD's has crap for Brains or over work trying to run two or more stations with different formats. Stay lazy and play the same songs over and over again. I remember back in the days hearing Queen on Urban Radio and Run DMC and The Fat Boys on Rock Stations. That's not going to happen on todays clueless radio formats.
It was a marvelous joke played by someone in some radio group research department somewhere when they doctored the figures so that Cat's in the Cradle "tested well." They must laugh every time it is played.
There is no other answer.
There is no other answer.
johng said:
I heard that same AT40 on our new local "93.7 The Wave" (WRMO Milbridge, Maine) Sunday morning, and had almost the same reaction. Luckily we now have two local stations doing just that.
The other is "Big 104"; WBAK 104.7 Belfast/Bangor
I can't believe Frank Mills' "Music Box Dancer" was #4 on AT40 that week back in 1979~!~
There's a funny spoof of Cats in the Cradle on YouTube: Cat in the Kettle (at the Peking Moon).
Of topical interest because people suddenly realized our President admitted to eating dog
when he was younger...well, not the only pet that can be consumed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmXxrMC5Pv4
Of topical interest because people suddenly realized our President admitted to eating dog
when he was younger...well, not the only pet that can be consumed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmXxrMC5Pv4
yup, Demento has played it
By time a playlist is considered stale, it has become REAL stale. PD's like to play it safe, real safe, too safe. It will be the demise of their station. How much Eagles, Elton John, Steely Dan etc (their same tired old 5-10 songs or so) can the listener take?
I think MANY folks enjoy a lot of variety. More than many PD's realize.
There's no reason a station like WZLX cannot play a lot more classic album sides.
But they don't and I rarely listen anymore;(not singling out ZLX-they have their moments) But when I do channel surf the FM's, I'm rather surprised to hear anything other than the same tired old hits (or something rhyming with hits)
I'm sure we will get some "experts" who will cite surveys that justify their actions (or lack of).
And I'm open minded enough to hear their side of the story but unless there are major changes, I won't listen to their station.
My possible solution: if a station is going to play the same tired old stuff, at least include the live/concert version of the song. There usually are many versions/renditions of the same song.
The REAL solution: more deep album cuts and shorter (but more effective) commercial spots.
I think MANY folks enjoy a lot of variety. More than many PD's realize.
There's no reason a station like WZLX cannot play a lot more classic album sides.
But they don't and I rarely listen anymore;(not singling out ZLX-they have their moments) But when I do channel surf the FM's, I'm rather surprised to hear anything other than the same tired old hits (or something rhyming with hits)
I'm sure we will get some "experts" who will cite surveys that justify their actions (or lack of).
And I'm open minded enough to hear their side of the story but unless there are major changes, I won't listen to their station.
My possible solution: if a station is going to play the same tired old stuff, at least include the live/concert version of the song. There usually are many versions/renditions of the same song.
The REAL solution: more deep album cuts and shorter (but more effective) commercial spots.
vibe said:
That's what's so entertaining about this board. Everyone's a program director and everyone has *THE* answer for what they perceive as "boring" or "same tired old hits" or "too short playlists," when those who actually work in the radio business have no such delusions about the behavior of listeners.
Once more, with feeling: Radio is a BUSINESS. Program directors are expected to perform in the only metric that has any meaning to those who run the business: Arbitron. Ratings results show that longer playlists get lower ratings; shorter lists get higher ratings. I'm not making it up. 50+ years of ratings results, including results from the other rating companies that have fallen by the wayside, confirm it. That's the only measurement anyone cares about, because higher ratings = more money, and whether a company is privately owned or publicly traded, having a nice fat bottom line full of black ink is what the owners are about.
Yes, Arbitron's audience measurement techniques have ongoing problems, particularly sample size, but until someone else comes along with a better solution, the business will continue to look to Arbitron for its "how are we doing" measurement.
You can whine and moan (and tune out) all you want, but that's how this business is. The REAL solution is to stop ignoring reality and 50+ years of experience.
>>Radio is a BUSINESS. Program directors are expected to perform in the only metric that has any meaning to those who run the business: Arbitron.
Indeed, as much as music lovers might complain about the lack of variety, this is what counts
for most station owners. I say most because some stations are non-commercial...or are licensed
to be commercial but opt for donations from listeners (yes I meant WJIB and WJTO) And if you
don't like the variety, or lack thereof, offered by music stations you do have other options:
--Non-commercial/college
--HD radio
--Satellite radio
--Your mp3 player
--CDs, etc.
If enough people tune stations out perhaps they will change but more likely not. Look at the
variety hits stations, like what we had with Mike 93.7 here. The big companies like Entercom
asked themselves, what do people want--maybe they want just the music, with little or no
DJs (yes personality radio does matter but not to everyone). They want to listen to their
mp3 player. Fine, we'll act as their mp3 player and just offer the music. Maybe the occasional
offbeat tune, but generally the mainstream stuff they want to hear. (And as I said earlier
as time went on, their playlist became more and more safe. The ratings went up and up.
Hmm.)
Obviously this kind of thinking hurts record companies and artists trying to break through.
They may have great music, but the big broadcasters figure people want to hear I Still
Haven't Found What I'm Looking For, Sweet Caroline, Smells Like Teen Spirit, Walk This Way,
for the umpteenth time.
>>PD's like to play it safe, real safe, too safe
Don't like that, well tough. Is radio driving people to mp3 players, etc., instead? (Thus
the imitation-of-an-mp3 player-radio) Yes some people do take chances but if playing it
safe means high ratings and billing, then that's what they go with. Again I have to quote
Mrs. Carlson, owner of WKRP in that old 70s sitcom: "Young man, this radio station is a business.
It is not here for your personal listening pleasure."
Andy Travis, the new PD hire, does tell her that yes he knows it's a business: "And that's why I had no choice but to change the format." Yes, they got spots from Shady Hills Rest Home.
"Many people ask this age-old question...what happens when I can no longer feed myself?"
But Travis changed it to raucous rock, hiring DJs like Johnny "Dr Johnny Fever" Caravella
and Venus Flytrap. Was he taking a chance? In a way, yes, but ultimately even WKRP
wound up playing it safe, just with rock and roll as the format. But again, radio is a business.
Indeed, as much as music lovers might complain about the lack of variety, this is what counts
for most station owners. I say most because some stations are non-commercial...or are licensed
to be commercial but opt for donations from listeners (yes I meant WJIB and WJTO) And if you
don't like the variety, or lack thereof, offered by music stations you do have other options:
--Non-commercial/college
--HD radio
--Satellite radio
--Your mp3 player
--CDs, etc.
If enough people tune stations out perhaps they will change but more likely not. Look at the
variety hits stations, like what we had with Mike 93.7 here. The big companies like Entercom
asked themselves, what do people want--maybe they want just the music, with little or no
DJs (yes personality radio does matter but not to everyone). They want to listen to their
mp3 player. Fine, we'll act as their mp3 player and just offer the music. Maybe the occasional
offbeat tune, but generally the mainstream stuff they want to hear. (And as I said earlier
as time went on, their playlist became more and more safe. The ratings went up and up.
Hmm.)
Obviously this kind of thinking hurts record companies and artists trying to break through.
They may have great music, but the big broadcasters figure people want to hear I Still
Haven't Found What I'm Looking For, Sweet Caroline, Smells Like Teen Spirit, Walk This Way,
for the umpteenth time.
>>PD's like to play it safe, real safe, too safe
Don't like that, well tough. Is radio driving people to mp3 players, etc., instead? (Thus
the imitation-of-an-mp3 player-radio) Yes some people do take chances but if playing it
safe means high ratings and billing, then that's what they go with. Again I have to quote
Mrs. Carlson, owner of WKRP in that old 70s sitcom: "Young man, this radio station is a business.
It is not here for your personal listening pleasure."
Andy Travis, the new PD hire, does tell her that yes he knows it's a business: "And that's why I had no choice but to change the format." Yes, they got spots from Shady Hills Rest Home.
"Many people ask this age-old question...what happens when I can no longer feed myself?"
But Travis changed it to raucous rock, hiring DJs like Johnny "Dr Johnny Fever" Caravella
and Venus Flytrap. Was he taking a chance? In a way, yes, but ultimately even WKRP
wound up playing it safe, just with rock and roll as the format. But again, radio is a business.
I say f*ck playlists and PD's and digital tracking and automation. A human mind is a terrible thing to waste. Commercial stations should take a lesson from their non-commercial brother/sister stations "down the dial", or the model employed by alternative FM radio of the 60's by granting human beings the authority to produce their own content and listen to the fabulous results.
If you wish to hear this in practice, tune in to Eli Polonsky's "Lost and Found" - http://lostwmbr.blogspot.com/ -Tuesday noon-2pm on student/community radio WMBR (88.1fm, streaming at wmbr.org) "Lost & Found explores music of the 1960's to mid-70's. We cover all genres, and spotlight music you won't hear on commercial "Classic Hits/Classic Rock" stations. Hits that have been forgotten, or the "hits" that never were!"
I guarantee you will not hear these 60's/70's titles played on sanitized commercial radio:
Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - Eli Polonsky
12:02. Hawkwind - Space is Deep
12:11. Fred Neil - The Dolphins
12:16. The Byrds - Dolphin's Smile
12:18. The Youngbloods - Ride The Wind - REQ • LIVE
12:32. The Beach Boys - Wind Chimes - REQ
12:37. Brinsley Schwarz - Lady Constant
12:46. Moby Grape - Can't Be So Bad - REQ
12:50. Quicksilver Messenger Service - Fresh Air - REQ
12:55. Circus Maximus - Wind - REQ
In memoriam - Levon Helm
01:05. Ronnie Hawkins & The Hawks - Mary Lou
01:08. Ronnie Hawkins & The Hawks - Who Do You Love
01:11. Levon & The Hawks - He Don't Love You
01:16. Levon & The Hawks - Not Fade Away - LIVE
01:19. Bob Dylan & The Band - Can You Please Crawl Out Your Window?
01:22. Bob Dylan & The Band - Ain't No More Cane
01:26. The Band - Back To Memphis - LIVE
01:33. The Band - When I Paint My Masterpiece - REQ
01:38. The Band - Life Is A Carnival - REQ • LIVE
01:48. Levon Helm Band (with Bob Weir) - Deep Elem Blues (2011) - LIVE
01:56. The Band - Ophelia - LIVE
If you wish to hear this in practice, tune in to Eli Polonsky's "Lost and Found" - http://lostwmbr.blogspot.com/ -Tuesday noon-2pm on student/community radio WMBR (88.1fm, streaming at wmbr.org) "Lost & Found explores music of the 1960's to mid-70's. We cover all genres, and spotlight music you won't hear on commercial "Classic Hits/Classic Rock" stations. Hits that have been forgotten, or the "hits" that never were!"
I guarantee you will not hear these 60's/70's titles played on sanitized commercial radio:
Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - Eli Polonsky
12:02. Hawkwind - Space is Deep
12:11. Fred Neil - The Dolphins
12:16. The Byrds - Dolphin's Smile
12:18. The Youngbloods - Ride The Wind - REQ • LIVE
12:32. The Beach Boys - Wind Chimes - REQ
12:37. Brinsley Schwarz - Lady Constant
12:46. Moby Grape - Can't Be So Bad - REQ
12:50. Quicksilver Messenger Service - Fresh Air - REQ
12:55. Circus Maximus - Wind - REQ
In memoriam - Levon Helm
01:05. Ronnie Hawkins & The Hawks - Mary Lou
01:08. Ronnie Hawkins & The Hawks - Who Do You Love
01:11. Levon & The Hawks - He Don't Love You
01:16. Levon & The Hawks - Not Fade Away - LIVE
01:19. Bob Dylan & The Band - Can You Please Crawl Out Your Window?
01:22. Bob Dylan & The Band - Ain't No More Cane
01:26. The Band - Back To Memphis - LIVE
01:33. The Band - When I Paint My Masterpiece - REQ
01:38. The Band - Life Is A Carnival - REQ • LIVE
01:48. Levon Helm Band (with Bob Weir) - Deep Elem Blues (2011) - LIVE
01:56. The Band - Ophelia - LIVE
50+ years of ratings results, including results from the other rating companies that have fallen by the wayside, confirm it.
Remember all those legendary Top 40 stations that everyone, in retrospect, fondly remembers as the glory days of kickass radio?
10 tunes in high rotation, 1, or maybe 2, spins of something off the #11 to #40 chart per hour, an occasional recurrent a hour, a pick-to-click and/or a make-it-or-break-it once a shift to generate phone calls.
Used to turn numbers, especially during 'homework-time' when all the heavy hitters worked, that would make a modern PD's eyes water.
Regards,
TSB
Remember all those legendary Top 40 stations that everyone, in retrospect, fondly remembers as the glory days of kickass radio?
10 tunes in high rotation, 1, or maybe 2, spins of something off the #11 to #40 chart per hour, an occasional recurrent a hour, a pick-to-click and/or a make-it-or-break-it once a shift to generate phone calls.
Used to turn numbers, especially during 'homework-time' when all the heavy hitters worked, that would make a modern PD's eyes water.
Regards,
TSB
Obviously this kind of thinking hurts record companies and artists trying to break through. They may have great music, but the big broadcasters figure people want to hear I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For, Sweet Caroline, Smells Like Teen Spirit, Walk This Way, for the umpteenth time.
This ain't exactly new, and breaking through in the music biz has always been a bit#h.
When I worked at WBZ in the early 80's, the FM was an automated non-stop, essentially non-commercial, juke box.
The Music Director/PD of the FM kept a 40 gallon trash barrel in the office. It was filled to overflowing with the demo 45s that used to pour in. Staff could wander through to dig thru that slush pile, and every now and then they'd donate a thousand or so to some local group that wanted records, any kind of records, as long as they were free. Every one of those clay-pigeon demos was made by someone who thought that Kasey Kasem would soon be calling. And a station that had the luxury of rolling the dice on almost anything, tossed them into that barrel after a 10 second sampling.
The idea that somehow playlists today are making it harder for a new artist to break in just ain't so. In fact, with today's technology, getting a shot at stardom is easier than ever (easier, of course, being a relative term.)
Regards,
TSB
This ain't exactly new, and breaking through in the music biz has always been a bit#h.
When I worked at WBZ in the early 80's, the FM was an automated non-stop, essentially non-commercial, juke box.
The Music Director/PD of the FM kept a 40 gallon trash barrel in the office. It was filled to overflowing with the demo 45s that used to pour in. Staff could wander through to dig thru that slush pile, and every now and then they'd donate a thousand or so to some local group that wanted records, any kind of records, as long as they were free. Every one of those clay-pigeon demos was made by someone who thought that Kasey Kasem would soon be calling. And a station that had the luxury of rolling the dice on almost anything, tossed them into that barrel after a 10 second sampling.
The idea that somehow playlists today are making it harder for a new artist to break in just ain't so. In fact, with today's technology, getting a shot at stardom is easier than ever (easier, of course, being a relative term.)
Regards,
TSB
- Status