• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

About the new TV Guide (long post)

P

Phillyradiogeek

Guest
I've always read with interest the comments made about the many changes to TV Guide these last few years. That's because up until two months ago, I was an employee of TV Guide. I was also a lifelong lover and customer of the Guide, having grown up with it in my household all my life. Even as a youg child I read every issue with great love and interest, as I'm sure many of you have. So I know full well what it's like on both sides.

That probably explains why I read the negative comments of posters which mixed emotions. From a customer standpoint I sympathized with the negative reaction as changes were made that led to a different product that, with each passing year, made the Guide a warped image of its former self. On the other hand, I constantly heard about decreasing circulation (which, in all truthfullness, started long before the intense tinkering of the format) and difficulty in generating revenue from corporate sources. Less revenue, coupled with rising costs, leads to drastic choices and risks. The Guide we knew and loved was no longer successful, so the only path that could be taken, or so decision makers believed rightly or wrongly, was to make changes to keep it alive. Whether these changes were helpful aesthetically is up to each individual reader, but economically things didn't change for the better. The Fall 2003 relaunch of the digest was the last bold attempt to keep the magazine alive. In the first few months things looked bright, but the homeymoon period fell short soon enough. It was that failure that most likely led management to thoughts of the current format.

I was never privy to any research or hard figures, but I'm not surprised that the old format failed as well as the attempts to save it. Anecdotally, among my friends not associated with the guide, very few ever gave the magazine a second thought (including my own wife). "Why should I buy the Guide when I can get the listings from the paper," or "I have the interactive guide, why use the magazine" were common responses to my queries about their impressions of the Guide. The mag has always had its ardent fans (like myself), but the truth is a surprising plurality, if not a majority, of people coulnd't care less about the Guide no what what format it had. How much can you do to change that?

What rarely gets mentioned about the changes all these years is the dedicated people (my former colleagues) who have lost jobs in all this mess. Not a year went by without a layoff announcement. The past year has been especially harsh. I would have been a victim myself had I not been fortunate enough to find a new opportunity right after the latest round of job cuts.

While I regret the loss of the Guide as we knew and loved it, I wish the new format well, even if I hold reservations about its chance for success. No one I've talked to holds out hope, but only time will prove who's right. All I can ask is that you keep in mind those who lost their jobs, the realities of the marketplace, and ,just maybe, give the new magazine a try.

Thanks!
 
> I've always read with interest the comments made about the
> many changes to TV Guide these last few years. That's
> because up until two months ago, I was an employee of TV
> Guide. I was also a lifelong lover and customer of the
> Guide, having grown up with it in my household all my life.
> Even as a youg child I read every issue with great love and
> interest, as I'm sure many of you have. So I know full well
> what it's like on both sides.
>
> That probably explains why I read the negative comments
> of posters which mixed emotions. From a customer standpoint
> I sympathized with the negative reaction as changes were
> made that led to a different product that, with each passing
> year, made the Guide a warped image of its former self. On
> the other hand, I constantly heard about decreasing
> circulation (which, in all truthfullness, started long
> before the intense tinkering of the format) and difficulty
> in generating revenue from corporate sources. Less revenue,
> coupled with rising costs, leads to drastic choices and
> risks. The Guide we knew and loved was no longer
> successful, so the only path that could be taken, or so
> decision makers believed rightly or wrongly, was to make
> changes to keep it alive. Whether these changes were
> helpful aesthetically is up to each individual reader, but
> economically things didn't change for the better. The Fall
> 2003 relaunch of the digest was the last bold attempt to
> keep the magazine alive. In the first few months things
> looked bright, but the homeymoon period fell short soon
> enough. It was that failure that most likely led management
> to thoughts of the current format.
>
> I was never privy to any research or hard figures, but
> I'm not surprised that the old format failed as well as the
> attempts to save it. Anecdotally, among my friends not
> associated with the guide, very few ever gave the magazine a
> second thought (including my own wife). "Why should I buy
> the Guide when I can get the listings from the paper," or "I
> have the interactive guide, why use the magazine" were
> common responses to my queries about their impressions of
> the Guide. The mag has always had its ardent fans (like
> myself), but the truth is a surprising plurality, if not a
> majority, of people coulnd't care less about the Guide no
> what what format it had. How much can you do to change
> that?
>
> What rarely gets mentioned about the changes all these
> years is the dedicated people (my former colleagues) who
> have lost jobs in all this mess. Not a year went by without
> a layoff announcement. The past year has been especially
> harsh. I would have been a victim myself had I not been
> fortunate enough to find a new opportunity right after the
> latest round of job cuts.
>
> While I regret the loss of the Guide as we knew and
> loved it, I wish the new format well, even if I hold
> reservations about its chance for success. No one I've
> talked to holds out hope, but only time will prove who's
> right. All I can ask is that you keep in mind those who
> lost their jobs, the realities of the marketplace, and ,just
> maybe, give the new magazine a try.
>
> Thanks!
>
As someone who was there up until a few years ago before moving on, I second your comments--well said. The day I heard about the announcement of dropping the local listings, I figured I knew which department would be hit the hardest, and thought of the people I knew there who may well have been out of a job.

I know how that feels--I heard the layoff announcement myself, so I know the emotions.
 
I think dropping localized listings may be the final death knell for TV Guide.

If they had continued to include localized listings in their new look (full-color listings and a bigger page size), they might have a chance to survive.

TV Guide also should again start doing the kind of articles about behind-the-scenes in television that they did so well for so many decades. Combining that with local listings, and I think they'll be around for the long term.

Otherwise, TV Guide may well cease to exist in about a year (likely with the 2006 Fall Preview being their last issue).

And as far as newspapers: Fewer and fewer of them have much in the way of TV listings.

Here in Boston, the Herald years ago ceased to run daily TV listings outside of prime-time. They did have a full-fledged Sunday TV supplement, but that was discontinued this past June.

And the Boston Globe recently eliminated daytime and late-night TV listings from their daily editions. They still publish a Sunday TV supplement, but it's anybody's guess as to how long they will continue to do so. It may not be long until that too gets discontinued.
 
> I think dropping localized listings may be the final death
> knell for TV Guide.
>
> If they had continued to include localized listings in their
> new look (full-color listings and a bigger page size), they
> might have a chance to survive.
>
> TV Guide also should again start doing the kind of articles
> about behind-the-scenes in television that they did so well
> for so many decades. Combining that with local listings, and
> I think they'll be around for the long term.

Local listings are a relic of the past. With satellite and digital cable approaching the 50% mark, there's no reason the majority of customers will use local listings when an interactive guide is available.
 
> And as far as newspapers: Fewer and fewer of them have much
> in the way of TV listings.

The Dallas Morning News and Houston Chronicle have excellent Sunday TV magazines. The DMN even has...brace yourself...24-hour listings!
 
> Local listings are a relic of the past. With satellite and
> digital cable approaching the 50% mark, there's no reason
> the majority of customers will use local listings when an
> interactive guide is available.

A printed paper grid can still be more convenient -- for one thing, it allows me to verify what is on *before* I bother to turn the TV on. Also, much more information can fit on a single printed page than can fit on a TV screen, which means much less scrolling about to find what you're looking for.

Yes, there are also advantages associated with Internet or cable/satellite interactive listings, such as the ability to search on a title or performer's name. The bottom line is that they may both be able to coexist.
 
> If they had continued to include localized listings in their
> new look (full-color listings and a bigger page size), they
> might have a chance to survive.
>
> TV Guide also should again start doing the kind of articles
> about behind-the-scenes in television that they did so well
> for so many decades. Combining that with local listings, and
> I think they'll be around for the long term.

TV Guide tested a larger edition that still had local listings in 1991 in some cities, including Nashville. I'm not sure what other cities had it, but it didn't last long.
 
> > And as far as newspapers: Fewer and fewer of them have
> much
> > in the way of TV listings.
>
> The Dallas Morning News and Houston Chronicle have excellent
> Sunday TV magazines. The DMN even has...brace
> yourself...24-hour listings!
>

The Memphis Commercial Appeal improved their listings in the last few months, actually before the changes in TV Guide were announced. It's almost like someone in the CA had advance knowledge of what was going to happen.
 
Tom Desmond commented:

> A printed paper grid can still be more convenient -- for one
> thing, it allows me to verify what is on *before* I bother
> to turn the TV on. Also, much more information can fit on a
> single printed page than can fit on a TV screen, which means
> much less scrolling about to find what you're looking for.
>
> Yes, there are also advantages associated with Internet or
> cable/satellite interactive listings, such as the ability to
> search on a title or performer's name. The bottom line is
> that they may both be able to coexist.

I would have to agree with Tom 100% on this one. I sometimes find it easier to use a printed listing than an on-screen guide.
 
> Tom Desmond commented:
>
> > A printed paper grid can still be more convenient -- for
> one
> > thing, it allows me to verify what is on *before* I bother
>
> > to turn the TV on. Also, much more information can fit on
> a
> > single printed page than can fit on a TV screen, which
> means
> > much less scrolling about to find what you're looking for.
>
> >
> > Yes, there are also advantages associated with Internet or
>
> > cable/satellite interactive listings, such as the ability
> to
> > search on a title or performer's name. The bottom line is
>
> > that they may both be able to coexist.
>
> I would have to agree with Tom 100% on this one. I sometimes
> find it easier to use a printed listing than an on-screen
> guide.

It is easier but why would TV Guide partly owned by Newscorp, want to make it EASIER for people to find the competition's shows?

I don't buy that local TV listings are THAT costly to reproduce with computerization. Even with 140 editions, proper databases and computers make this a simple matter of programming, even a first year programmer could write.

Unless the profit margina are razor thin. Then I would need to do a cost anyalysis and I can almost guarantee you money is being diverted somewhere to another inappropriate forum.

Time after time when I've done studies for companies I find the executives "make" a decision then bring people into justify it, and they will keep hiring people till they get that justification.

For instance reading over the TV Guide corp site I constantly hear that the small size was a major liability for the magazine. WHY? I have yet to hear an explination from NewsCorp for that.

I think it's ironic that TV guides estimates the new magazine will sell 3-3.5 million copies, while the old guide was around 8.5-9 million copies. (Still a far cry from the peak in the late 70s of 20 million copies).

Yet somehow a loss of 2/3 of it's readership is acceptable? They are launching a new format and expect to lose 2/3 of its current readership? No wonder they are laying people off.

Kaufman Bros., analyst for TV guide fail to mention the trouble with the SEC (thru Gemstar.)

This cost over 10 million in fines. Small pittance to a corporation but A LOT to the guy who posted and got laid off.

Gemstar is focusing on the fact TV guide still will make money from VCR plus.
But I own a VCR with VCR+ yet when I had cable VCR plus was useless due to the fact all but the over-the-air signals were scrambled and thus I had to use Channel 4 on my set and the cable box for everything else? This was thru Comcast a huge cable company, so if it effect me how many others?

Murdoch, I believe owns 40% of TV Guide it simply looks like he doesn't want to ut in any money to save the old format, he seems to be willing to bleed the remaing money from a company then fold it.
 
The Rochester (NY) D & C has only prime time TV listing but a suplement on Sunday that has complete listings. When TV Guide was in its prime I thought the newspaper guide was a joke and threw it out. Now I don't think it's funny anymore and keep it around but it still not any better than it was.

Rochester was, also, a test market for the larger size TV Guide in the 90's.
I liked it. Thought it worked well. I think I have kept a couple editions around. My understanding is that it failed because supermarkets & newstands had to find room for it on their shelves. The smaller size edition already had a custom size placement. So I don't know what they are going to do with this turkey they are putting out now.
 
> The Rochester (NY) D & C has only prime time TV listing but
> a suplement on Sunday that has complete listings. When TV
> Guide was in its prime I thought the newspaper guide was a
> joke and threw it out. Now I don't think it's funny anymore
> and keep it around but it still not any better than it was.
>
> Rochester was, also, a test market for the larger size TV
> Guide in the 90's.
> I liked it. Thought it worked well. I think I have kept a
> couple editions around. My understanding is that it failed
> because supermarkets & newstands had to find room for it on
> their shelves. The smaller size edition already had a
> custom size placement. So I don't know what they are going
> to do with this turkey they are putting out now.
>

I know that in the Jackson, TN area that no stores I went in had the new edition except for Wal Mart, probably of the very fact you mentioned in there being no space for it in the new size. Wal Mart probably put in in place of one of the tabloids or women's magazines, but only on certain checkouts, not at every one like it was in the smaller version.
 
> > The Rochester (NY) D & C has only prime time TV listing
> but
> > a suplement on Sunday that has complete listings. When TV
>
> > Guide was in its prime I thought the newspaper guide was a
>
> > joke and threw it out. Now I don't think it's funny
> anymore
> > and keep it around but it still not any better than it
> was.
> >
> > Rochester was, also, a test market for the larger size TV
> > Guide in the 90's.
> > I liked it. Thought it worked well. I think I have kept
> a
> > couple editions around. My understanding is that it failed
>
> > because supermarkets & newstands had to find room for it
> on
> > their shelves. The smaller size edition already had a
> > custom size placement. So I don't know what they are
> going
> > to do with this turkey they are putting out now.
> >
>
> I sympathize with phillyradiogeek; I hate to see anyone
get laid off (as has been the case with the textile and
furniture industries down here), and, besides, I was probably
one of TV Guide's best customers, usually subscribing to several
editions at once.

But I think a couple of things happened. With Annenberg, there
were always plenty of informative articles, not only about the
people we saw on-camera, but the ones who ran the show (I
remember an extensive one on Fred Silverman at the height of
his success at ABC) and the issues the industry was confronting
(think Newton Minow's "vast wasteland" speech). I learned a
lot of industry terminology, how the ratings are done, and I
got, as one of my professors once told me, a "national perspective"
most other TV-radio majors didn't have. Murdoch turned it into
one of his typical pictures-and-gossip publications. OK, I still
had local listings but I wasn't getting much hard information
about the industry. Then Gemstar came along, and truncated the
listings and dropped the channel charts (I still don't understand
why), and I began rethinking the amount of money I was spending
on the magazine.

Which brings me to point two. For years, TV Guide was 15 cents.
Price hikes were inevitable, I suppose, but I think that when
the single-issue newsstand price hit $2.49 (or more, for special
issues), many, many people said, Why spend that much? I'll
just use my Saturday (or Sunday) newspaper insert, which doesn't
cost me extra.

I suppose the beginning of the end of TV Guide as we knew it
was the cable boom, beginning in the early '80s. With as many
channels as suddenly became available, TV Guide was on the verge
of looking like a medium-size city's telephone book. Even though
the testing of large-format editions failed, the handwriting was
probably on the wall as early as 1981: a digest-size magazine
couldn't hold all the channels. I'm therefore surprised that the
digest-size TV Guide hung on as long as it did.
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by bpatrick on 10/15/05 09:41 PM.</FONT></P>
 
> For instance reading over the TV Guide corp site I
> constantly hear that the small size was a major liability
> for the magazine. WHY? I have yet to hear an explination
> from NewsCorp for that.

In my opinion, that's alot of bull -- Reader's Digest, Soap Opera Digest, Disney Adventures and Jet are doing just fine with their digest-sized formats.

And if they thought that size matters, why did they release a special plastic, digest-sized TV Guide cover -- just before they annnounced that they would soon be obsolete?

> Murdoch, I believe owns 40% of TV Guide it simply looks like
> he doesn't want to ut in any money to save the old format,
> he seems to be willing to bleed the remaing money from a
> company then fold it.
>

If so, why couldn't he fold TVG right away, instead of reinventing it first?
 
> And as far as newspapers: Fewer and fewer of them have much
> in the way of TV listings.
>
> Here in Boston, the Herald years ago ceased to run daily TV
> listings outside of prime-time. They did have a full-fledged
> Sunday TV supplement, but that was discontinued this past
> June.
>
> And the Boston Globe recently eliminated daytime and
> late-night TV listings from their daily editions. They still
> publish a Sunday TV supplement, but it's anybody's guess as
> to how long they will continue to do so. It may not be long
> until that too gets discontinued.

Joseph -

I brought this up the last time you made this particular prediction, and it got no response, so of course I'll do it again...

Sunday TV supplements aren't going anywhere, the Herald to the contrary. Every major newspaper that tries to tinker with its Sunday TV book learns, very quickly, that if there's one thing that drives readers into apoplexy, it's reducing the listings they carry on Sundays. (Tinkering with the comics comes in a close second.)

The Sunday Herald is a very special case. Its circulation, unlike the typical Sunday paper, is a small fraction of the paper's daily reach. The Herald undoubtedly loses money on the Sunday paper, so it'll grab any cost savings it can grab just to keep the thing alive at all. This is most emphatically NOT true of the Sunday Globe, nor of most other Sunday papers, for which the TV book remains a key part of the Sunday package that attracts the week's largest readership. It's just a quirk that applies to a very small number of tabloids (the New York Post is another good example) that have never had much weekend circulation and are not the dominant paper in their markets. Note that while the Post has just a thin 8-page TV supplement, the Daily News, the Times and all the suburban papers still do Sunday TV books.

(And of course the success of those Sunday newspaper TV books, as skimpy as some of them are, has been a continuing nail in the coffin of TV Guide over the years.)

<P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2006 JUST RELEASED! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P>
 
> Note that while
> the [New York] Post has just a thin 8-page TV supplement, the Daily
> News, the Times and all the suburban papers still do Sunday
> TV books.

When the New York Post expanded to Sundays in the late-1980s, they tried being like other Sundays with color comics (previously, the Post's Sunday comics were black-and-white on Saturdays), USA Weekend magazine and a TV magazine (which was a syndicated magazine (Scripps' "TV Update", I think), not one made from scratch by the Post). This didn't last long, and the Post had conisderably slimmed down its Sunday edition by eliminating USA Weekend, returning Sunday comics to black-and-white (but still on Sundays), and having only the TV page for Sunday's listings, with no magazine (though the weekly listings came later).

The Post did carry a TV listings insert from TV Guide a few years ago, but they were just colored grids -- that didn't last long, either.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom