About time somebody noticed.

[Sgeirk]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007250708,00.html

Music sounds like crap today....

 

[The F Mister]

I Agree..... It's f*cking up my processing. ;D

No seriously, if you have a setting "on the limit" like me, the new music like the one's Justine Timberlake had it's hands on just f*cks up big-time. Why even bother buying expensive multiband processors. Just some limiting could be enough. Just to exadurate but you get my point.

 

[mr_elbows]

'all the dynamic range of a brick' pretty much sums it up

 

[menotti1]

AMEN Brother.Hard to get that cut to cut consistency when the processor is freaking out trying to handle horrible source material.But on top of that most stations process the crap out of it,even with added clipping.and it just gets worse.record companies need to wake up and get serious..IMHO

 

[jcolletta275]

Here's one solution: if you're running heavy processing, back off of it! I understand the source material is horrible for broadcast, but if you're running processing that's making it worse, stop it! Radio stations who do so have no room to complain.

As for the article itself, I've been saying this for years. It started not long after CD's became mainstream. Remember how we were told CD's offered better dynamic range than vinyl because of the lower noise floor? Then producers began clipping, hard limiting and processing the discs themselves... and we were told the discs "sound more like radio" and that listeners would enjoy them more. What a crock.

If you ask me, the backlash is starting about 20 years too late. But, better late than never in this case.

 

[4dude]

Music sounds like crap today....

Nobody GOOD left in the market that knows or cares about what they are doing is what it comes down to!

 

[The F Mister]

Here's one solution: if you're running heavy processing, back off of it! I understand the source material is horrible for broadcast, but if you're running processing that's making it worse, stop it! Radio stations who do so have no room to complain.

There is a night and day difference between de source material from the last couple of years and everything before. When you set your processing to be great for 90's music and then take a track from 2005 or later of the same music style of course, it just get horrible. They push the envelope. Shore you could ease on your processing to meet in the middle, but this doesn't change the fact that your sound becomes inconsistent. Crap in equals crap out.

 

[ChiefOperator]

Agree with everything said... A short time ago, I monitored a group of emails about this subject between Bob Orban and others. Orban was complaining that today's CD's are so overly processed during mix that his processors simply clip the audio. Orban offered, among other solutions, that the record labels should produce a "broadcast mix" for use by station processors.

 

[Robert Bass]

Agree with everything said... A short time ago, I monitored a group of emails about this subject between Bob Orban and others. Orban was complaining that today's CD's are so overly processed during mix that his processors simply clip the audio. Orban offered, among other solutions, that the record labels should produce a "broadcast mix" for use by station processors.

That is precisely what JonesTM does.

R

 

[ChiefOperator]

Agree with everything said... A short time ago, I monitored a group of emails about this subject between Bob Orban and others. Orban was complaining that today's CD's are so overly processed during mix that his processors simply clip the audio. Orban offered, among other solutions, that the record labels should produce a "broadcast mix" for use by station processors.

That is precisely what JonesTM does.

R

So JonesTM compensates for the over processed audio? How is that done? Isn't the audio already over processed once JonesTM receives it??

Thanks!

 

[jboydingram]

If he is speaking of their Satellite feeds...heaven forbid...some of their cuts are "out of this world" as far as airable quality is concerned...BAD,,,Thanks JBI

 

[Robert Bass]

Agree with everything said... A short time ago, I monitored a group of emails about this subject between Bob Orban and others. Orban was complaining that today's CD's are so overly processed during mix that his processors simply clip the audio. Orban offered, among other solutions, that the record labels should produce a "broadcast mix" for use by station processors.

That is precisely what JonesTM does.

R

So JonesTM compensates for the over processed audio? How is that done? Isn't the audio already over processed once JonesTM receives it??

Thanks!

JonesTM/TMCentury/Century21 has always obtained special masters direct from the labels, which as I understand it are different from the masters used for the consumer CD's. They also have technology that cleans up noise. It's caled NoNoise, and is a very expensive process.

Looking at graphic wav file images of the same song, one copy from JonesTM and the other storebought, you'll see and hear the difference.

R

 

[ChiefOperator]

Agree with everything said... A short time ago, I monitored a group of emails about this subject between Bob Orban and others. Orban was complaining that today's CD's are so overly processed during mix that his processors simply clip the audio. Orban offered, among other solutions, that the record labels should produce a "broadcast mix" for use by station processors.

That is precisely what JonesTM does.

R

So JonesTM compensates for the over processed audio? How is that done? Isn't the audio already over processed once JonesTM receives it??

Thanks!

JonesTM/TMCentury/Century21 has always obtained special masters direct from the labels, which as I understand it are different from the masters used for the consumer CD's. They also have technology that cleans up noise. It's caled NoNoise, and is a very expensive process.

Looking at graphic wav file images of the same song, one copy from JonesTM and the other storebought, you'll see and hear the difference.

R

That's interesting. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info!!

 

[RememberWHEN]

I have no doubt that Jones/TM has gone to some effort to get the cleanest source material they can to assemble a library but...if this is true (what is your source of information on this??) that could drive many an engineer and/or PD in a particular market nuts trying to figure out why the other station that happens to play a couple of the same songs as their station (rare, of course) sounds "better." Particularly if they've got a pretty good idea what other boxes are in the other station's chain.

 

[Robert Bass]

I have no doubt that Jones/TM has gone to some effort to get the cleanest source material they can to assemble a library but...if this is true (what is your source of information on this??) that could drive many an engineer and/or PD in a particular market nuts trying to figure out why the other station that happens to play a couple of the same songs as their station (rare, of course) sounds "better." Particularly if they've got a pretty good idea what other boxes are in the other station's chain.

Regarding the info for JonesTM and how they get their source material, it was included in a brochure when then Century21 started offering HitDiscs and GoldDiscs.

As to comparing how the same song sounds on two different stations? Well for starters that all depends on everything in the chain, and how it's configured, aside from source material of course.

R

 

[davideduardo]

JonesTM/TMCentury/Century21 has always obtained special masters direct from the labels, which as I understand it are different from the masters used for the consumer CD's. They also have technology that cleans up noise. It's caled NoNoise, and is a very expensive process.

Looking at graphic wav file images of the same song, one copy from JonesTM and the other storebought, you'll see and hear the difference.

R

TM avoided vinyl and early CDs in compiling the original GoldDisk series, preferring to get a direct copy of the original master tape. This step avoided changes in the source material for vinyl or CD mastering, and was also a sales "hook" to guarantee the cleanest copy. Today, masters are digital and there is essentially no loss from the original to the HitDisk or Gold Disk update.

These "copies of masters" were not "special" in any way except for being a second generation copy that was uncolored as much as an analog to analog copy can be.

The HitDisk(tm) series used and uses the same promo copies of new releases that everyone gets; they may get some of them earlier (a pre-release) so TM has time to put them on the HitDisk service in time for the general release date... but there is no time to get "special" copies, and no way to get what does not exist anyway.

The differences you note in waveforms are due to the differences between mastering for vinyl, CDs, etc., and, even changes in technology at the time of different mastering occasions.

 

[davideduardo]

Agree with everything said... A short time ago, I monitored a group of emails about this subject between Bob Orban and others. Orban was complaining that today's CD's are so overly processed during mix that his processors simply clip the audio. Orban offered, among other solutions, that the record labels should produce a "broadcast mix" for use by station processors.

That is precisely what JonesTM does.

No it's not. While TM got copies of masters for the original GoldDisks, the HitDisk services use the same promo cuts as all other radio and club jocks get. Some slight differences may come from the fact that today many promo copies are MP3's and sent over the web, so they might be slightly different from the commercial CD due to 1) coding / decoding and 2) mastering of the retail copy vs. mastering of the promo single (which is often "burnt" and not "stamped").

While there are radio edits of many songs (to make them clean or shorter) there are no special mixes just for TM/Jones. Were there to be, it would be prominently featured on their website... which is not the case.

 

[Robert Bass]

Agree with everything said... A short time ago, I monitored a group of emails about this subject between Bob Orban and others. Orban was complaining that today's CD's are so overly processed during mix that his processors simply clip the audio. Orban offered, among other solutions, that the record labels should produce a "broadcast mix" for use by station processors.

That is precisely what JonesTM does.

No it's not. While TM got copies of masters for the original GoldDisks, the HitDisk services use the same promo cuts as all other radio and club jocks get. Some slight differences may come from the fact that today many promo copies are MP3's and sent over the web, so they might be slightly different from the commercial CD due to 1) coding / decoding and 2) mastering of the retail copy vs. mastering of the promo single (which is often "burnt" and not "stamped").

While there are radio edits of many songs (to make them clean or shorter) there are no special mixes just for TM/Jones. Were there to be, it would be prominently featured on their website... which is not the case.

NU UH.... Sorry David but you are WRONG again.

We still work with JonesTM and they tell me the process of obtaining source material has not changed.

I know what you are really up to, so I will not continue this little game.

R

 

[Sgeirk]

I notice notice that on some of the remastered or re-issued greatest hits, the audio is mashed and, on some, there is additional stereo "staging."

(which sounds bad on radio)

The TM library, linear, sounds pretty darn good, the older songs are clean. I just wish there were more FULL album versions, and mono options on some of the mono original oldies. I can't vouch for audio on current hit disks.

 

[Sgeirk]

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article1878724.ece

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