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A sad commentary on the state of radio
- Thread starter nd2023
- Start date
SoulCrusher said:The music that plays on Top 40 stations couldn't be further away from what an adult wants to hear. Start with the exclusion of pretty much all music from before, say, 2004 or so. Go on to song titles that evoke pure juvenilia ("Imma Be", "Shake That Bubble", "Sexy Chick", etc.). Let's not forget the high percentage of acts that rely on pitch correction or vocoder to put their voices in tune - also not something that many adults want to hear. Finally, all you have to do is listen to a song from one of the following acts: Ke$ha, Miley Cyrus, Boys Like Girls, Cobra Starship, Britney Spears, etc.: All are music for children, with absolutely zero appeal to adults. And I'll say it again: We have seven stations that these descriptions apply to completely. You don't think broadcasters are going after children? Think again.
Actually, I'm going to suggest that, empirically, adults are *absolutely* listening to that - especially adult women - though the younger-skewing artists (Miley) wear thin fast.
By "empirically", I mean "in my neighborhood filled with soccer/dance moms and sports dads". Since I'm the guy with the music collection, it generally falls to me to program the music, and of course (since I'm always asked for it) I've done a bit on my own to contribute to sales of hit music.
Incidentally, not only does iTunes make it easy to acquire new tracks mid-party, it also, through iTunes DJ, makes it easy to have a true jukebox environment, where more than one person has the ability to influence the mix, because everyone that has a iPhone or an iPod Touch can use Apple Remote to queue up requests, as long as they're connected to my WiFi cloud. (Every party - and there's one every Friday night somewhere in the neighborhood during the summer - usually makes iTunes about $5. Yes, it's a good neighborhood.)
[For the curious, between iTunes and the speakers, there's a C. Crane FM transmitter and a few cheap portable FM receivers scattered around the backyard. If you're within 100 feet of my house, you'll hear us on 103.9 MHz, but we haven't shown up in the book. Yet.]
Now then, I don't think that the entire assemblage wants to hear Hit Music (it's really actually a genre of its own now, isn't it?) In fact, some of the wags with access to the queuing system throw in some Pantera just to keep us on our toes, though I have to say my addition of La Roux's "Bulletproof" last summer got some traction. But the fact is that the wives in the neighborhood (who, empirically, generally don't have the iPhones) pressure the husbands (who - again, empirically - generally do have the iPhones) to queue up Black Eyed Peas, Beyonce, Katy Perry and Pitbull when they're not queueing American Pie, The Time Warp and Paradise By The Dashboard Light.
(I keep threatening to make this a format, by the way. Yes, we embarrass the kids.)
To make a long story short (too late) I definitely think adults, especially adult women, are listening to Hit Radio tracks. Whether they listen to them on the radio, and whether that listenership is really enough to support SEVEN hit stations in the area is for the market to decide.
Oh, one more thing: Lady Gaga is a genius. I say that without reservation or equivocation.
sethjamz said:Right on HubCity, well said!!! I rest my case.
Well, you made the same case that I did - adults are definitely listening to Hit Radio. The question is - how many hit radio stations are too many, and are there enough people in the market to support an Alternative station. I'm making a bet (with other peoples money, my favorite kind of bet) that the latter is true. I wouldn't want to start a Hit station in this market now, and I think Press made exactly the wrong move in creating one, even though their execution since then has been stellar. That execution may save them.
SoulCrusher said:sethjamz said:The younger audience does not have the "spending power" that a more mature crowd does. Thats why these owners do what they do.
Hubcity said it...itunes, mp3 players etc give the younger audiences what they want, so why program a station to compete with the fact that the younger demos have to many choices and can't stay focused on radio because they are too busy with hooking up, video games, partying, watching stupid reality shows etc. I don't know many owner groups who buy stations to air what they think the "kids" want, they air programming that some consultant says will make them money, and with times like these, can they really afford not too?
They (owners) are catering to who pays their bills right now. It's truley business, the bottom line, MONEY!
Come again? Take a listen to one of the myriad Top 40 stations that we have around here. I know this doesn't go for everyone, but I took the time to count every Top 40 station that puts a decent signal into Southern Ocean County - the number I came up with was seven, loud and clear (WJLK, WAYV, WRDW, WZBZ, WIOQ, WSJO, WBBO - and before anyone questions some of my inclusions, I'll point out that Hot AC is now a slightly more adult-leaning CHR).
The music that plays on Top 40 stations couldn't be further away from what an adult wants to hear. Start with the exclusion of pretty much all music from before, say, 2004 or so. Go on to song titles that evoke pure juvenilia ("Imma Be", "Shake That Bubble", "Sexy Chick", etc.). Let's not forget the high percentage of acts that rely on pitch correction or vocoder to put their voices in tune - also not something that many adults want to hear. Finally, all you have to do is listen to a song from one of the following acts: Ke$ha, Miley Cyrus, Boys Like Girls, Cobra Starship, Britney Spears, etc.: All are music for children, with absolutely zero appeal to adults. And I'll say it again: We have seven stations that these descriptions apply to completely. You don't think broadcasters are going after children? Think again.
I grew up listening to radio. I continued to listen, until last year when the only station that appealed to me changed formats to sound more like everything else on the radio. I guess I'm one of the people that broadcasters just don't care about anymore. There is no reason at all why our area must have 7 CHRs and 6 Soft Rock stations (WOBM, WFPG, WBHX, WJRZ, WBEB, WWZY). Between these two female-oriented formats dominating the FM airwaves, what is left for the male listener? Maybe we're not all into the safe, bland classic rock-dominated Greater Greedia stations. Heck, regardless of what your age or gender is, if you don't like soft rock or hit music, you have very few choices.
I have an MP3 player. I listen to online radio, but that's mostly because there's not even one FM station that I find even slightly appealing. If there was, believe me, I would listen. There's a lot you can get from FM radio that you can't get from MP3s or online radio - news, traffic and weather, concerts, information on local events, to name a few things. But I'm certainly not going to listen to shallow, childish drivel or sleep-inducing soft music for that. I'm an alternative rock fan first and foremost, but if there's anything different out there, I will support it. Blaming technology is just a copout that broadcasters like to use to cover up their ineptitude.
The broadcasters around here are a lot like politicians. Instead of accepting the blame for any shortcomings on their end, they take it out on the people. If you really have your heart in making a format that you believe in a success, it's up to you to make it happen. Press Communications clearly didn't have their heart in G Rock, and that's why they dropped it so abruptly without even making it an online station. Top 40 is obviously more their cup of tea, because they're actually trying to make it work. My hope is that one day we'll get someone who will do that for an alternative rock station - or anything that isn't Top 40, Soft Rock, Classic Rock or Country, for that matter.
Define what an adult is? I believe being over 18 means you're an adult
SoulCrusher said:sethjamz said:The younger audience does not have the "spending power" that a more mature crowd does. Thats why these owners do what they do.
Hubcity said it...itunes, mp3 players etc give the younger audiences what they want, so why program a station to compete with the fact that the younger demos have to many choices and can't stay focused on radio because they are too busy with hooking up, video games, partying, watching stupid reality shows etc. I don't know many owner groups who buy stations to air what they think the "kids" want, they air programming that some consultant says will make them money, and with times like these, can they really afford not too?
They (owners) are catering to who pays their bills right now. It's truley business, the bottom line, MONEY!
Come again? Take a listen to one of the myriad Top 40 stations that we have around here. I know this doesn't go for everyone, but I took the time to count every Top 40 station that puts a decent signal into Southern Ocean County - the number I came up with was seven, loud and clear (WJLK, WAYV, WRDW, WZBZ, WIOQ, WSJO, WBBO - and before anyone questions some of my inclusions, I'll point out that Hot AC is now a slightly more adult-leaning CHR)....
I agree with 99% of what you're saying.. but here's something you are not accounting for... although you can hear all of those stations where you live, they don't all compete with each other.... WJLK and WBBO are in the same market (although they are Class A's that might not cover the whole market). WAYV, WZBZ, and WSJO are in the same market (and 'AYV and 'ZBZ are owned by the same guy)... and WRDW and WIOQ are in the same market... so when you break it down like that it's not as bad... but again... I get your point, but from the owners point of view, WAYV is NOT competing with WBBO... even though their signals are very close to each other...
From a listener's perspective, part of the problem is that even one bad jock can destroy a station by giving it a bad name. You have others who have to work harder to compensate for a loser, and it can take away from what would otherwise be great programming.
Bad consulting is also part of the problem, because a garbage consultant can keep mediocrity alive, and people just groan and change the station and listen to what makes them happy.
Sooner or later a bad jock always goes away, but not without getting worse and worse out of desperation, even to the point of attempting to translate in advance, without even being affiliated, what others are going to play elsewhere. Pretending to be under the tutelage of a heavy hitter is also an interesting feature of dead wood. A bad jock baits, taunts, whatever it takes to get any attention whatsoever. Heavy hitters and the local competition eventually chew the station to shreds - all because of one bad apple, who has no self-restraint, no self-discipline, no talent.
As a listener I recognize what I do not like, and I know what gutter vermin sound like.
Bad consulting is also part of the problem, because a garbage consultant can keep mediocrity alive, and people just groan and change the station and listen to what makes them happy.
Sooner or later a bad jock always goes away, but not without getting worse and worse out of desperation, even to the point of attempting to translate in advance, without even being affiliated, what others are going to play elsewhere. Pretending to be under the tutelage of a heavy hitter is also an interesting feature of dead wood. A bad jock baits, taunts, whatever it takes to get any attention whatsoever. Heavy hitters and the local competition eventually chew the station to shreds - all because of one bad apple, who has no self-restraint, no self-discipline, no talent.
As a listener I recognize what I do not like, and I know what gutter vermin sound like.
Since Silkie has brought up jocks as part of this mix...
That is another reason why some of these stations work and don't work.
If there is a listener favorite jock (whether VT'd or not) a station will do better than the next. As Silkie suggested, whether a jock has a personal beef with something or someone it should never hit the air waves. Remember the old saying, "never let 'em see you sweat".
In fact besides the liner developement, the jock is the only difference in many of these cases.
We are all talking about the music being the same but when you remove a personality that is well liked the ratings (especially in smaller markets) can change dramatically.
This applies to talk formats as well. So owners should look at stations with "personality" as an image not just a format because listeners as well as CLIENTS take notice.
That is another reason why some of these stations work and don't work.
If there is a listener favorite jock (whether VT'd or not) a station will do better than the next. As Silkie suggested, whether a jock has a personal beef with something or someone it should never hit the air waves. Remember the old saying, "never let 'em see you sweat".
In fact besides the liner developement, the jock is the only difference in many of these cases.
We are all talking about the music being the same but when you remove a personality that is well liked the ratings (especially in smaller markets) can change dramatically.
This applies to talk formats as well. So owners should look at stations with "personality" as an image not just a format because listeners as well as CLIENTS take notice.
Up_N_Down_The_Dial said:although you can hear all of those stations where you live, they don't all compete with each other.... WJLK and WBBO are in the same market (although they are Class A's that might not cover the whole market). WAYV, WZBZ, and WSJO are in the same market (and 'AYV and 'ZBZ are owned by the same guy)... and WRDW and WIOQ are in the same market... so when you break it down like that it's not as bad... but again... I get your point, but from the owners point of view, WAYV is NOT competing with WBBO... even though their signals are very close to each other...
They may not compete with each other, but overall, we know what the listeners are selecting. From a listener's point of view, it's horrific to switch 4 or 5 presets and happen to hear Lady Gaga, Ke$ha, or Britney on all of them, especially the same song all them presets play. One time, when Party was still on 87.7, I got "bad Romance" on all my presets in rotation from 92.3, 94.3, 100.3, 103.5, and 106.3. Hell, now Bad Romance is on rotation on X 96.3 for that matter. It's ugly to view the dial like that. Did radio change to a direction where it left us a really bad taste in our mouths compared to radio before 1996. ABSOLUTELY!
However, the way business is done now, it is what it is. In all honesty, I don't like the way that unique formats would flip to duplicate ones and make the dial a complete trainwreck, but this is the way radio is operated now What Press did was the only decision they needed to do to bring in revenue. If you do listen to Z or Now, do you notice any ads runned for any local businesses in Monmouth/Ocean? If so, how much do you think they would have to spend to be heard on NYC radio? I understand how the listeners get screwed out of their format, but at the same time, when the product is there to be offered, there are those who nitpick and complain on what is played on their format and the owners look at it as "hey, we are giving them what they want and they're not appreciating it?"
Nick said:Silkie, are you talking about Chunky on NOW?
No.
With Top 40, the repetition makes hearing the same songs on every station very common. I can vouch for many of them playing the same song at the same time - last night, I heard SoJo and Hit 106 playing the same Ke$ha song at around 7:15 or so. And I think that if you were to look at the playlists of all these stations, they would be at least 80-90% identical. Really, the only thing that sets Hot AC apart from Top 40 these days is Rob Thomas and slightly fewer hip-hop/rhythmic tracks.
I don't think there's any question that the Press move was advertiser-oriented - so, too, was Greater Media's decision to give Monmouth/Ocean its third local soft rock station (fourth if you count both Breeze stations separately). Thinking in those terms, those once-ubiquitous "FINALLY!" billboards make sense - not from the standpoint of the listeners, mind you (they could already fill all six presets with hit music stations, wherever they are), but for the local advertisers ("FINALLY a Top 40 station YOU can afford to advertise on!"). Being "mass appeal" may have made the job easier for the sales staff, who likely didn't have the passion for the alternative format (I personally would have replaced them), but to unceremoniously destroy a format that had been around for 24 years for a short-term sales boost was a bad move. The numbers are in, and to say that Hit 106 has been getting creamed would be an understatement. They're getting whipped not only by the other, somewhat more mature local hit music station (WJLK), but by other out-of-market stations that compete for the same audience (WHTZ, WPLJ, WKTU). When word gets out that these businesses are advertising with the #5 hit music station, I think they're going to sour on the concept. Ditto for Greater Media when businesses realize that Magic 100.1 is the #5 soft rock station in the area (losing not only to WOBM and WWZY/WBHX, but to WLTW and WWFS as well).
It used to be that radio had "something for everybody". Not anymore. But hey - if you love Top 40, soft rock, or classic rock, you can fill every single one of your presets with the exact same thing! Isn't that great? Well, no, it's not. Many of us are on the outside looking in, without an even remotely listenable station. I'm open-minded, as I imagine others are. While I would love to have alternative rock back, it would be nice to have anything that's different. An '80s station, a talk format that focuses on issues not covered by NJ 101.5, Smooth Jazz, AAA, Dance, Active Rock ... anything that isn't the aforementioned three overdone formats or boring "New Country". Yeah, won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen. I'm sure Press and GM will be more than happy settling for fifth place in their formats, because neither of them have the guts to do anything other than generic cookie-cutter stations. It's thanks to them that Monmouth/Ocean is the worst market for radio in the entire country.
I don't think there's any question that the Press move was advertiser-oriented - so, too, was Greater Media's decision to give Monmouth/Ocean its third local soft rock station (fourth if you count both Breeze stations separately). Thinking in those terms, those once-ubiquitous "FINALLY!" billboards make sense - not from the standpoint of the listeners, mind you (they could already fill all six presets with hit music stations, wherever they are), but for the local advertisers ("FINALLY a Top 40 station YOU can afford to advertise on!"). Being "mass appeal" may have made the job easier for the sales staff, who likely didn't have the passion for the alternative format (I personally would have replaced them), but to unceremoniously destroy a format that had been around for 24 years for a short-term sales boost was a bad move. The numbers are in, and to say that Hit 106 has been getting creamed would be an understatement. They're getting whipped not only by the other, somewhat more mature local hit music station (WJLK), but by other out-of-market stations that compete for the same audience (WHTZ, WPLJ, WKTU). When word gets out that these businesses are advertising with the #5 hit music station, I think they're going to sour on the concept. Ditto for Greater Media when businesses realize that Magic 100.1 is the #5 soft rock station in the area (losing not only to WOBM and WWZY/WBHX, but to WLTW and WWFS as well).
It used to be that radio had "something for everybody". Not anymore. But hey - if you love Top 40, soft rock, or classic rock, you can fill every single one of your presets with the exact same thing! Isn't that great? Well, no, it's not. Many of us are on the outside looking in, without an even remotely listenable station. I'm open-minded, as I imagine others are. While I would love to have alternative rock back, it would be nice to have anything that's different. An '80s station, a talk format that focuses on issues not covered by NJ 101.5, Smooth Jazz, AAA, Dance, Active Rock ... anything that isn't the aforementioned three overdone formats or boring "New Country". Yeah, won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen. I'm sure Press and GM will be more than happy settling for fifth place in their formats, because neither of them have the guts to do anything other than generic cookie-cutter stations. It's thanks to them that Monmouth/Ocean is the worst market for radio in the entire country.
Radio is a business.
Businesses do what their executives think they have to do to (a.) stay in business and (b.) be successful at being in business. If that involves jettisoning one audience in the hope of attracting another, so be it.
If that tactic succeeds, so be it. If it fails, so be it. The business will not admit fault in either case.
Business is, by definition, sociopathic, not to mention deluded by its perceived grandeur.
(Don't depend on sociopaths. They tend to let you down.)
Businesses do what their executives think they have to do to (a.) stay in business and (b.) be successful at being in business. If that involves jettisoning one audience in the hope of attracting another, so be it.
If that tactic succeeds, so be it. If it fails, so be it. The business will not admit fault in either case.
Business is, by definition, sociopathic, not to mention deluded by its perceived grandeur.
(Don't depend on sociopaths. They tend to let you down.)
hubcity said:Radio is a business.
Businesses do what their executives think they have to do to (a.) stay in business and (b.) be successful at being in business. If that involves jettisoning one audience in the hope of attracting another, so be it.
If that tactic succeeds, so be it. If it fails, so be it. The business will not admit fault in either case.
Business is, by definition, sociopathic, not to mention deluded by its perceived grandeur.
(Don't depend on sociopaths. They tend to let you down.)
"Excellently observed", answered Candide, "but let us cultivate our garden".
Prais said:Silkie is trying to turn this place into "Masterpiece Theatre."
Not really, just lightening up a pathetic state of affairs. A little Voltaire never hurt anybody. I'm not much of a drama queen.
D
DX
Guest
I know you're talking about music on FM, but I find it interesting that no one has mentioned New Jersey 101.5, one of the most interesting "talk" stations in the country!
DX said:I know you're talking about music on FM, but I find it interesting that no one has mentioned New Jersey 101.5, one of the most interesting "talk" stations in the country!
A few years ago, New Jersey 101.5 was interesting. It had Judi Franco on in middays, Craig Carton in the afternoon, and Tommy G from 11 PM - 3 AM.
Fast forward to 2010. We now have Michele Pilenza (who has no chemistry with Dennis Malloy, even after a year), Casey Bartholomew (who sounds like Kermit The Frog and more often than not comes off as annoying rather than funny), and "Otto Mation" (well, technically, tapes of old shows) in place of those personalities, respectively.
Then, on the weekends, it's pretty much a boring tight playlist of tired songs that you've heard a million times.
New Jersey 101.5 used to be a good station. But since management is intent on cutting corners and trying to run it on the cheap, it is suffering as a result. It's definitely half the station it used to be. Also, since we don't have any station around here that does that, I'd like to hear them tackle some more meaningful subjects, like what's going on in Washington. There's way too much fluff talk on this station for my liking.
That said, when I have to listen to the radio, it's one of the few stations I go to. I'll take fair-to-middling talk over horrible music (which goes for every single station that puts a decent signal into S. Ocean Co.) any day of the week.
You can get a car radio antenna at autozone for way less than $50,or even one on ebay...javascript:void(0);
Fm radio is free,but if youre not a fan of Hip hop,or ethnic language programming,or talk it seems FM or AM doesnt really cater to a your audience let alone one with a liking of dance,country,classical,swing or alternative rock,etc.Seems like the stations pick formats that they dont listen to lately.I even spoke to some hispanic customers and they dont even listen to the Amors and the Megas,they listen to classic rock! So all the Arbitrons and PPMs to me mean NOTHING!Who does the thing anyway?They wonder why people are tuning out and getting ipods and sirius because thats where their favorite personality or music format is.(after being considered worthless to a corporation that has no clue what people want)
Fm radio is free,but if youre not a fan of Hip hop,or ethnic language programming,or talk it seems FM or AM doesnt really cater to a your audience let alone one with a liking of dance,country,classical,swing or alternative rock,etc.Seems like the stations pick formats that they dont listen to lately.I even spoke to some hispanic customers and they dont even listen to the Amors and the Megas,they listen to classic rock! So all the Arbitrons and PPMs to me mean NOTHING!Who does the thing anyway?They wonder why people are tuning out and getting ipods and sirius because thats where their favorite personality or music format is.(after being considered worthless to a corporation that has no clue what people want)
Part of it, where you have stations with personalities that are worthless, has to do with alcohol and drug abuse, which eventually destroys the user but can take its toll on a station over time. Combine that with a person who cannot handle even a small station in life, and you have problems developing.
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