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AAR is flat

Re: Ed Schultz and Air America

First and foremost, with all due respect sir, are you a media buyer, or a national sales rep? If not, how do you know what advertisers are looking for?

You must not have read my post correctly, apparently. I said very clearly that I meant credibility in terms of the Syndicator, not the host. Are you, sir, challenging the crediblity of Talk Radio Network, one of the most reputable syndicators in the country? If so, this is obviously an opinion based upon your personal emotions rather than reality.

If an advertiser is plunking down hundreds of thousands of advertising dollars, you better believe the media buyer will know about what's going on with the syndicator. They read too, ya know.

If you've yet to see the bad press for AAR ennumerated, then you either do not read very much, or choose to ignore what you do read. The problems of AAR are not only well-publicized, but a matter of real public record now since the Multicultural lawsuit. You can't blame a bona fide court settlement on right-wing blogs and Murdoch. This is absolute rhetoric, and has absolutely no place on a board meant for broadcasting professionals, in my opinion. AAR agreed to settle the Multicultural lawsuit. If the suit was meritless, the certainly wouldn't have done so.

My opinion, while it may still be opinion, is based upon my experience in the real radio business. Can you say the same?
 
Re: Ed Schultz and Air America

> Many advertisers (I'm thinking specifically GEICO,

Advertising with way too much frequency on WLIB.

> Glaxo Smithkline

Ditto.

Apparently, AAR's programming isn't scaring them off.<P ID="signature">______________
also known as tombetz.</P>
 
Bloomberg

> Bloomberg was financed by Bloomberg who paid the bills there
> for quite sometime. Bloomberg Business Radio was not a
> license to print money.

Bloomberg's business is in the terminals they place in brokerage houses and such.

TV and Radio is just there to promote the brand and the data services.<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>
 
Re: Ed Schultz and Air America

> First and foremost, with all due respect sir, are you a
> media buyer, or a national sales rep? If not, how do you
> know what advertisers are looking for?

First you were a radio station owner and now you are telling us you are a media buyer and sales rep? Which is it? You made the assertion, now show us the evidence. Of show sponsors who are comfortable with advertising on political talk radio, which are the ones that are driven away by AAR "scandals." Certainly not Oreck, psychic doctors with tape series, diet pills, and all the other usual suspects which show up on talk shows of all kinds.

> You must not have read my post correctly, apparently. I said
> very clearly that I meant credibility in terms of the
> Syndicator, not the host. Are you, sir, challenging the
> crediblity of Talk Radio Network, one of the most reputable
> syndicators in the country? If so, this is obviously an
> opinion based upon your personal emotions rather than
> reality.

I have no idea what you are talking about. You are on about people sponsoring shows on AAR, which is a network not a syndicator. I'm challenging you to show us the evidence to back up your positions. Post some links... ANYTHING other than just your opinion which you claim is based on your own research and evidence gathering. If it's all just your personal opinion, nobody will have a problem with that - everyone is entitled to one - just say so. But if you are claiming it to be backed up with evidence, show us the evidence.

> If you've yet to see the bad press for AAR ennumerated, then
> you either do not read very much, or choose to ignore what
> you do read. The problems of AAR are not only
> well-publicized, but a matter of real public record now
> since the Multicultural lawsuit. You can't blame a bona fide
> court settlement on right-wing blogs and Murdoch. This is
> absolute rhetoric, and has absolutely no place on a board
> meant for broadcasting professionals, in my opinion. AAR
> agreed to settle the Multicultural lawsuit. If the suit was
> meritless, the certainly wouldn't have done so.

OK, so let me get this straight. Your tossing around conclusions which you claim are based on information you have on hand (but won't show us) which says AAR is mired in scandal is perfectly on topic, but anyone who asks for that evidence, notes where such "scandal" stories are printed, and questions your position on that is totally off topic?

It sounds much more like you are upset that people are questioning your conclusions and because you can't or won't answer the questions from those asking for copies of the "evidence" you suggest you have, it's a lot easier to scream that the entire board has been overrun by amateurs who are tearing the forum apart. That's called "folding" and "tapdancing."

I am well aware of the scandal stories and where they come from. One of the main driving forces of the scandals even saw fit to quote some of my challenges of his assertions and conclusions on his "news site." I also managed to tear down one of the major accusations that some of these people were making about supposed law enforcement agency investigations by actually picking up the phone and calling the agency in question and asking them. I then learned there was no active investigation, posted the findings, and that accusation magically disappeared. It's amazing just how thin much of this nonsense is totally made up or hyped beyond all recognition and can be torn down just by one person picking up the phone and finding out what's real for themselves.

This Multicultural lawsuit is not earth shattering news. They didn't get paid what they were promised so they got a judgment. That happens with advertisers and programmers in this business every day. I've had to pursue deadbeat clients before because their checks bounced or never showed up. Is this breaking news? No. Is it a testament to Al Franken's personal ethics as some of these articles have implied? No more so than if the Second Zion Church of the Tabernacle of Prayer for the Enlightenment of Brazil Nuts didn't pay their radio bill means that the pastor is in league with Satan.

The rhetoric that creates these major threads usually comes from those who can't sleep nights knowing there is a libtalk network on the air. When these posts erupt, there -will- be replies about it whether you see that as rhetoric or not. Get used to it.

> My opinion, while it may still be opinion, is based upon my
> experience in the real radio business. Can you say the same?

Sure can, but what we can take from this reply of yours is that you are now telling us everything you've written prior to this in this thread is actually just your personal opinion, not based on any verifiable fact or information - just your own personal views. Thank you for admitting that. I totally respect your personal opinions on this and although I don't agree with all of your views, they have just as much place here as those contrary to them.
 
Re: Ed Schultz and Air America

When did I once tell you I was a media buyer or sales rep? I'm not, nor did I imply that I was. But since I do business with these people on a regular basis, I know a thing or two about how their business works.

Air America Radio is a network, yes. A network that's in the business of syndication. I'm not sure I understand your assertion that AAR "is a network not a syndicator".

Perhaps you hear Oreck and psychic doctors and diet pills on AAR and everywhere else because these are actually per-inquiry type ads. I do not know this for sure, nor am I claiming it to be fact. However, it would make sense. This is how a good many syndicators fill unsold inventory. These sorts of advertisers would probably allow their PI ads to air on public access TV if it were allowed. To state that these folks are on AAR doesn't do much to bolster your point.

I was not on particularly on the topic of people sponsoring shows. The question was asked "How would you compare the syndication strategy and financial status of Ed Schultz to Air America?" My answer included the fact that Jones is a much more experienced and reputable syndicator than AAR, and thus likely to have more credibility in the eyes of advertisers.

Let's be honest...anybody who keeps up with the major trade publications has seen the stories about AAR and it's woes. Just look at archives for both Radio and Records and Inside Radio if you want the proof that these stories exist. And I would say both R&R and IR are nowhere close to being right-wing media outlets.

Which 'evidence' have I allegedly claimed to have and yet not shown? When something is as public as AAR's history, who needs to cite specific examples of media outlets which ran the stories? Do you need a link to the story someplace to know that Susquehanna's stations were acquired by Cumulus? No. It's common industry knowledge. If Mr. Spitzer were not looking into AAR's actions regarding the Boys and Girls Club, why on earth would all the major trade publications have reported it? They wouldn't. Also, just because you pick up the phone and call an agency to ask if they are investgating somebody and they tell you no doesn't mean that in fact they aren't. Investigating agencies don't work this way, and certainly don't make it public, or usually even admit it, when they are performing an investigation. This would generally defeat the purpose and make thier jobs harder.

The Multicultural lawsuit is not earthshattering news, no, but it's definitely testament to the fact that AAR has had troubles in the past. Sure, it happens to advertisers and programmers every day. But, it doesn't happen to those who aren't in financial trouble. Also, never once have I ever challenged the ethics of any AAR personality. Your reference to Mr. Franken has no bearing on our conversation here.

I'm personally glad Liberal Talk is out there, even though I'm a conservative. I see nothing at all wrong with having the other viewpoint represented on the airwaves. I think debate is healthy for America. However, that I make an observation or two about their business doesn't mean I want it to cease to exist.
 
Ignore them and they'll go away

Dear Broker:

As one who would rather talk radio than politics, I urge you to stay. If people like you leave, the political groupies drive out all discussion of radio.

Ignore Dampier and he will go away. He is a Rochester, New York political activist who creates websites for non-profits. He has nothing to do with radio. He contributes nothing here, all he does is attack and detract.

You have already seen his tactics.

* He does not compose posts. He interjects shots into the posts of others.
* He does not contribute anything new. He attacks those that do.
* He demands proof of others' statements. He offers none of his own to contradict what others have said.
* He claims sources cited by those with whom he does not agree are biased.
* He challenges the motives of those with whom he does not agree (usually claiming conservative bias on their part). His posts are politically motivated, so he assumes everyone else's are.
* It's all about the game of debate for him. But he does not argue his own case, he only attacks yours.
* He doesn't try to win arguements, only to have others lose.
* If he can't argue against what you have said, he will twist what you have said.
* He is right. Anyone else is wrong.
* His opinions are valid. Your's are not.
* If he doesn't want to hear it, it must be wrong.


He is not the only one playing this game here (although he is one of the more blatant). Nor is this practice limited to people on the left. Conservatives (like racoonradio) are also guilty. Some of them have found the Off-Air board (something to be thankful for today). Maybe they will take their petty little political arguements over there.

In the meantime, ignore them. Don't reply to them. Don't get sucked in. Just talk about radio and reply to others who do the same. I learned all this the hard way. You can't reason with these people because all they are doing is looking for an opening to attack. They are not willing to consider anything you might say. They are why most people are turned off to politics.

Life is too short.

Happy Thanksgiving.



>
> Of course, I have no doubt that when I return from
> Thanksgiving vacation next week, there will be a half-dozen
> replies to this post from folks explaining away those past
> problems and blaming them on right-wingers. Then the
> discussion will turn to politics rather than radio. Happens
> every time when intelligent radio people attempt to discuss
> talk radio. We get bombarded by snippy comments from people
> who have certainly never owned stations, and most likely
> have never programmed talk radio.
>
> As I said, I'm not even entirely sure why I even visit the
> News/Talk board. The climate here is markedly different than
> the rest of Radio-Info where, for the most part, real radio
> professionals come to discuss the business based upon our
> experiences and expertise.
>
 
Re: Ignore them and they'll go away

> Ignore Dampier and he will go away. He is a Rochester, New
> York political activist who creates websites for
> non-profits. He has nothing to do with radio. He
> contributes nothing here, all he does is attack and detract.

Thank you for illustrating that on all things, your credibility to speak with authority, especially about me, has been, is, and always will be suspect at best. Evidently you managed to use the same tactics the CIA used in attempting to ascertain whether Iraq had WMD (by using Google) and, like them, you struck out.

Since I use my real name here while others hide behind handles, it's not too difficult to play Google, although I'm sure you had to wade through a lot of pirate and basketball references along the way.

1) I'm not sure what a "political activist" is in your mind. Am I employed in any field of politics? No. Do I receive any income from an entity to promote its agenda? No. Do I write a blog? No. Do I vote and speak about the issues I am interested in, here and elsewhere? Yes. That's called being a good citizen in a democracy. Strike one.

2) I have never created a website in my life. I volunteer as president of a non-profit group that provides web space for more than 500 different local community service organizations, churches, clubs, and non-profits. I do it without compensation of any kind and with no restriction on the groups we host, whether I agree or disagree with them. Strike two.

3) I very much have a history in radio. Do I have to justify it to your satisfaction? What do you think. Here's a tip for rational living - don't make assumptions and conclusions based entirely on a Google search. Strike three, and your credibility is out.

> You have already seen his tactics.

Oooh... I'm quaking.

> * He does not compose posts. He interjects shots into the
> posts of others.

Evidently you don't actually read the forums here because you'll find a lot of posts composed by me. I also reply to others. That's called participation. As to this "interjecting shots" reference, pot to kettle.

> * He does not contribute anything new. He attacks those
> that do.

In the world of your talking points, disagreeing or asking for proof is "attacking." Are we playing the politics of message forum destruction or the criminalization of bulletin boards? I want to make sure I have the right talking points from you.

> * He demands proof of others' statements. He offers none
> of his own to contradict what others have said.

Oh no... I asked people to actually back up their statements when they claim authority or access to detailed information! Slap me silly. Before demanding that people who hold a different view provide evidence to refute something, how about we ask for evidence from the person claiming authority and evidence to back up their original position. If there is no evidence, and that's what happened here, then it's simply a matter of personal opinion, and everyone is entitled to one. Case/thread closed.

> * He claims sources cited by those with whom he does not
> agree are biased.

Anyone who takes a moment to look at folks like Brian Maloney and Michelle Malkin who are touted as "industry experts" who are the basis of so many of the reports I challenge will come to the same conclusion. As far as newspaper columnists, they are by their very nature held to a different set of standards. Do I claim the Murdoch press, for example, has a position to take on this story? Sure do, especially when some of the same columnists wrote that AAR would never have any listeners, that the "liberal media" was ignoring the "scandal" story, and many of the "stories" relied on quotations from each other and represented as news gathering, which it wasn't. We've been through this thread over the summer, so no point in going over it again.

> He is not the only one playing this game here (although he
> is one of the more blatant). Nor is this practice limited
> to people on the left. Conservatives (like racoonradio) are
> also guilty. Some of them have found the Off-Air board
> (something to be thankful for today). Maybe they will take
> their petty little political arguements over there.

Oh how bipartisan of you. Those of us who've been here awhile realize this conversion is rather recent on your part. But I suppose it would help to stand even on this ice if you are going to accuse people of playing politics, because the thin ice you were on before would have failed had Biddles the Cat walked across it.

> In the meantime, ignore them. Don't reply to them. Don't
> get sucked in. Just talk about radio and reply to others
> who do the same. I learned all this the hard way.

This is hysterical. If you "learned all this the hard way" why do you continue to respond to "those people." You just spent a lot of time ignoring me by composing this Hannity-style "list." How amusing.

> Life is too short.

But long enough for you to write all this.

Here's my list, because life is long and I don't need to run away:

1) Apart from this message which you wrote, my posts aren't about you or me or any other individual here. It's about the information. Every message rises and falls on its own merit. When you say something coherent, I'll reply that I agree with you. When you waste time with this nutty attempt to... what... embarrass me? Bore others? Play den mother to the wounded? that's when it's not about the information but about personalities.

2) Reply or don't. Agree or not. That's your right and your decision. Does it matter to me what you do? Of course not.

3) If you say it and then claim authority, proof, or sources, be prepared to back it up with evidence of the authority, proof, or information about your sources. If it's your personal opinion, say so - people may agree or disagree, but you have every right to make it.

4) When you can't debate the facts, we get messages like the one I am replying to now, which tapdances off the dance floor of information and into the personalities concession stand, and you just bought the Family Val-U Pack.

This aspect of the thread closed when thebroker wrote that the views he presented were his own opinions. I respect that and considered it closed. Now you're here to present us with this Wounded Doe routine. Take the thorn out of your own paw and have a good holiday. :)
 
Re: Ignore them and they'll go away

mwebster:

I have absolutely no intention of leaving, even though I get quite frustrated sometimes. I could probably be considered a political activist myself. However, that's not what this board is about, so I try my flat-best to keep my politics out of it. I learn so much from RI...it is truly a great resource for our industry. And, I've always said that it's my sincere hope that I am able to give as much as I get here.

I'm quite active on several boards here, mostly in the Southeast (Charlotte, SC, Georgia, etc.). I think that anybody who read through a few of my posts would see that I'm truly here to talk radio, not politics. I wish I could say the same for some of the other regular contributors to the News/Talk board. Programming News/Talk on my stations which carry the format is one of the most fun things I do. It's not about politics to me, but about being a part of good radio. That, and cash flow! (I jest).

I hope you and your family have enjoyed as great a Thanksgiving as me and mine, and I look forward to more spirited radio debate!


-TheBroker



And PS...as a response to Dampier's latest post, it is certainly not my intent to 'hide behind' a screenname. Look at my email address, do a quick google search, and it's not too hard to find out who I am. I'm proud of what I've accomplished in the radio business, and I see no need to hide. In fact, many of the RI regulars know who I am, and a good many of them I consider to be personal friends. No, I'm not hiding by any means.
 
Re: Ignore them and they'll go away

> And PS...as a response to Dampier's latest post, it is
> certainly not my intent to 'hide behind' a screenname.

I wasn't actually referring to you. :) If people want to use a handle, that doesn't bother me. But if people want to use a handle while playing Google Exposé....

With a better understanding of where you were coming from, I have no issue with you. I don't agree with everything you wrote, but there is peace in the valley.
 
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