Adult Standards Formats

[bchristi]

I wasn't sure where to put this topic. There isn't a subsection for Standards so I put it under the closest thing I could find.

Are days for the Adult Standards format numbered? These stations never tend to last very long yet there must be a pretty big market for it out there. I know the format is geared for the rapidly dissapearing pre-World War II generation, but done right I think it could do well in affluent markets today as classical does. I would hate to see this music die off as future generations should be exposed to it. What do you think?

 

[BlueHen]

Are days for the Adult Standards format numbered? These stations never tend to last very long yet there must be a pretty big market for it out there. I know the format is geared for the rapidly dissapearing pre-World War II generation, but done right I think it could do well in affluent markets today as classical does. I would hate to see this music die off as future generations should be exposed to it. What do you think?

Here’s what I think…

Its days may be numbered as a format on conventional radio, but there’s enough interest to keep it from dying off, thanks to other modes of entertainment, including the internet. The problem is the very reason you stated… it’s aimed at a disappearing generation, and therein lies the mistake. Marketers with their heads in the sand have either failed to see the potential in being the only station in town for the audience, regardless of age, who appreciates fine music and left disenfranchised by their choices on the dial, or they simply don’t know how to present it to advertisers.

As an analogy, why do you see a new Walgreens being built on the corner when there’s already a CVS right across the street? Is the public better served? The merchandise in the aisles looks the same, only the name on the sign is different. Same with radio. It’s easier and safer to go with what’s familiar to most people. Since the other guy seems to be successful, let’s grab a piece of the pie and give the audience more of the same. So we end up with similar sounding formats with varying labels – Contemporary Hits, Rhythmic, AC, Hot AC, Urban, Urban AC. Whether one station’s playlist includes or excludes a particular song or artist is immaterial. The texture of the sound is the same.

Within the last 8 years, we’ve had 6 standards/MOR stations in my area drop the format. On the AM side, you often see standards stations switching to some form of talk or sports, when most of the time there’s already another one, if not several, in the market. Again, a piece of that pie. But after the switch, the ratings tank. Now, I’ve learned from this board that radio targets the advertisers and talk or sports is a more desirable demographic. So I’ve often wondered about the purpose of ratings. Can a standards station with respectable ratings be doing something right if it switches to sports/talk with ratings that don’t even register?

Is the public better served? I don’t think so. Instead, a small select group is served at the expense of the public.

 

[oaktree]

Well said, as always, Blue Hen -

Here's some more fodder to consider: Just who is Walgreen's targeting in their TV spots? I'd say "older" people over the age of 50 ... that's why the AARP is so pre-dominantly mentioned in the ads and why "price and value" are frequently mentioned when it comes to the cost of medicines or other items that Walgreen's shows that it is a "better buy" for older people. AARP, incidentally, is available for those 50+ ... not merely "geriatrics" for those unknowing.

Next, it comes back to the changing demos of those operating radio stations and, in particular, selling advertising or placing it. It's not just about "older, non-sellable demos," despite what some have vigorously defended here and on other boards ad nauseum.

The fact is, how many 23-year-old station sales reps or agency buyers do you know who relate to this format ... let alone to the demos it "perceives" as mostly worthless? There are a lot of them. Too many don't know the audience, thinking it's more like their parents, who they've tried for years in eagerness to get away from. A "mom and dad" format as we like is the last thing on the Hit Parade, if you will.

Buyers are just as bad or even worse. They are conditioned by the car manufacturers, especially, to be buying what we, the audience perceives everyone on the planet to be ...young, up-scale, sexy, attractive, skinny, near-model like and very very successful.

Yeah, that's what young people are, the ad buyers think. That's why an ad featuring a 20-something who looks like she just walked off a fashion show runway pushing Mercury cars is an absolute turn-off to me. Mercury may be an "older demo" image ... and should, then, sell to an "older demo" audience. But nobody wants to be considered "old."

Guess what, grandma? It's a shame you're being ignored by those who want you to be young, think young ... because they don't care. They want the younger audience ... that elusive "new" generation. Shame.

Next, it is NOT about being a pre-World War II generation that loves "Standards." OK. I lied. To those who love Sinatra on 78 rpm from his early World War II days, as well as the Duke Ellington, Artie Show, Glen Miller era ... maybe so. But there was a whole lot of great "Standards" music and "MOR" music that came out long after the 50s.

The Swingin' Sinatra (in stereo.) Perry Como, Steve & Eydie, Al Martino, Tom Jones, Engelbert, Rosemary Clooney, Herb Alpert, Sergio Mendes & Brazil '66 ... and on and on and on and on. We've discussed that here before.

Great music that newer, "hipper" more "younger targeted" GM's and programmers long ago forot. Shame.

Then there are those in programming who forgot that it's not just what's in the Joel Whitburn books or the Billboard and R&R charts that counts. Never once in 38 years have I ever heard a listener on the request line say, "Hey, why are you playing that Andy Williams or Tony Bennett record? It was a stiff and never made it on the Billboard charts."

Same with the Percy Faith, Ray Conniff or hundreds of other great artists who were a staple of "then" popular "Standards" or "MOR" radio as much as 25 or 30 years ago (with an audience now 45+ or older.)

We also forgot a whole slew of then "Adult Contemporary" music that must be very carefully programmed into this and with this format to make it work ... it has to be carefully done or it becomes a trainwreck. It takes work to do correctly.

Yet, people keep buying this music and makes it a huge hit...all the while, radio banishes it to the basement of radio stations all over the country.

Why?

Because the people doing it can't rely on Billboard or R&R as they can with an oldies format to program "Standards." They've got to have heart, passion and a love for the music ... just like mom and dad had. You can't "assume" a feeling for it based solely on "research."

This feeling, lovingly done, can be a winner. Ask KEZW in Denver, the former WPEN in Philadelphia and the new WHAT in the same city. Ask KAAM (whether the nay-sayers say it's bad or not ... for some people, it works, apparently.) Ask any of the 325 other stations programming live or (sadly) through its satellite incarnations on Dial Global, ABC, MOYL, Waitt or Jones/TM (and others.)

A format that works in Sarasota isn't necessarily going to work the same way in Spokane. It may work in Vero Beach, but not necessarily Visalia, CA. It's got to be promoted to and for a very loyal, active, upscale community who thirsts for what and who they are ... not what the time buyers and media "experts" say.

It's about local, direct ... not national spot buys.

But yes, it works. And can work very very well.

Like anything, though, it must be compelling, well done, well executed and loved. Not just a few Streisand and Jack Jones CDs. Not 94 cuts deep into the Nat King Cole library and certainly with the class and knowledge needed in presenting great artists like Ella, Sarah, Dean, Sammy and the rest ... with a strong look at the contemporaries of today ... Michael Buble', Diana Krall, Steve Tyrell and many more in a mix of exciting presentations all day and all night.

I love this format and I'm doing what I can not to be all things to all people. I'd rather have 1,000 of these listeners who respond in a big way to my advertisers than have 100 of the listeners who buy who are into brand X radio that boasts an audience of 35,000.

It works and it can. Don't just join in the chase for the same 25-44 that a dozen stations in your market are going for. There's a whole unique niche of active, spending, demanding people out there who want the same amount of attention ... and you probably have the P1 to yourself once you show you firm loyalty to them that you ask from them. Maybe not everyone. But a lot of somebody's frequently ignored and not heard. Now's the time to listen to them, as well.

 

[Chuck]

Just the other day, I was visiting with one of our underwriting sponsors. Without any prompting from me, he said "Anybody who ignores the growing 50 and older demographic, is simply fooling themselves."

Now, I know that his opinion is contrary to what many broadcasting professionals would have you believe, but I can tell you that the man who said that runs a very successful business and his checks are quite good. What more do you want?

My guess is the standards stations that fail are run by people who are looking for an autopilot format. The ones that are successful have owners and managers who are passionate about making their business succeed. To me, that's no surprise. I haven't seen too many businesses that are "set and forget." I don't know why radio should be any different, regardless of format.

By the way, did anybody notice that Queen Latifa is coming out with a new Standards album? Maybe she knows a good song when she hears one...

 

[dbdigital]

By the way, did anybody notice that Queen Latifa is coming out with a new Standards album? Maybe she knows a good song when she hears one...

This doesn't surprise me at all. I know several women in their 30's (my wife and her friends ) who enjoy adult standards and will listen to Sinatra and Harry Connick Jr. right along with Kayne West.

In fact, older demos aside, if radio is looking for a way to appeal to more females, adult standards is a format worth considering. I mean, a great love song (like "Beyond the Sea") will speak to a woman of any age.

A few years ago when Swing had a revival (renamed 'Hard Swing') bands like Royal Crown Revue were very popular with young people, particularly women who saw it as great dance music.

db

 

[Chuck]

By the way, did anybody notice that Queen Latifa is coming out with a new Standards album? Maybe she knows a good song when she hears one...

This doesn't surprise me at all. I know several women in their 30's (my wife and her friends ) who enjoy adult standards and will listen to Sinatra and Harry Connick Jr. right along with Kayne West.

In fact, older demos aside, if radio is looking for a way to appeal to more females, adult standards is a format worth considering. I mean, a great love song (like "Beyond the Sea") will speak to a woman of any age.

A few years ago when Swing had a revival (renamed 'Hard Swing') bands like Royal Crown Revue were very popular with young people, particularly women who saw it as great dance music.

db

It's still popular, and a lot of kids do like it, just as long as you don’t play the really boring stuff that sounds like a tenor yelling into a morning-glory horn.

A few months ago I was asked to MC a Ballroom Dance competition in Longview, TX. Although I'm optimistic that some kids actually like this stuff, even I though this event could be a recipe for disaster. I figured we'd be lucky to have 100 people show up. Boy was I surprised when they sold out the place and it was SRO. The audience was a fairly even mix of seniors and kids, with a lot of "thirty-something’s" thrown in.

The high school and college age kids were the ones having a real blast. They were really into it. Maybe there is hope.

 

[ChrisInMI]

Ah yes, I remember that Swing revival well. A number of those bands, like Cherry Poppin' Daddies, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, and Brian Setzer Orchestra, were actually being played on ALTERNATIVE ROCK stations. And then there's "Mambo No. 5" by Lou Bega (though I'd sooner forget that one).

I think perhaps one thing that keeps interest in the standards alive among people my age (I'm 27) is having participated in high school or college musicals which included many of those songs. I was part of the chorus for "The Pajama Game" when I was a senior, which is how I was introduced to the Rosemary Clooney classic "Hey There."

 

[dbdigital]

Ah yes, I remember that Swing revival well. A number of those bands, like Cherry Poppin' Daddies, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, and Brian Setzer Orchestra, were actually being played on ALTERNATIVE ROCK stations. And then there's "Mambo No. 5" by Lou Bega (though I'd sooner forget that one).

Interesting. Sort of like David Lee Roth's "Just a Gigolo" making the Top 40 chart many years ago.

A friend of mine who teaches music at a local university once told me that what made revival bands like Cherry Poppin' Daddies and the others you mention different from swing bands of an earlier age was that they had rock drummers who were playing swing. So while the drumming style wasn't pure swing it did have an energy that, I suppose you could say, connected with a younger crowd.

Plus modern recording technology provides the dynamics that's missing from many of the earlier, more mellow recordings (the vocalist with the megaphone sound that Chuck is describing) which makes these bands sound even more exciting.

db

 

[BlueHen]

While reading oaktree's post, I couldn't help but think of Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus...

Next, it is NOT about being a pre-World War II generation that loves "Standards." OK. I lied. To those who love Sinatra on 78 rpm from his early World War II days, as well as the Duke Ellington, Artie Show, Glen Miller era ... maybe so.

This reminded me of the Everybody Loves Raymond episode where Frank's old 78s got thrown away. Ray tries cheering him up by replacing them with CDs, but Frank has no interest in this new technology. Despite Ray's trying to convince him how the sound quality is far superior, Frank still misses his old scratchy 78s. Finally Robert is able to buy the 78s on ebay and Frank's in heavenly bliss listening to the skips & scratches while dancing with Marie.

There's something about those old records, isn't there? Try getting attached the same way to a file on an iPod.

They've got to have heart, passion and a love for the music ... just like mom and dad had. You can't "assume" a feeling for it based solely on "research."

I love this format and I'm doing what I can not to be all things to all people. I'd rather have 1,000 of these listeners who respond in a big way to my advertisers than have 100 of the listeners who buy who are into brand X radio that boasts an audience of 35,000.

See, as long as you have people like oaktree out there doing the programming at KKJL (and Chuck at KZQX, or Brian at WZRU who used to post here, and all you regular contributors to this board... vchimpanzee, a listener with a true passion for the format), this music's never going out of style. Yes, Virginia...

 

[BlueHen]

I know several women in their 30's (my wife and her friends ) who enjoy adult standards and will listen to Sinatra and Harry Connick Jr. right along with Kayne West.

In fact, older demos aside, if radio is looking for a way to appeal to more females, adult standards is a format worth considering. I mean, a great love song (like "Beyond the Sea") will speak to a woman of any age.

The high school and college age kids were the ones having a real blast. They were really into it. Maybe there is hope.

Has to make you wonder how they're finding out about it. A couple years ago a 19 year old girl in my office loved Sinatra, Dean Martin & Sammy Davis Jr (along with the Black Eyed Peas!), so it's not really her parents' music either. Well, given what passes for music that's out there today, it's no wonder young people are searching for something else.

 

[Chuck]

I know several women in their 30's (my wife and her friends ) who enjoy adult standards and will listen to Sinatra and Harry Connick Jr. right along with Kayne West.

In fact, older demos aside, if radio is looking for a way to appeal to more females, adult standards is a format worth considering. I mean, a great love song (like "Beyond the Sea") will speak to a woman of any age.

Has to make you wonder how they're finding out about it. A couple years ago a 19 year old girl in my office loved Sinatra, Dean Martin & Sammy Davis Jr (along with the Black Eyed Peas!), so it's not really her parents' music either. Well, given what passes for music that's out there today, it's no wonder young people are searching for something else.

I'm very encouraged when people tell me that they like more than one genre of music. That is healthy. There is no single type of music that is “better” than another. It’s all in your personal perspective. It is also OK to have favorites. I find mine have changed over the years, but usually I like just about everything, as long as the talent behind the performance is obvious. I've even heard a couple or RAP songs that were OK. Even though I spend most of my time running a Standards station, my musical tastes are very broad. I look upon that as a good thing, and encourage others to do the same.

Not long ago a kid called up asking about a song. "Who was that?" she said. "It sounded a lot like Michael Buble, but I can't find the song on any of his albums." It turned out the artist in question was Frank Sinatra. The question surprised me, until I remembered that to a 15 year old, 10 years is most of a lifetime. My guess is they find this music by tuning around on their radio to see what is on. I used to do that as a kid, and I'll bet that today's generation is no different in having curiosity. The real problem is they have a lot more choices than I did. When I was 15, on a good night, there might have been ten good stations to listen to. With the advent of the Internet, cell phones and numerous other distractions, there are thousands of things that compete for your attention. It’s a very fragmented world we live in.

 

[klutch00]

By the way, did anybody notice that Queen Latifa is coming out with a new Standards album? Maybe she knows a good song when she hears one...

This doesn't surprise me at all. I know several women in their 30's (my wife and her friends ) who enjoy adult standards and will listen to Sinatra and Harry Connick Jr. right along with Kayne West.

In fact, older demos aside, if radio is looking for a way to appeal to more females, adult standards is a format worth considering. I mean, a great love song (like "Beyond the Sea") will speak to a woman of any age.

A few years ago when Swing had a revival (renamed 'Hard Swing') bands like Royal Crown Revue were very popular with young people, particularly women who saw it as great dance music.

db

It's still popular, and a lot of kids do like it, just as long as you don’t play the really boring stuff that sounds like a tenor yelling into a morning-glory horn.

A few months ago I was asked to MC a Ballroom Dance competition in Longview, TX. Although I'm optimistic that some kids actually like this stuff, even I though this event could be a recipe for disaster. I figured we'd be lucky to have 100 people show up. Boy was I surprised when they sold out the place and it was SRO. The audience was a fairly even mix of seniors and kids, with a lot of "thirty-something’s" thrown in.

The high school and college age kids were the ones having a real blast. They were really into it. Maybe there is hope.

I do ballroom dancing at least once a week at a nightclub near Baltimore. Despite my being 'one of the pups' there, I'm not the only one. I think one source of advertising for a pop/standards formatted station might be the dance halls and nightclubs which feature such activities and entertainment. If the dance features a live band, it'll be an even bigger draw. I also think that a station might want to sponsor a dance.

 

[Chuck]

If the dance features a live band, it'll be an even bigger draw. I also think that a station might want to sponsor a dance.

These are things you really want to partner with. You will build your audience by doing it. Your total audience may never be huge, but it will be loyal, and so will your sponsors. Actually showing up at the events goes a long way, and costs you very little, other than your time.

We are actually starting a new one hour program on Monday nights that is a "Dance Party" hosted by one of our sponsors who happens to be very good dance instructor. He's quite popular locally, and will bring along his own fans. I think it will be popular with our off-air listeners. I’m not sure what our Internet fans will think, but realistically, they don’t pay any of the bills. At least, the music will be good.

Our big project at the moment is partnering with a local Film Festival. It has been very successful so far. The kind of people who go to Film Festivals are also the ones who are adventuresome enough to try different types of music. The station helps the festival get participants, and you get a chance to expose the station to people who have never heard of you. It's a win -win situation. (Did I mention that it also makes money?)

The problem with most Standards stations is they frequently don't do anything to connect with their community. They just switch on the bird and go away. Of course, there are some notable exceptions. You'll notice that those who are the exceptions are also doing OK. What a coincidence.

 

[Dighton Rockhead]

In recent months, I've become really spoiled by what I've been listening to on my cable system's digital "Music Choice" channels, especially by their "Singers and Standards" channel, and......to a lesser degree, to the "Swing / Big Band", and "Jazz" channels.

What I'm enjoying most about the "Singers and Standars" channel in particular, is that they seem to make it a point to include some of today's best and most exciting vocalists like Diana Krall, Michael Buble, Steve Tyrell, and others IN ADDITION to the Legendary vocalists of the 20th. Century.

After a while listening to "Singers and Standards" on Music Choice, I now find my local "Pointless Classics" station totallly unlistenable.

Too bad "Music Choice" can't modify thier channels into a form that can be used by commercial terrestrial stations. They would certainly have me as a listener in all those places where you can't be glued to your cable box.

 

[BlueHen]

Queen Latifah

By the way, did anybody notice that Queen Latifa is coming out with a new Standards album? Maybe she knows a good song when she hears one...

Has anyone heard this? I like it. My favorite tracks are "Poetry Man" and "Quiet Nights of Quiet Stars." It's interesting to note that she selected 3 pop songs from 1975: Phoebe Snow's "Poetry Man," the Pointer Sisters' "How Long (Betcha Got A Chick On The Side)," and - don't tell vchimpanzee - 10cc's "I'm Not In Love."

On "I'm Gonna Live Till I Die," it's amazing how much she sounds like Sarah Vaughan. She thanks her mom Rita in the liner notes for "opening her ears in so many ways." We thank her mom, too.

 

[Chuck]

Re: Queen Latifah

We thank her mom, too.

I haven't heard it yet, but she is a very talented performer. The album is on my shopping list.

 

[oaktree]

Quiet Nights by Queen Latifa ... beautiful. Same for Poetry Man and in honor of vchimpanzee, with thanks to Blue Hen ... I'm Not in Love. On today.

Great stuff ... as is the Sarah Vaughn similar song. You're right ... good upbringing. Nice going, Mom! Thanks for the heads up, BH!

 

[vchimpanzee]

Re: Queen Latifah

and - don't tell vchimpanzee - 10cc's "I'm Not In Love."

As long as it's not done new age style, I'm fine with it.