AAR loses Philly

davideduardo · Oct 1, 2005

Re: WIXY / WDOK

> > > Generally AAR is looking to find a more powerful
> > > affiliate....WHAT was a candle in a sea of
> > > blowtorches....unfortunately the station just didn't
> > > broadcast far enough.
> >
> > Weaker stations have won before with superior content.
> Just
> > ask OA about WIXY.
> >
>
> Having lived in Cleveland many years ago, I never had any
> problem picking up 1260 (the former WIXY), even in the
> suburbs. Nowadays, with the AM band being more crowded, it
> may be a different story.
>
> Keep in mind that during WIXY's heyday, FM wasn't much of a
> force. Therefore, there were far fewer stations competing.
> In other words, this was when most people listened to the AM
> band.

Even in the early 60's WDOK, soon to become WIXY, had a horrible signal at night to the eastern suburbs. By the time you got to Richmond Heights, it was pretty bad, and in the Chagrin Falls and Willoughby area, non-existent.

In 1960, the only AMs fully covering Cleveland's metro area were 850, 1220 and 1100. This is why CLKW got good rating sin Cleveland in that era... it covered where the local staitons did not get in.

WIXY did not win by superior content. WHK was declining, and the other CHRs had faded off... it won by default.
>

OldAkronite · Oct 1, 2005

Northeast Ohio Checking In

> You're quite right about the exurban migration, at least in
> your part of the country. Here in the more tightly-packed,
> slower-growing northeast, there are both natural and
> economic barriers to that kind of extreme market sprawl. Go
> too far south from Cleveland and you're in Akron, go too far
> east and you're in Ashtabula and go too far west and you're
> in, er, Mansfield or Sandusky or somewhere else.

Very true. But the "Cleveland market" sphere of influence goes far enough east and southwest that the small signal AMs have trouble. In WIXY's day, the station didn't have to serve much beyond Solon, and now, that area and Geauga County are now suburbs. Not to mention fast-growing Lake County. To the southwest, Medina County has grown like weeds in the past 10 years. Medina itself is basically a Cleveland suburb these days, and has roughly doubled in size in the past 20 years.

It's not nearly as pronounced a sprawl as a market like Phoenix, but it's put stations like 1260 and 1300 (especially 1300) at a disadvantage. Heck, even 1220 has trouble reaching most of Medina County at night due to its protection to the southwest.

> That leaves at least a little more promise for signals like
> the old WIXY, which still cover a substantial portion of the
> market, especially by day.

They've probably lost about 10% of the current Cleveland market population due to outer suburban growth. Then again, folks who populate newly built out areas in Summit County and places like Streetsboro (Portage County) aren't IN the Cleveland market anymore, despite northern Summit County's historic inclusion in the Cleveland "suburbs".

In the market or not, if these folks commute to Cleveland, those are listeners those stations would like to reach.

Medina County, by the way, is IN the Cleveland market, despite the presence of WQMX/94.9 Medina, a country station operating in and serving the Akron market. And despite the presence of Akron suburb Wadsworth in the county...

> Right - by matching the programming to the signal it
> reaches. I'm not quite sure what niche you get with
> Cleveland's south suburbs and the city (OA? OA?), but
> there's got to be something you can do with it. For now, I'd
> say Radio Disney's not the worst option.

It'd probably work as a libtalker, in the absence of Radio Disney. It's fuzzy in the far western suburbs, OK in between, and doesn't really do anything anywhere near Lake County, since its current pattern is relatively recent and has to protect, of course, 1260 out of Erie. But there's probably enough potential listeners to pick out of whatever 1350's getting up there.

> Substitute "any progressive talk syndicator" for AAR, and
> we're in complete agreement - as witness Schultz's recent
> clearance on KSL, about as far from the "500-watt daytimer"
> level as it gets.

Displacing, as even mentioned this week on Stephanie Miller's show, Bill O'Reilly of all people. Porcine creatures may be flying near Salt Lake.

-OA______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a>

ajhenderson · Oct 3, 2005

Re: Northeast Ohio Checking In

> Displacing, as even mentioned this week on Stephanie
> Miller's show, Bill O'Reilly of all people. Porcine
> creatures may be flying near Salt Lake.

You're right OA; although I don't necessarily believe that KSL got rid of O'Reilly - KFMS perhaps offered a live clearance after Mancow and WW1 got excited. After all, even though I can hear KSL 600 miles south at night, and have listened to O'Reilly some nights while driving, most people aren't listening. Although honestly, I don't see how anyone is listening to that boring station. I'm learning by observation of what Bonneville is doing to KTAR that they aren't the best group for running heritage talkers.

Seems to me that although they've been doing it since CC's rebranded KALL stole ex-KSL evening sportstalker Bill Riley, Bonneville would rather not run five hours of (yawn) Lars Larson every night (9-11pm, mid-3am). Even if they wanted Schultz, they could have bumped O'Reilly back to his old 9-11 time slot and kept Larson, of the same syndicator, from midnight-3; Lars is lucky to have that clearance anyway. I don't see why KSL dumped the Factor unless they were forced to.

By the way, since when do huge heritage stations run so much tape-delayed talk?

The fact that KSL is now simulcast on 102.7 (KSL-FM out of Midvale) shows that, even in a severely over-FMed market, that people have left the AM dial and 1160's listenership is not repopulating. If 97.5 positioned themselves that way, they could fill a strong void, IMHO, in the market for more exciting talk. Perhaps KSL suffers a fall, even being dethroned from their long-held #1 spot, as talk listenership drops until the 2006 midterms, AM listeners drop, and KSL and KNRS are generally dry.

OldAkronite · Oct 3, 2005

Re: Northeast Ohio Checking In

> You're right OA; although I don't necessarily believe that
> KSL got rid of O'Reilly - KFMS perhaps offered a live
> clearance after Mancow and WW1 got excited.

No matter how it happened...for whatever reason, with O'Reilly's absence, KSL decided to go liberal in that slot with Ed Schultz. It's an interesting experiment...the format's most successful solo host on a mostly-conservative talk station in a very conservative part of the country. At least here in Northeast Ohio, there's potential audience for Jerry Springer on WTAM...well, even if he has lost a large chunk of Glenn Beck's audience in his first book.

> By the way, since when do huge heritage stations run so much
> tape-delayed talk?

Got me. I'm surprised more by the fact that KSL has continued to pare down its local talk programming. Middayer Doug Wright is now the ONLY local weekday talk host KSL has! They still do morning and afternoon drive news blocks, but there's Sean Hannity right in the middle of their daytime schedule, live 1-4 PM.

Didn't KSL used to have about three or four weekday local talk shows at some point?

-OA______________
Ohio Media Watch - <a target="_blank" href=http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com>http://ohiomedia.blogspot.com</a>

synco · Oct 3, 2005

Wow! Looks like I hit a nerve! Hahahaha!!!

The truth hurts sometimes. Time to pack up and move on.

> Gee, that's a real original thought. NOT!! Thanks for
> wasting my time to click on your post only to see your
> opinion (that truly sucks) and simple minded comments (the
> same worn-out ones regularly posted here).
>
> > This cracks me up.
> >
> > Does nobody take under consideration that AAR sucks
> (besides
> > for Rhodes) and that AAR is a failed business and radio
> > model?!?
> >
> > Sometimes, it IS that simple.
> >
> > > This has been discussed by many on various boards here
> and
> >
> > > celebrated as failure by those on the right with their
> > > grinding axes.....
> > >
> > > Generally AAR is looking to find a more powerful
> > > affiliate....WHAT was a candle in a sea of
> > > blowtorches....unfortunately the station just didn't
> > > broadcast far enough.
> > >
> > > Hopefully there will be a replacement soon....
> > >
> > > > According to this report Billboard today, AAR has lost
>
> > > it's
> > > > Philadelphia affiliate WHAT. With this lose, the
> liberal
> >
> > > > network has lost about 4% of its potential audience as
>
> > > it's
> > > > national coverage decreases from 57.7 to 55.5. Unless
> > they
> > >
> > > > get another affiliate in Philly, its going to be
> > difficult
> > >
> > > > to replace this coverage.
> > > >
> > > > Air America Off-Air In Philly
> > > > Sep. 30, 2005
> > > > By Chuck Taylor
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Air America has been booted from its noon to 7 p.m.
> > berth
> > > at
> > > > WHAT Philadelphia.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > According to the Philadelphia Daily News, the line-up
> of
> >
> > > Al
> > > > Franken and Randi Rhodes will be replaced with a
> call-in
> >
> > > > show from Daily News columnist Elmer Smith.
> > > >
> > > > Air America is syndicated on 70 radio stations
> > nationwide,
> > >
> > > > and has a channel on XM Satellite Radio.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

synco · Oct 3, 2005

Ok... my points in response:

1.) AAR loses Philly and picks up Chattanooga. How does the overall drop in cume affect this "expansion"? Has anyone in Providence picked them up after being released by WHJJ?

2.) With the exception of 'POJ in Portland, name me one market where AAR, or liberal (oh, sorry... "progressive"... gotta stay away from the "L" word)talk is working effectively... not counting NPR. KPOJ's success with AAR is logical and they've made it work! Good for them!

3.) Few, if any, of the AAR affiliates can actually sell it.

4.) (I won't even bring up the whole stealing from kids debacle)-- Great business plan!

5.) AAR is begging its listeners for money. -- Great business plan!

6.) WLIB, AAR's flagship station is being beaten by carribean music... in NEW YORK!!!

IMHO, The AAR version of talk is becoming a radio farce, which is a shame because I think that Randi Rhodes is truly talented and deserves a stronger vehicle then she currently has through AAR.

> > This cracks me up.
> >
> > Does nobody take under consideration that AAR sucks
> (besides
> > for Rhodes) and that AAR is a failed business and radio
> > model?!?
>
> Yeah, sure... the right wing blogs consider it every day.
> WHAT drops AAR and Chattanooga adds it, and this somehow
> proves it's a failure? As I've always said, the true colors
> come out when people only point out the "failures" while
> ignoring their expanding affiliate base.
>
> It's also amazing that right wing talk shows that get dumped
> from station lineups don't equal "failure" in the minds of
> these people.
>

robmidmi · Oct 3, 2005

No doubt you're impressed with yourself. It would have struck a nerve if you were telling the truth, but that is asking too much of people like you.

> Wow! Looks like I hit a nerve! Hahahaha!!!
>
> The truth hurts sometimes. Time to pack up and move on.
>
> > Gee, that's a real original thought. NOT!! Thanks for
> > wasting my time to click on your post only to see your
> > opinion (that truly sucks) and simple minded comments (the
>
> > same worn-out ones regularly posted here).
> >
> > > This cracks me up.
> > >
> > > Does nobody take under consideration that AAR sucks
> > (besides
> > > for Rhodes) and that AAR is a failed business and radio
> > > model?!?
> > >
> > > Sometimes, it IS that simple.
> > >
> > > > This has been discussed by many on various boards here
>
> > and
> > >
> > > > celebrated as failure by those on the right with their
>
> > > > grinding axes.....
> > > >
> > > > Generally AAR is looking to find a more powerful
> > > > affiliate....WHAT was a candle in a sea of
> > > > blowtorches....unfortunately the station just didn't
> > > > broadcast far enough.
> > > >
> > > > Hopefully there will be a replacement soon....
> > > >
> > > > > According to this report Billboard today, AAR has
> lost
> >
> > > > it's
> > > > > Philadelphia affiliate WHAT. With this lose, the
> > liberal
> > >
> > > > > network has lost about 4% of its potential audience
> as
> >
> > > > it's
> > > > > national coverage decreases from 57.7 to 55.5.
> Unless
> > > they
> > > >
> > > > > get another affiliate in Philly, its going to be
> > > difficult
> > > >
> > > > > to replace this coverage.
> > > > >
> > > > > Air America Off-Air In Philly
> > > > > Sep. 30, 2005
> > > > > By Chuck Taylor
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Air America has been booted from its noon to 7 p.m.
> > > berth
> > > > at
> > > > > WHAT Philadelphia.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > According to the Philadelphia Daily News, the
> line-up
> > of
> > >
> > > > Al
> > > > > Franken and Randi Rhodes will be replaced with a
> > call-in
> > >
> > > > > show from Daily News columnist Elmer Smith.
> > > > >
> > > > > Air America is syndicated on 70 radio stations
> > > nationwide,
> > > >
> > > > > and has a channel on XM Satellite Radio.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

tbetz · Oct 3, 2005

I'll ignore your silly partisan hyperbole and concentrate on the one radio point you raise.

> 2.) With the exception of 'POJ in Portland, name me one
> market where AAR, or liberal (oh, sorry... "progressive"...
> gotta stay away from the "L" word)talk is working
> effectively...

Sure. Look at CC's KKZN. Look at infinity's KPTK. Both examples of taking nothing stations and turning them into something stations.

Are they the kind of successes that KPOJ has proved to be? No, but that kind of quick success -- an eight-fold share increase in a year! -- is rare. KKZN is using the same formula that has proved so successful at KPOJ -- local morning drive and a mix of Jones and AAR libtalk the rest of the day -- and has quadrupled its share in a year. KPTK, lacking anything local in the morning except for traffic reports, has only doubled its share over about nine months.

As more stations adopt the KPOJ model, not trying to get away with local redistribution of satellite feeds, we're going to see more success.

WHJJ's schizophrenic approach to programming -- starting its day with that old reactionary Imus, for crying out loud -- was doomed from the beginning.______________
also known as tombetz.

dampier · Oct 4, 2005

> 1.) AAR loses Philly and picks up Chattanooga. How does
> the overall drop in cume affect this "expansion"? Has
> anyone in Providence picked them up after being released by
> WHJJ?

A not-so-hot signal in Philadelphia on an urban talk station that carried two AAR shows is replaced with a far better heard station in Chattanooga that is going to air many more AAR shows. The bigger point is that we don't hear AAR critics mention the growing affiliate list - when a station drops the network we get the town criers who tell us all about it, but the silence is deafening when new stations get added. Nothing precludes another station in Philadelphia from giving the format a shot either.

I don't limit the success of libtalk just to AAR, which is why I am a big believer in Stephanie Miller, who is also adding stations.

> 2.) With the exception of 'POJ in Portland, name me one
> market where AAR, or liberal (oh, sorry... "progressive"...
> gotta stay away from the "L" word)talk is working
> effectively... not counting NPR. KPOJ's success with AAR is
> logical and they've made it work! Good for them!

WROC-AM here in Rochester seems happy with AAR with stable ratings that could grow if they spent a few bucks advertising it. Youth, essential for libtalk, still doesn't realize there is an AM dial.

> 3.) Few, if any, of the AAR affiliates can actually sell
> it.

Nonsense.

> 4.) (I won't even bring up the whole stealing from kids
> debacle)-- Great business plan!

You won't bring it up and then you did. Synapse break in addition to a flight from factual reality?

> 5.) AAR is begging its listeners for money. -- Great
> business plan!

Talking point and untrue.

> 6.) WLIB, AAR's flagship station is being beaten by
> carribean music... in NEW YORK!!!

Talking point, untrue, and proof that you don't even read the talking points correctly enough to get them right.

> IMHO, The AAR version of talk is becoming a radio farce,
> which is a shame because I think that Randi Rhodes is truly
> talented and deserves a stronger vehicle then she currently
> has through AAR.

This doesn't make any sense either. Randi is quite happy to be a part of a national network. She doesn't agree with every business decision they make, but unlike so many who will defend everything around them to be a loyal soldier, listeners will hear a lot of libtalk hosts be unafraid of putting criticism where it belongs. Oh to hear such things on the other side....

AAR loses Philly

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