AAF vs BCN

[Mickey37]

Right on, Paul.
To borrow from Tip O'Neill, All Radio Is Local.
That's why syndicated radio is such an insult, and why with a couple of rare exceptions (Howard Stern, Rush Limbaugh at one time), syndicated radio doesn't do as well in this particular market.

 

[Lucylu]

And because he went to BU, Howard always felt like a local.

 

[dumber than a box of hair]

Hey Lucy,

Where are you getting your numbers? Toucher and Rich in fact went UP from a 3.0 to a 3.3 Men 18+, their target demo. As a matter of fact, they beat Mistress Carrie in December by almost a point and a half. Check Arbitron.

Were you misinformed, lying, or just an employee of AAF?

As a matter of fact, they didn't. Carrie, in the same demo and time period, went from a 3.1 to a 4.2, also from Arbitron. 4.2 beats 3.3, last time I checked.

 

[Lucylu]

Lost to girl, how sad ;D ;D

 

[2004RedSox]

Neanderpaul is correct in pointing out that music content has taken a backseat to the importance on air personalities. Even back when music on the radio was more relevent (no mp3's, satelite or cd's to compete), BCN was king of the hill due to a potent on air line-up. Charles and Mark Pareteau anchored drive time with their own brand of irreverent humor with Ken Shelton playing the straight man mid-day. That line up along with the on-air branding hooked a lot of loyal p1 listeners. In my opinion, the station today that successfully runs with the formula that BCN employed is a station that plays no music --- WEEI. D&C, Dale & Holly, The Big Show (Irreverent drives with straight men in the middle). In todays crowded entertainment environment, commercial radio stations have to have the "did you hear what they said...." type personalities to capture meaningful numbers. Just my opinion.

 

[Varulven]

This was a plan by station owners (and enabled by record label owners) before the 1996 Telecommunications act really gave them power against the personality. It's old news. Corporations don't want radio stars, they want the on-air announcer to believe that they are nothing without the signal. While they demand ratings they put parameters on talent that keeps talent away. That's why you get soldiers like Carrie, Adam 12, the woman on afternoon drive on Oldies 103, a very limited window to be able to say what you want. Of course they flock to a Howard Stern while denying others with similar talent the ability to break through. You have to have the guts to break the rules as Stern did or be a soldier.

Many of us choose to do our own thing elsewhere. Let the soldiers be zombies and read from a script without even touching a disc and seeing who the songwriter is, who the producer is. We are in the world of Pink, Spears, K-Fed, Ron Artest. Hey, Willie Loco won't play basketball, keep Ron Artest off the stage. I saw him perform at the Billboard Awards in Atlanta this past September. Great food from Warner Brothers, thank you very much, but - ho hum...Artest was amusing, but nothing you'd pay to go see...unless he has a basketball in his hands.

 

[Neanderpaul]

This was a plan by station owners (and enabled by record label owners) before the 1996 Telecommunications act really gave them power against the personality. It's old news. Corporations don't want radio stars, they want the on-air announcer to believe that they are nothing without the signal. While they demand ratings they put parameters on talent that keeps talent away. That's why you get soldiers like Carrie, Adam 12, the woman on afternoon drive on Oldies 103, a very limited window to be able to say what you want. Of course they flock to a Howard Stern while denying others with similar talent the ability to break through. You have to have the guts to break the rules as Stern did or be a soldier.

Many of us choose to do our own thing elsewhere. Let the soldiers be zombies and read from a script without even touching a disc and seeing who the songwriter is, who the producer is. We are in the world of Pink, Spears, K-Fed, Ron Artest. Hey, Willie Loco won't play basketball, keep Ron Artest off the stage. I saw him perform at the Billboard Awards in Atlanta this past September. Great food from Warner Brothers, thank you very much, but - ho hum...Artest was amusing, but nothing you'd pay to go see...unless he has a basketball in his hands.

This is about WBCN vs. WAAF.

 

[Varulven]

Indeed it is about WAAF and WBCN, where Carrie and Adam12 work.

Funny how when you go off topic and attack your critics it is ok. When someone adds information that follows the thread, appreciate it.

 

[scooty430]

Neanderpaul,
this has been discussed several times before but I figure I might as you
I am curious to know from you if you might know why
what keep aaf from going back on paxton with AAF now on 97.7 in boston? I would love to know. I reallly miss AAF in springfield and hartford area when I drive from vt on my way home to the nyc area. my only guess is the advertising revenue

I honestly do not have an answer to the question. I'm sorry. I just don't know the technical aspects of how that worked, or what it takes to move city of license with regard to transmitter sites. I know there are several people on this board who are far more knowledgable on this topic that might be able to add information. I do know that the changeover didn't achieve the desired effect when I was still in the building. I assume that played into Entercom's decision to purchase WILD and simulcast. But again, not being privvy to the plans, I'm only speculating. Someone with more intricate knowledge would serve you better. Sorry...I'm just a wiseass with a big mouth and a microphone

Keeping on topic...I remember as a kid in Southie being forced to listen to WBCN due to the fact that we couldn't get WAAF in the projects, and WCOZ flipping to WZOU. But, every time we went to my cousin's house in Tewkbury, WAAF owned the radios in everyone's cars. Overall, my impression was always that WBCN had the superior personalities, and WAAF always played the better music back then. Save for Nocturnal Emissions and Beradini's Heavy Metal From Hell programs on WBCN, and Bob & Zip on WAAF.

It's funny how it all comes full circle.

IMHO, it has nothing to do with the music either station plays. I contend that the station whose personalities connect with the local audience best, will win. It really is that simple in my mind.

There's a reason why everyone seems to think that Adam 12 & Mark Hamilton are their favorites at WBCN. Both know what a Rosie Ruiz reference is, and who Johnny Kelly was, and remember the Channel and the Rat, and Paragon Park, and why hitting Buzzy's or Kelly's means/meant something. That's not to take away from Hardy, whom I consider a friend. But, he'll be the second to tell you...everyone Boston-born being first...that he's not from here, and that that hinders him sometimes. Not in his professional abilities, but there's a natural tendency for New Englanders to immediately suspect anyone not from here. Toucher & Rich are probably experiencing it much the way O&A did in their early days at WAAF. It took a while for the audience to warm up to them.

In my opinion Carrie, Hsu & Hill are well-liked at 'AAF because they're not only extremely capable of selling the format, but they're also the people you grew up with. Their listeners went to HS with them, or ran into them at the Natick Mall when they were kids. LB is loved because he fought when the Bruins were good. And we all loved a fighter. Spaz is every kid you hated/pitied in school. It's a good formula.

It doesn't matter if they play the same 300 songs on both stations. Bostonians don't listen for the music. They find the brand that they like, and they remain loyal to it. See: Chet & Natalie all those years, or Lobel now. You could do a survey and find out who does the best concerts, giveaways, bits, or whatever...have them all come up as "WAAF" and then ask that same person what their favorite station is..and they'll say "WBCN."

Trying to sway a Bostonian's pre-disposition toward what they have already chosen as their favorite station is incredibly difficult. The station who figures out how to connect with their target audience best, wins. It has nothing to do with music, or promotions. We are in the "please love me" business. And sometimes the people behind the desk don't really know what the audience thinks because they spend too much time analyzing weekly callout, or cost per point, and not enough time watching their audience react to the people who represent their stations. Those are the customers. Talent are the product. It's loyalty to the jock that captures those quarter hours. The music is just a buffer. It helps to play the right songs. But, it's more important to have the right people. Isn't that the new mantra "Content is king?"

The only variable content...is the on air person. The song remains the same no matter what transmitter it emanates from.

My opinion. I'm comfortable enough expressing it, to admit I might be wrong.

Interesting idea, that personality and loyalty trumps all. Having grown up in Boston, and now living in LA, I think there is a lot of truth to this argument. Boston is a traditional place. This is why, for many people, WBCN died when they dumped Ken Shelton, Charles, Carter, Mark, (his later problems notwhistanding) and started playing Limp Bizkit and Korn 24/7. They might as well have changed the call letters. They did, though, attract a new audience of kids. They listened for a few years until they outgrew the nu-metal/alternative music, which, unlike the Stones and the Beatles, is not timeless.

One wonders how they might have done if they had just adapted a little bit, playing some of the better new artists, keeping their personalities, and preserving the legacy of WBCN.

 

[Mickey37]

Indeed it is about WAAF and WBCN, where Carrie and Adam12 work.

Funny how when you go off topic and attack your critics it is ok. When someone adds information that follows the thread, appreciate it.

With all due respect, I don't see how the offering that Neanderpaul commented on "followed the thread." Paul was trying to bring the thread back to its focus.

 

[TowerBuzz]

This was a plan by station owners (and enabled by record label owners) before the 1996 Telecommunications act really gave them power against the personality. It's old news. Corporations don't want radio stars, they want the on-air announcer to believe that they are nothing without the signal. While they demand ratings they put parameters on talent that keeps talent away. That's why you get soldiers like Carrie, Adam 12, the woman on afternoon drive on Oldies 103, a very limited window to be able to say what you want. Of course they flock to a Howard Stern while denying others with similar talent the ability to break through. You have to have the guts to break the rules as Stern did or be a soldier.

Many of us choose to do our own thing elsewhere. Let the soldiers be zombies and read from a script without even touching a disc and seeing who the songwriter is, who the producer is. We are in the world of Pink, Spears, K-Fed, Ron Artest. Hey, Willie Loco won't play basketball, keep Ron Artest off the stage. I saw him perform at the Billboard Awards in Atlanta this past September. Great food from Warner Brothers, thank you very much, but - ho hum...Artest was amusing, but nothing you'd pay to go see...unless he has a basketball in his hands.

Again you come from a different era and that not withstanding you're also a different type of listener. You dont like hearing it but you are not anything like a typical rock radio fan, you think more like a fan of jazz and Ill explain. You cannot say that most personalities dont bother to find out who wrote what or who produced whichever song. That is your opinion Joe as always. Most current rock listeners do not use radio the way that you do and you think that your opinion is represntative of all when it truly is the minority and a small minority at that. Most rock radio listeners are not preoccupied with who produced a given song etc. It is just not important to them. If you listen to jazz raedio you'll hear who played every instrument on the session, that Art Tatum did it in two takes etc because those are the things that Jazz fans obsess over, rock fans of this era are not so anal. They want to be entertained and that is not entertaining, it is just parroting what is in the liner notes which a fan that is truly interested in can read for him or herself or looks up on the internet. If it's a case like the new Pearl jam single which features a cover of Neil Young "rockin in a free world" done live where Bono and the Edge from U2 guest on the track, that is about the extent that people care and you will hear every jock in town who plays the new single spout that info. It really does not take any talent to read an album sleeve. That is not a knock on men like Charles, Ken and Mark etc but it is the truth and what Charles and mark did at least went beyond just that. Toucher and Rich were not hired to tell men 18-34 that Brendan Obrien produced Pearl Jam, AGAIN. It means nothing hearing that on the air to any pearl Jam fan becasue they already know that. You do not think like a listener Joe because you're from another generation and bcn and aaf are not trying to appeal to YOU, and you being a self appointed "rock journalist" just do not listen to radio the way listeners do. For the most part anyone who works innnnnn radio in any facet of it is not a typical listener. Who does not know that?.

 

[content]

well said.

 

[Varulven]

No, it wasn't well said. The problem is that corporations do not allow talent to flourish.
Anyone who doesn't want to eat that reality is delusional. There will come a time when competition comes back, but over two decades of decadence and radio deterioration have not entertained the masses.

It comes down to entertainment and these alleged "on air jocks" of today are merely soldiers. If they step out of line they are fired. And have to move far far away, beaten down and obedient they might get a little award, but they aren't in the market they wanted to be in; the market they truly called home.

Meanwhile Howard Stern rocked the boat, believed in himself, and got the reward.

AAF and BCN hardly entertain. Not like they used to.

 

[Neanderpaul]

The problem is that corporations do not allow talent to flourish. Anyone who doesn't want to eat that reality is delusional.

You might be correct on the management, but as far as your statements that today's jock's are unqualified, they couldn't be more untrue.

You would be hard-pressed to find a more educated air talent on the music they play every day than Bradley J, or Mike Hsu. Adam 12 also knows his stuff forward, and back. I've spent hours with both Bradley & Hamilton talking about music. They both possess encyclopedic recall of artists most would have to research to identify. Mike Hsu is considered one of the most knowledgable air talent in the industry when it comes to Heavy Metal. Juanita at BCN is also on top of her stuff. As are John Laurenti at WBOS, Kevin Redding at WROR, and Doc up at WHEB in Portsmouth.

You have a hair across your backside toward anyone who doesn't agree with you. And that's fine. But, you're absolutely off-base when it comes to your assessment of the folks who currently do the job that you never have.

Just because they don't provide the entire biographical background on Private Lightning when they crack the mic, doesn't mean they don't know that Billy Squier sang for Piper, and their signing was the reason that A&M Records chose to pass on Van Halen when Gene Simmons shopped their demo. Or that Kim Mitchell's biggest pre-Go For A Soda hit was called "Battle Scar" with Canadian band Max Webster...which only WAAF exposed to Boston radio audiences back in the days when WBCN was busy playing Sniff N' The Tears records, and you were riding Harvey Wharfield's coattails.

See...you assume that you're the only one with useless information. Although you'd love everyone to think so. You also assume that the audiences of both WAAF and WBCN aren't being well served by their station of choice. You're wrong. You're out of the demo, and (and here I'll even afford you the credit you desperately seek) because you're "in the business", you are absolutely incapable of listening to radio as a typical listener. You cannot hear it the way the real consumers do. None of us can. You are tainted by your glance behind the curtain. Everything you say, and type, is done so with an absolute inability to remain objective.

And here's another factoid for you. The great majority of real radio consumers are pleased with what they hear every day. It wasn't better back then. It's just as good today. Just like those who think the old Sat. Night Live cast were perfect compared to today's cast. It's all relative. And Boston Rock listeners overall, are pleased with the choices they have. They have more than New York & L.A. And the talent currently working at both WBCN & WAAF are every bit as educated on the music they play as Ken Shelton, Catherine Lauren, John Garabedian, or Ian O'Malley ever were. Your beef appears to be with corporate radio ownership's squelching of the talent. And that may be valid. But, you're quick on the trigger to assassinate the abilities of those who do the job. You're wrong and you don't want to hear it because it doesn't fit your agenda.

In yet another attempt to keep this related to the original thread...

I always wondered why WBCN never went back to Bradley J as a full-time host. He has credibility and heritage when it comes to WBCN. And as we've already tabled...Bostonians like what they know.

He knows the product. Sells it with style that a lot of personalities lack. I think WBCN would be well-served to trade on those positives.

 

[scooty430]

No, it wasn't well said. The problem is that corporations do not allow talent to flourish.
Anyone who doesn't want to eat that reality is delusional. There will come a time when competition comes back, but over two decades of decadence and radio deterioration have not entertained the masses.

It comes down to entertainment and these alleged "on air jocks" of today are merely soldiers. If they step out of line they are fired. And have to move far far away, beaten down and obedient they might get a little award, but they aren't in the market they wanted to be in; the market they truly called home.

Meanwhile Howard Stern rocked the boat, believed in himself, and got the reward.

AAF and BCN hardly entertain. Not like they used to.

Agree with you about BCN and AAF. They are totally corporate and soulless, and have been since about 1990, maybe mid-90s for BCN. I feel sorry for the kids who think BCN and AAF are cool - that's all they have.

Howard is an interesting case. He is an intelligent and articulate guy, and when he comments on the news or pop culture, he has some really poignant things to say. He definitely was talented enough to be able to set his own rules. However, would he have gone as far as he did without the "butt bongo" and let's-make-fun-of-stutterers and homeless people stuff? In other words, if you "set your own rules," and have talent, is that enough? Or do you have to be staging public sex contests (Opie and Anthony) or hold your urine contests (some station in Sacramento) to call your own shots?

Sorry if I'm drifting off the topic here.

 

[scooty430]

In yet another attempt to keep this related to the original thread...

I always wondered why WBCN never went back to Bradley J as a full-time host. He has credibility and heritage when it comes to WBCN. And as we've already tabled...Bostonians like what they know.

He knows the product. Sells it with style that a lot of personalities lack. I think WBCN would be well-served to trade on those positives.

Bradley J is overqualified to be a WBCN DJ at this point. I used to listen to him when he did the evening shift in the late 80s. He was fantastic. He mixed songs together, faded stuff in and out, created song collages. He had the coolest delivery of anyone on the station, and yes, he really knew the music.

To have this guy playing pre-selected My Chemical Romance and Linkin Park tracks off a big hard drive, with no chance to say anything or be creative would be a waste. Especially for an audience of teenage waste-oids too busy playing Grand Theft Auto and IMing their friends to really notice the music in the background.

By the way, I visit Boston often, and grew up there. Now I live in LA. The radio here is WAY better, and other then BCN's glory days, always has been. Try out Indie 103 online and you'll see one example.

 

[greg11]

You have a hair across your backside toward anyone who doesn't agree with you. And that's fine. But, you're absolutely off-base when it comes to your assessment of the folks who currently do the job that you never have.

Neaderpaul, I couldn't agree with you more. In the time I have been on this board I have noticed that Varulven seems to be stuck in the 50's or 60's...everything is about how things used to be waaay back when... this is the year 2007...there are new people on the radio and some things are done differently. Maybe the listeners wants, needs and expectations are a little different now than they were years ago. I think there are some talented people on the air in Boston...but most of them do not have the same freedoms that jocks had years ago. Times have changed. The only jocks Varulven seems to like are the old timers that most people don't care about anymore.

 

[Varulven]

It is really sad that people in the current era are so conditioned they can't think objectively.

I like Juanita, I like Bradley Jay, and one could make the argument they come from the OLD era.
Certainly they pre-date Neanderpaul, Carrie, Adam12, etc.

AAF and WBCN have failed to generate new personalities. Personality made radio great. Radio was invaded by people that make their obligation the shareholders instead of the audience. The "suits" are piranha who will throw Rob Barnett overboard for choosing David Lee Roth instead of talent. Now THAT was an old move, and Rob Barnett is a talented fellow. I like Mr. Barnett as well, but would never have made that catastrophic move. OK, Lee Roth didn't work, what do we do?: LET'S FIRE ROB.

Not a good mentality to fire a good soldier when they should've been smart enough NOT to put DLR into motion to begin with. We were dealing with a major established radio monster, HOWARD STERN. If Lee Roth was going to give him a run for his money DLR would've been on the radio as Stern's competition prior to the exile to Sirius.

They've cut the pie up so thinly that you have a niche market for Latino music, a niche market for fake I Pod (Mike FM, JACK FM, call it what you will), you have a niche market for Sports (or in this area, a big market for sports), you have no market for progressive talk because the powers that be see no benefit to helping progressives get elected - yet, dare I say it, Progressive Talk is the new radical; this is one of the few places in radio where personality shines.

Stephanie Miller gets overbearing BUT I will take her over Carrie, Adam 12, and even people like Juanita and
Bradley Jay (that I like). Stephanie can have you fold over with laughter. AAF and BCN have failed to find
jocks that can throw the zingers, who can fill a nightclub on their own without major radio support.

Last I checked, Walter is filling clubs in the year 2007, not 1967, a little after he had the genius to be the only guy to tape Jimi Hendrix and Little Richard live. Last I checked both Hendrix and Richard are selling lots of records in the new millennium. Old is Beethoven. Jimi Hendrix will get the attention of a 19 year old rock & roller a lot quickly than ADAM 12. As I've said so often "There's nothing like a hit." Jimi is a hit, Adam is not.
40 years is not "old" in the scheme of things because rock & roll is still vital, and even Tony Bennet is considered hip with space age bachelor pad music becoming all the rage. A good rock & roll show can play something from Rob Thomas, segue in to a Jerry Vale tune, and come out of it with a rare Led Zeppelin live track, their thunderous version of "Blueberry Hill". It's the personality that threads it. My point is that there are few personalities in radio today. The people being hired might as well be machines manufactured in the Matrix. They don't even REALIZE they have no skill, no sizzle, little talent other than the ability to read from a script. How utterly dull.


There's a jock incognito on this board that is so uninformed he knows little or nothing about the songwriters of major major hits. Code name: TowerBuzz. He fails to have (or find) key information people want to know about - why Wikipedia is so popular these days (and, clearly, that "personality" is even too lazy to go to Wikipedia or AMG or Muze or another information source). They think they can get behind a mic and people will love them. They are wrong. Now instead of insulting me Tower Buzz can shell out the 24.95 to purchase one of the 6 or 7 music encyclopedias I've contributed to. That would be an immense help to his audience, if we can call it an audience. It would help his personal growth.

Throw the laziness in with unwarranted ego and you get the mess that we find on radio today. Like I said, new voices will sping up when competition comes back into vogue. Until then, you will continue to find a steady diet of homogenized radio. It tastes awful.

The defensive mechanisms built into the jocks posting here validate my various points.

 

[Lucylu]

Two points of order: Bradley Jay may be knowledgeable about some music but the delivery is a cheap Hunter Thompson rip-off : and Sniff 'n the Tears RULED!

 

[Varulven]

You could be correct about the Hunter Thompson thing. When I said I like Bradley Jay that's as a person. As a jock he is better than the current crop, but falls far below many of his contemporaries. He's a great guy, though, and a nice human being. I think his real name is Bradely J. Huckins. As stated, he's good, but Stephanie Miller is light years beyond them as far as wit and throwing the clever line out there quickly - flying without a net.

What was really odd was hearing N.E.I.A. teacher Bill Abbatte on WZLX instead of doing the sports on WBCN yesterday afternoon.