Adult Standards KJUL

[vinyltapecd]

So apparently the Las Vegas area actually has a station that plays REAL music: Adult Standards formatted KJUL 104.7...Neil Diamond, Carpenters, Dionne Warwick, Petula Clark, Dan Fogelberg, etc. I live on the other side of the country (in PA) but just happen to be fascinated by how this station still exists today. From what I hear, dirty words like "advertisers" and "demographics" make it virtually impossible for an FM station to play this kind of music anywhere near a market like Las Vegas, especially a mega-powerful station like this one. So would anybody like to share some info/thoughts/opinions on this station...I'm pretty curious as of now so anything would be welcomed.

***Oh by the way I am not 100 years old...I'm 27 and male but just happen to be entirely bored with the blandness, repetition, and lack of real music that exists on the radio today. I just like my music to have catchy tunes and nice instrumental backing...actually I don't even consider it music without these things ;D. So basically, I rarely hear music on the radio in my area these days...I hear tons of "music" instead.

 

[kgbsamfm]

The station is independently owned and operated by the Gentry family. They really aren't impressed or swayed by the critics who, every time the subject of their station comes up, can't stand the fact that they're making a living giving an older audience what they want to hear. You'll see people post stats here and chide the station for their low numbers. The fact is, they have a loyal older audience here and they're completely content to give those folks what they want, the critics be damned. I say more power to them and I hope they keep ignoring the critics and keep on doing what they're doing.

 

[Lazy J]

It used to have a much better signal too. It was originally on 104.3, but I guess the got an offer they couldn't refuse.

 

[Jay F]

It used to have a much better signal too. It was originally on 104.3, but I guess the got an offer they couldn't refuse.

They were #1 or #2 12+ every book when the format was on 104.3. But Beasley couldn't sell it because the demos were too old. Soon after 104.3 flipped formats, Gentry picked it up on 104.7. This was the single best format they could have put on that frequency. Any other format would have no listeners at all because the signal is so weak in LV.

 

[davideduardo]

... especially a mega-powerful station like this one.

Most FMs in that area of the country have the same power as this one, or its equivalent. The difference is that this station's useful coverage area includes about 20,000 persons vs. nearly 1.4 million for the many full power FMs located in the central parts of Clark County... so anyone listening is really going out of their way to do it. However, they average outside the top 25 stations in audience 25-54, the source of most sales. The station bills a very small amount, but that may be enough for what has to be a cheap, cheap format to run and which likely has little or no debt as there was no "purchase price" since the owner put it on the air. This is likely an OK family business, but as the audience ages it will not grow.

 

[vinyltapecd]

They were #1 or #2 12+ every book when the format was on 104.3.

Gee, I guess about 50% of Las Vegas residents are baby boomers, huh? I mean...there couldn't even be a chance that younger people secretly listen to this kind of music without admitting it...could there? Nah, that would be way too sneaky of them. ;D

 

[davideduardo]

They were #1 or #2 12+ every book when the format was on 104.3.

Gee, I guess about 50% of Las Vegas residents are baby boomers, huh? I mean...there couldn't even be a chance that younger people secretly listen to this kind of music without admitting it...could there? Nah, that would be way too sneaky of them. ;D

Baby boomers are not the target for this format as done on the original KJUL. The official kick-off date for Boomers is 1/1/1946, and that means that the oldest boomers grew up on Top 40, not Sinatra and the crooners...

Today, Las Vegas is a PPM market, so there is no "listening and not reporting" as there is no reporting to do.

As I mentioned, there is probably enough "ma and pa" business in ordinary times in Las Vegas to sustain such a station if run frugally. I wonder if in the current economy it can hang in... revenue potential down on one side and the listeners ageing on the other is a bleak scenario. And all this is with a signal that is weak or unlistenable over most of the populated part of the market.

 

[Lazy J]

I noticed that they have a CP to move 104.7 closer to Vegas. Anybody know if they've made the move yet?

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=kjul&x=0&y=0&sr=Y&s=C

That could significantly improve their signal.

 

[davideduardo]

I noticed that they have a CP to move 104.7 closer to Vegas. Anybody know if they've made the move yet?

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=kjul&x=0&y=0&sr=Y&s=C

That could significantly improve their signal.

They are moving in the vicinity of the existing transmitter to a higher location with higher power.

The 64 dbu will barely scrape the NE sections of the metro, and the 60 will just barely cover about 60% of the populated part of the market. 60 dbu coverage will be about 900,000, while the useful (where most listening is reported) contour, the 64 dbu, will cover about 140,000 persons.

The true useful coverage is about 20% inside the radio-locator innermost and red contour (that red contour is the 60 dbu, not good enough at the edges for home and office radios of most kinds). The second radio-locator contour is the 50 dbu, which is even outside the protected contours of a station, meaning even the FCC knows that a station can not be regularly and reliably used in such areas.

Given that this station is format exclusive, it will improve the listening potential for many seniors who would like the station. It won't improve the demos for this station which has predominantly 65+ listenership.

If the math works, then it's a good upgrade. With used equipment and tight controls, the new installation might be made for something in the $250,000 range... but it could be more given the kinds of environmental restrictions in some desert areas. That approaches 75% of a year's gross billings, so the payback is going to be hard as long as they are in the current format. Of course, they can use the current siter or the transmitter as an auxiliary, and may have a generator already that could run the smaller transmitter... all making the project more economical. Personally, I would not want to put old gear on a mountain in the middle of the desert... if the stress does not kill you, driving off the road will.

 

[GeneSavage]

I wonder if anybody has looked at putting a repeater on the SW side of Vegas, & if it would be of any actual benefit to their bottom line?

I also have to wonder: is their over the air signal as open & uncompressed as their web stream? It sounds amazing over the web, but with a rimshot signal I would think that would be a terrible mistake... I'd ALMOST recommend shutting off the stereo pilot to try to squeeze every foot of coverage out of that signal.

The station truly is a "blast from the past," reminding me of the various beautiful music & MOR stations my parents listened to while I was growing up. (I'm 40 now.)

...Truth be told, I doubt I'd be a P1, but it sure is a refreshing change from the many other, noisy radio options. If I were in Vegas, this would be on a preset for sure!

As it is, I've bookmarked the stream.

 

[davideduardo]

I wonder if anybody has looked at putting a repeater on the SW side of Vegas, & if it would be of any actual benefit to their bottom line?

A booster can only be used to fill in shadow areas of a station's theoretical coverage area... sinc eht SW side is not inside the station's theoretical 60 dbu contour, I don't thiink they could get a booster.

 

[jh]

Simulcasting on their AM would help, it has a much better daytime signal over LV than the FM. The night signal on the AM is poor, though.

 

[GeneSavage]

Question is, are they making money with the AM? It could be the AM is paying for the FM.

A stupid question from me: what IS their AM? Calls & format?

 

[jh]

KJUL's AM is 1280-KDOX, 5000 watts days, 28 watts at night. It runs mostly syndicated talk, 0.4 share in last ratings. It couldn't be billing too well, but it's probably very cheap to operate.

 

[musicman3355]

When I was in LV in May, I could barely hear this station. It was full of static. I'm coming back next week so I'll see what I notice...

 

[GeneSavage]

Interesting... not only does KDOX have a number of syndicated personalities that some owners will purchase ratings-unseen, but they also have a live show daily 11am - noon.

While I love what KJUL is doing, from a financial standpoint it might make more sense to simlucast the AMs talk programming! (Especially with that puny night power.)

KXNT of course is the heavy-hitter, with Rush & Hannity 9a to 3p. It looks like KDWN (with Beck, Savage & Miller) splits the leftover conservative talk listeners with KDOX (with Ingraham, Mancow & Dr Laura).

KXNT isn't likely to grab Fox since... well, since they're CBS! KDWN has the higher numbers, but their pattern doesn't look as good on paper during the day as KDOX. KDOX's daytime pattern looks competitive in Vegas with KXNT, but whoo-boy! Yeah, that night pattern really doesn't reach the conservative 'burbs... a death sentence for night numbers, unless you can get them to stream (& then I assume the PPM doesn't register it).

Based on all of this, I don't know that you mess with the AM, & I retract my suggestion that you simulcast on the FM because you're just overlapping north Vegas coverage.

(Is KJUL actually a directional FM, or is that notch from being behind a mountain? If they're truly behind a mountain, I wonder why the FCC WOULDN'T grant them a repeater, even if just in the middle of town? Take a look at http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KJUL&service=FM&status=L&hours=U to see what I'm talking about.)

100,000 watts, but so, so far NE of Vegas... wonder who they're protecting? I wonder if it would be worth it to try reducing power & / or height to be able to move closer to Vegas? I think I'd rather be 5 KW downtown than 100 KW from somewhere north of Moapa Valley... They call themselves a "Vegas" station, but they don't even put a local signal over any of the town.

(Isn't it great that I'm solving all their engineering questions in this post?) ;D

I'd worry about simulcasting the FM with the AM because it would split the numbers & even though you and I know it should be bought based on total listeners, potential advertisers might hear "the #30 & #31 stations" instead of "the #19 station."

Without downgrading that FM & moving it into Vegas proper (which may not even be possible), I don't know WHAT you do different. Seems what they have may be about as good as it gets for both of those signals.

 

[Jay F]

Like everyone is saying the KDOX nighttime signal is poor. I like their night and overnight lineup so I listen on the internet. I am glad they stream (A lot of Ma and Pa stations don't). I especially enjoyed when one of my favorite bloggers Karl Denninger was a guest on Michael Medved's show last week. That was great talk radio.

Same thing with KJUL. I like a lot of the music they play but the signal is very scratchy in the car and impossible to listen to at home. So I listen to their stream sometimes. Another good station with a similar format is EASY 94.5 WEZV/Myrtle Beach SC.

I keep up with and like most mainstream formats but when I listen to radio online I prefer fringe formats such as standards and new age/chill.

 

[davideduardo]

KDWN has the higher numbers, but their pattern doesn't look as good on paper during the day as KDOX. KDOX's daytime pattern looks competitive in Vegas with KXNT, but whoo-boy!

50 kw on 720 gets you about the coverage of 300,000 watts on 1280... with KXNT, also a 50 kw only slightly higher on the band being nearly as good. A rule of thumb is that 2 kw on 550 will cover as well or better than 50 kw on 1600. With 5kw on the high end of the dial, KDOX does not have the saturation signal 720 and 840 have.

Yeah, that night pattern really doesn't reach the conservative 'burbs... a death sentence for night numbers, unless you can get them to stream (& then I assume the PPM doesn't register it).

AM radio gets even lower listening at night than FM radio, and, in general night listening is a fraction of the 6 AM to 7 PM listening. With 28 watts, KDOX simply can't be heard more than a couple of miles.

PPM registers streams, but they are considered separate stations as they are not full generally simulcasts.

Based on all of this, I don't know that you mess with the AM, & I retract my suggestion that you simulcast on the FM because you're just overlapping north Vegas coverage.

Is KJUL actually a directional FM, or is that notch from being behind a mountain? If they're truly behind a mountain, I wonder why the FCC WOULDN'T grant them a repeater, even if just in the middle of town?

There is some blockage, but since the contour they would get without the blockage does not cover most of Las Vegas' urban area, and a booster can only fill in for a tiny NE part of the area, not the bulk of the city.

'd worry about simulcasting the FM with the AM because it would split the numbers & even though you and I know it should be bought based on total listeners, potential advertisers might hear "the #30 & #31 stations" instead of "the #19 station."

100% simulcast stations can opt to have the nubmers combined and listed as a sum.