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A Second Translator/HD2 station in Detroit!
- Thread starter travisl5678
- Start date
What's the translator callsign? Curious to see power/coverage.
It's apparently W232CA in Rochester Hills: 99 watts / 909 feet
More info: http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=FM&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=1420004
More info: http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProEngine.php?sCurrentService=FM&tabSearchType=Appl&sAppIDNumber=1420004
"94.3 The Bone Rocks Detroit" - and the format is Alternative Rock. Obviously the station name is more appropriate for the Classic Rock that Rocks format.
Saladressing said:
The interesting thing here is that they're taking on 89X with a separate "89xsucks.com" web site, lots of flag-waving attacks on Canada (and CanCon) and the opening stunt of "10,000 American rock songs in a row." All that, along with the "Boner Babes," sounds more active rock than modern (I don't think modern rock web sites have "hot babes" pages). (In case you didn't know, 89X is CIMX licensed to Windsor.)
Back in the day, do you think WKNR or any of CKLW's competitors on the Detroit side of the border would attack the Big 8 for being Canadian the way the Bone is doing to 89X?
Was CanCon (Canadian Content rules) that strict many years ago as it is now? Funny thing, when I hear CKDO 1580 out of Oshawa, Ontario, I never seem to hear a Canadian song...maybe that's 30-35% CanCon per day, not per hour.. they must be playing all the Canadian music during the day, and when the skywave kicks in, they play only American music!
The coverage maps look horrible for 94.3 and 104.7! (Highly directional) The 94.3 signal, according to fccinfo.com is only Vertical Polarization. Good for mobile reception it seems. So, how is the coverage in and around Detroit for these translators?
Also on fccinfo.com, in this list: http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProFacLookup.php?sCurrentService=FM&sCity=Detroit&sState=MI&tabSearchType=City+State+Search there is an application for W284BQ (104.7) with the FCC to move to 93.9...(it's also at http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?list=0&facid=143173) How in the heck can they do this, isn't there a full-power Windsor station on 93.9??? Supposed to be CIDR, radio-locator.com still says CKLW-FM! ...lol... http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=CKLW&service=FM&status=F&hours=U
The coverage maps look horrible for 94.3 and 104.7! (Highly directional) The 94.3 signal, according to fccinfo.com is only Vertical Polarization. Good for mobile reception it seems. So, how is the coverage in and around Detroit for these translators?
Also on fccinfo.com, in this list: http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProFacLookup.php?sCurrentService=FM&sCity=Detroit&sState=MI&tabSearchType=City+State+Search there is an application for W284BQ (104.7) with the FCC to move to 93.9...(it's also at http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?list=0&facid=143173) How in the heck can they do this, isn't there a full-power Windsor station on 93.9??? Supposed to be CIDR, radio-locator.com still says CKLW-FM! ...lol... http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=CKLW&service=FM&status=F&hours=U
Do either of these new stations have a chance to win? Did they just make a deal for the chanels or did they buy WGPR .. I heard some of the Bone yesterday and it sounded like somebody has a hard on for Canadian radio .. Hope they have lots of bucks .. Know they are looking for a GM . That might be a dead end job with no rewards
nuffsaid said:
It seems to me that they're trying some sort of "Disco Demolition"-type campaign without even bothering checking to see if anyone really cared. Steve Dahl may've started it to get back at his old bosses, but Lee Abrams noted that there was an audience that (any bigotry aside) truly felt that the media was overhyping disco as the killer of rock and that they wouldn't stand for it. (Let's face it--the World War II generation that was running the media back then was hyping disco as what they hoped would be a gradual return to the youth of America to "good music"--as in standards and Big Band music.) Outside of some Detroit band that might be pissed that 89X will play a Windsor band but not them, I don't think there's a big resentment of CanCon out there in Detroit or even knowledge of it. It seemed to me that CanCon didn't hurt CKLW in its glory years and it's not hurting 89X with American listeners today.
So, my question was half answered. Do either of these stations have a chance of winning in The Motor City and did the new kids on the block make a purchase of WGPR or just leases the size channels. Smooth Jazz in my opinion is going to be a hard row to hoe. Gene Elsie (sp) had a fairly good jazz show on WJR years ago but it was short and weekly.
I guess how winning would be defined would be key in answering your question.
In the case of 104.7, I think Smooth Jazz has a substantial fan base in Detroit and can attract a decent audience. Certainly one to make the venture profitable considering the minimal investment involved.
In the case of 94.3 there are established classic rock outlets and the coverage isn't great. It won't unseat anyone but could pull people away from 89X enough to make money with another minimal investment.
In both cases there is a decent upside potential with minimal risk so, yes, in that context I think the owner has a chance to 'win'.
In the case of 104.7, I think Smooth Jazz has a substantial fan base in Detroit and can attract a decent audience. Certainly one to make the venture profitable considering the minimal investment involved.
In the case of 94.3 there are established classic rock outlets and the coverage isn't great. It won't unseat anyone but could pull people away from 89X enough to make money with another minimal investment.
In both cases there is a decent upside potential with minimal risk so, yes, in that context I think the owner has a chance to 'win'.
FCC rule §74.1235(d) states:
(d) Applications for FM translator stations located within 320 km of the Canadian border will not be accepted if they specify more than 50 watts effective radiated power in any direction or have a 34 dBu interference contour, calculated in accordance with §74.1204 of this part, that exceeds 32 km.
So how are these translators getting licensed?
(d) Applications for FM translator stations located within 320 km of the Canadian border will not be accepted if they specify more than 50 watts effective radiated power in any direction or have a 34 dBu interference contour, calculated in accordance with §74.1204 of this part, that exceeds 32 km.
So how are these translators getting licensed?
Also, 104.7 seems awfully close to WIOT Toledo on 104.7 which, if I recall correctly, is 50kw at 500' (or close to it) from one of the big TV towers on the East side of Toledo - which has to be less than 50 miles from downtown Detroit, as the crow flies, if the crow was flying against the prevailing winds. Where's the translator's transmitter situated?
Stomping right on the fringe coverage contour of an adjacent market station seems to have been the way many of the religious "translator" stations were set up - especially if it's going to obscure an NPR affilate. I think that's yet another mistake for the radio industry - commercial or noncommercial - when these "translators" introduce enough interference on nearby stations so that you can't drive 40 minutes anymore without losing a full powered FM signal that used to carry a decent signal for at least 60 or 70 miles in the flat lands of the Great Lakes.
Stomping right on the fringe coverage contour of an adjacent market station seems to have been the way many of the religious "translator" stations were set up - especially if it's going to obscure an NPR affilate. I think that's yet another mistake for the radio industry - commercial or noncommercial - when these "translators" introduce enough interference on nearby stations so that you can't drive 40 minutes anymore without losing a full powered FM signal that used to carry a decent signal for at least 60 or 70 miles in the flat lands of the Great Lakes.
It's just funny how Martz is making fun of a Canadian border blaster, when Martz itself owns 3 border blasters in upstate New York that target Montreal. They made most of their money from Canadian advertisers in Montreal, and then turn around and make fun of Canada in Detroit.
It's like their whole philosophy is "no CanCon". That might work for their upstate New York stations where they have a good signal in Montreal. Canadian listeners would choose to listen to them because they don't want to hear "inferior" Canadian music that's only getting airplay because of CanCon. But in Detroit, 89x is doing well (even on the US side) despite the CanCon requirement, and it'll be hard to compete with them with only 99 watts compared to their 100,000 watts.
It's like their whole philosophy is "no CanCon". That might work for their upstate New York stations where they have a good signal in Montreal. Canadian listeners would choose to listen to them because they don't want to hear "inferior" Canadian music that's only getting airplay because of CanCon. But in Detroit, 89x is doing well (even on the US side) despite the CanCon requirement, and it'll be hard to compete with them with only 99 watts compared to their 100,000 watts.
I believe that they changed the 50 watt rule (Section 74.1235 (d))toward Canada quite a few years ago, but they may have to get approval under treaty for the freqeuncy as Class A to Canada in some circumstances. You still can't put more than 34 dBu to a cochannel station on Canadian or US land from the other country.
I don't think that Tim Martz has anything against Canada or Canadian stations. In this instance, the application for 93.9 is just that as a 10.8 Mhz shift, it is a minor change. It can then change to another adjacent channel.
The main problem is that they are running out of freqeuncies. They need to reallocate Channel 2-6 for HD, AM, Translators, etc.
Canada has been placing new stations around Windsor that interfere with the fringe service of many other stations that have a few isteners in Metro Detroit, such as WJIM-FM, WFMK, WITL, WDZZ, WFBE, WMMS, and others but if they conform to the treaty, there's not much recourse. So it is not a one way street.
I don't think that Tim Martz has anything against Canada or Canadian stations. In this instance, the application for 93.9 is just that as a 10.8 Mhz shift, it is a minor change. It can then change to another adjacent channel.
The main problem is that they are running out of freqeuncies. They need to reallocate Channel 2-6 for HD, AM, Translators, etc.
Canada has been placing new stations around Windsor that interfere with the fringe service of many other stations that have a few isteners in Metro Detroit, such as WJIM-FM, WFMK, WITL, WDZZ, WFBE, WMMS, and others but if they conform to the treaty, there's not much recourse. So it is not a one way street.
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