AAF cookie cutter Rock.....

[Freestyleluva103]

New PD at AAF: duh, lets be like every other rock station in the country.
AAF: um, yeah lets jump on the bandwagon and SUCK.

Lets over play pink floyd and then go to Fall out boy. HMMMM what about Killswitch Engaged? Nah, too hard. Yeah. ZZZZZZZZ (listeners)

this was a little skit that goes on behind closed doors at AAF. Thank you.

 

[classicradionut]

> New PD at AAF: duh, lets be like every other rock station
> in the country.
> AAF: um, yeah lets jump on the bandwagon and SUCK.

Okay, that's a bit adolescent, but it is a good observation.

You mean the 'Playing everything that rocks' bandwagon? I'm noticing that modern Rockers are trying to go back to their AOR roots of the early 80s. That's not necessarilly a bad thing, with WBCN staying pretty much all new music... although out here in Franklin county WAAF and WLZX "Laser 99.3" out of Northampton have almost identical playlists and 107.3's jocks sound better.

Gotta agree with you about the massive amount of Pink Floyd being played. What, did that band show up on all the consultant's safe list? Everybody who's playing rock in some form is playing Floyd, Zeppelin and Hendrix to death!!! And... for some reason there's a massive influx of David Lee Roth-era VH being played ad-nauseum since Diamond Dave took over for Stern... you'd think 'AAF wouldn't touch Roth with a ten foot pole with him doing mornings on the competition. Sorry... Van-Hagar was a hellofalot better anyway!<P ID="signature">______________
</P>

 

[ciao99]

> > New PD at AAF: duh, lets be like every other rock
> station
> > in the country.
> > AAF: um, yeah lets jump on the bandwagon and SUCK.
>
> Okay, that's a bit adolescent, but it is a good observation.
>
>
> You mean the 'Playing everything that rocks' bandwagon? I'm
> noticing that modern Rockers are trying to go back to their
> AOR roots of the early 80s. That's not necessarilly a bad
> thing, with WBCN staying pretty much all new music...
> although out here in Franklin county WAAF and WLZX "Laser
> 99.3" out of Northampton have almost identical playlists and
> 107.3's jocks sound better.
>
> Gotta agree with you about the massive amount of Pink Floyd
> being played. What, did that band show up on all the
> consultant's safe list? Everybody who's playing rock in
> some form is playing Floyd, Zeppelin and Hendrix to death!!!
> And... for some reason there's a massive influx of David
> Lee Roth-era VH being played ad-nauseum since Diamond Dave
> took over for Stern... you'd think 'AAF wouldn't touch Roth
> with a ten foot pole with him doing mornings on the
> competition. Sorry... Van-Hagar was a hellofalot better
> anyway!
>
If people want to hear Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin, listen to a classic rock station. Kind of silly to put that stuff on modern rock stations. WBCN shys (spelling) away from playing current music and throws in too many of the geriatrics.

 

[neanderpol]

> You mean the 'Playing everything that rocks' bandwagon? I'm
> noticing that modern Rockers are trying to go back to their
> AOR roots of the early 80s. That's not necessarilly a bad
> thing, with WBCN staying pretty much all new music...
> although out here in Franklin county WAAF and WLZX "Laser
> 99.3" out of Northampton have almost identical playlists and
> 107.3's jocks sound better.

I think it's time we stop with the over-classifying of Rock formats anyway. There's no such thing as "Active Rock". Rock is Rock. All those fragmented formats were marketing tools to get promotional preferential treatment.

If anything, this allows Rock stations to (GASP!) Widen their playlists. Wouldn't wider playlists eliminate the need for the "Jack" format?"

> Gotta agree with you about the massive amount of Pink Floyd
> being played. What, did that band show up on all the
> consultant's safe list? Everybody who's playing rock in
> some form is playing Floyd, Zeppelin and Hendrix to death!!!

During research (which will eventually be the death of radio because it's over-relied upon) those bands "test well" with the younger end of the targeted demos. So...get used to it. And be thankful the Tom Petty ebb & flow has subsided for a little while. It'll be back in July.

> And... for some reason there's a massive influx of David
> Lee Roth-era VH being played ad-nauseum since Diamond Dave
> took over for Stern... you'd think 'AAF wouldn't touch Roth
> with a ten foot pole with him doing mornings on the
> competition. Sorry... Van-Hagar was a hellofalot better
> anyway!

I'll respectfully disagree with you there. =)

 

[TravisWMLN]

> >
> If people want to hear Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin, listen to
> a classic rock station. Kind of silly to put that stuff on
> modern rock stations. WBCN shys (spelling) away from playing
> current music and throws in too many of the geriatrics.
>
Couldn't disagree more...if you are going to play rock, and i mean all aspects of rock, it is essential to play the roots, i.e. ac/dc, led zep, floyd, and the doors among others. i think by including the older artists to the playlist expands your demo to the older generation to get them to listen to some of the new stuff and the new stuff will bring in the kids where they can listen to where it all began. but i do think they should play other hendrix songs besides hey joe and purple haze

 

[Jacko]

The biggest problem with the rock format these days is the quality of the music itself. Aside from a few current bands that make things somewhat interesting (The Killers, System of a Down, Avenged Sevenfold), the rock music of the current day is very generic and sounds like it was intended to have a wide appeal. How many more times do I have to hear Nickelback?

Also, the thing with WAAF is that their playlist has gone more toward mainstream rock, just like WGIR/Manchester, NH has in the past year or so. Where I live, I can get WAAF, WGIR, WHEB and WHJY, which all sound just about sound the same to me. At least WHJY and WHEB have stuck to the traditional AOR approach doesn't seem too out of place to hear a track from the Who or Steppenwolf on those stations, while it seems out of place to hear them on WAAF.

One station I do give a lot of praise to is WBCN. Lately, their music has been hitting the mark for the 25-44 year old male, playing (but not overplaying) the older stuff, playing new music that doesn't sound too bad, and offering a good dose of 90s rock that made alternative rock radio great for about 3 years. And, they don't play Nickelback. Woo!

Jacko <P ID="signature">______________
I live for my dream,
And a pocket full of gold.
</P>

 

[NotoriousN-I-K]

The rock radio problem

> > > New PD at AAF: duh, lets be like every other rock
> > station
> > > in the country.
> > > AAF: um, yeah lets jump on the bandwagon and SUCK.
> >
> > Okay, that's a bit adolescent, but it is a good
> observation.
> >
> >
> > You mean the 'Playing everything that rocks' bandwagon?
> I'm
> > noticing that modern Rockers are trying to go back to
> their
> > AOR roots of the early 80s. That's not necessarilly a bad
>
> > thing, with WBCN staying pretty much all new music...
> > although out here in Franklin county WAAF and WLZX "Laser
> > 99.3" out of Northampton have almost identical playlists
> and
> > 107.3's jocks sound better.
> >
> > Gotta agree with you about the massive amount of Pink
> Floyd
> > being played. What, did that band show up on all the
> > consultant's safe list? Everybody who's playing rock in
> > some form is playing Floyd, Zeppelin and Hendrix to
> death!!!
> > And... for some reason there's a massive influx of David
> > Lee Roth-era VH being played ad-nauseum since Diamond Dave
>
> > took over for Stern... you'd think 'AAF wouldn't touch
> Roth
> > with a ten foot pole with him doing mornings on the
> > competition. Sorry... Van-Hagar was a hellofalot better
> > anyway!
> >
> If people want to hear Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin, listen to
> a classic rock station. Kind of silly to put that stuff on
> modern rock stations. WBCN shys (spelling) away from playing
> current music and throws in too many of the geriatrics.
>

The problem is two fold.

1. The "alternative" or "modern rock" format has so few stars, the bands are not as huge as they were in the 90's at the height of the format. Most are faceless and have one hit or maybe two, so it's become impossible to fashion a format which has anysubstance around such bands. Even a band like the killers that came up with a few solid hits last year with the exception of the lead singer Brandon Flowers nobody knows who they are and many dont even know his name. There are no personalities left in rock and no real stars, the problem is as it's been pointed out here a bunch of times is that the hip hoppers are the new "rock stars" you may not listen to their music but you know their names, everyone knows Li'l Jon whether they like him or not. "YEAAAAAH"!!!

2. WBCn is a bad example becuase it has not been a "modern rock' station in years, you go on the CBS corporate web site where they're advertising for part time jocks the station format is classified as "Active rock". The reason that you're hearing Pink Floyd, Zep etc is that they have a sales issue, theyre not and have not been making enough money playing music that they perceive as appealing to the younger end of the audience spectrum. The theory being that if tthe 30 plus year old guy can be roped in by playing Zepplin and Floyd, good because he has more money than the 24 year old guy who is listening to hear band of the moment X. The older the audience the better the advertisers they can attract. They cant make the required money to satisfy corproate's expectations by having local bike shops as advertisers, BUT they can make that money if BMW and Lexus advertise, and the guys who will be more likely to by a Beamer etc are not going to be the 24 yyear old guys, they'll be the 25-54 year old guys who make a hefty-er salary.

Going back about four years ago for one year my bonus was based on my ratings for men 25-54, I knew that there was no way I could get those numbers in that demo while we were playing god forbid GOOD CHARLOTTE, plus if you're targeting that old you're no longer "alternative" no mattter how many times you say " we're alternative". BUt the station nneeded to make more money and they so desperately wanted to be able to charge mor efor ads so they targeted older. So while I was looking at allaccess yesterday and they have another "on the beach" interview with Birdsey and Bdub who are still unemployed, they crowed that while they were doing afternoons at aaf (which is a lie Birdsey was doing afternoons with Rocko who he is trying desperately to forget for whatever reason, like his tie to Rocko is the reason that he's unemployed, truth is neither of them has a good reputation)) they claimed that the were numberr one men 18-34 five consecutive books in a row, and while that may have been true Rocko and Birdsey would crow about their ratings I didnt care because I wasnt being PAID to get numbers men 18-34, I was being paid for men 25-54 which was hardly worth going after bbecause at tthe time I WASNT playing the floyds and Zeps of the world, in short radio is about sales, ratings are about sales, the reason we HAVE ratings is to gauge how much we can charge for sales. It's tough that as a jock you have to evenb be aware of sales, but in the cuurrent radio enviornment you have to look at both sides of the coin. THAT is why you hear what you hear on wbcn and rock radio in general hence you get the cookie cutter feel that you're complaining about on waaf, it's symptomatic of the state of rock radio on a while.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by NotoriousN-I-K on 01/29/06 06:26 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[classicradionut]

> I think it's time we stop with the over-classifying of Rock
> formats anyway. There's no such thing as "Active Rock". Rock
> is Rock. All those fragmented formats were marketing tools
> to get promotional preferential treatment.

YOu said a mouthful there! I'd expand that to other formats as well... Oldies prime among them.
>
> If anything, this allows Rock stations to (GASP!) Widen
> their playlists. Wouldn't wider playlists eliminate the need
> for the "Jack" format?"

Yep and I think that's the whole point.

>

> During research (which will eventually be the death of radio
> because it's over-relied upon) those bands "test well" with
> the younger end of the targeted demos. So...get used to it.
> And be thankful the Tom Petty ebb & flow has subsided for a
> little while. It'll be back in July.

But Paul, it's always been that way, just not as much in Rock Radio as in AC & Country. Even with the 'expanded' playlist WAAF is using now, the artist rotation is still WAY too tight - especially for the core format artists like Zeppelin, etc. What it should be is tighter for current artists, but a more diverse variety of artists and spread out over a longer time period to avoid listener burnout. I don't mind Floyd... but I'm pretty burnt out listening to Another Brick In The Wall... I can to to WAQY and hear that one any day of the week.

>
> > And... for some reason there's a massive influx of David
> > Lee Roth-era VH being played ad-nauseum since Diamond Dave
>
> > took over for Stern... you'd think 'AAF wouldn't touch
> Roth
> > with a ten foot pole with him doing mornings on the
> > competition. Sorry... Van-Hagar was a hellofalot better
> > anyway!
>
> I'll respectfully disagree with you there. =)
>

Personal preference... I was a big Sammy Hagar fan. Always thought Roth's head was too big for his body compared with his actual talent... and his radio show so far makes me think I was right. God, talk about awful!<P ID="signature">______________
</P>

 

[neanderpol]

This isn't about any one station

>
> > During research (which will eventually be the death of
> radio
> > because it's over-relied upon) those bands "test well"
> with
> > the younger end of the targeted demos. So...get used to
> it.
> > And be thankful the Tom Petty ebb & flow has subsided for
> a
> > little while. It'll be back in July.
>
> But Paul, it's always been that way, just not as much in
> Rock Radio as in AC & Country. Even with the 'expanded'
> playlist WAAF is using now, the artist rotation is still WAY
> too tight - especially for the core format artists like
> Zeppelin, etc. What it should be is tighter for current
> artists, but a more diverse variety of artists and spread
> out over a longer time period to avoid listener burnout. I
> don't mind Floyd... but I'm pretty burnt out listening to
> Another Brick In The Wall... I can to to WAQY and hear that
> one any day of the week.

I agree. Especially with established artists. And I'm not singling out any particular station. I think the industry as a whole has to trust that the audience might have a wider musical vocabulary that we give them credit for when it comes to the Floyds, and Zeppelins etc. I don't think dropping "In My Time Of Dying", or "Keep Talking" in occasionally, hurts your station at all. But again, it has to be done in moderation. and attention has to be paid to the sound hour by the Music Director. And the Program Director has to trust that the Music Director they have in position actually knows the product they're presenting. This is a HUGE issue with me. Music Directors have become glorified secretaries. A good amount have either not been shown how to create the musical palate of a sound hour, or just don't get it. Many of them don't even schedule the music.

Hell...I'll go off on yet another tangent.

Many air personalities don't know anything about the music they're playing.

Why is this?

No passion. We've become "McSong" salespeople. We're supposed to be the epicenter of the audience. Every jock on every rock station should know as much as possible about every band they play. Yes. I just wrote that, and I don't care if it seems unreasonable. This is what we do. We're ALL in sales. And we should know how to sell the product. It's about credibility. and it's sorely lacking in radio stations across America.

Of course...it's tough to foster passion when you tell the jocks to "shut up and play the music".

Anyway...

I'm not advocating "Tea For One". I'm saying that the audience knows more than the half dozen Zeppelin songs that get killed by radio stations all over the world. And if you can play "unfamilar" new rock, why can't you play a deeper cut by an established artist. You're already half way there by the fact that they're a known commodity. You're educating the lower end of the demo, and rewarding the upper end for their loyalty.

Especially with the dearth of quality "new" artists. I personally think you can replace that "current" position in the clock with a level 2 song from AC/DC and the audience doesn't care.

They don't want "new rock", they want GOOD rock. And I believe you can keep them just as happy with a combination of the right "new" songs, and wider library. It's not WHO you play, it's WHAT you play by who you play.

Anyone here think hearing "Not Now John" might be a breath of fresh air every third time "Money" comes up on the Selector? Both songs edited for content of course

Just some rambling...
=)

> >
> > > And... for some reason there's a massive influx of
> David
> > > Lee Roth-era VH being played ad-nauseum since Diamond
> Dave
> >
> > > took over for Stern... you'd think 'AAF wouldn't touch
> > Roth
> > > with a ten foot pole with him doing mornings on the
> > > competition. Sorry... Van-Hagar was a hellofalot better
>
> > > anyway!
> >
> > I'll respectfully disagree with you there. =)
> >
>
> Personal preference... I was a big Sammy Hagar fan. Always
> thought Roth's head was too big for his body compared with
> his actual talent... and his radio show so far makes me
> think I was right. God, talk about awful!

Well, we're certainly talking apple & oranges. here.

The show..."is a work in progress". I don't know what the thought process is behind it, and it's not my place to say. If it works, yaaay for Dave.

Having met Dave...he does have a good case of "Dukakis skull". And coming from a guy with a 7 7/8 hat size...I know the big head.

He's kinda funny looking in that way.

 

[blabhead]

Re: This isn't about any one station

>
> I don't think dropping "In My Time Of Dying",

Good song!
>
> Anyway...
>
> I'm not advocating "Tea For One". I'm saying that the
> audience knows more than the half dozen Zeppelin songs that
> get killed by radio stations all over the world.

Robert Plant would agree with You on this from what I have heard him say.

 

[NotoriousN-I-K]

Re: This isn't about any one station

> >
> > I don't think dropping "In My Time Of Dying",
>
> Good song!
> >
> > Anyway...
> >
> > I'm not advocating "Tea For One". I'm saying that the
> > audience knows more than the half dozen Zeppelin songs
> that
> > get killed by radio stations all over the world.
>
> Robert Plant would agree with You on this from what I have
> heard him say.
>
Yes well Plant also hasnt seemed to mind the money that the awful radio programming has generated for him. Look at Floyd, darekside still ends up in the Billboard 200 album charts routinely today, how sad is that?.

 

[ciao99]

Then explain WJMN

" The older the audience the better the advertisers they can attract."

So why does WJMN do so well? They don't attract an older audience.
Seems the arguments are shaped so minoritiy audiences must be young and white audiences must be old.

 

[ciao99]

> > >
> > If people want to hear Pink Floyd or Led Zeppelin, listen
> to
> > a classic rock station. Kind of silly to put that stuff
> on
> > modern rock stations. WBCN shys (spelling) away from
> playing
> > current music and throws in too many of the geriatrics.
> >
> Couldn't disagree more...if you are going to play rock, and
> i mean all aspects of rock, it is essential to play the
> roots, i.e. ac/dc, led zep, floyd, and the doors among
> others. i think by including the older artists to the
> playlist expands your demo to the older generation to get
> them to listen to some of the new stuff and the new stuff
> will bring in the kids where they can listen to where it all
> began. but i do think they should play other hendrix songs
> besides hey joe and purple haze
>
Do you really want a station that is all over the place? It's like WILD-FM. There's no rhyme or reason to the playlist or the format.

 

[AllForADeuce]

> > Gotta agree with you about the massive amount of Pink
> Floyd
> > being played. What, did that band show up on all the
> > consultant's safe list? Everybody who's playing rock in
> > some form is playing Floyd, Zeppelin and Hendrix to
> death!!!
>
> During research (which will eventually be the death of radio
> because it's over-relied upon) those bands "test well" with
> the younger end of the targeted demos. So...get used to it.
> And be thankful the Tom Petty ebb & flow has subsided for a
> little while. It'll be back in July.


Research MY A$$. #1 reason I stopped listening to 'AAF was their awful playlist. Did research show taht people enjoy listening to THE SAME 3 PINK FLOYD SONGS FOR 10 YEARS IN A ROW?? According to AAF, Jimi Hendrix had 3 hits, The Dorrs, 3, Sabbath 4, etc etc etc. Not only was their band selection way too small, but they played the same damn songs over and over and over. What I liked about Ozone was he changed up the songs when he had to play the same bands. When I used to listen all day and I hear Aerosmith 5 times, unless they had a single out, I heard 4-5 different songs. Next day, again, some different tunes. If your audience LOVES Floyd half as much as you play them, then you can go deeper than 3 damn songs. AAF got boring too damn fast. Same songs by the same bands every day of every year. I haven't listenend to them in years and don't miss them or their format one bit.

 

[NotoriousN-I-K]

jamn explained

> " The older the audience the better the advertisers they can
> attract."
>
> So why does WJMN do so well? They don't attract an older
> audience.
> Seems the arguments are shaped so minoritiy audiences must
> be young and white audiences must be old.
>
Two things Ill say.

1. when you say why do they do so well? well Ive already explained that, the new rock stars are the hip hoppers, rap is this generation's "rock" in that its the music of youth culture and counterculture, plus Jamn is a damned good/solid radio station. That explains their ratings. But when you say why do they do so well we were actually talking about $$$$$$$$$, sales, billing and they do not make the kind of money that stations that target the male 25-54 dollar do like WEEI, WBZ, or to a lesser degree WBCN which used to bill HUGE duckets, not so much these days I'm told but then the whole industry is having billing issues. One year while I was there the station outbilled WBZ and made somewhere in the 38 million dollar range for one year, that's A LOT of money for a station in market number 9 (at the time Boston was number 9)

2. When you say: "Seems the arguments are shaped so minoritiy audiences must
be young and white audiences must be old". You misunderstand who is actually listening to Jamn, they target persons 18-34 which really means women. Being Boston their audience is mostly female and MOSTLY WHITE AND SUBURBAN, it's not a 'minority audience" at all. If you listen to the station 90% of the winners you hear are young and female, they're a CHR, rythmic CHR but a CHR. A great station but dont get it twisted their audience is live in places that end in "ton", Lexington, Stoughton, Canton, Burlington,,,,,,,,,,,, and yeah Boston.

 

[StereoBrain]

Re: This isn't about any one station

>
> Many air personalities don't know anything about the music
> they're playing.

BINGO! Very well put, Paul. I'm so sick of personalities who seem to try too hard to be funny. At the same time, they absolutely no input on any music that they are playing.

Allmusic.com has any info you need to know about any band imagined. Would it kill a personality to scan the website before trying to be the next Howard Stern?

 

[TravisWMLN]

> >
> Do you really want a station that is all over the place?
> It's like WILD-FM. There's no rhyme or reason to the
> playlist or the format.
>
Well that's not what i said...i'm saying you need ot mix old with new to keep audiences happy but also open up the playlist, like neanderpol was saying earlier, why make it too narrow of a playlist? wbcn and waaf both play acdc and ozzy...but they have different playlists...

 

[classicradionut]

Re: This isn't about any one station

Look at
> Floyd, darekside still ends up in the Billboard 200 album
> charts routinely today, how sad is that?.
>

It may be sad but doesn't that one album hold a record that may never be broken at this point for chart longevity? We're obviously not talking hundreds of weeks, we're talking over three decades! What would Kasey Casem say about that!!

It's the power of radio thats kept it there, radio that has played cuts from Dark Side of the Moon continuously all these years. Had it not been that way and stations had moved on, Dark Side would have returned to the same position all the other albums of that era of similar quality are now - obscurity. That's what having a song on all the consultants safe lists gets ya... lifetime royalty payments, fame and fortune. And they say radio is dead. Yea right. You don't see MTV playing Pink Floyd, but younger audiences somehow know and listen to them.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>

 

[neanderpol]

> Research MY A$$. #1 reason I stopped listening to 'AAF was
> their awful playlist. Did research show taht people enjoy
> listening to THE SAME 3 PINK FLOYD SONGS FOR 10 YEARS IN A
> ROW?? According to AAF, Jimi Hendrix had 3 hits, The Dorrs,
> 3, Sabbath 4, etc etc etc.

Yes. It does. My point exactly.

 

[MRadioDeeJay]

> New PD at AAF: duh, lets be like every other rock station
> in the country.
> AAF: um, yeah lets jump on the bandwagon and SUCK.
>
> Lets over play pink floyd and then go to Fall out boy.
> HMMMM what about Killswitch Engaged? Nah, too hard. Yeah.
> ZZZZZZZZ (listeners)
>
> this was a little skit that goes on behind closed doors at
> AAF. Thank you.
>


AHHH SHUT UP!!!! WAAAAA WAAAAAA WAAAAAA... listen to your ****in iPod bitch