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A survey, random and nonscientific: radio is dead

Re: Personal attacks? Ha!

> > And where do the moderators who make personal attacks fit
> > in?
>
> If you categorize what I have said as "personal attacks",
> either you are very thin skinned or you do not understand
> the meaning of the term.

You either get your feelings hurt easy or you're dumb...nope, no personal attacking here.
>

>
> And, as has been pointed out many times, by many moderators,
> we don't answer to you. We answer to the owners of the
> site, who have proven to be inclined toward defending the
> moderators in whatever they have to do to squelch
> troublemakers.

"Trouble" defined vaguely enough to be just about anything said moderators (you specifically) don't like or don't agree with. You're right, you don't answer to mere posters of this website, and you (specifically) act like it.<P ID="signature">______________
What, you were expecting me to make sense for a change?</P>
 
Re: Personal attacks? Ha!

To me, "thin-skinned" is whereby one takes constructive criticism as a personal attack and invokes a "Rule 5" in order to squealch other's thoughts.

Furthermore, there are many boards on which moderators are discouraged from entering into the discussion frey. They are simply supposed to watch and comment on something that absolutely needs commenting upon regarding the use or operation of the board (and on that topic alone), usually rarely, and they allow humans to be humans up to a point. Now I can see why. Joel Denver on All Access is a great example of this kind of moderating. That board is a far more friendly environment than here, not only for that reason but also because of Joel's personality and common sense.
 
Not true.

> Furthermore, there are many boards on which moderators are
> discouraged from entering into the discussion frey. They
> are simply supposed to watch and comment on something that
> absolutely needs commenting upon regarding the use or
> operation of the board (and on that topic alone), usually
> rarely, and they allow humans to be humans up to a point.

Are you one of the owners of Radio-Info? No? Then it really doesn't matter what you believe moderators can and cannot do.

The policy on this site is to <u>always</u> have moderators who are active participants on the boards they moderate. Since moderators receive no financial compensation for being same, this policy ensures that the moderators will be regular viewers of their boards.

When you come up with a plan to compensate moderators for performing that function on boards they do not participate in, and want to write a check to the owners to cover that plan, I'm sure they'll be interested.

In the meantime, your comments have now taken this thread off-topic, and further such discussion will result in deleted posts.

> Now I can see why. Joel Denver on All Access is a great
> example of this kind of moderating. That board is a far
> more friendly environment than here, not only for that
> reason but also because of Joel's personality and common
> sense.

I just paid a visit to the All Access board, and it doesn't look like they do anything about personal attacks. I hardly call that "friendly".<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: Not true.

>
> I just paid a visit to the All Access board, and it doesn't
> look like they do anything about personal attacks. I hardly
> call that "friendly".
>

Agreed. It is like a bar brawl without the broken bottles.
 
Re: Not true.

> >
> > I just paid a visit to the All Access board, and it
> doesn't
> > look like they do anything about personal attacks. I
> hardly
> > call that "friendly".
> >
>
> Agreed. It is like a bar brawl without the broken bottles.

Perhaps Hans could do an "unscientific survey" of All Access board users next.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
unscientific survey

> > >
> > > I just paid a visit to the All Access board, and it
> > doesn't
> > > look like they do anything about personal attacks. I
> > hardly
> > > call that "friendly".
> > >
> > Agreed. It is like a bar brawl without the broken bottles.
>
> Perhaps Hans could do an "unscientific survey" of All Access
> board users next.

And then report back in a year or two!
<P ID="signature">______________
Prairie Home Companion Coming To Miami in Feb!


South Florida Radio Pages</P>
 
Re: radio is dead?

> You should probably inform the over 10,000 radio stations
> across America about this. I'm sure they'll be a little
> surprised they don't matter anymore.

They won't be surprised. Those who make the decisions at radio stations know they're on borrowed time. This is why when we cry foul each time a decent jock is let go in favor of a satellite feed or a voice track, it falls on deaf ears. GMs know it's pointless to pay for a warm body when nobody's listening, and advertisers won't buy... they KNOW IT.

And, they aren't, except for in their cars, and SOMETIMES at work... which means a staffed AM and PM drive is necessary, but nothing after 6pm or before 5am. And sometimes even middays is voicetracked now. That's the reality of radio today.

One thing though that most people don't understand, radio has been it's own worst enemy. While it's really too expensive at many stations to actually employ talented live voices during most of the broadcast day, this wasn't always so. Before the internet really took hold in the mid-90s, stations already due to consolidation were replacing the real talent with, shall we say, adequate talent... or competant board ops. And automation/satellites. I think it's safe to say that radio had as much a hand in pushing it's audience away as the internet and mp3 players did in helping to take it away.

Same reason AM top 40 met it's demise 5-7 years before it should have... the programmers all in unison threw in the towell and went big band/standards around the same time... and pushed a huge audience off the AM band.

I'd disagree that radio's dead. But it is on life support. How many of you got that email from All Access written about how radio is run by stupid people? The ones who have screwed up HD so badly that nobody will EVER buy it because the industry, TEN years after HD first was proposed, still has no reception and display standard. What a good article. Go read it, then figure out that the brain surgeons who run the biggest radio groups in this country sit up in their lofty corporate suites, in nosebleed country, and have no clue how bad conditions in our industry are, nor do they know how to fix it. They let satellite get the jump on them in the digital world, now we gotta play catchup with a broadcast band that isn't even profitable because we can't figure out how to properly launch HD... which COULD be the next big toy for young listeners... but now looks like it'll suffer the same fate as C-QUAM AM Stereo. Things really look bleak.

I'm one of radio's biggest fans... it's nice to work in a business in which you love everything about your work, but one of you guys in this thread said it right... we're radio addicts but at our age we might be the only ones left. It seems radio's not that important to people under 30, and just about non-existant to those under 20. I hate being this negative but I see many in our industry with their heads up their collective azz. Enjoy radio while we have it.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
 
Re: radio is dead?...The Solution

Steve, I am going to reply to your statement about radio being on life support and close to the edge of being insignificant in our society.

My reply is the same reply that I usually have. If radio is moving toward insignificance, then its market value should be in a declining trend. As station values decline, some owners will sell at a discount. The price will fall to a level where a whole new batch of interested people (maybe someone like you!) will be able to afford to buy their own station. Maybe for cash or maybe financing it in some way. When stations are discounted, the investment will not be as large as it is now or has been and owners can afford to "tinker" with the station. If discounting continues, then people will buy stations as a hobby to play the kind of format that they want to have on a station. Not as much for money as for the sake of enjoyment and their own interest.

A level could be reached where a significant number of stations are personal jukeboxes, not much grander than what is now streamed only on the net. That is not so bad. Radio will find its niche, but it may be at a lower financial level than it has ever been.

The only problem with this scenario is our Big Brother at the FCC. I think they would rather have no radio station, than to have a deregulated station that has come on the air with nothing more than a sale to a new owner. The FCC will not allow a new owner without the "hullaballoo" (or some other term you may choose) of a beaureucratic nightmare, the likes of which is seldom seen in this country for anything outside of disposing of nuclear waste. And if you are the citizen of some other land, including ones that signed on to NAFTA, or you are a convicted fellon, then forget about having a radio station.

The death of radio has been and will be due to government regulation of a service that should not be regulated. It is no one's business who buys an existing licensed station. But the government makes it their business and no one can broadcast (as an owner) without "nanny's" permission.

The Socialists here say that the airwaves belong to the people. If they do not become deregulated, that is how they will die.

Radio can have a life, but the FCC will see to it that radio dies!

Steven Green
Capitalist and member of Libertarian Party since 1980.



> They won't be surprised. Those who make the decisions at
> radio stations know they're on borrowed time. This is why
> when we cry foul each time a decent jock is let go in favor
> of a satellite feed or a voice track, it falls on deaf ears.
> GMs know it's pointless to pay for a warm body when
> nobody's listening, and advertisers won't buy... they KNOW
> IT.
>
> And, they aren't, except for in their cars, and SOMETIMES at
> work... which means a staffed AM and PM drive is necessary,
> but nothing after 6pm or before 5am. And sometimes even
> middays is voicetracked now. That's the reality of radio
> today.
>
> One thing though that most people don't understand, radio
> has been it's own worst enemy. While it's really too
> expensive at many stations to actually employ talented live
> voices during most of the broadcast day, this wasn't always
> so. Before the internet really took hold in the mid-90s,
> stations already due to consolidation were replacing the
> real talent with, shall we say, adequate talent... or
> competant board ops. And automation/satellites. I think
> it's safe to say that radio had as much a hand in pushing
> it's audience away as the internet and mp3 players did in
> helping to take it away.
>
> Same reason AM top 40 met it's demise 5-7 years before it
> should have... the programmers all in unison threw in the
> towell and went big band/standards around the same time...
> and pushed a huge audience off the AM band.
>
> I'd disagree that radio's dead. But it is on life support.
> How many of you got that email from All Access written about
> how radio is run by stupid people? The ones who have
> screwed up HD so badly that nobody will EVER buy it because
> the industry, TEN years after HD first was proposed, still
> has no reception and display standard. What a good article.
> Go read it, then figure out that the brain surgeons who run
> the biggest radio groups in this country sit up in their
> lofty corporate suites, in nosebleed country, and have no
> clue how bad conditions in our industry are, nor do they
> know how to fix it. They let satellite get the jump on them
> in the digital world, now we gotta play catchup with a
> broadcast band that isn't even profitable because we can't
> figure out how to properly launch HD... which COULD be the
> next big toy for young listeners... but now looks like it'll
> suffer the same fate as C-QUAM AM Stereo. Things really look
> bleak.
>
> I'm one of radio's biggest fans... it's nice to work in a
> business in which you love everything about your work, but
> one of you guys in this thread said it right... we're radio
> addicts but at our age we might be the only ones left. It
> seems radio's not that important to people under 30, and
> just about non-existant to those under 20. I hate being
> this negative but I see many in our industry with their
> heads up their collective azz. Enjoy radio while we have
> it.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Re: radio is dead?...The Solution

> My reply is the same reply that I usually have. If radio is
> moving toward insignificance, then its market value should
> be in a declining trend. As station values decline, some
> owners will sell at a discount. The price will fall to a
> level where a whole new batch of interested people (maybe
> someone like you!) will be able to afford to buy their own
> station. Maybe for cash or maybe financing it in some way.
> When stations are discounted, the investment will not be as
> large as it is now or has been and owners can afford to
> "tinker" with the station. If discounting continues, then
> people will buy stations as a hobby to play the kind of
> format that they want to have on a station. Not as much for
> money as for the sake of enjoyment and their own interest.

I agree. With the way radio is these days, that might be where things are headed with the industry.

> A level could be reached where a significant number of
> stations are personal jukeboxes, not much grander than what
> is now streamed only on the net. That is not so bad. Radio
> will find its niche, but it may be at a lower financial
> level than it has ever been.

Yes, terrestrial radio will find its niche all right. All while trying to compete against satellite radio, the internet, I pod's, etc.

> The death of radio has been and will be due to government
> regulation of a service that should not be regulated. It is
> no one's business who buys an existing licensed station.
> But the government makes it their business and no one can
> broadcast (as an owner) without "nanny's" permission.

If it weren't for the FCC, you would have personalities like Howard Stern spouting the crude language he's uttering on satellite radio now.

> The Socialists here say that the airwaves belong to the
> people. If they do not become deregulated, that is how they
> will die.

Deregulation, IMHO, is what has got terrestrial radio in the mess that it's in to begin with.

> Radio can have a life, but the FCC will see to it that radio
> dies!

Don't blame the FCC alone. Blame the elected officials who put the Telecommunications Act of 1996 into effect some 10 years ago.
 
> > Enough with the ugliness. How is this not a personal
> > attack, violating rule one of this board? Did you see the
>
> > piling on below? You are a moderator. There should be
> some
> > responsibility that goes with that job. Which should
> > include being somewhat "moderate" in your posting.
> Opinions
> > are one thing. Throwing out nastiness is another.
>
> You don't know what we on the Los Angeles and San Diego
> boards put up with from this guy. (David Eduardo's prayer
> in this thread should give you an idea of how obnoxious we
> find him; I am simply voicing a majority view.) My remarks,
> BTW, were made before I moved the post from the L.A. board.
>

Since when did any of the posters on any of the many radio-info boards ask you or david to speak for them in the first place? We certainly don't need either one of you to tell us when a poster is in left field on an issue anyway! Radio is not going anywhere for years and years and years, but it will go through many changes for sure!
 
A plan I'll give you all a plan and the owners of radio-info too!

> > Furthermore, there are many boards on which moderators are
>
> > discouraged from entering into the discussion frey. They
> > are simply supposed to watch and comment on something that
>
> > absolutely needs commenting upon regarding the use or
> > operation of the board (and on that topic alone), usually
> > rarely, and they allow humans to be humans up to a point.
>
>
> Are you one of the owners of Radio-Info? No? Then it
> really doesn't matter what you believe moderators can and
> cannot do.
>
> The policy on this site is to always have moderators who are
> active participants on the boards they moderate. Since
> moderators receive no financial compensation for being same,
> this policy ensures that the moderators will be regular
> viewers of their boards.
>
> When you come up with a plan to compensate moderators for
> performing that function on boards they do not participate
> in, and want to write a check to the owners to cover that
> plan, I'm sure they'll be interested.
>
You want a plan? I'll give you and the owners of the site a plan. It's time to make radio-info.com into a subscription service! How about that? I will gladly pay at the very least $20.00 per month to the owners if they used the money gained for updating the speed of the servers used so it doesn't take forever to read a thread on any of the boards like it does right now! So I think all of you posters need to pony up and make this into an ever better site than it is already! But we've all got to contribute to making it happen without complaining about the change! So Sam how about it? Has the time come for the owners to make the change? I for one say it is and has been for a long time!

> In the meantime, your comments have now taken this thread
> off-topic, and further such discussion will result in
> deleted posts.
>
> > Now I can see why. Joel Denver on All Access is a great
> > example of this kind of moderating. That board is a far
> > more friendly environment than here, not only for that
> > reason but also because of Joel's personality and common
> > sense.
>
> I just paid a visit to the All Access board, and it doesn't
> look like they do anything about personal attacks. I hardly
> call that "friendly".
>
 
Re: A plan I'll give you all a plan and the owners of radio-info too!

Paying to post messages on a message board? Ha, you've got to be kidding.

> > > Furthermore, there are many boards on which moderators
> are
> >
> > > discouraged from entering into the discussion frey.
> They
> > > are simply supposed to watch and comment on something
> that
> >
> > > absolutely needs commenting upon regarding the use or
> > > operation of the board (and on that topic alone),
> usually
> > > rarely, and they allow humans to be humans up to a
> point.
> >
> >
> > Are you one of the owners of Radio-Info? No? Then it
> > really doesn't matter what you believe moderators can and
> > cannot do.
> >
> > The policy on this site is to always have moderators who
> are
> > active participants on the boards they moderate. Since
> > moderators receive no financial compensation for being
> same,
> > this policy ensures that the moderators will be regular
> > viewers of their boards.
> >
> > When you come up with a plan to compensate moderators for
> > performing that function on boards they do not participate
>
> > in, and want to write a check to the owners to cover that
> > plan, I'm sure they'll be interested.
> >
> You want a plan? I'll give you and the owners of the site a
> plan. It's time to make radio-info.com into a subscription
> service! How about that? I will gladly pay at the very least
> $20.00 per month to the owners if they used the money gained
> for updating the speed of the servers used so it doesn't
> take forever to read a thread on any of the boards like it
> does right now! So I think all of you posters need to pony
> up and make this into an ever better site than it is
> already! But we've all got to contribute to making it happen
> without complaining about the change! So Sam how about it?
> Has the time come for the owners to make the change? I for
> one say it is and has been for a long time!
>
> > In the meantime, your comments have now taken this thread
> > off-topic, and further such discussion will result in
> > deleted posts.
> >
> > > Now I can see why. Joel Denver on All Access is a great
>
> > > example of this kind of moderating. That board is a far
>
> > > more friendly environment than here, not only for that
> > > reason but also because of Joel's personality and common
>
> > > sense.
> >
> > I just paid a visit to the All Access board, and it
> doesn't
> > look like they do anything about personal attacks. I
> hardly
> > call that "friendly".
> >
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by radionut987 on 01/12/06 12:27 AM.</FONT></P>
 
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