A Question about Praise & Worship and CCM Radio

[MorningLight]

> I am digusted with most of the P&W stuff that is coming out.
> It is now rereleasing every P&W song that many other
> singers that have done in the past.

Let's put it this way... "cover" songs are pretty few and far between for us. Why would I want to play a (usually) inferior-quality re-make of a once-popular song? I don't. I'm not even playing 30% "P&W" style music, either. It's a few songs here and there, and it's the "original" versions... the ones the listeners know.

When I get a new song that is a "cover", it already has two strikes against it. It has to be *exceptional* in some way to get airplay.

> I had a friend to tell me that P&W music is now just a fad.
> I now understand where he came from, since he works at a
> Lifeway Christian Bookstore in the Ackworth/Woodstock area
> of Atlanta and helps manage this store.

If it's a fad, it seems to be a rather long-lived one! I remember buying Integrity's Hosanna! music back in the late 80's.

I do agree, though, that in order for the genre' to grow, they need new and fresh music, not re-makes.

Oh, and I am also not a fan of "7-11" music, either... you know, seven words, repeated eleven times. That only works *sometimes* in a Church service... not on the radio. I always look for music which has depth to the lyrics.

> If your radio station feels comfortable supporting this
> "Fad", Mr. Morning Light, carry on.

Why are you being so adversarial? You seem to be ASSUMING (remember what happens whan you ASSUME?) where I stand.

> Quite frankly, I am disgusted with it and would love to see
> Christian music clean its act up and get back to Preaching
> the real Gospel, with no sugar coating or lovely dovely type
> songs.

Hey, I AGREE WITH YOU! Really!

The thing that "lit my fuse" was the generalization: calling P&W "crap". (Shudder)

> P.S. Personally, I would rather listen to radio station that
> promoted sound doctrine, than to listen to someone that had
> a lovely dovely type message on it.

SO WOULD I!!! You'd be surprised at how many of those kinds of shallow songs I make into Frisbees, aimed at the "File 13" next to my desk!

Willie...
www.mymorninglight.org/songlist.htm

 

[rbrucecarter]

> The thing that "lit my fuse" was the generalization: calling
> P&W "crap". (Shudder)

Just so you don't feel singled out - if I don't like it, I don't play it, and call it crap. Some other things in that category:

Opera
Country
Anything in Spanish
Easy listening
"News" / talk radio
Southern gospel (are you shuddering?)
Hymns (now you can really shudder!)

Don't like, don't play it, don't program it. And the other poster was right - I AM narrowly focused on kids, because they are the future of the church. We don't reach them NOW with the programming they need, will the church even have a future?

But I meant it when I said I am glad you are there with your station for the PW fans. You would hate my programming, and that doesn't bother me a bit because its not aimed at you. Its aimed at unsaved kids.

I think we got more in common than different - Christ and his Holy Spirit. The only difference is the "one size fits all" CCM station concept. "Safe and fun for the family" usually = "safe and fun for the parents, (kids can go to hell because they don't send donations)". Sad. Really sad. I would hate to go to the judgement throne with that attitude on my heart. No matter how much business sense it made.

So you are more than welcome to call Christian rock, Hot AC, and up tempo CCM crap if you want. Its no big --- and I will continue to speak my mind about stuff that doesn't meet my spiritual needs, too. And yes, there are exceptions to every rule. Like your kid who got a closer walk listening to PW. Audiences arrange themselves into bell curves, and I can counter your kid who prefers PW to the 83 year old woman who called cursing out my 14 year old announcer - but who continued to listen and called back later apologizing and became a fan and financial supporter!

 

[MorningLight]

> > The thing that "lit my fuse" was the generalization:
> calling
> > P&W "crap". (Shudder)
>
> Just so you don't feel singled out - if I don't like it, I
> don't play it, and call it crap.

Oh! Well, aren't you just the paragon of manners and polite conversation? <:/

You know what... you are *really* starting to frighten me! I am not kidding! <
I wouldn't want *my* kid exposed to that kind of attitude! Just because *you* don't like something, it's "crap"?! Good grief. Some role model *that* is.

> Some other things in that
> category:
>
> Opera

I don't like it at all, but I still won't call it "crap".

> Country

Never liked it. Still don't. In many cases, though, the lyrics are offensive and quite sinful. Perhaps that's about the closest thing to "crap" in your whole list.

> Anything in Spanish

Oh, ok... so now we see Racism added to Bigotry! Nice. I sure hope you don't have any Hispanic kids in your group... if you do, I wonder if they have any idea you feel this way about their language. <

I don't speak Spanish, and I don't understand it, either. That does *not* make it "crap"! I did some Engineering work for a local Spanish Christian station. Even though I didn't know what they are saying, while I was there, there were several times when I could *feel* the presence of the Holy Spirit ministering through them. They are absolutely *wonderful* people who love the Lord Jesus very deeply. But I guess to you, it's still "crap"? If so, that is *really sad*!

> Easy listening

I don't care for it, either. That still doesn't mean it's "crap".

> "News" / talk radio

Ok, so either you watch the News on TV, read the Paper, or choose to be uninformed. That still doesn't make News/Talk "crap". Matter of fact, my employer's station is a Daytimer. We have to sign-off because of WTOP in Washington DC. It's a News/Talker. If anyone had reason to dislike News/Talk, it would be me for that reason... but I don't. It's useful and informative. Do I wish WTOP didn't exist? Yes, but not because of their format. Only because without them, my employer's station could be 24 hours.

> Southern gospel (are you shuddering?)

Although it is not my #1 choice, I don't mind listening to it. Every station I've ever listened to with that format, the music had 100% Godly lyrics. You knew, in less than a minute, that you were listening to a CHRISTIAN station. Wish that were true of more CCM stations, but I digress...

> Hymns (now you can really shudder!)

Oh, most definately. Wow. You think Hymns are "crap". Good gravy. I won't even go any further with this one. It speaks for itself. <

> Don't like, don't play it, don't program it. And the other
> poster was right - I AM narrowly focused on kids, because
> they are the future of the church. We don't reach them NOW
> with the programming they need, will the church even have a
> future?

Does that include teaching them *your* personal biases and bigoted attitudes, though? God help them, if it does! They look to you as a role model. If they hear you say "Turn that crap off!" (or mumble "crap" under your breath) because some kid is listening to a Spanish station... yeesh.

> But I meant it when I said I am glad you are there with your
> station for the PW fans. You would hate my programming, and
> that doesn't bother me a bit because its not aimed at you.
> Its aimed at unsaved kids.

That's fine. Just keep your bigotry to yourself... don't "poison" the minds of kids who may just happen to LIKE P&W or Inspo... like the kid I saw whose life was changed by it. If you were to make him (or her) feel stupid because they are listening to "that crap", you may as well start tying that millstone around your neck, and head for the sea.

> I think we got more in common than different - Christ and
> his Holy Spirit.

Perhaps... but I don't remember Jesus saying anything done *for Him* was "crap"!

LUKE 9:49-50 "And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. (50) And Jesus said unto him, Forbid [him] not: for he that is not against us is for us."

The only things He condemned were the hypocritical Pharisees and their actions/teachings. Everything else, if it works FOR the kingdom of God, and it's done In Jesus' Name, how can it be "crap"?!

> The only difference is the "one size fits
> all" CCM station concept. "Safe and fun for the family"
> usually = "safe and fun for the parents, (kids can go to
> hell because they don't send donations)". Sad. Really sad.

If that is REALLY the attitude of the station ownership, then I would be inclined to agree... but usually owners with attitudes like *that* don't care *what* goes on the air, as long as the money is green. They usually have their stations filled with wall-to-wall preachers, bellowing unintelligible, distorted nonsense, not CCM.

> I would hate to go to the judgement throne with that
> attitude on my heart. No matter how much business sense it
> made.

I'm sorry to say it, sir, but there are some attitudes that you have expressed here, that I wouldn't want to go to the Judgement Throne with, either.

Yes, Jesus loves the "kids", but He loves their parents, too! The kids are told, point-blank, to *obey* their parents.

EPH 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
COL 3:20 Children, obey [your] parents in all things: for this is well
pleasing unto the Lord.

That means if the parents don't want their kids listening to "rock" music, and the kids are OK with that, who are you to tell them that what they're listening to is "crap"?

> So you are more than welcome to call Christian rock, Hot AC,
> and up tempo CCM crap if you want.

Ah, but see... this is where the CHASM between us widens! Just because ***I*** don't like it, does **not** make it "crap"!!

> Its no big --- and I
> will continue to speak my mind about stuff that doesn't meet
> my spiritual needs, too.

Of course, you have the right to speak your mind. But you really should be more careful with how you exercise that right. Letting loose a stream of expletives around a 3 year old isn't exactly the smartest thing to do, nor is it a responsible use of your rights. It's still your right, but it's not a good thing to do.

Calling things that other people like (especially when those things are valid CHRISTIAN things) "crap' just because *you* don't like them is not a good use of that right, either.

As we try to teach kids... sometimes there are things that really are better left UNSAID.

> And yes, there are exceptions to
> every rule. Like your kid who got a closer walk listening
> to PW. Audiences arrange themselves into bell curves,

Granted, he may be at the end of the bell curve... but never ever forget what Jesus said about that ONE lost sheep... and the other 99. *Which* was He more concerned with????

> and I
> can counter your kid who prefers PW to the 83 year old woman
> who called cursing out my 14 year old announcer - but who
> continued to listen and called back later apologizing and
> became a fan and financial supporter!

Was she actually cursing? If so, that's terrible. Once that lady got a clue, though, she realized what was going on... she probably thought about her grandkids, and realized that the mission was worth supporting for their sake, and their peers.

I have heard from octogenarians who have said that they don't really care for some of the songs we play, but they LOVE the lyrics. What does THAT tell you? It tells me that they are *listening*! Like I said, the responses literally range form 8 to 80. GOD knows the Whole Truth, He knows whose lives have been touched, and HE ALONE deserves the Glory.

Willie...
www.mymorninglight.org

 

[rbrucecarter]

> Oh, ok... so now we see Racism added to Bigotry!

Aren't they the same? Dude - its a stinkin' foreign language. Why should I care? I mean, its on there for people that speak the language, the rest of us could care less. Its a blank spot on the dial as far as I am concerned. Why am I a bigot if I don't get excited about it? To stop being a bigot, do I have to listen to shortwave tonight and be excited about every jibberish foreign language? Its not jibberish to - them - but to me, who cares about it. It fulfills somebody's needs, not mine. Fine, let them listen. But I'm not going to listen just so I prove I'm not a bigot. I don't care about it, I don't want to care about it, I don't care that I don't care.

Incidentally - Spanish Christian music is a lot more listenable than Spanish secular. I sometimes give it about 5 minutes. Then I tune to something in English to prove I'm a bigot because I prefer my country's native language to one South of the border.

> Oh, most definately. Wow. You think Hymns are "crap".

I'll stop using the cr word if it bothers you. Boring, useless, tedious, not leading me closer to Christ - take your pick instead. It blesses somebody, let them be blessed. Not me.

> That's fine. Just keep your bigotry to yourself... don't
> "poison" the minds of kids who may just happen to LIKE P&W
> or Inspo... like the kid I saw whose life was changed by it.

Hey - I wouldn't do that. I doubt they would listen long to my program. I doubt they would stay in a youth group where everybody else likes CCM. That's fine, there's lots of ministries out there where they would be more comfortable. I wouldn't force them out or belittle them, neither would I change my style of music for the rest of the kids to accomodate one.

> If that is REALLY the attitude of the station ownership,
> then I would be inclined to agree... but usually owners with
> attitudes like *that* don't care *what* goes on the air, as
> long as the money is green. They usually have their stations
> filled with wall-to-wall preachers, bellowing
> unintelligible, distorted nonsense, not CCM.

Are we finally agreeing on something?

> Yes, Jesus loves the "kids", but He loves their parents,
> too! The kids are told, point-blank, to *obey* their
> parents.
>
> EPH 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for
> this is right.
> COL 3:20 Children, obey [your] parents in all things: for
> this is well
> pleasing unto the Lord.
>
> That means if the parents don't want their kids listening to
> "rock" music, and the kids are OK with that, who are you to
> tell them that what they're listening to is "crap"?

Quote the whole passage of scripture in context. It is a balance. I have had one or two cases where parents forbid their kids to listen to Christian rock music, and the rest of the scripture about parents not grieving their children come into play. The persecuted church sometimes, very rarely, comes to middle America when a kid is being ministered to ONLY by CCM or Christian rock, and the parents don't like it. One has to tread lightly in such circumstances, but they do occur. And usually the kid is a lot closer to Christ than their parents in such circumstances. Thankfully it is very rare these days, but it does happen. Most of the time, it is parents who end up being Mormon or Jehovah Witness - but once or twice I have seen KJV only anti-CCM types who are driving their kids nuts with their dogmatism. And more than once, the kid ends up rejecting Christ because of their parents poor witness.

> Letting loose a stream of expletives around a 3 year
> old isn't exactly the smartest thing to do,

I wasn't aware we had 3 year olds on this board. I shall endeavor not to use the cr word - which I wasn't aware was profanity.

> Calling things that other people like (especially when those
> things are valid CHRISTIAN things) "crap' just because *you*
> don't like them is not a good use of that right, either.

To me, it wasn't as strong a word as it seems to be to you.

> Granted, he may be at the end of the bell curve... but never
> ever forget what Jesus said about that ONE lost sheep... and
> the other 99. *Which* was He more concerned with????

ALL. He wants all. If the one strays, he wants it back. I may program to the 99. If the one calls in and objects, I'll do my best to direct them to resources that help them - another station with their type of music. I won't abandon the 99 to go after the 1, however. I don't think that is what Jesus was saying/

> Was she actually cursing? If so, that's terrible.

Poor Kara! She had never heard such language in her life.

> I have heard from octogenarians who have said that they
> don't really care for some of the songs we play, but they
> LOVE the lyrics. What does THAT tell you? It tells me that
> they are *listening*! Like I said, the responses literally
> range form 8 to 80. GOD knows the Whole Truth, He knows
> whose lives have been touched, and HE ALONE deserves the
> Glory.

Agree there ---

 

[MorningLight]

> > Oh, ok... so now we see Racism added to Bigotry!
>
> Aren't they the same?

Not necessarily. One can be bigoted against others of their own race. Racism is self-explanatory.

> Dude - its a stinkin' foreign
> language. Why should I care?

You don't have to *care*... you don't have to disparage it, either.

> Why am I a bigot if I don't get excited about
> it?

You don't have to be excited about it. I'm not excited about it, but I also don't insult it or call it names.

> To stop being a bigot, do I have to listen to shortwave
> tonight and be excited about every jibberish foreign
> language?

LOL! You can if you want to!

> Its not jibberish to - them - but to me, who
> cares about it. It fulfills somebody's needs, not mine.
> Fine, let them listen. But I'm not going to listen just so
> I prove I'm not a bigot.

You don't have to listen to it. Just don't disparage it and call it (and by extension, it's speakers) insulting names.

> I don't care about it, I don't
> want to care about it, I don't care that I don't care.

Like I said... you don't have to *care*. Just stop insulting it or putting it on your "crap" list.

> I tune to something in English to prove I'm
> a bigot because I prefer my country's native language to one
> South of the border.

I prefer it, too... but that's not the test of a bigot. Calling it insulting, denigrating names sure sounds like bigotry, though.

> I'll stop using the cr word if it bothers you. Boring,
> useless, tedious, not leading me closer to Christ - take
> your pick instead. It blesses somebody, let them be
> blessed. Not me.

While I do admit that there are some renditions of hymns that I, too, find "boring", that doesn't make them "crap".

Note: any denigrating word can be substiuted for "crap"... like "Garbage", etc. It's not so much the actual word, "crap" that is the problem. It's the ATTITUDE behind it that so deeply troubles me. <

"Hymns are Useless"... another wonderful example of a terrible attitude. Frightening. I can't imagine it... the words in most hymns are solid, theologically, and very sound doctrinally. Yet you call that useless? Wow! Frightening! <

Hymns do not have to be sung in Gregorian Chant, or choir & pipe organ. There are some very contemporary versions of hymns available that can, and do catch younger ears. Are those "useless crap" also???

> I doubt they would listen long to
> my program. I doubt they would stay in a youth group where
> everybody else likes CCM.

They would, if that group didn't BELITTLE them for it! Not *all* CCM is filled with distorted guitars and played at ear-splitting decibels.

> I wouldn't force them out or belittle them, neither would I
> change my style of music for the rest of the kids to
> accomodate one.

Calling their music "crap" (or "garbage", or "useless", etc.) is certainly belittling.

> > stations
> > filled with wall-to-wall preachers, bellowing
> > unintelligible, distorted nonsense, not CCM.
>
> Are we finally agreeing on something?

Possibly...

> it does happen. Most of the time, it is parents who end up
> being Mormon or Jehovah Witness - but once or twice I have

Well, they aren't even Christians, then. Even more important, then, to show those kids the softer side of Christian music, in an effort to show their parents the love of Christ, with the ultimate goal being to set them free from the clutches of those cults.

> seen KJV only anti-CCM types who are driving their kids nuts
> with their dogmatism. And more than once, the kid ends up
> rejecting Christ because of their parents poor witness.

There's the rub: A parent's poor witness. If the parents LIVE the life they proclaim, show consistency in their Christian walks, and also show love, then even if they may be too narrow and restrictive, at least their kids are seeing a consistent and stable family life. If the parents practice what they preach, then those kids have a very good liklihood of carrying on in their parents footsteps. If the parents are hypocrites (of ANY stripe) then the kids are almost certain to go 180 degrees opposite from their parents.

> I wasn't aware we had 3 year olds on this board. I shall
> endeavor not to use the cr word - which I wasn't aware was
> profanity.

I wasn't talking literally. i was making the case that just becase we have a right to say whatever we want, doesn't necessarily mean that we SHOULD. There are cases where guarding one's tongue is the most prudent course of action. (Proverbs sure says a lot about that!)

> > Calling things that other people like (especially when
> those
> > things are valid CHRISTIAN things) "crap' just because
> *you*
> > don't like them is not a good use of that right, either.
>
> To me, it wasn't as strong a word as it seems to be to you.

The word, itself, is not really the issue. It's your ATTITUDE... that would even think to call something YOU don't like such a disparaging name, ("crap" , "garbage" etc) with no regard for the feelings of others who may be in "earshot". (Or in this case, Worldwide.)

> ALL. He wants all. If the one strays, he wants it back. I

Right. And He will go out and get that one, while the 99 stay in the pen.

> may program to the 99. If the one calls in and objects,
> I'll do my best to direct them to resources that help them -
> another station with their type of music.

As long as it's not something like, "I'm sorry, Ma'am, we don't play that crap here. If you really want to, you can listen to that garbage on W--- (or K---). Good bye."

Seriously, this is the kind of attitude I see coming from you, based on what I have been reading on this board. It troubles me deeply.

> I won't abandon
> the 99 to go after the 1, however.

Jesus did... although He did not "abandon" them, He DID leave them in the pen, to go retrieve the one that wandered away.

> I don't think that is
> what Jesus was saying/

We don't have to "think" anything... it's spelled out in perfect black-and-white what He meant, and did.

This has been an interesting exchange. The only reason I even went this far with it, is because it really troubles me that you would be so callous as to use insulting, denigrating terms to describe things (even Godly things) that you just don't happen to care for. That insults and hurts a lot of people, many of whom would not take the time to speak up. I could not let that pass by without at least TRYING to hold up a mirror for you, to see that your words (out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks) are HURTFUL and INSULTING to your Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

Remember: Just because ***YOU*** don't like something, does *NOT* make it "crap" or "useless" or whatever. When you say things like that, it does NOT show an attitude of love or humilty AT ALL!

I really, humbly would ask that you take this up with the Lord, and allow Him to show you a more Christlike way to express your feeings and tastes in the presence of others.

Willie...

 

[rbrucecarter]

> You don't have to *care*... you don't have to disparage it,
> either.

I think a key issue here is that you think I disparage these things to people's faces. I don't. Why would I purposely seek to offend?

I am just narrowly focused on the things I do best. Point taken, I shouldn't have called them "crap" to you - even if they are to me. We have a difference in personality and style. I don't revere things that are of no use to my walk.
As far as PW - there is some up-tempo stuff on PW CD's I wouldn't hesitate to play. Its the ponderous, slow stuff that I don't play or like. Same with hymns. Love the lyrics, hate the presentation. I am gonna make fun of somebody who does? No - it blesses them, that's a good thing. It doesn't bless me, so to me its useless. I won't play it. And a grateful audience is glad I don't. If they want PW, I'll be happy to POLITELY direct them to an outlet. I won't play it to please one listener, because the other 99 will hit the pushbutton to the secular rock station. I won't open up the pen and let the sheep scatter while I go after the one. The best way of helping the one is to sympathetically tell them to switch to another station.

> Remember: Just because ***YOU*** don't like something, does
> *NOT* make it "crap" or "useless" or whatever. When you say
> things like that, it does NOT show an attitude of love or
> humilty AT ALL!

It IS useles - to me! And to my audience. I'm glad its there for people that like it, but its not serving me or my listeners. So - its uselss to me and my audience. The Lord can be using it mightily - to reach others - and that's good. But he is using me as well. No "one size fits all" station here, there's lots of room for more than one. And I won't pretend the PW fans love Christian rock. That's fine, they don't have to - listen to another station.

Again with hymns. Love the words - hate the presentation. Useless to me and my audience, it doesn't draw us closer to the Lord. It blesses somebody, but it's not us. If that's a bad attitude, I am sorry. But that's the way it is. I retain focus right where it is needed, on the audience segment I serve. You do likewise. And both audience segments have their spiritual needs met.

 

[robroy]

> >Bruce, I am quite curious to know what type(s) of music you scripturally ascribe to and utilize during your personal times with the Lord. And, when discipling youth, what type(s) of godly music do you recommend to them to incorporate into their private times of worship? Thanks - have a great day!

 

[rbrucecarter]

> > >Bruce, I am quite curious to know what type(s) of music
> you scripturally ascribe to and utilize during your personal
> times with the Lord. And, when discipling youth, what
> type(s) of godly music do you recommend to them to
> incorporate into their private times of worship? Thanks -
> have a great day!

During church - the upbeat contemporary style of the worship band. During personal quiet time - none at all. Any music at that time detracts. For entertainment, Hot-AC CCM and Christian rock.

As far as discipling youth, I generally know a lot about the person before I share Christ with them, and make recommendations based on their current style of music. The overwhelming majority like hip-hop, which is a big problem because there is not a Christian equivalent. So I guide them to Christian rock / Hot-AC. And hope that the lure of the world doesn't guide them back into secular music - because it is a POWERFUL influence. I have not encountered very many cases of young people who actually prefer AC or classical - or have an objection to CCM. The only one I can remember became an announcer on my show, and transitioned from anti-CCM to big fan! All I did was ask her to come to the station to babysit - one thing led to another - and radio star was born. I remember asking her - are you sure you want to do this because I remember you said one time you didn't like this music. And she said that was before she knew us - and the music - well.

 

[RDP]

> > > >Bruce, I am quite curious to know what type(s) of music
>
> > you scripturally ascribe to and utilize during your
> personal
> > times with the Lord. And, when discipling youth, what
> > type(s) of godly music do you recommend to them to
> > incorporate into their private times of worship? Thanks -
> > have a great day!
>
> During church - the upbeat contemporary style of the worship
> band. During personal quiet time - none at all. Any music
> at that time detracts. For entertainment, Hot-AC CCM and
> Christian rock.
>
> As far as discipling youth, I generally know a lot about the
> person before I share Christ with them, and make
> recommendations based on their current style of music. The
> overwhelming majority like hip-hop, which is a big problem
> because there is not a Christian equivalent. So I guide
> them to Christian rock / Hot-AC. And hope that the lure of
> the world doesn't guide them back into secular music -
> because it is a POWERFUL influence. I have not encountered
> very many cases of young people who actually prefer AC or
> classical - or have an objection to CCM. The only one I can
> remember became an announcer on my show, and transitioned
> from anti-CCM to big fan! All I did was ask her to come to
> the station to babysit - one thing led to another - and
> radio star was born. I remember asking her - are you sure
> you want to do this because I remember you said one time you
> didn't like this music. And she said that was before she
> knew us - and the music - well.
>
Hey Mr. Bruce,

There are many Gospel Hip Hop performers out.

Here is a list of some of the more well known performers:

The Cross Movement
The Ambassador from Cross Movement
Phantik from Cross Movement
TobyMac
T-Bone
Holy Hip Hop Vol 1-2 (Vol 3 soon to be released)
Souljahz
dj Maj
John Reuben
Grits
Higher Ground Soundtrack (Featuring many different Gospel Hip-Hop artists)

Hope this list will get you started and help out.

RDP <><

P.S. Hope you will have continued success with everything you are involved with.

Also, if you are looking for a great Hymns CD with a Modern sound, please check out Hymned V.1 by Bart Millard (Lead singer for MercyMe). You will love it.

 

[rbrucecarter]

Thanks for the heads-up! The kids will love it.

 

[MorningLight]

> I think a key issue here is that you think I disparage these
> things to people's faces. I don't. Why would I purposely
> seek to offend?

Because on a very public Forum, you used very disparaging terms to describe things that many people not only care about, but revere and consider sacred.

> I am just narrowly focused on the things I do best. Point
> taken, I shouldn't have called them "crap" to you - even if
> they are to me. We have a difference in personality and
> style. I don't revere things that are of no use to my walk.

You didn't call it that to me, personally... but you said it in a very public, open Forum. I was so shocked, that I had to step up and share my feelings and thoughts on the matter... I simply could not just let it pass, unchallenged.

I have strong disagreements with certain mainline denominational religious doctrines and practices. (Most Christians would, actually.) However, I would NEVER think of calling such things "crap". It would only serve to severely offend and alienate MANY people. People who, with all sincerity, hold such things and/or practices as sacred.

To me, the act of Praising and Worshipping our Precious Lord and Savior is a very sacred act. The use of music is an integral part of this. You publiclay disparaged the style of music that many Christians, myself included, use for this very act. That was shocking. That is why I "shuddered"... then you went on to "capitalize" on that, and maybe even poke fun at it. I don't know your heart, I can only read your words. (Which Scripture tells us flow from the abundance of one's heart.) What I saw was most disturbing. It gave me the impression (Please, correct me if I am wrong) that you are VERY prideful and arrogant. You even challenged me to a "one-upmanship", which I soundly refused, and thankfully, you didn't pursue further.

> As far as PW - there is some up-tempo stuff on PW CD's I
> wouldn't hesitate to play. Its the ponderous, slow stuff
> that I don't play or like. Same with hymns. Love the
> lyrics, hate the presentation.

Ok, everyone's tastes are different... but just because YOU dislike it, doesn't make it "crap" or "garbage", etc.

> I am gonna make fun of
> somebody who does? No - it blesses them, that's a good
> thing.

Well, calling it "crap", (or any other harsh word) is a pretty demeaning, insulting thing. It's essentially attacking what others consider sacred.

> It doesn't bless me, so to me its useless.

That's the attitude that is so troubling. Just because it doesn't bless YOU, it's "useless". <

Even though I abhor "rap" and "rock", I still don't call them "useless". Why? Because young people are, and have been, reached with the Gospel through them. I won't listen to it, becuase I can't stand it... but that does NOT give me the right to call it "useless" or "crap", etc. because MY opinion is just that... MY opinion. It has no bearing on the validity of the object about which I am opining.

> I won't play it. And a grateful audience is glad I don't.

I could say the same thing, in spades!

Years ago, we had a "rock' show on the station. A small handful of listeners liked it, but *many* did not. It was eventually removed. Nobody complained about it's removal.

> If they
> want PW, I'll be happy to POLITELY direct them to an outlet.

That's good to know. I had gotten the impression from what you had written, here, that your attitude would be one of disapproval; "Why would you want to listen to that crap?!" even if not spoken, probably thought.

> I won't play it to please one listener, because the other
> 99 will hit the pushbutton to the secular rock station.

The opposite being true, here. Play that hard stuff, and 99 will scatter.

> I won't open up the pen and let the sheep scatter while I go
> after the one. The best way of helping the one is to
> sympathetically tell them to switch to another station.

That is reasonable, and commendable.

> It IS useles - to me! And to my audience. I'm glad its
> there for people that like it, but its not serving me or my
> listeners. So - its uselss to me and my audience.

Don't be so sure it's "useless" to your audience! That's the arrogance, again! There may well be members of your audience who happen to LIKE that music IN ADDITION TO your style. They may, in fact, spend part of the time listening to your station, AND to the mellower one. It may be of no interest to YOU, but that doesn't make it universal! That is the attitude that seems to keep coming across, here: "If *I* dislike it, then NOBODY ELSE should like it, either!"

> The Lord
> can be using it mightily - to reach others - and that's
> good.

Oh, I can assure you that He most certainly ***DOES!!!*** I also know that He uses the "harsher" styles of music to reach others, also. Therefore, you will NOT see me call it "useless", no matter how distasteful it is to *me*. Opinions are like belly buttons. EVERYONE has one, and they are all unique.

> But he is using me as well. No "one size fits all"
> station here, there's lots of room for more than one.

That's fine. Do what God calls you to do.
> Again with hymns. Love the words - hate the presentation.

Right. But calling their music "crap" , "garbage" , or "useless" is just SO DEMEANING and arrogant!! That is why I addressed this topic in the first place! <

> Useless to me and my audience, it doesn't draw us closer to
> the Lord. It blesses somebody, but it's not us.

Are you so SURE that your ENTIRE AUDIENCE feels this way?! I would be a fool to make the assumption that my ENTIRE AUDIENCE hates "rock" or "rap" as much as I do! There may well be a number of listeners who like it... they know that they won't get it here, so they listen to CD's or whatever. (We only have TWO Christian stations in this state, plus an LPFM far away that plays what you play.)

> If that's
> a bad attitude, I am sorry. But that's the way it is.

Well, it *is* a bad attitude! What did Jesus say?...

MAT 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged.
MAT 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
MAT 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"

> I retain focus right where it is needed, on the audience
> segment I serve. You do likewise. And both audience
> segments have their spiritual needs met.

Right. Yours isn't "useless crap" and neither is mine.

ROMANS 14:4-5 "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? To his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (5) One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."

Willie...

 

[Retro]

> You want to program that stuff - fine - its your station.
> Every time I put the station on the CCM station here,
> everybody is fine with the music. Until the "spiritual
> medicine" comes on. If its kids in my car, my own kid, even
> my wife - something plodding comes on, it over to Radio
> Disney, or the oldies, or Jack FM. Songs that are very
> meaningful in church on Sunday morning - fall flat as
> entertainment. You want to live in some alternate version
> of reality and think that teens will gratefully flock to
> your station as you play something with 60 beats a minute in
> "acceptable" 4:4 rhythm, fine. It don't make it so - there
> are 17 other FM presets on most car radios, and no teen I
> know will waste the time listening to that stuff.
>
> It is darn hard for us youth pastors to get kids to even try
> Christian radio, when the anti-Christian rock, anti-CCM
> activists pollute every single station with their musical
> ideas. Give me a no compromise HOT-AC / Christian rock
> station, and I have a real chance at getting kids and young
> professionals to break the secular radio habit. Otherwise,
> every P&W song that comes on triggers and exodous back to
> secular radio stations, with disasterous spiritual
> consequences.
>
> I said it before and I'll say it again - I really hope every
> market has a PW station for people like you to listen to.
> Its not my cup of tea, I am only 51 and I was raised on rock
> and roll - I can't understand or worship to slow boring
> stuff. It doesn't excite the spirit of true worship in me.
> So you have your station, I'll have mine, there won't be
> much cross listening, and therefore no competition for
> listeners. And both groups of listeners will be reached for
> Christ. Which one is better? Depends entirely on your
> musical taste, doesn't it? And that has absolutely nothing
> to do with spiritual maturity as you have implied elsewhere.
> I'll put my ministry up against yours any day, hours of
> quiet time, scripture memorized, salavations resulted -
> whatever measure you want - bring it!
>

I'm sorry, whats the target demo? Maybe 12-17 year old's dispise P&W, however the 18+ crowd do like it. Also, when I say Praise and Worship, I mean Hillsongs, current Vineyard, etc. I do not mean music that does not jive with the format.

 

[rbrucecarter]

THREAD CLOSED

I thought that this thread was pretty well resolved and tried to end it on a positive note. I apologized to you for using the cr word to describe something you regard highly. I even tried to find common ground with you on topics of mutal interest. I can do no more than I have already done to resolve the issue in a Christlike fashion.

 

[MorningLight]

FINE. It's CLOSED.

> I thought that this thread was pretty well resolved and
> tried to end it on a positive note.

As did I.

> I apologized to you for
> using the cr word to describe something you regard highly.

Not *just* me, but fine.

Willie...

 

[MorningLight]

> I'm sorry, whats the target demo? Maybe 12-17 year old's
> dispise P&W, however the 18+ crowd do like it. Also, when I
> say Praise and Worship, I mean Hillsongs, current Vineyard,
> etc. I do not mean music that does not jive with the format.
>

He just posted that the thread is closed. So, to him, I guess it is. It still bothers me, though. <

You are absolutely right. The point I tried to make with the Brother was that it is wrong to publicly call something "useless" or "crap" (or any other insulting, derrogatory word) just because *he* dislikes it.

There is a wide diversity of people out there. Diferent things will minister to different people. That doesn't make one or another better than some other... not "crap", not "useless"... just DIFFERENT.

Willie...