A radio format for 55-72? Could it work?

[Greg Goodfellow]

1955-72

Our high school radio station plays a lot of oldies, particulary 60-80s as part of our variety approach. We have several show hosts that allow us to use their exceptional programming, which is not duplicated anywhere in our area. If you are such a station, especially if you stream, you are an oasis in the perceived wasteland (yes, I do put on top 40/ Hot AC/Country beginning at 7 p.m. each weekday. Commercial stations will probably avoid this time period like COVID-19, but we at WRSG embrace it. Much of our weekend programming is devoted to 60s-80s music as well.

Sincerely,

Greg Goodfellow
WRSG RADIO/wrsgradio.com Station Manager

 

[Brian Bowers]

Just in case anyone wants to sample Sebastian's Wow Factor format, it's on Arizona's (serving the Phoenix area) KOAI (https://951thewowfactor.com/). I must admit, I was expecting something just a bit more un-predictive. Not a bad mix (I've even heard some country mixed in), but having only listened for 10 minutes, I'm not sure how repetitive the playlist is from day to day. Now if they have a library of 1000 songs (or more), I might be able to stomach it.

 

[TheBigA]

Just in case anyone wants to sample Sebastian's Wow Factor format

The purists hate it because he plays some remixes rather than original versions.

 

[davideduardo]

Just in case anyone wants to sample Sebastian's Wow Factor format, it's on Arizona's (serving the Phoenix area) KOAI (https://951thewowfactor.com/). I must admit, I was expecting something just a bit more un-predictive. Not a bad mix (I've even heard some country mixed in), but having only listened for 10 minutes, I'm not sure how repetitive the playlist is from day to day. Now if they have a library of 1000 songs (or more), I might be able to stomach it.

Even the Jack stations (and clones) don't play 1000 song libraries. It is ratings-proven, over and over, that such a large list is a kiss of death.

 

[Stress]

Now if they have a library of 1000 songs (or more), I might be able to stomach it.

Personally, listening to a lot of radio daily, I feel the same. There are two problems with most stations, in my unpopular view--overly repetitive, and no personality.

Hearing the same songs from a genre day after day in a 500-or-less playlist makes me turn off after a week. Having lived through the 70s-upward, I still enjoy the music, but repetition after hearing these songs 2000x before leaves me bored. In my area I notice stations with a larger playlist tend to do better, but not great. The problem is that these stations mix genre pretty wildly, so you could be hearing the Carpenters next to Great White next to My Chemical Romance next to Elton John next to Jim Croce. It isn't jarring.... actually, yes it is. Going from an 80s synth song to something orchestrally backed to distorted guitars and simple chords of the 80s hair bands just seems weird. I found one channel that gives itself over to a pop hits radio syndication show on the weekends (forget the name of that show) and it plays top-40 of any type from perhaps 1955-2010(?) and it sounds excellent. I hear a lot of familiars and a LOT of new stuff from the old days I didn't hear at the time because these songs never breached the top 20 or even top 30. Pay they don't run it all week long, but opt for diverse country and farm reports.

Personality is a no-brainer, and no stations I have heard in the past two decades have it. I've travelled all over the USA and generally listen in New York/Los Angeles/Philly/midwest. The lack of DJs is sad, but not horrible. It just seems a waste than most stations have two modes of DJ (radio personality): minimal and title readers, or long-winded potty jokers... or maybe even worse--long-winded dull-witted space fillers. Character is always missing. They will hire a hot girl to be a DJ or sidekick, but the woman is never actually HOT to listen to. The guys tend to be clinging to the mike and doing little more than talking about televisions shows they watched to night before or mired in trivia few probably care to hear. For the 55+ boomer crowd, it would easy to combine popular boomer music with a boomer character that takes it to 11 and leaves you feeling as if you looked through a window to a vivid past or boomer experiences and boomer attitude.

 

[TheBigA]

Personally, listening to a lot of radio daily, I feel the same. There are two problems with most stations, in my unpopular view--overly repetitive, and no personality.

Depends on what you call personality. The music has its own personality, and if you listen for music, then you don't want anything to interrupt the music. If you want human personality, you'll get that all day on talk radio. Non-stop personality 24/7. No interruptions.

As for repetition, that's what makes a song a hit. If you look at Top 40 stations over the 65 year history, the format was play a small group of songs over and over. That's why people listen. They want to hear their favorite songs over and over. If you study streaming charts and usage of streaming services, when people are able to make their own playlists, the vast majority of personal playlists are less than 100 songs that they play over and over.

However, if the goal is to appeal to boomers, that approach won't work. But national advertisers don't use music to reach that demo. They use news/talk radio. Which is why only a small number of music stations attempt to reach this group.

 

[Kelly A]

Simple answer: No.

 

[seatownmedia]

I wonder how Sirius 70’s channel does in comparison with their 80’s or 90’s channel. Granted they go pretty deep here (which I actually like), but as a former radio pd I am not a good sample. As in, “yeah we need to play Faith by George Michael in power because it tests well”. Barf.

 

[davideduardo]

However, if the goal is to appeal to boomers, that approach won't work. But national advertisers don't use music to reach that demo. They use news/talk radio. Which is why only a small number of music stations attempt to reach this group.

National advertisers are not the prime source of revenue for news/talk. They are way too sensitive to the spectrum from Stern to Rush. Stations like KFI depend a lot more on local accounts, particularly where the owner is a listener or is sympathetic to the content and not scared by association with the outspoken hosts.

Those news-talkers that get good 25-54 numbers get some agency business nationally, and usually a lot of local agency business. But the ones that are too heavy in the 55+ receive a double whammy: rejection by national accounts of the content and no buys against 55 and over.

The reason why many news-talkers do well in revenue is that they sell cheaper because of the demos, but they run 4 to 6 minutes more ad time than music stations in the market.

 

[davideduardo]

For the 55+ boomer crowd, it would easy to combine popular boomer music with a boomer character that takes it to 11 and leaves you feeling as if you looked through a window to a vivid past or boomer experiences and boomer attitude.

This part of your multi-faceted post first:

There is not enough revenue to sustain a station that is purely 55+ targeted. Advertisers, including most local direct ones, know that it is really tough to change the habits of seniors and the cost of doing so is greater than the profit.

The exception is with products that we age into as we get older. But those tend to be national brands and they usually work better in visual media, so they don't use radio.

 

[davideduardo]

Hearing the same songs from a genre day after day in a 500-or-less playlist makes me turn off after a week. Having lived through the 70s-upward, I still enjoy the music, but repetition after hearing these songs 2000x before leaves me bored. In my area I notice stations with a larger playlist tend to do better, but not great.

I have said this before, but I've never been beaten by a station that played a bigger playlist than I did.

In a recent case of classic rock in a market of about 18 million, we managed to get up to around a 20 to 22 share each month with an "under 600" playlist. Within a year, a competitor with an equal technical facility put on a station with about 1,800 songs and vigorously promoted that they played three times as many songs.

We had done lots of research to find the format, perfect the formula and to select the music... even an on-air music test with a page in the largest local news paper (circulation: 1.2 million) where we got back nearly 300 thousand completed forms. There were less than 600 songs that would not cause some part of the potential audience to tune out.

The other station was playing 2/3 stiffs and 1/3 songs everyone who liked the format actually liked. So, everyone heard one or two songs they hated out of every song they played. Then never got above a low 1 share, and we kept on being #1. 20 years later, with the same formula but little ongoing research, they are still top 5 in a 200 station market.

 

[CTListener]

I have said this before, but I've never been beaten by a station that played a bigger playlist than I did.

In a recent case of classic rock in a market of about 18 million, we managed to get up to around a 20 to 22 share each month with an "under 600" playlist. Within a year, a competitor with an equal technical facility put on a station with about 1,800 songs and vigorously promoted that they played three times as many songs.

We had done lots of research to find the format, perfect the formula and to select the music... even an on-air music test with a page in the largest local news paper (circulation: 1.2 million) where we got back nearly 300 thousand completed forms. There were less than 600 songs that would not cause some part of the potential audience to tune out.

The other station was playing 2/3 stiffs and 1/3 songs everyone who liked the format actually liked. So, everyone heard one or two songs they hated out of every song they played. Then never got above a low 1 share, and we kept on being #1. 20 years later, with the same formula but little ongoing research, they are still top 5 in a 200 station market.

Was this in a domestic market or one in Central America, South America or the Caribbean? Or is the same lowest-common-denominator approach a foolproof path to ratings superiority anywhere commercial radio exists?

 

[davideduardo]

Was this in a domestic market or one in Central America, South America or the Caribbean? Or is the same lowest-common-denominator approach a foolproof path to ratings superiority anywhere commercial radio exists?

It was an Emmis station in Buenos Aires. There are no markets of 18 million in the Caribbean or Central America.

My point is that in every format there is a finite library size, beyond which if you add more songs you are adding stiffs. I consulted the start-up of a pop music station in Pakistan some time back. The same formula worked there, too.

For 25 years I was involved with AC KLVE in LA... during most of that time it was the #1 or #2 Spanish language station and in the first 15 years it was often the market's #1 or #2 station. It had an all-Spanish music playlist that was, interestingly, about the same size as that of English language AC KOST.

The reason Top 40 was called just that for nearly three decades is that such stations played 30 to 40 songs, with multiple levels of rotation. Add any more, and your audience evaporates. Country, AC, Urban, rock and other formats all have optimum size.

Even Classic Hits has a best size... KRTH has had its best year ever of recent, with a list of under 400 songs.

A station that does research will easily find how many acceptable and well liked songs there are for their format at any given time. As years go by, the incoming younger demos may force out some of the oldest songs and be receptive to some younger ones. But in general, library size is finite and going beyond a certain point for "variety" or "less repetition" is destructive.

 

[TheBigA]

National advertisers are not the prime source of revenue for news/talk. They are way too sensitive to the spectrum from Stern to Rush.

Since Stern is no longer on broadcast radio, that is a false flag. The sensitivity is 100% on the conservative side.

There are several types of news/talk stations. The all-syndicated news/talkers run a lot of national advertising. Half is the barter from the syndicator, the other half typically comes from a network they station affiliates with for news and spots. These are also typically low rated, so there's not much appeal to local advertisers.

 

[davideduardo]

Since Stern is no longer on broadcast radio, that is a false flag. The sensitivity is 100% on the conservative side.

No, it is a perfect flag as Stern was running into more and more advertiser resistance when still on terrestrial radio. Sales managers for some of the Stern affiliates complained that they had a hard time finding "other than pawn shops and bail bondsmen" as clients (and, of course, that is an exaggeration) and the prospects were getting more and more limited because advertisers were becoming leery of controversial talk shows.

There are several types of news/talk stations. The all-syndicated news/talkers run a lot of national advertising. Half is the barter from the syndicator, the other half typically comes from a network they station affiliates with for news and spots. These are also typically low rated, so there's not much appeal to local advertisers.

And those low rated stations bill horribly.

There is a common belief here that a station with "lots of spots" is very profitable. In fact, those spots may be sold very cheap, and if the programming is from a network, they may be bonusing many just to fill the breaks.

 

[TheBigA]

No, it is a perfect flag as Stern was running into more and more advertiser resistance when still on terrestrial radio.

Which was 15 years ago, not now. I'm talking about now. Now when I see national do not buy lists, ALL of the shows listed are conservative talk shows. ALL of them.

And those low rated stations bill horribly.

As they should. But once again, I'm responding to the comment that national advertising is not the prime source of revenue for news/talk, and I said that it depends on the station. There are some that are VERY dependent on national advertising.

 

[Kelly A]

Which was 15 years ago, not now. I'm talking about now. Now when I see national do not buy lists, ALL of the shows listed are conservative talk shows. ALL of them.

Sweet!

I'm responding to the comment that national advertising is not the prime source of revenue for news/talk, and I said that it depends on the station. There are some that are VERY dependent on national advertising.

For nationally syndicated shows, makes perfect sense. Depending on the show, local avails may be three or four an hour.

 

[gr8oldies]

Sweet!

For nationally syndicated shows, makes perfect sense. Depending on the show, local avails may be three or four an hour.

Sports betting appears to be the savior of both news and sports talk formats.

 

[TheBigA]

Sports betting appears to be the savior of both news and sports talk formats.

And perhaps the entire broadcasting business. I see that the CEO of Bally's is now an investor in Cumulus.

Soo Kim’s Latest Investment? A Reborn Radio Giant | Radio & Television Business Report

Soohyung Kim has become known for his Standard General's equity interest in TEGNA and for his partnership in New York with Jeff Smulyan that involves Hot 97 and WBLS. Now, it's become known that Kim has attributable interest in the radio broadcasting company led by Mary Berner.

www.rbr.com

 

[CTListener]

And perhaps the entire broadcasting business. I see that the CEO of Bally's is now an investor in Cumulus.

Soo Kim’s Latest Investment? A Reborn Radio Giant | Radio & Television Business Report

Soohyung Kim has become known for his Standard General's equity interest in TEGNA and for his partnership in New York with Jeff Smulyan that involves Hot 97 and WBLS. Now, it's become known that Kim has attributable interest in the radio broadcasting company led by Mary Berner.

www.rbr.com

Is conventional wisdom that sports betting will become legal nationwide soon? I ask because it is having a surprisingly difficult time getting approved in Connecticut and Massachusetts, where you'd think it would have a much easier time than in the Deep South, Midwest and Mountain West (except for Colorado). New York sports radio is full of sports betting ads, but they all have the "New Jersey residents only" disclaimer slapped on them.