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AAR up to 64 stations??
- Thread starter MattNC
- Start date
> I was on the AAR homepage, then upon clicking "refresh" I
> discover the affiliate count has jumped to 64 up from 56.
> Are 8 new stations suddenly jumping onboard?
>
I guess they're tallying up any stations that air any AAR shows - even Springer affiliates.
WTAM/Cleveland and KRPT/San Antonio only carry Springer.
WWWI is listed as Minneapolis, though it's actually farther north, in Brainerd. They carry a mix of liberal and conservative talk. Franken is the only AAR show played there. Ed Schultz, Laura Ingraham, Bill O'Reilly and Michael Savage are also on there, and it's mixed up between AM, FM or both. Franken is only on for an hour on the FM (95.9), though the AM is listed.
The two Boston area stations are each counted, which makes sense, since they cover different parts of town.
KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe affiliate, but it doesn't exist. KKFN/Denver is listed, but is a sports station. KKZN is the AAR affiliate there.
WANR/Youngstown is no longer an affiliate, after a nasty power struggle/takeover by the former GM.
Not sure what's going on with WKZE/Poughkeepsie. New affiliate?
So, that's 8 affiliates there. They should take out KKIT, KKFN and WANR, though. So that's 61.
<P ID="signature">______________
The Liberal Talk Radio Update</P>
> discover the affiliate count has jumped to 64 up from 56.
> Are 8 new stations suddenly jumping onboard?
>
I guess they're tallying up any stations that air any AAR shows - even Springer affiliates.
WTAM/Cleveland and KRPT/San Antonio only carry Springer.
WWWI is listed as Minneapolis, though it's actually farther north, in Brainerd. They carry a mix of liberal and conservative talk. Franken is the only AAR show played there. Ed Schultz, Laura Ingraham, Bill O'Reilly and Michael Savage are also on there, and it's mixed up between AM, FM or both. Franken is only on for an hour on the FM (95.9), though the AM is listed.
The two Boston area stations are each counted, which makes sense, since they cover different parts of town.
KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe affiliate, but it doesn't exist. KKFN/Denver is listed, but is a sports station. KKZN is the AAR affiliate there.
WANR/Youngstown is no longer an affiliate, after a nasty power struggle/takeover by the former GM.
Not sure what's going on with WKZE/Poughkeepsie. New affiliate?
So, that's 8 affiliates there. They should take out KKIT, KKFN and WANR, though. So that's 61.
<P ID="signature">______________
The Liberal Talk Radio Update</P>
P
pdxmitch
Guest
> So, that's 8 affiliates there. They should take out KKIT,
> KKFN and WANR, though. So that's 61.
If a station carries one of a network's shows, is there a word that would better describe the relationship between the station and the network, other than affiliation?
> KKFN and WANR, though. So that's 61.
If a station carries one of a network's shows, is there a word that would better describe the relationship between the station and the network, other than affiliation?
B
bierkenstock
Guest
Air America should stop pretending to be a network (like the TV networks are networks), and admit they are a syndicator. Only WLIB, New York and a few of the smallest, weakest stations take the Air America feed as it comes. Most of their so-called "affiliates" two or three (out of six) dayparts from another source. Even Clear Channel's traditional news-talk stations don't take all their syndication programming from Premiere Radio Networks (the radio syndication company Clear Channel owns, which distributes Rush, among others).
Air America calling itself a "network" is an ego trip (just like Rush talking about the fictional "EIB Network").
NPR calls itself a network but any given station takes a fairly small percentage of NPR programming. Many music stations do not carry ATC and Morning Edition. Most NPR programs do not get carried on most "affiliated" stations. Local non-commercial stations buy individual shows from NPR (and PRI) on an a la carte basis.
However, to answer your question: In the days of old time network radio and early TV, they made a distinction between basic or primary affiliates, and optional or secondary affiliates. Of course, this was when ad agencies bought blocks of time and produced the shows. Basic affiliates were core affiliates in major markets; the stations advertisers usually had to buy. Optional affiliates could be added-on. Usually, optional affiliates only got a program if the advertiser included them in the network buy. Often these optional affiliates received major network programming through a regional network (not directly from NBC, Mutual or CBS), such as Intermountain, Don Lee, Yankee or Michigan. And most optional affiliates or regional networks were available to take programming from more than one national network (especially optional affiliates of both NBC networks).
Similarly, in early TV, most markets had one or two stations, but there were three (or four early on) networks. Most stations would sign up as a primary network for one network (usually CBS or NBC). They would carry the stronger shows in the line-up from the primary network and fill in with stronger shows from one of the secondary networks (ABC or Dumont).
> If a station carries one of a network's shows, is there a
> word that would better describe the relationship between the
> station and the network, other than affiliation?
>
Air America calling itself a "network" is an ego trip (just like Rush talking about the fictional "EIB Network").
NPR calls itself a network but any given station takes a fairly small percentage of NPR programming. Many music stations do not carry ATC and Morning Edition. Most NPR programs do not get carried on most "affiliated" stations. Local non-commercial stations buy individual shows from NPR (and PRI) on an a la carte basis.
However, to answer your question: In the days of old time network radio and early TV, they made a distinction between basic or primary affiliates, and optional or secondary affiliates. Of course, this was when ad agencies bought blocks of time and produced the shows. Basic affiliates were core affiliates in major markets; the stations advertisers usually had to buy. Optional affiliates could be added-on. Usually, optional affiliates only got a program if the advertiser included them in the network buy. Often these optional affiliates received major network programming through a regional network (not directly from NBC, Mutual or CBS), such as Intermountain, Don Lee, Yankee or Michigan. And most optional affiliates or regional networks were available to take programming from more than one national network (especially optional affiliates of both NBC networks).
Similarly, in early TV, most markets had one or two stations, but there were three (or four early on) networks. Most stations would sign up as a primary network for one network (usually CBS or NBC). They would carry the stronger shows in the line-up from the primary network and fill in with stronger shows from one of the secondary networks (ABC or Dumont).
> If a station carries one of a network's shows, is there a
> word that would better describe the relationship between the
> station and the network, other than affiliation?
>
> KKFN/Denver is listed, but is a
> sports station. KKZN is the AAR affiliate there.
I just checked the list and KKZN is correctly listed. There's no "KKFN" on the AAR list.
>
> Not sure what's going on with WKZE/Poughkeepsie. New
> affiliate?
>
WKZE/1020 is licensed to Sharon, CT., about 30 miles from Poughkeepsie. I tuned in a few minutes ago(1:35pm, EDT) and they were playing music, not Al Franken.
> sports station. KKZN is the AAR affiliate there.
I just checked the list and KKZN is correctly listed. There's no "KKFN" on the AAR list.
>
> Not sure what's going on with WKZE/Poughkeepsie. New
> affiliate?
>
WKZE/1020 is licensed to Sharon, CT., about 30 miles from Poughkeepsie. I tuned in a few minutes ago(1:35pm, EDT) and they were playing music, not Al Franken.
> Air America should stop pretending to be a network (like the
> TV networks are networks), and admit they are a syndicator.
> Only WLIB, New York and a few of the smallest, weakest
> stations take the Air America feed as it comes. Most of
> their so-called "affiliates" two or three (out of six)
> dayparts from another source. Even Clear Channel's
> traditional news-talk stations don't take all their
> syndication programming from Premiere Radio Networks (the
> radio syndication company Clear Channel owns, which
> distributes Rush, among others).
>
> Air America calling itself a "network" is an ego trip (just
> like Rush talking about the fictional "EIB Network").
This is not correct. There are several TV networks that only get partial coverage. Both the UPN and WB have dozens of secondary affiliates, that carry only part of the network offerings -- many even one show. This is also true of the big four -- ABC,CBS, NBC, and Fox -- although to a lesser extent.
With the exception of Ed Schultz, the fake Liberal, and local lib talkers, like
Thom Hartmann in Portland and Nancy Skinner in Detroit. The majority of AAR affiliates carry the rest of the network line-up. They even move Randi Rhodes to PM drive to make sure that she's getting carriage. I would say that by any definition that one gives to a radio network (if there is one) AAR meets that definition.
> TV networks are networks), and admit they are a syndicator.
> Only WLIB, New York and a few of the smallest, weakest
> stations take the Air America feed as it comes. Most of
> their so-called "affiliates" two or three (out of six)
> dayparts from another source. Even Clear Channel's
> traditional news-talk stations don't take all their
> syndication programming from Premiere Radio Networks (the
> radio syndication company Clear Channel owns, which
> distributes Rush, among others).
>
> Air America calling itself a "network" is an ego trip (just
> like Rush talking about the fictional "EIB Network").
This is not correct. There are several TV networks that only get partial coverage. Both the UPN and WB have dozens of secondary affiliates, that carry only part of the network offerings -- many even one show. This is also true of the big four -- ABC,CBS, NBC, and Fox -- although to a lesser extent.
With the exception of Ed Schultz, the fake Liberal, and local lib talkers, like
Thom Hartmann in Portland and Nancy Skinner in Detroit. The majority of AAR affiliates carry the rest of the network line-up. They even move Randi Rhodes to PM drive to make sure that she's getting carriage. I would say that by any definition that one gives to a radio network (if there is one) AAR meets that definition.
>
> KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe affiliate,
> but it doesn't exist. KKFN/Denver is listed, but is a
> sports station. KKZN is the AAR affiliate there.
>
How do you know that KKIT doesn't exist? AAR lists KABQ/1350 for Albuquerque and KKIT/1340 for Albuquerque/Santa Fe. Sounds like a simulcast situation to me (on 1340 and 1350).
And either your eyesight is bad or AAR has changed its listings since your post. The list has KKZN for the Denver market, not KKFN.
> KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe affiliate,
> but it doesn't exist. KKFN/Denver is listed, but is a
> sports station. KKZN is the AAR affiliate there.
>
How do you know that KKIT doesn't exist? AAR lists KABQ/1350 for Albuquerque and KKIT/1340 for Albuquerque/Santa Fe. Sounds like a simulcast situation to me (on 1340 and 1350).
And either your eyesight is bad or AAR has changed its listings since your post. The list has KKZN for the Denver market, not KKFN.
>
>
> This is not correct. There are several TV networks that
> only get partial coverage. Both the UPN and WB have dozens
> of secondary affiliates, that carry only part of the network
> offerings -- many even one show. This is also true of the
> big four -- ABC,CBS, NBC, and Fox -- although to a lesser
> extent.
>
When I worked for the CBS Radio Network there were at least several stations that were listed as CBS Radio affiliates, but which carried little or no CBS product except for commercials (which seemed to be all the CBS suits were interested in). I can remember taking in reports from news people at such "affiliates" who said that their pieces would never be heard on their own stations because the "affiliate" didn't clear CBS newscasts.
>
> This is not correct. There are several TV networks that
> only get partial coverage. Both the UPN and WB have dozens
> of secondary affiliates, that carry only part of the network
> offerings -- many even one show. This is also true of the
> big four -- ABC,CBS, NBC, and Fox -- although to a lesser
> extent.
>
When I worked for the CBS Radio Network there were at least several stations that were listed as CBS Radio affiliates, but which carried little or no CBS product except for commercials (which seemed to be all the CBS suits were interested in). I can remember taking in reports from news people at such "affiliates" who said that their pieces would never be heard on their own stations because the "affiliate" didn't clear CBS newscasts.
> >
> > KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe affiliate,
> > but it doesn't exist. KKFN/Denver is listed, but is a
> > sports station. KKZN is the AAR affiliate there.
> >
> How do you know that KKIT doesn't exist? AAR lists
> KABQ/1350 for Albuquerque and KKIT/1340 for
> Albuquerque/Santa Fe. Sounds like a simulcast situation to
> me (on 1340 and 1350).
>
> And either your eyesight is bad or AAR has changed its
> listings since your post. The list has KKZN for the Denver
> market, not KKFN.
>
There are two 1340's in New Mexico. KSSR in Santa Rosa has a multicultural format, and KCQL in Aztec is Fox Sports. No mention of talk, but it's been awhile since I've been to New Mexico, so perhaps things have changed. If so, why is it attributed to Albuquerque/Santa Fe. There is a KKIT-FM located in Angle Fire, NM (located near Taos), nicknamed "The Mountain". But no mention of a talk format on their website. Here's some info about them:
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=kkit&is_unl=Y&is_lic=Y&is_cp=Y&sr=Y&s=C&sid=
And since this morning's post, AAR has corrected the Denver listing. Before, it listed both KKZN and KKFN. Now just KKZN.
A new addition to the AAR affiliate listing (#64, I guess) is in Missoula, MT: KKNS 950. But a station with the KKNS calls is located near Albuquerque. There is a 950 located in Helena, with a standards format, but it's signal doesn't look like it reaches Missoula.
A station that AAR should add is WMAS in Springfield, MA. They air Randi Rhodes, which WHNP, the local AAR affiliate, doesn't.
<P ID="signature">______________
The Liberal Talk Radio Update</P>
> > KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe affiliate,
> > but it doesn't exist. KKFN/Denver is listed, but is a
> > sports station. KKZN is the AAR affiliate there.
> >
> How do you know that KKIT doesn't exist? AAR lists
> KABQ/1350 for Albuquerque and KKIT/1340 for
> Albuquerque/Santa Fe. Sounds like a simulcast situation to
> me (on 1340 and 1350).
>
> And either your eyesight is bad or AAR has changed its
> listings since your post. The list has KKZN for the Denver
> market, not KKFN.
>
There are two 1340's in New Mexico. KSSR in Santa Rosa has a multicultural format, and KCQL in Aztec is Fox Sports. No mention of talk, but it's been awhile since I've been to New Mexico, so perhaps things have changed. If so, why is it attributed to Albuquerque/Santa Fe. There is a KKIT-FM located in Angle Fire, NM (located near Taos), nicknamed "The Mountain". But no mention of a talk format on their website. Here's some info about them:
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=kkit&is_unl=Y&is_lic=Y&is_cp=Y&sr=Y&s=C&sid=
And since this morning's post, AAR has corrected the Denver listing. Before, it listed both KKZN and KKFN. Now just KKZN.
A new addition to the AAR affiliate listing (#64, I guess) is in Missoula, MT: KKNS 950. But a station with the KKNS calls is located near Albuquerque. There is a 950 located in Helena, with a standards format, but it's signal doesn't look like it reaches Missoula.
A station that AAR should add is WMAS in Springfield, MA. They air Randi Rhodes, which WHNP, the local AAR affiliate, doesn't.
<P ID="signature">______________
The Liberal Talk Radio Update</P>
> > >
> > > KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe
> affiliate,
> > > but it doesn't exist.
Just because a station's call letters aren't listed on radio-locator.com doesn't mean that the station "doesn't exist." Radio-locator.com is often way behind changes in call letters, formats, etc.
> > > KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe
> affiliate,
> > > but it doesn't exist.
Just because a station's call letters aren't listed on radio-locator.com doesn't mean that the station "doesn't exist." Radio-locator.com is often way behind changes in call letters, formats, etc.
> > > >
> > > > KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe
> > affiliate,
> > > > but it doesn't exist.
>
> Just because a station's call letters aren't listed on
> radio-locator.com doesn't mean that the station "doesn't
> exist." Radio-locator.com is often way behind changes in
> call letters, formats, etc.
>
Do you have proof that it does?<P ID="signature">______________
The Liberal Talk Radio Update</P>
> > > > KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe
> > affiliate,
> > > > but it doesn't exist.
>
> Just because a station's call letters aren't listed on
> radio-locator.com doesn't mean that the station "doesn't
> exist." Radio-locator.com is often way behind changes in
> call letters, formats, etc.
>
Do you have proof that it does?<P ID="signature">______________
The Liberal Talk Radio Update</P>
> > > > >
> > > > > KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe
> > > affiliate,
> > > > > but it doesn't exist.
> >
> > Just because a station's call letters aren't listed on
> > radio-locator.com doesn't mean that the station "doesn't
> > exist." Radio-locator.com is often way behind changes in
> > call letters, formats, etc.
> >
>
> Do you have proof that it does?
No, but you have no proof that it doesn't exist. And beyond this specific case, I repeat, just because a station isn't listed on radio-locator.com doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. If I had the time, I bet I could find several stations that do exist, but whose call letters haven't been posted on that particular site yet.
>
> > > > > KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe
> > > affiliate,
> > > > > but it doesn't exist.
> >
> > Just because a station's call letters aren't listed on
> > radio-locator.com doesn't mean that the station "doesn't
> > exist." Radio-locator.com is often way behind changes in
> > call letters, formats, etc.
> >
>
> Do you have proof that it does?
No, but you have no proof that it doesn't exist. And beyond this specific case, I repeat, just because a station isn't listed on radio-locator.com doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. If I had the time, I bet I could find several stations that do exist, but whose call letters haven't been posted on that particular site yet.
>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe
> > > > affiliate,
> > > > > > but it doesn't exist.
> > >
> > > Just because a station's call letters aren't listed on
> > > radio-locator.com doesn't mean that the station "doesn't
>
> > > exist." Radio-locator.com is often way behind changes
> in
> > > call letters, formats, etc.
> > >
> >
> > Do you have proof that it does?
>
> No, but you have no proof that it doesn't exist. And beyond
> this specific case, I repeat, just because a station isn't
> listed on radio-locator.com doesn't mean that it doesn't
> exist. If I had the time, I bet I could find several
> stations that do exist, but whose call letters haven't been
> posted on that particular site yet.
> >
>
I do know that RL isn't completely up to date. I'm certainly not claiming them to be the gospel. Not a chance. But I haven't heard of the aforementioned frequencies being added to those particular markets as of yet. I would think that would be something we'd at least heard of from other sources, right?
Why are we arguing about this stuff anyway?<P ID="signature">______________
The Liberal Talk Radio Update</P>
> > > > > > KKIT 1340 is listed as an Albuquerque/Santa Fe
> > > > affiliate,
> > > > > > but it doesn't exist.
> > >
> > > Just because a station's call letters aren't listed on
> > > radio-locator.com doesn't mean that the station "doesn't
>
> > > exist." Radio-locator.com is often way behind changes
> in
> > > call letters, formats, etc.
> > >
> >
> > Do you have proof that it does?
>
> No, but you have no proof that it doesn't exist. And beyond
> this specific case, I repeat, just because a station isn't
> listed on radio-locator.com doesn't mean that it doesn't
> exist. If I had the time, I bet I could find several
> stations that do exist, but whose call letters haven't been
> posted on that particular site yet.
> >
>
I do know that RL isn't completely up to date. I'm certainly not claiming them to be the gospel. Not a chance. But I haven't heard of the aforementioned frequencies being added to those particular markets as of yet. I would think that would be something we'd at least heard of from other sources, right?
Why are we arguing about this stuff anyway?<P ID="signature">______________
The Liberal Talk Radio Update</P>
W
wxctintern
Guest
1020 AM WKZE simulcasts the AAA format from WKZE-FM. Scott Johnson sold the stations a few months ago and that's when the rumors that WKZE AM 1020 was going progessive talk began. WKZE AM 1020 btw is a daytimer.<P ID="signature">______________
~Jay Clark~
</P>
~Jay Clark~
</P>
> I do know that RL isn't completely up to date. I'm
> certainly not claiming them to be the gospel. Not a chance.
> But I haven't heard of the aforementioned frequencies being
> added to those particular markets as of yet. I would think
> that would be something we'd at least heard of from other
> sources, right?
>
> Why are we arguing about this stuff anyway?
I think therefore I am... Descartes
I'm listed on the AAR webpage, therefore I broadcast... anon
> certainly not claiming them to be the gospel. Not a chance.
> But I haven't heard of the aforementioned frequencies being
> added to those particular markets as of yet. I would think
> that would be something we'd at least heard of from other
> sources, right?
>
> Why are we arguing about this stuff anyway?
I think therefore I am... Descartes
I'm listed on the AAR webpage, therefore I broadcast... anon
B
bierkenstock
Guest
Ontology
I feel, therefore I am.... Carl Rogers.
I speak, therefore I am... Martin Heideger
do be do be do... Sinatra
Don't believe everything you read on webpages... me
Figures lie; liars figure... somebody else
People incapable of telling the truth:
Politicians
Lawyers
Anyone in commission sales
Journalists
Anyone in broadcasting not in any previous category
>
> I think therefore I am... Descartes
>
> I'm listed on the AAR webpage, therefore I broadcast... anon
>
I feel, therefore I am.... Carl Rogers.
I speak, therefore I am... Martin Heideger
do be do be do... Sinatra
Don't believe everything you read on webpages... me
Figures lie; liars figure... somebody else
People incapable of telling the truth:
Politicians
Lawyers
Anyone in commission sales
Journalists
Anyone in broadcasting not in any previous category
>
> I think therefore I am... Descartes
>
> I'm listed on the AAR webpage, therefore I broadcast... anon
>
Solving the KKIT/1340 Problem
> There are two 1340's in New Mexico. KSSR in Santa Rosa has
> a multicultural format, and KCQL in Aztec is Fox Sports. No
> mention of talk, but it's been awhile since I've been to New
> Mexico, so perhaps things have changed. If so, why is it
> attributed to Albuquerque/Santa Fe.
KCQL/Aztec is indeed, at least according to their website, an FSR affiliate:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?state=NM&call=&arn=&city=Taos&freq=530&fre2=1700&type=0&facid=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&NS=N&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&EW=W&size=9
-OA
> There are two 1340's in New Mexico. KSSR in Santa Rosa has
> a multicultural format, and KCQL in Aztec is Fox Sports. No
> mention of talk, but it's been awhile since I've been to New
> Mexico, so perhaps things have changed. If so, why is it
> attributed to Albuquerque/Santa Fe.
KCQL/Aztec is indeed, at least according to their website, an FSR affiliate:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?state=NM&call=&arn=&city=Taos&freq=530&fre2=1700&type=0&facid=&list=1&dist=&dlat2=&mlat2=&slat2=&NS=N&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&EW=W&size=9
-OA
K
k9ez
Guest
Re: Ontology
> I feel, therefore I am.... Carl Rogers.
>
> I speak, therefore I am... Martin Heideger
>
> do be do be do... Sinatra
>
> Don't believe everything you read on webpages... me
>
> Figures lie; liars figure... somebody else
>
> People incapable of telling the truth:
> Politicians
> Lawyers
> Anyone in commission sales
> Journalists
> Anyone in broadcasting not in any previous category
>
>
Hey hey now..... us engineers are usually pretty good guys/gals!!! ;-)
> I feel, therefore I am.... Carl Rogers.
>
> I speak, therefore I am... Martin Heideger
>
> do be do be do... Sinatra
>
> Don't believe everything you read on webpages... me
>
> Figures lie; liars figure... somebody else
>
> People incapable of telling the truth:
> Politicians
> Lawyers
> Anyone in commission sales
> Journalists
> Anyone in broadcasting not in any previous category
>
>
Hey hey now..... us engineers are usually pretty good guys/gals!!! ;-)
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