-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Adobe 3.0
- Thread starter salchris
- Start date
Hey Scott,
Not released today, but it has been announced. It should be available in the next two months. I can't say much, but I can tell you that it is definately worth the upgrade price ($99 from ANY previous version of Audition). 2.0 certainly did have its share of problems...And Adobe was well aware of those problems. A huge amount of work and testing have gone into this release. Without giving any details, I will tell you that many (if not all) of my personal gripes have been addressed, in one way or another. Another tester has said that 3.0 is what 2.0 should have been, with a few extra bells and whistles added in. And I would agree with that completely. I think every 2.0 user should make this upgrade, and I think most users that have stuck with previous versions will like it as well.
More info on some of the features is available on Adobe's website.
Emmett
Not released today, but it has been announced. It should be available in the next two months. I can't say much, but I can tell you that it is definately worth the upgrade price ($99 from ANY previous version of Audition). 2.0 certainly did have its share of problems...And Adobe was well aware of those problems. A huge amount of work and testing have gone into this release. Without giving any details, I will tell you that many (if not all) of my personal gripes have been addressed, in one way or another. Another tester has said that 3.0 is what 2.0 should have been, with a few extra bells and whistles added in. And I would agree with that completely. I think every 2.0 user should make this upgrade, and I think most users that have stuck with previous versions will like it as well.
More info on some of the features is available on Adobe's website.
Emmett
G
ginkgotree
Guest
What I've seen from their site looks really good. Some great improvements.
Are they still missing the feature that lets you select a section of the waveform
delete it...then the two pieces automatically come together?...or is there a keystroke
for this already?
We will probably go with 3.0 soon.
Are they still missing the feature that lets you select a section of the waveform
delete it...then the two pieces automatically come together?...or is there a keystroke
for this already?
We will probably go with 3.0 soon.
VODood said:
The way that has always been done with Audition is to simply switch to the edit widow and apply there. Unless I'm misunderstanding, that has been available since the original Cool Edit.
Aside from what is mentioned on the Adobe website, I cannot discuss details. I can only say that many areas have been hugely improved. And I suppose I can also say that there are many small features that have been added that are not specifically mentioned on the site. I will also say that I cannot think of any way that PT LE or M-Powered outperforms this release. If you're in love with the PT interface and workflow, that's one thing. In terms of features and power, I think AA 3 is equal to or more powerful than PT (except, of course, for HD systems).
Emmett
M
menotti1
Guest
their best offering to date.they have a winner,here.Really impressed with the demo.Might ask Santa for it this year.
menotti1 said:
There is no demo...The product isn't finished. There's only a 2.0 demo and I can assure you that 3.0 is superior. Demo will be available in November.
Emmett
I love my Cool Edit Pro, but it crashes frequently: most often when I've highlighted an area I want to boost or equalize (Pentium 4, Windows XP... I will be happy to try any of your suggestions). Quick questions:
- When will the $99 upgrade be available? Price-wise, I think it's a no-brainer.
- Do you think it would crash less?
- Would you suggest buying Pro Tools if I could get a version relatively cheaply (if for no other reason than to be able to add Pro Tools to my resume)?
Thanks for all your expertise, I really enjoy all this. And to think I got stuck w/ Wizard Editor as my primary program for a while.
- When will the $99 upgrade be available? Price-wise, I think it's a no-brainer.
- Do you think it would crash less?
- Would you suggest buying Pro Tools if I could get a version relatively cheaply (if for no other reason than to be able to add Pro Tools to my resume)?
Thanks for all your expertise, I really enjoy all this. And to think I got stuck w/ Wizard Editor as my primary program for a while.
Just Another Idiot on the Radio said:
BANG! There it goes again, during a highlight as usual. On my Windows Task Manager, I now see TWO Cool Edit Pros "Not Responding"... nothing happens when I highlight one or both and click "Switch To."
I wonder if uninstalling "Ad-Aware" and "Spybot Search & Destroy" might help stop this. Lately, Spybot keeps popping up with annoying windows telling me it "... just blocked the download of 'Double Click'" etc. ??? The frequent crashes began long before the Spybot issue, however.
Unfortunately, there is no upgrade path from Cool Edit Pro, since it is not technically Audition. The upgrade only goes back to AA 1.0. But to answer your question, this version will be available in November.
What version of CEP are you using? It shouldn't be crashing that way.
Emmett
What version of CEP are you using? It shouldn't be crashing that way.
Emmett
Emmett said:
Bummer. I wonder if I should try an affordable version of Pro Tools, or how much the Audition 3.0 will cost me without being able to upgrade from CEP?
Emmett said:
It's CEP 1.0. Stop laughing, all of you! Yes, I still own carts and reels, too. I got CEP cheap on e-bay, and it's really been a great learning experience before the crashes began (beats the Wizard Editor I had to use at work anytime). Dear friends keep trying to push me to the Apple side.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to finish writing a letter on my Commodore PET with the chiclet keyboard and green-only CRT, then print it on my dot matrix printer.
I believe the price is $350. I would have recommended previous versions over Pro Tools...Definately this release. No question. In terms of editing power, PT is infantile in comparison. In terms of multitrack and routing, they are pretty equal (if you ignore the flawed PT mix bus). In terms of CPU usage, PT may have the edge, but it's hard to say for sure. It's also hard to speak for stability, but I would place them pretty equal. And price is pretty comparable, so it really comes down to workflow and style.
CEP 1.0 was not very stable. Version 1.2a was the first really solid version...So I'm not exactly sure how to help you. The Audition website has a lot of tips for optimizing your PC for Audio. Might be worth a look. May or may not help.
Emmett
CEP 1.0 was not very stable. Version 1.2a was the first really solid version...So I'm not exactly sure how to help you. The Audition website has a lot of tips for optimizing your PC for Audio. Might be worth a look. May or may not help.
Emmett
Holy smokes Emmett, you sure know a lot about Audition! Are you a beta tester??? I'm a Protools man myself but have always loved CEP/ Audition and I'm glad to see someone is keeping Digi sharp and giving them some competition. Audition is powerful software, and for the money you can't beat it. One question for Emmett. You referred to Protools having a flawed mixing system. Can you elaborate? I've always felt that Audition was kinda flawed because there was no sidechaining without downloading a 3rd party plug - in. But now it looks like they have fixed that in 3.0.
Yes, competition is good. Audition has taken some cues from Pro Tools and picked up some of the more useful features, plus they've adopted some of the PT terminology. It has actually become pretty easy to move from one system to another, which I think is especially beneficial in a radio environment, where one may have to move from one production room to another. Audition has done a fantastic job of offering more than the other major editors (Sound Forge and Wavelab). 2.0 took a big step forward in the multitrack area and 3.0 refines that further and adds a considerable amount of 'musical' features, while continuing to develop the editing features further. 3.0 won't be perfect...Adobe has added enough features that there are bound to be complaints and gripes about the new stuff, but it's definately growing by leaps and bounds. Adobe has had the radio market for quite awhile and, if marketed well, this release has the potential to be a serious player in the musical field, as well.
As for the PT mixing engine, it doesn't automatically sum. This was overlooked in the beginning and the basic engine has never been rebuilt or corrected. I'm not sure why. But it requires a passive summing module and this is a definate flaw that no other audio software has. The real problem with PT these days, is that the lower-end versions are restricted by the higher-end versions. PTLE and M-Powered are developed 'in step' with the HD systems. This is actually a bad thing in disguise. It takes much more work to add features to the HD systems than it does to add some code to the software-based systems. I have no doubt that digidesign could easily add plenty of featues to the 'home' PT versions, but then their home versions would have more features than their flagship professional products, and that could be bad for business. That's a good way to irritate the hell out of your high-paying customers. A perfect example of this is the fact that PT only does real-time bounce, while all other major software does faster than realtime. The reason for this is that TDM processing found in HD systems, must be done in real-time. Digidesign could easily allow LE and M-Powered versions to do faster than real-time, but then their LE product would offer a feature missing from the HD systems. There are several places where these same restrictions hold true. It's going to begin to damage the PT user-base, simply because all other DAW software is able to be developed faster and add more unrestricted features. With things like the Mbox, PT has gotten a solid hold on the home market. I think they're going to lose it if they don't start adding some new features. If that means that LE has some advanced features not found in the HD systems, so be it. There will, I think, still be plenty of major studios willing to pay for the power of an HD system. Even if they're missing a few 'toys', HD systems still offer unmatched processing and mixing power that pros will pay for.
Anyhow, yes, sidechain processing. I certainly agree that this is a weak spot. I'm not sure I'd call it a flaw, but it's definately a feature that should be there. Audition has long had frequency-specific compression, which is great for de-essing or reducing plosives, but does nothing for ducking, keying or triggering. I cannot comment on the status of this feature.
Again, it isn't a perfect release, but it's close enough to bring back a lot of Adobe customers that felt burned by 2.0, as well as a number of new customers. And yes, I'm on the prerelease testing team, which is the politically correct way to say that I'm a beta tester.
Emmett
As for the PT mixing engine, it doesn't automatically sum. This was overlooked in the beginning and the basic engine has never been rebuilt or corrected. I'm not sure why. But it requires a passive summing module and this is a definate flaw that no other audio software has. The real problem with PT these days, is that the lower-end versions are restricted by the higher-end versions. PTLE and M-Powered are developed 'in step' with the HD systems. This is actually a bad thing in disguise. It takes much more work to add features to the HD systems than it does to add some code to the software-based systems. I have no doubt that digidesign could easily add plenty of featues to the 'home' PT versions, but then their home versions would have more features than their flagship professional products, and that could be bad for business. That's a good way to irritate the hell out of your high-paying customers. A perfect example of this is the fact that PT only does real-time bounce, while all other major software does faster than realtime. The reason for this is that TDM processing found in HD systems, must be done in real-time. Digidesign could easily allow LE and M-Powered versions to do faster than real-time, but then their LE product would offer a feature missing from the HD systems. There are several places where these same restrictions hold true. It's going to begin to damage the PT user-base, simply because all other DAW software is able to be developed faster and add more unrestricted features. With things like the Mbox, PT has gotten a solid hold on the home market. I think they're going to lose it if they don't start adding some new features. If that means that LE has some advanced features not found in the HD systems, so be it. There will, I think, still be plenty of major studios willing to pay for the power of an HD system. Even if they're missing a few 'toys', HD systems still offer unmatched processing and mixing power that pros will pay for.
Anyhow, yes, sidechain processing. I certainly agree that this is a weak spot. I'm not sure I'd call it a flaw, but it's definately a feature that should be there. Audition has long had frequency-specific compression, which is great for de-essing or reducing plosives, but does nothing for ducking, keying or triggering. I cannot comment on the status of this feature.
Again, it isn't a perfect release, but it's close enough to bring back a lot of Adobe customers that felt burned by 2.0, as well as a number of new customers. And yes, I'm on the prerelease testing team, which is the politically correct way to say that I'm a beta tester.
Emmett
I can't talk about it. But I think a huge part of the 2.0 bloat was Adobe Bridge, which is an optional install. It still makes the download huge, but if you skip installing Bridge, it doesn't take up nearly as much room on the HD.
Emmett
Emmett
There are ways to do "faster than real time" in ProTools.
But the main reason I could never work with Adobe Audtion is the inablilty to record automation moves like you can in ProTools. It doesn't get any better while mixing: You grab a fader, ProTools starts recording your moves, you let go, it stops recording.
Can Audition do automation beyond drawing automation envelopes?
Also - Emmett - what are you talking about here?
As for the PT mixing engine, it doesn't automatically sum. This was overlooked in the beginning and the basic engine has never been rebuilt or corrected. I'm not sure why. But it requires a passive summing module and this is a definate flaw that no other audio software has.
I've never heard of this. I own 5 ProTools rigs, both LE and TDM. The playback engine works fine on both systems, it sums, and behaves just like analog consoles do. Nothing I've read has convinced me it's worth taking the time to mix "outside the box" for radio promos. Can you provide a link to elaborate how ProTools mixing engine doesn't "automatically sum"?
But the main reason I could never work with Adobe Audtion is the inablilty to record automation moves like you can in ProTools. It doesn't get any better while mixing: You grab a fader, ProTools starts recording your moves, you let go, it stops recording.
Can Audition do automation beyond drawing automation envelopes?
Also - Emmett - what are you talking about here?
As for the PT mixing engine, it doesn't automatically sum. This was overlooked in the beginning and the basic engine has never been rebuilt or corrected. I'm not sure why. But it requires a passive summing module and this is a definate flaw that no other audio software has.
I've never heard of this. I own 5 ProTools rigs, both LE and TDM. The playback engine works fine on both systems, it sums, and behaves just like analog consoles do. Nothing I've read has convinced me it's worth taking the time to mix "outside the box" for radio promos. Can you provide a link to elaborate how ProTools mixing engine doesn't "automatically sum"?
Yes. 2.0 added automation that functions as it should. 3.0 improves by adding a few features to it. Proper automation had been a major feature request prior to 2.0 and Adobe delivered a pretty typical automation engine. 3.0 adds some automation options not found in all DAWs. 12 years ago, the original Cool Edit was a shareware editor. Cool Edit Pro added a decent multitrack. CEP 2.0 incorporated real-time effects. Audition 2.0 added ASIO and automation, but had many flaws in other areas. 3.0 is finally equal to other DAWs in the multitrack environment, while remaining the most powerful editor on the market. It has taken awhile to get there, but Audition has grown up. Pro Tools was always designed as a professional product. Cool Edit was a crappy editor with a crappy name. That means a lot of people won't take it seriously. It did, afterall, start as SHAREWARE!
But the other way to look at that, is that Pro Tools doesn't change a huge amount, from one version to the next. Audition grows hugely with each release and is NOTHING like the program that started it.Well, I didn't find anything concrete enough to post, following a quick Google search. There's a lot of talk about it on forums, but I couldn't find anything scientific or anything that would qualify for more than babble. But there's an easy way to check this for yourself. Just pay attention to the difference in sound between a mix and a bounce. You'll notice that they don't sound quite the same. Bouncing sums properly, whereas the mix environment does not. So you end up with a little different sound. I can't specifically say that one sounds worse than the other, but they don't "gel" the same, which is BS if you've spent a huge amount of time crafting a mix. Of course, there are sums taking place in the mix, but they are incorrect. It's certainly not a major sound difference, but it's there and it's audible. Though a lot of pros sum externally, it isn't needed. There are plenty of summing plug-ins. The Waves L3 is a good example of a plug-in that was designed to compensate for this oversight. Waves describes it as: "The world’s first auto-summing multi-band limiter..." I'm not aware of any other platforms that would benefit from an "auto-summing" plug-in. A lot of people blame the "plastic" PT sound on this, but I'm a little more fair and blame that on overuse/misuse/abuse of plug-ins.
I think PT is going to start taking some hits. Nuendo is catching on big in the pro market, and there are lots of great home options. I really think that if Adobe markets this well, they can grab a nice chunk of the home market. More than PT, however, Sonar looks to take a big hit. PT has to worry more about Nuendo, I think.
BTW, even though I speak poorly of Pro Tools, if Audition dropped off the face of the earth, PT would likely be my second choice. If Wavelab got a little more user friendly, I might go that route too...
Emmett
PT has to worry more about Nuendo, I think.
Doesn't Nuendo cost around $4,500 - with no hardware? At that price, it won't threaten Digidesign - the Nuendo users will probably still run it on Digi HD hardware.
FWIW - i mix in ProTools by outputting back into a record track. I like to do this to immediately see the waveform, 'cause i'm very big on keeping levels low. I also bounced and imported into the session, and files sounded identical.
overuse/misuse/abuse of plug-ins.
I think a part of the problem may be what protools mixer does to the audio when it clips versus how the bounce handles clips. Very easy to jack up levels in ProTools - you won't see it in on LE hardware as much as the HD hardware - which has LED meters that go into the 'red' very easily. That, plus ProTools 12db fader gain has most producers I know clipping almost all the time - yielding waveforms that look like bricks. The summing problem you're talking about may be an artifact of this abuse.
Doesn't Nuendo cost around $4,500 - with no hardware? At that price, it won't threaten Digidesign - the Nuendo users will probably still run it on Digi HD hardware.
FWIW - i mix in ProTools by outputting back into a record track. I like to do this to immediately see the waveform, 'cause i'm very big on keeping levels low. I also bounced and imported into the session, and files sounded identical.
overuse/misuse/abuse of plug-ins.
I think a part of the problem may be what protools mixer does to the audio when it clips versus how the bounce handles clips. Very easy to jack up levels in ProTools - you won't see it in on LE hardware as much as the HD hardware - which has LED meters that go into the 'red' very easily. That, plus ProTools 12db fader gain has most producers I know clipping almost all the time - yielding waveforms that look like bricks. The summing problem you're talking about may be an artifact of this abuse.
- Status