Abba: The lost factor.

[Mediafrog+]

Not really. Like the French in the motherland, they believe their culture is superior and that English is vulgar. Speaking English is to step down.

Francophone attitudes in Quebec can almost amount to fanatical chauvinism, and Anglophones there are often treated with hostility and bigotry. Of course all this goes back more than 250 years to the British defeat of France in that province. Francophones resentment of that historical outcome and obsession with the ”lost cause” is unfortunately similar to the resentment of many U.S. southerners and their disdain for “Yankees.”

There are also religious differences at work; Quebec is overwhelmingly Catholic while English speaking Canada is mostly Protestant.

Quebec is also rather hypocritical for wanting to go its own way, while living off the financial gravy train from Ottawa. People in other provinces (Alberta in particular) are resentful that their tax dollars are used (through the provincial “transfer payments” system) to prop up Quebec.

 

[Mediafrog+]

In Ecuador, I had quite a few bilingual staff members... they spoke both Spanish and Quechua. Even in what may be the poorest nation of the world, Haiti, folks speak both Kreyol and French.

Both examples are much smaller geographic areas where the two languages have long been intermixed, thus people have ample exposure to both.

Movies in India are often produced in multiple languages, and many people at all levels speak English and one of the major Indian languages.

However only about 10 to 15 percent of people in India speak English, and they tend to have better social positions, educations and incomes.

On one island in the Caribbean, half the territory speaks Dutch and half speak French, but everyone knows both, irrespective of their education and income.

Once again a small geographic area which allows an easy intermixing of languages.

Not arguing, but still sticking to the belief that the large geographic area of the U.S., as well as relative geographic isolation unfortunately works against multilingualism.

 

[installLSC]

Compared to American and British acts, Abba did relatively poorly on the American charts. Compared to other acts outside the Anglosphere they were hugely popular. According to my Top Pop Singles (96 edition), the only acts outside of English-speaking countries that make the overall Top 200 acts are ABBA and Celine Dion. In the Top Albums book (2009 edition) only Dion and Andrea Bocelli make the Top 200 acts. Plus ABBA only made 13 concert appearances in the U.S., all in 1979, in an age when tours were a vital way to get noticed. They were probably the first act to rely mostly on music videos to promote their records. No big problem internationally, where there were plenty of music video shows. But pre-MTV, a big flaw in promoting your records in the U.S.

 

[RadioFan2J3]

. They all probably had more trouble understanding Southern. 😁

I once had to "translate" between my purchasing agent's Arabic accented English and a customer service representative's Su'thurn, who was in Spartanburg, SC.

 

[davideduardo]

I once had to "translate" between my purchasing agent's Arabic accented English and a customer service representative's Su'thurn, who was in Spartanburg, SC.

When I was transferred to Birmingham's WERC from WUNO, I had a lot of trouble understanding a lot of the people. I could deal with Virgin Islands English, Windward Islands English (Trinidad, Barbados, etc.) and Jamaican English, but real deep southern English was very much more difficult.

 

[boombox4]

"Need" is a byproduct of two centuries of American imperialism in its treatment of other nations. That has produced enormous hatred and resentment, which the Chinese are using to be "your friend in need" today while economically taking over Latin America and much of Africa.

The image of the "Ugly American" is robust. One of the characteristics is not speaking local languages. In broadcasting, U.S. TV equipment makers almost totally lost the Latin American market because the US companies did not even have manuals in Spanish or Portuguese. The Asian manufacturers did, and had phone support in those languages.

Today, nearly no US gear is sold in radio, either. The only North American company with good sales is Canadian, because those folks are used to multiple languages and have adapted.

Point taken, but my point was that here, inside the US, one doesn't need to know another language to carry on in commerce, especially since the Immigration Act of 1990 allowed so many people here from other areas of the world -- many of whom knew little English, or Spanish, for that matter, when they first arrived here. I taught Ukrainians and Russians English, and it was a challenge, even though I know a few phrases of those languages.

English is the language that the Ethiopian guy who runs the store I go to, and I, have to communicate with each other. It's the only language the Sri Lankan guy who runs the local car shop and I can use to communicate with each other. The Salvadorans in the restaurant next to my place of work speak Spanish and English. The English is because more than half of their customers are either English-speaking Caucasians, or English speaking Ethiopians, English-speaking Somalis, English speaking Chinese, or English speaking Punjabis. When you have a wide mix of ethnicities in a relatively compact area, English is the only communication tool that can be used. And this reinforces the practice of English being the only language needed in commerce.

In 1950, the English only thing was due to conceit perhaps. In 2021, it's because of all the people who have moved here from other places. In my local school district, 80 languages are spoken by students. The only communication tool they have in common is the English one.

The negative obviously is that Americans going overseas are dependent on people in those countries who speak English, and that lack of foreign language knowledge portrays the 'Ugly American', as you've pointed out.

 

[landtuna]

The negative obviously is that Americans going overseas are dependent on people in those countries who speak English, and that lack of foreign language knowledge portrays the 'Ugly American', as you've pointed out.

The "ugly American" was based much more on (rude) behavior (of the tourist American) than just pure language. It was the expectation that the American tourist would treat the natives just like he/she would expect another American to act in the USA. That included the "why doesn't the native speak English?"

The only country where I have been treated like the "ugly American" is France (including the French embassy in Germany). Virtually every other country has treated me with consideration (for not understanding their language or customs) and friendliness. In Japan, for instance, little school children would gather around me like ants around the sugar pile wanting to try out their English skills.

 

[Mikey Radio]

The "ugly American" was based much more on (rude) behavior (of the tourist American) than just pure language. It was the expectation that the American tourist would treat the natives just like he/she would expect another American to act in the USA. That included the "why doesn't the native speak English?"

The only country where I have been treated like the "ugly American" is France (including the French embassy in Germany). Virtually every other country has treated me with consideration (for not understanding their language or customs) and friendliness. In Japan, for instance, little school children would gather around me like ants around the sugar pile wanting to try out their English skills.

Americans also have a really bad knack of going to other countries and being at least a bit vocal when it's not as nice or not as good in their opinions as the USA. I was in a Scandinavian country a few years ago for work and they put us up in a 4 star hotel. It was centrally located in the city and had attentive staff, an excellent restaurant and a solid bar with a discoteque in the back on weekends. All staff spoke fluent English to boot. Some of the furnishings in the hotel rooms were hand crafted and the place wasn't necessarily luxurious, and the Americans proclaimed that this hotel would NEVER be a 4 star property at home. There was also an amusement park nearby with characters that were known throughout their country, sold in toy and souvenir shops, etc. A few people went and expressed disappointment that it was nothing compared to US-based theme parks.

You also see it on HGTV all the time when Americans go to Mexico or Europe to buy a place and when they walk into a home that reeks of local flavor and is perfectly in-line with local design and decor, they're unhappy. Show them a place with a kitchen that features dark wood cabinets, stainless appliances, a tile backsplash and looks like it could be right at home in anytown, USA and they're highly complimentary.

Makes you wonder why some Americans travel abroad if they're just going to be disappointed because it's "not like home". I kinda thought that was the point of traveling internationally?

 

[Cordelia Chase]

I once had to "translate" between my purchasing agent's Arabic accented English and a customer service representative's Su'thurn, who was in Spartanburg, SC.

This brings me back to the topic of ABBA's popularity, or lack thereof, in the southern US. Absolutely NO hate, but IMHO, their (European) accent-tinged vocals didn't fit in with other groups that were popular in the late '70s early '80s like Eagles, Bob Seger, Lynard Skynard, Allman Brothers as well as the country crossovers popularized by the movie "Urban Cowboy." Again, no hate, but one can see how ABBA might have had a tough time fitting in...

 

[vchimpanzee]

My sister-in-law has a home near Rosarito in Baja California, but has not been there since the pandemic started as Baja has the highest incidence of COVID cases of any state in Mexico.

I don't know why my aunt moved to Baja. I hadn't heard from her in years when my cousin told us she had been in a nursing home pretty much cut off from the world for a year,

 

[firepoint525]

This brings me back to the topic of ABBA's popularity, or lack thereof, in the southern US. Absolutely NO hate, but IMHO, their (European) accent-tinged vocals didn't fit in with other groups that were popular in the late '70s early '80s like Eagles, Bob Seger, Lynard Skynard, Allman Brothers as well as the country crossovers popularized by the movie "Urban Cowboy." Again, no hate, but one can see how ABBA might have had a tough time fitting in...

I couldn't see a movie like Abba, the Movie, ever being filmed here. Their popularity just never rose to that level here. They supposedly weren't even going to play the U.S. until they had a #1 hit here. But I don't know if they played here after "Dancing Queen" hit, or not.

 

[Mikey Radio]

I couldn't see a movie like Abba, the Movie, ever being filmed here. Their popularity just never rose to that level here. They supposedly weren't even going to play the U.S. until they had a #1 hit here. But I don't know if they played here after "Dancing Queen" hit, or not.

Keep in mind that there have already been a few movies featuring the music of ABBA. There was "Mamma Mia" that was released in 2008 and had a fairly impressive cast, including Meryl Streep Pierce Brosnan, Christine Baranski, Colin Firth and a few other notable names. The biggest issue was that they seemed to go for well-known names, but a number of those featured, most notably Pierce Brosnan, couldn't sing well. His singing was critically panned and he himself said he cringed when he heard himself signing in the movie. Regardless, the movie made $600 million vs. a $50 million budget (about $145M came from US audiences) so it did well enough.

There was a prequel/sequel released in 2018 called "Mama Mia - Here We Go Again" It also featured the music of ABBA, many of the same ensemble cast and it made $400M on a budget of $75M. $120M of that was made in the USA and Canada.

 

[landtuna]

This brings me back to the topic of ABBA's popularity, or lack thereof, in the southern US. Absolutely NO hate, but IMHO, their (European) accent-tinged vocals didn't fit in with other groups that were popular in the late '70s early '80s like Eagles, Bob Seger, Lynard Skynard, Allman Brothers as well as the country crossovers popularized by the movie "Urban Cowboy." Again, no hate, but one can see how ABBA might have had a tough time fitting in...

What band were you listening to? ABBA had no accent.

 

[firepoint525]

Keep in mind that there have already been a few movies featuring the music of ABBA. There was "Mamma Mia" that was released in 2008 and had a fairly impressive cast, including Meryl Streep Pierce Brosnan, Christine Baranski, Colin Firth and a few other notable names. The biggest issue was that they seemed to go for well-known names, but a number of those featured, most notably Pierce Brosnan, couldn't sing well. His singing was critically panned and he himself said he cringed when he heard himself signing in the movie. Regardless, the movie made $600 million vs. a $50 million budget (about $145M came from US audiences) so it did well enough.

There was a prequel/sequel released in 2018 called "Mama Mia - Here We Go Again" It also featured the music of ABBA, many of the same ensemble cast and it made $400M on a budget of $75M. $120M of that was made in the USA and Canada.

Not quite. The guy in Abba, the Movie was a journalist trying to get an interview with them, and they moved so fast that he just never quite could catch them. They never had that level of popularity here. What you are referring to is different. Sure, there have been musicals and movies featuring their music, but Abba the Movie was considered their version of A Hard Day's Night, and they just never reached that level of popularity here. I'm not even sure if they ever even toured here. So a movie like that doesn't really resonate with American audiences. Clever movie, but it just couldn't have happened like that here.

 

[kevtronics]

When I was transferred to Birmingham's WERC from WUNO, I had a lot of trouble understanding a lot of the people. I could deal with Virgin Islands English, Windward Islands English (Trinidad, Barbados, etc.) and Jamaican English, but real deep southern English was very much more difficult.

This is rather off-topic, but I've always wondered if two non-native English speakers talking in heavily (but equally) accented English understand each other better than they would understand a "proper" speaker of English?

 

[vchimpanzee]

Frida is 76 today.

 

[FeralFerret]

Enjoyed ABBA, but not one of my favorites. They were for lack of a better term, inoffensive.

The year of Spanish I took in high school was pretty much worthless. I have picked up more useful Spanish in the many years since then than I did in school. I do know two of the most important things in Spanish, How to order a beer and how to ask where the bathroom is located. If you know the first you had better know the last, just saying.

 

[seatownmedia]

I seriously think Abba was bigger in places like Seattle, Portland and Minneapolis due to the Scandinavian influence.

 

[Cordelia Chase]

What band were you listening to? ABBA had no accent.

No hate for ABBA or for those here who disagree with me, but there are times when I detect a choppiness, or perhaps it's overenunciation, that makes ABBA's lyrical flow seem off or unnatural (to me.)

Another example that comes to mind is the song "In 100 Years" by the German duo Modern Talking. They sing "in hundred years," not A hundred or ONE hundred, simply hundred. Of course I know what it means and it is a great song, but that definitely makes the lyrics sound like they were written by a non-native speaker of English, which they were.

 

[Marcos_C]

This week, Voyage, ABBA's new studio album, is number one in several European countries and in Australia. In the UK, the album outsold the next 35 albums combined.

Chart Performance for Voyage

Here in the US, Voyage entered the Billboard 200 at number two, by far their best performance on that chart.

The artist who stopped ABBA from going to the top is an R&B artist named Summer Walker, with Still Over It.