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Abba: The lost factor.

Doesn't this kind of remind you of a similar situation with artist Cliff Richard? He was wildly popular in the UK and several other places, but only a few of his songs got airplay over here. Same case with a Euro-Disco duo called Modern Talking: they were very popular in their native Germany, the USSR and some other Eastern European countries. The key word here is "disco" which likely explains why they are largely unheard of in the US. Also kind of reminds me of soccer (lol.)
Maybe the commonality of soccer is the key factor!

In Latin America, where I have worked in all but two of the Spanish speaking countries, Cliff Richard was much bigger than Elvis. Not that Elvis did not have hits, it's just that Cliff had more. As I have mentioned before, there were lots of popularity differences such as CCR being bigger than the Beatles.
 
This new album has some of the same flaws as their later 70s work: treacly subject matter and a hesitant lyric delivery that sounds like they don't understand what they're singing.

As mentioned above, they are all quite proficient in English.

Americans don't seem to understand that in many parts of the world, and particularly in Europe, knowing a handful of languages is not uncommon.
I suspect you were using the quote from my post as a launch vehicle, and that's fine.

But my original point shouldn't be lost. I'm well aware that the members of ABBA are fluent English speakers. I listed several instances above where ABBA members sound connected to their English lyrics. But at times, including the new Voyage album, they don't sound connected. Whether that's intentional or not is a question. It might be a production issue.

Again, the members of the band Shonen Knife from Japan are also quite fluent in English. They sing in Japanese for their home market and in English for US and international releases. Part of their charm is that they deliberately sing English lyrics as if they are slightly detached from them; as if they might not know the exact meaning of the lyrics even though they do.

Not sure if that's what ABBA is going for.

I'm quite grateful that the language I learned growing up, English, turned out to be an international language of sorts, because I can only fit one language in my head. Perhaps if I'd started younger, my attempts at basic proficiency in French and Portuguese would not have been resounding failures.
 
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In the US, from 2016 to 2018, Logo TV aired Eurovision for the US audience. However, a measly 74,000 viewers tuned in to Logo TV's coverage of Eurovision. Therefore, in 2019, Logo TV canceled their coverage of Eurovision.

I'm glad you mentioned the Eurovision contest! Until about four years ago, I was unaware of this competition. I have since viewed and enjoyed several clips on YouTube. I am currently listening to a 1986 entry called "Dover Calais" from a Swedish group called Style, which leads me to:

All four members of ABBA were fluent in English and chose to sing in that language, primarily, for better universal exposure.

This is NOT a criticism at all, but I guess we can't equate "fluency" with being "accent-free." Yes I could understand every word they sang, but the accents sometimes made the flow of the lyrics a bit choppy. I speak only English so I have GREAT respect for those who have mastered other languages. I say this as I continue my Swedish journey with Duolingo and Rosetta Stone.
 
Maybe the commonality of soccer is the key factor!

In Latin America, where I have worked in all but two of the Spanish speaking countries, Cliff Richard was much bigger than Elvis. Not that Elvis did not have hits, it's just that Cliff had more. As I have mentioned before, there were lots of popularity differences such as CCR being bigger than the Beatles.

This is very interesting to me!

Now that the Internet has made us all global citizens, it's fascinating to learn about things that work in some places and not others. With Sir Cliff's music for example, was he not marketed in the US or did he just not catch on? I know someone earlier mentioned the Elvis connection, but that era was way over at the time I'm talking about, which is when Cliff had that duet with Olivia Newton-John entitled "Suddenly."
 
I'm quite grateful that the language I learned growing up, English, turned out to be an international language of sorts, because I can only fit one language in my head. Perhaps if I'd started younger, my attempts at basic proficiency in French and Portuguese would not have been resounding failures.
Don't silo yourself into that thinking just because your earlier attempts at learning didn't work for you. You are able to learn another language just as you were able to learn English. The defect is in the system, not you.

Educational systems tend to use the method that works most of the time for most people. It does not work for all of us. The systems are counterproductive for some.

As a grade-school student, I was removed from French class with the statement that "... your son is not going to be able to learn a foreign language".

English is now my second language. I get around well in Italy, Brazil, Portugal, Montreal and France, although I am not truly fluent.

So, if you are still interested, try a different system. It's amazing to know another tongue and that knowledge widens horizons. I'll bet anything that if you find the right system, by next year we can chat in Spanish!
 
Always up for a challenge! I'm guessing Bolivia and Paraguay.
I'm currently working on a project to build a national simulcast network with over 70 transmitters in Bolivia (it's, unfortunately, on hold due to the pandemic). I did stand-alone stations as far back as the 70's.

No, it's Cuba and Nicaragua. Been in both, but never employed.
 
Don't silo yourself into that thinking just because your earlier attempts at learning didn't work for you. You are able to learn another language just as you were able to learn English. The defect is in the system, not you.

Educational systems tend to use the method that works most of the time for most people. It does not work for all of us. The systems are counterproductive for some.

As a grade-school student, I was removed from French class with the statement that "... your son is not going to be able to learn a foreign language".

English is now my second language. I get around well in Italy, Brazil, Portugal, Montreal and France, although I am not truly fluent.

So, if you are still interested, try a different system. It's amazing to know another tongue and that knowledge widens horizons. I'll bet anything that if you find the right system, by next year we can chat in Spanish!
My classroom taught me the words and grammar stuff in Spanish claass, listening to the tropical bands made me able to hold a conversation. My classmates wouldn't have been able to find the restroom, I could rent a motel room. Now that's atrophied from lack of use but I can semi-read and identify stations.
 
Now that the Internet has made us all global citizens, it's fascinating to learn about things that work in some places and not others. With Sir Cliff's music for example, was he not marketed in the US or did he just not catch on? I know someone earlier mentioned the Elvis connection, but that era was way over at the time I'm talking about, which is when Cliff had that duet with Olivia Newton-John entitled "Suddenly."
I was not in mainland US radio when he had most of his hits, so I do not know how he was marketed in the US. And, with the closer connection between the UK and Canada, did he get more exposure via promotion and airplay there than in the US?

I guess we have to remember that the Beatles' label in the UK did not want to release them in the US initially. Making decisions about moving an artist to new countries was hard, then. Adding a "foreign" artist to the roster meant putting time and money to work to promote them, and it meant taking time and money away from local artists that they knew and cared about. Animals will first protect their own.
 
My classroom taught me the words and grammar stuff in Spanish claass, listening to the tropical bands made me able to hold a conversation. My classmates wouldn't have been able to find the restroom, I could rent a motel room. Now that's atrophied from lack of use but I can semi-read and identify stations.
I learned Spanish from the radio. Every night in Cleveland, I'd tape HJED in Cali, Colombia on 820 AM and that next evening, while doing homework, would listen to the overnight show. I did not use a dictionary; I learned like a baby does by repetition and context. I guess they call that "immersion" or something like that.
 
Why weren't they bigger in the U.S.? Biggest thing was image, I think. Not a bad image, just out of step with what was hip in the U.S. at the time. I heard one jock introduce them on-air as "The Swedish Carpenters."
I think you hit the nail on the head. Disco and rock were what was happening in the U.S. in the mid-late 70s (not appealing to the same audience of course), most pop for whatever reason was kind of uncool. Not that Abba was any less corporate-sounding than Bad Company, Journey or Kansas, but they for whatever reason were perceived that way. I see very little similarity between them and the Carpenters.
 
T With Sir Cliff's music for example, was he not marketed in the US or did he just not catch on?
At least some of his singles were released here as far back as the late 50s, but I don't recall much of any promotional push behind them. The station I worked at in 1968 played a song of his called "Congratulations", but it was a stiff, peaking at #99 in Billboard. He did have several charters in the early-ish 60s, including a couple that made the top 40, none of which are familiar to me.
 
This is very interesting to me!

Now that the Internet has made us all global citizens, it's fascinating to learn about things that work in some places and not others. With Sir Cliff's music for example, was he not marketed in the US or did he just not catch on? I know someone earlier mentioned the Elvis connection, but that era was way over at the time I'm talking about, which is when Cliff had that duet with Olivia Newton-John entitled "Suddenly."
Cliff must have had some promotion in the U.S.---he actually made #30 in 1959 with "Living Doll", which I'd describe more as like half of the Everly Brothers than an Elvis clone. Here's the link:


And he managed to hit #25 with a cover of "It's All In The Game" in 1962:


But it was non-charters and stiffs ranging from #92-#99 on the Hot 100 for 14 years after that until "Devil Woman" hit #6 here. This record I'm old enough to remember, and being in programming at the time, I remember the circumstances.

While it was released on EMI in the UK, Elton John's Rocket Records label got the U.S. distribution rights, and Rocket/MCA put some significant effort into trade advertising. Still, even with a #6 hit in his pocket, the next ten singles either didn't chart or stiffed, with the best-performing of the two that charted stalling at #57.

It was three years between "Devil Woman" and "We Don't Talk Anymore", which made #7. "Dreamin'" hit #10, and the duet with Olivia, "Suddenly", was actually a disappointment, peaking at #20.
 
Cliff must have had some promotion in the U.S.---he actually made #30 in 1959 with "Living Doll", which I'd describe more as like half of the Everly Brothers than an Elvis clone.

Cliff's US label during the 60s was Columbia. Their head of A&R was Mitch Miller. That should tell you a lot. Columbia also had Aretha Franklin in its stable before she had success with Respect on Atlantic. They completely missed her talent. The same could be said with Richard. It took Clive Davis to actually get Columbia into the modern era, but that didn't happen until 1966. Too late to help Cliff.
 
At least some of his singles were released here as far back as the late 50s, but I don't recall much of any promotional push behind them. The station I worked at in 1968 played a song of his called "Congratulations", but it was a stiff, peaking at #99 in Billboard. He did have several charters in the early-ish 60s, including a couple that made the top 40, none of which are familiar to me.
I remember hearing "Congratulations" on the BBC World Service's "Top 20" program via shortwave. It was pure MOR, albeit uptempo. It sounded like something Andy Williams might have wanted to record.
 
Cliff's US label during the 60s was Columbia. Their head of A&R was Mitch Miller. That should tell you a lot. Columbia also had Aretha Franklin in its stable before she had success with Respect on Atlantic.
Mitch Miller was trying to shape the career of Aretha Franklin? That's one of the scariest "what ifs" I've ever seen on these boards.
 
I'm quite grateful that the language I learned growing up, English, turned out to be an international language of sorts, because I can only fit one language in my head. Perhaps if I'd started younger, my attempts at basic proficiency in French and Portuguese would not have been resounding failures.
I speak only English so I have GREAT respect for those who have mastered other languages.
I'm a firm believer that some people have a natural gift for being able to learn and speak other languages and they catch on rather quickly, while some of us have a much more difficult time. I have a few friends who were born and raised near the Mediterranean Sea, and it's relatively common there for people to know multiple languages and be able to interchange them... Spanish, French and Italian roll off their tongues pretty readily. In Scandanavian countries, in some cases they may not be able to speak the language of a nearby country, but they can usually understand most words and gather enough of what's being said to understand what's being said to them.

Like @gr8oldies, I learned fundamentals of Spanish in school as we had to take 2 years of a foreign language and could choose Spanish, French or Latin...But they didn't really teach conversational Spanish so I came away not being able to speak much aside from the alphabet, days of the week, months of the year and some descriptive words. I've tried Rosetta Stone, Duo Lingo and the like and do OK, but I don't really have the time to immerse myself in learning and once one doesn't use it for a while, you tend to lose it.
 
Mitch Miller was trying to shape the career of Aretha Franklin? That's one of the scariest "what ifs" I've ever seen on these boards.

They actually paired her with John Hammond, which wasn't too bad. But he saw her as more of a jazz singer, in the Sarah Vaughn mold. So they had her sing some standards. She was there from 1960 to 66. Three Top 10s, all R&B. Then she signed with Atlantic, released Respect, and she never slowed down.
 
I'm a firm believer that some people have a natural gift for being able to learn and speak other languages and they catch on rather quickly, while some of us have a much more difficult time. I have a few friends who were born and raised near the Mediterranean Sea, and it's relatively common there for people to know multiple languages and be able to interchange them... Spanish, French and Italian roll off their tongues pretty readily. In Scandanavian countries, in some cases they may not be able to speak the language of a nearby country, but they can usually understand most words and gather enough of what's being said to understand what's being said to them.

Like @gr8oldies, I learned fundamentals of Spanish in school as we had to take 2 years of a foreign language and could choose Spanish, French or Latin...But they didn't really teach conversational Spanish so I came away not being able to speak much aside from the alphabet, days of the week, months of the year and some descriptive words. I've tried Rosetta Stone, Duo Lingo and the like and do OK, but I don't really have the time to immerse myself in learning and once one doesn't use it for a while, you tend to lose it.
I believe our choices were Spanish, German and Latin. French had been discontinued and since it was a heavily, if not predominant, German area, German was on the menu (my classmates spoke English and though some of their grandparents still spoke German at home, that wasn't passed down.). I was told by my guidance counselor that I shouldn't try Spanish but I did. I was the only one in my class who could hold conversations with actual sentences with our exchange student. Thank you Ecos del Torbes, Radio Barquisimeto and several others
 
I believe our choices were Spanish, German and Latin. French had been discontinued and since it was a heavily, if not predominant, German area, German was on the menu (my classmates spoke English and though some of their grandparents still spoke German at home, that wasn't passed down.). I was told by my guidance counselor that I shouldn't try Spanish but I did. I was the only one in my class who could hold conversations with actual sentences with our exchange student. Thank you Ecos del Torbes, Radio Barquisimeto and several others
I think radio helped many with languages. Every so often my mother would allow me to call XEB-1220 in Mexico City, "La B Grande de México", and request a song. The overnight announcer recognized me after the second or third call, and would put me on the air and joke about a listener who was 3,000 kilometers away. He also knew the songs I liked and would sometimes even ask which of them I wanted to hear!

That made listening and learning fun... and prepared me for doing an internship at another station group in Mexico City three or four years later.
 
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