Adobe Audition 3.0

[BobSacamano]

I just got Adobe Audition 3.0, and have have been spending the past day or 2 getting acclimated, and I'm especially enjoying the new processing options; The tube modeled and the multi-band compression..is anyone else using these?..what are some of your favorite presests?

 

[Emmett1057]

I don't use those modules, but they're based on iZotope technology and I love iZotope. Make sure you try out the ripple delete function in multitrack. Audition has needed it for a long time!

Emmett

 

[SportsRadioDoc]

The L1-Ultramaximizer (Trackslammer) is my "Compression" of choice. Also check out the goodies under the L3 heading.

 

[Emmett1057]

The L1 isn't an Audition function. It's a third-party Waves plug-in. It's the same algorithm as Audition's hard limiter. It's a strong tool and should almost never be used on voice.

Emmett

 

[moegreen]

The L1 isn't an Audition function.  It's a third-party Waves plug-in.  It's the same algorithm as Audition's hard limiter.  It's a strong tool and should almost never be used on voice.

Emmett

Dead on, Emmett.  Avoid making it muddy by slamming the limiting.  As for the plugins, I don't know how you can mistake Waves for the built-in Adobe ones.  -moe

 

[VODood]

The L1 isn't an Audition function. It's a third-party Waves plug-in. It's the same algorithm as Audition's hard limiter. It's a strong tool and should almost never be used on voice.

Emmett

Eric Chase, and many others, use the L1 on VO along with the C1 or other plugs.

 

[BobSacamano]

I've always kinda liked the -12 soft limiter for my voice, & I'm also experimenting with multiband for voice..the settings are low, but it sounds pretty decent

 

[Emmett1057]

The L1 isn't an Audition function. It's a third-party Waves plug-in. It's the same algorithm as Audition's hard limiter. It's a strong tool and should almost never be used on voice.

Emmett

Eric Chase, and many others, use the L1 on VO along with the C1 or other plugs.

First of all, I don't think that's correct at all. I have some EC dry VO around here somewhere and I'll guarantee it hasn't been limited. Second, I've fired VO people before for refusing to stop using it. It makes the voice essentially useless if you want to add further processing. A little basic corrective EQ and compression is fine, but any more than that and it becomes useless to me (and many producers). If I want somebody that hides behind heavy processing, I'll hire one of these kids that charges $15 per read. I want somebody who sounds good on their own...

And specific to the Waves plug-ins, unless you turn it off, you're adding dither when it isn't needed, which means to add any compression later would mean bringing up a noise floor that has already been boosted by the limiter and then more noise added from dither so it sounds like it's been recorded in a wind tunnel.

The L1, L2 and L3 are designed for final processing of a project and nothing more. Audition's hard-limiter and Sony's Wave Hammer are the same basic algorithm, so the same rules apply, with the exception of dither, which is included in Waves because of Pro Tools' (weak) fixed-point integer file format system and Waves' primary target is Pro Tools users.

What a hard limiter does, basically, is it clips the audio and redraws the wave in such a way that you don't get the square-wave infinite harmonic generation you would from clipping the waves. So the samples don't clip, but the transients are still flat on top, so you're ruining any decent transient response offered by a high-end mic or preamp. And then there's the obvious problem of the reduced dynamic resolution.

The record companies are at fault for people abusing the tool with their "loudness war" and I'm wondering when they're going to figure out that their average customer is not so stupid that they can't find the volume knob to turn it up...

 

[surfdude]

Lighten up Emmett. If it SOUNDS good, it is good, no matter what the tool.
I produce Radio and TV audio and use hard limiting all the time, sometimes
on just the voice to avoid transient spikes. Used carefully, it can sound
good in the mix.

I work in the real world, if the agency wants it loud, that's how they get it.

 

[VODood]

The L1 isn't an Audition function. It's a third-party Waves plug-in. It's the same algorithm as Audition's hard limiter. It's a strong tool and should almost never be used on voice.

Emmett

Eric Chase, and many others, use the L1 on VO along with the C1 or other plugs.

First of all, I don't think that's correct at all. I have some EC dry VO around here somewhere and I'll guarantee it hasn't been limited. Second, I've fired VO people before for refusing to stop using it. It makes the voice essentially useless if you want to add further processing. A little basic corrective EQ and compression is fine, but any more than that and it becomes useless to me (and many producers). If I want somebody that hides behind heavy processing, I'll hire one of these kids that charges $15 per read. I want somebody who sounds good on their own...

And specific to the Waves plug-ins, unless you turn it off, you're adding dither when it isn't needed, which means to add any compression later would mean bringing up a noise floor that has already been boosted by the limiter and then more noise added from dither so it sounds like it's been recorded in a wind tunnel.

The L1, L2 and L3 are designed for final processing of a project and nothing more. Audition's hard-limiter and Sony's Wave Hammer are the same basic algorithm, so the same rules apply, with the exception of dither, which is included in Waves because of Pro Tools' (weak) fixed-point integer file format system and Waves' primary target is Pro Tools users.

What a hard limiter does, basically, is it clips the audio and redraws the wave in such a way that you don't get the square-wave infinite harmonic generation you would from clipping the waves. So the samples don't clip, but the transients are still flat on top, so you're ruining any decent transient response offered by a high-end mic or preamp. And then there's the obvious problem of the reduced dynamic resolution.

The record companies are at fault for people abusing the tool with their "loudness war" and I'm wondering when they're going to figure out that their average customer is not so stupid that they can't find the volume knob to turn it up...

Hi Emmett

I actually have the VO settings printed out that EC posted to chasecuts.com. Admittedly I've also altered them a bit and saved differently. But EC did in fact talk about using the L1 on VO, then the C1.

He does use the L1, but he admits the attenuator doesn't move. He uses it to level the audio, then applies C1/Comp, or uses other plugs. I think he fancies the Sony Oxfords at this time.

The L1/C1 chain is something he was using 2 years or so ago. I like it. Seems to work.

I also like the Ozone 3 setttings you made for me. But most of the time it's 416 to Avalon M5 to dbx286, then Adobe Mackie Hi boost, L1/C1/SSL4000 comp.

I wish I knew how to EQ... I'm sure there'd be more presence in my voice.

I ask clients, ad nauseum, about the audio quality, etc. Never a negative.

To each his own. I'm sure I'll switch to something else down the road.



I've used the Wave Hammer on final mixes, especially for radio imaging. Joel Moss at WEBN uses Vegas, and in turn WH, religiously. Again, works for radio imaging.

Agency quality spot production... arguably a different story. I did a session last spring with a Sony800 and a Great River pre....I thought the final product sounded like crap. That's me.

 

[jefflaurence]

I don't know about a lot of those WAVES plug-ins. First off, that bundle (any of them) are WAY expensive for what they do, and yeah they can be over-cooked real quick. I im finding more and more radio stations SO processed that even the produced imaging I do is on the "lightly-processed" side..but I do go back to make sure transients are not too apparent..as far as spot production especially for regional or national..they want NOTHING added to the sound of the VO and the mic. Preseumably the best mic we can afford and one that we are comfortable with in most situations is the right mic for us. I know I go on and on around here about different mics, but it really isn't a matter of getting the newest, latest, oldest, biggest mic available..it's about a personal choice that makes us sound as we want to be heard.

Unfortunatly sometimes the plug-ins become like crack, and we over do it to the point that it might sound "BAAAD" on our monitors, but the final producers literally can't undo all that stuff, and they get flustered enought to find someone else...

Adobe Audition 3 is the best version of tis popular program out here, and it is fun to experiment with it.

 

[nightfly61]

I've got a digital mic plugged into my computer (usb) and am getting nothing. I changed the computer's setting...now how do I change Adobe 3.0's settings?
Also on my other PC I can record but not hear what I'm recording(also USB). I go to listen on playback & it's fine. Is that another setting?
(I'm so used to 1.5). Thanks!

 

[Emmett1057]

The L1 isn't an Audition function. It's a third-party Waves plug-in. It's the same algorithm as Audition's hard limiter. It's a strong tool and should almost never be used on voice.

Emmett

Eric Chase, and many others, use the L1 on VO along with the C1 or other plugs.

First of all, I don't think that's correct at all. I have some EC dry VO around here somewhere and I'll guarantee it hasn't been limited. Second, I've fired VO people before for refusing to stop using it. It makes the voice essentially useless if you want to add further processing. A little basic corrective EQ and compression is fine, but any more than that and it becomes useless to me (and many producers). If I want somebody that hides behind heavy processing, I'll hire one of these kids that charges $15 per read. I want somebody who sounds good on their own...

And specific to the Waves plug-ins, unless you turn it off, you're adding dither when it isn't needed, which means to add any compression later would mean bringing up a noise floor that has already been boosted by the limiter and then more noise added from dither so it sounds like it's been recorded in a wind tunnel.

The L1, L2 and L3 are designed for final processing of a project and nothing more. Audition's hard-limiter and Sony's Wave Hammer are the same basic algorithm, so the same rules apply, with the exception of dither, which is included in Waves because of Pro Tools' (weak) fixed-point integer file format system and Waves' primary target is Pro Tools users.

What a hard limiter does, basically, is it clips the audio and redraws the wave in such a way that you don't get the square-wave infinite harmonic generation you would from clipping the waves. So the samples don't clip, but the transients are still flat on top, so you're ruining any decent transient response offered by a high-end mic or preamp. And then there's the obvious problem of the reduced dynamic resolution.

The record companies are at fault for people abusing the tool with their "loudness war" and I'm wondering when they're going to figure out that their average customer is not so stupid that they can't find the volume knob to turn it up...

Hi Emmett

I actually have the VO settings printed out that EC posted to chasecuts.com. Admittedly I've also altered them a bit and saved differently. But EC did in fact talk about using the L1 on VO, then the C1.

He does use the L1, but he admits the attenuator doesn't move. He uses it to level the audio, then applies C1/Comp, or uses other plugs. I think he fancies the Sony Oxfords at this time.

The L1/C1 chain is something he was using 2 years or so ago. I like it. Seems to work.

I also like the Ozone 3 setttings you made for me. But most of the time it's 416 to Avalon M5 to dbx286, then Adobe Mackie Hi boost, L1/C1/SSL4000 comp.

I wish I knew how to EQ... I'm sure there'd be more presence in my voice.

I ask clients, ad nauseum, about the audio quality, etc. Never a negative.

To each his own. I'm sure I'll switch to something else down the road.



I've used the Wave Hammer on final mixes, especially for radio imaging. Joel Moss at WEBN uses Vegas, and in turn WH, religiously. Again, works for radio imaging.

Agency quality spot production... arguably a different story. I did a session last spring with a Sony800 and a Great River pre....I thought the final product sounded like crap. That's me.

If the attenuater isn't moving, then there's no limiting going on...It's just like normalizing. But there is (or at least was) a good reason for doing that. At one time, the gain structure of the L1 was superior to that of Pro Tools. So if you needed to normalize a signal, it was better to use the L1 to boost amplitude. I honestly couldn't say whether or not this is still true, but I'm not aware of any other programs that have gain issues like that...But yes, if you're not squashing the audio, it's fine to boost amplitude, although any 32-bit FP program (which is nearly everything except Pro Tools) should be just fine by normalizing or just boosting the amplitude.

There is some interesting stuff in the Sony Oxford bundle. The Inflator is really cool, but it's VERY easy to go too far with it. Just a tiny sprinkle is cool though, especially if you like tube or tape saturation. Personally, if I were using Pro Tools, I'd go with the McDSP stuff...It's great! I wish they'd release a native version.

And there's certainly nothing wrong with using something like this on a final mix. If it's a current music station, it's essentially unless you want your imaging to sound like a mouse fart. For an 80s, classic rock or classic hits station, I probably wouldn't use it...But current music makes it important. Based on null tests, the Wave Hammer's limiter is just like the L1 and Audition's Hard Limiter. So any of those are fine.


Jeff,

They are expensive and, in reality, they don't provide a hell of a lot. But there are some things. Stuff like the SSL bundle, API bundle, X-Crackle and L3 aren't duplicated anywhere else. So there is an advantage with those. The other advantage is that Waves plug-ins generally don't use much CPU juice...They're designed for a real-time environment and work better, in that regard, than just about everything else. The final benefit is simply the GUI. They're easy to read and control, unlike Audition and Sony's built-in effects, which are, frankly, hideous and utilitarian.

As for mics, I've been testing dozens lately (preamps too) and my results are not what you would expect. I'm doing the testing in my studio with gear I know really well. With ABX testing, my AT4040 is kicking the ass of almost everything else and so is the preamp in my Focusrite Voicemaster Pro. So far, the only preamp I have liked better is the Chandler Limited TG-2 Abbey Road Edition (which is much more expensive). It wasn't a clear winner either....Just barely. And I have yet to find a mic that I like better, although it was a toss up between the Neumann BCM 104 and the AT4040. On the low-end, the ART Digital MPA was the worst sounding preamp of the bunch and I didn't care much for the AEA ribbon mics (the R84 and R92) and the Shure KSM 44.

 

[SportsRadioDoc]

Hey Moe, I wasn't mistaking 3rd party plug-ins with the built-in tools. I was just pointing out that I prefer the L1U to the Tube compressor.

It is fun looking at the different takes on this subject. Sounds like some people use it on VO and some don't. If I will be using it in the final mix, I don't use it on the VO first. If I won't be using it in the final mix then I will use it on the VO. There are many different aspects that come in to play that help me decide when to use the L1U, but my stuff never sounds muddy and I'll be happy to let anybody hear it that would like to. Just ask.

 

[VODood]

Hey Moe, I wasn't mistaking 3rd party plug-ins with the built-in tools. I was just pointing out that I prefer the L1U to the Tube compressor.

It is fun looking at the different takes on this subject. Sounds like some people use it on VO and some don't. If I will be using it in the final mix, I don't use it on the VO first. If I won't be using it in the final mix then I will use it on the VO. There are many different aspects that come in to play that help me decide when to use the L1U, but my stuff never sounds muddy and I'll be happy to let anybody hear it that would like to. Just ask.

Dave Kampel and "bc" are notorious for limiting the sh*t out of their VO. It's like a brick wall. Of course it's for radio imaging and not commerical VO - two completely different things.

But as a producer I can't stand even radio VO's brick walling their audio. I can't do a thing with it.


I bought the AT4047 based on reviews, and Emmett's strong suggestion for my voice .... but I didn't really dig it and went back to the 416. Will hold on to the AT4047 for awhile.


The compression plug I dig over all others is the Dynamics from Sony Vegas, it's EFX 1 pack. Not a bad deal at $30.00

 

[Emmett1057]

Hey Moe, I wasn't mistaking 3rd party plug-ins with the built-in tools. I was just pointing out that I prefer the L1U to the Tube compressor.

It is fun looking at the different takes on this subject. Sounds like some people use it on VO and some don't. If I will be using it in the final mix, I don't use it on the VO first. If I won't be using it in the final mix then I will use it on the VO. There are many different aspects that come in to play that help me decide when to use the L1U, but my stuff never sounds muddy and I'll be happy to let anybody hear it that would like to. Just ask.

Dave Kampel and "bc" are notorious for limiting the sh*t out of their VO. It's like a brick wall. Of course it's for radio imaging and not commerical VO - two completely different things.

But as a producer I can't stand even radio VO's brick walling their audio. I can't do a thing with it.


I bought the AT4047 based on reviews, and Emmett's strong suggestion for my voice .... but I didn't really dig it and went back to the 416. Will hold on to the AT4047 for awhile.


The compression plug I dig over all others is the Dynamics from Sony Vegas, it's EFX 1 pack. Not a bad deal at $30.00

I've never worked with BC, but I've heard that A LOT about his VO.

Indeed, brick walling is no good for a good producer...It's great for someone who doesn't do production as their primary gig though.

It's pretty hard to give up the 416 unless you just get sick of it...If you still like it, nothing is going to sound quite right in comparison. If I recall, Jeff Berlin is an example of someone who go sick of that sound and moved to Soundeluxe. I'm sure he'll correct me if that's wrong.

 

[VODood]

Hey Moe, I wasn't mistaking 3rd party plug-ins with the built-in tools. I was just pointing out that I prefer the L1U to the Tube compressor.

It is fun looking at the different takes on this subject. Sounds like some people use it on VO and some don't. If I will be using it in the final mix, I don't use it on the VO first. If I won't be using it in the final mix then I will use it on the VO. There are many different aspects that come in to play that help me decide when to use the L1U, but my stuff never sounds muddy and I'll be happy to let anybody hear it that would like to. Just ask.

Dave Kampel and "bc" are notorious for limiting the sh*t out of their VO. It's like a brick wall. Of course it's for radio imaging and not commerical VO - two completely different things.

But as a producer I can't stand even radio VO's brick walling their audio. I can't do a thing with it.


I bought the AT4047 based on reviews, and Emmett's strong suggestion for my voice .... but I didn't really dig it and went back to the 416. Will hold on to the AT4047 for awhile.


The compression plug I dig over all others is the Dynamics from Sony Vegas, it's EFX 1 pack. Not a bad deal at $30.00

I've never worked with BC, but I've heard that A LOT about his VO.

Indeed, brick walling is no good for a good producer...It's great for someone who doesn't do production as their primary gig though.

It's pretty hard to give up the 416 unless you just get sick of it...If you still like it, nothing is going to sound quite right in comparison. If I recall, Jeff Berlin is an example of someone who go sick of that sound and moved to Soundeluxe. I'm sure he'll correct me if that's wrong.

I want a Soundelux (Bock Audio) U195. Itching to get one. Have to wait to see what the CPA says about taxes.