Adventures in Retail

[SUPERCASTER]

HD radios such as the BA HD Receptor have begun showing up in second hand stores, and on eBay. It seems the "HD radio revolution" has fizzled.

 

[MasterTheseus]

HD radios such as the BA HD Receptor have begun showing up in second hand stores, and on eBay. It seems the "HD radio revolution" has fizzled.

Or they are making room for better performing radios. That model was discontinued, where else would you expect these radios to show up?

 

[SUPERCASTER]

HD radios such as the BA HD Receptor have begun showing up in second hand stores, and on eBay. It seems the "HD radio revolution" has fizzled.

Or they are making room for better performing radios. That model was discontinued, where else would you expect these radios to show up?

I expect most people plan to keep the expensive new radios that they buy for more then a year before they are obsolete.

 

[MasterTheseus]

HD radios such as the BA HD Receptor have begun showing up in second hand stores, and on eBay. It seems the "HD radio revolution" has fizzled.

Or they are making room for better performing radios. That model was discontinued, where else would you expect these radios to show up?

I expect most people plan to keep the expensive new radios that they buy for more then a year before they are obsolete.

Well, I hate to break it to you Supercaster, but welcome to the age of software driven radio! As radios become more software based you will see that happen. Unfortunately though that happens with many products. There was a company that made a SyQuest removable hard drive disks. A great idea! 120MB (back when that was a good amount of storage.) removable hard disk that didn't detereorate. . Spent couple hundred and soon after they no longer made the disks. . . So sad.

I really do feel sorry for those that can't enjoy their radios though. I have never believed in creating a trendy "disposable" product. If it is to be sold it should perform well for as long as we can possibly make it do so. That doesn't take into account "advancements" in technology.

That is why I am happy to work for a company that is still repairing radios that are over 15 years old!

 

[SUPERCASTER]

HD radios such as the BA HD Receptor have begun showing up in second hand stores, and on eBay. It seems the "HD radio revolution" has fizzled.

Or they are making room for better performing radios. That model was discontinued, where else would you expect these radios to show up?

I expect most people plan to keep the expensive new radios that they buy for more then a year before they are obsolete.

Well, I hate to break it to you Supercaster, but welcome to the age of software driven radio! As radios become more software based you will see that happen. Unfortunately though that happens with many products. There was a company that made a SyQuest removable hard drive disks. A great idea! 120MB (back when that was a good amount of storage.) removable hard disk that didn't detereorate. . Spent couple hundred and soon after they no longer made the disks. . . So sad.

I really do feel sorry for those that can't enjoy their radios though. I have never believed in creating a trendy "disposable" product. If it is to be sold it should perform well for as long as we can possibly make it do so. That doesn't take into account "advancements" in technology.

That is why I am happy to work for a company that is still repairing radios that are over 15 years old!

I hate to break it to you MasterTheseus, but properly designed software driven radios are, by definition, software upgradeable so the hardware doesn't have to be replaced yearly every time there is a slight change in modulation details.
I know this is all news to you, but software defined radios have been around for years before HD radio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_radio

 

[MasterTheseus]

HD radios such as the BA HD Receptor have begun showing up in second hand stores, and on eBay. It seems the "HD radio revolution" has fizzled.

Or they are making room for better performing radios. That model was discontinued, where else would you expect these radios to show up?

I expect most people plan to keep the expensive new radios that they buy for more then a year before they are obsolete.

Well, I hate to break it to you Supercaster, but welcome to the age of software driven radio! As radios become more software based you will see that happen. Unfortunately though that happens with many products. There was a company that made a SyQuest removable hard drive disks. A great idea! 120MB (back when that was a good amount of storage.) removable hard disk that didn't detereorate. . Spent couple hundred and soon after they no longer made the disks. . . So sad.

I really do feel sorry for those that can't enjoy their radios though. I have never believed in creating a trendy "disposable" product. If it is to be sold it should perform well for as long as we can possibly make it do so. That doesn't take into account "advancements" in technology.

That is why I am happy to work for a company that is still repairing radios that are over 15 years old!

I hate to break it to you MasterTheseus, but properly designed software driven radios are, by definition, software upgradeable so the hardware doesn't have to be replaced yearly every time there is a slight change in modulation details.
I know this is all news to you, but software defined radios have been around for years before HD radio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_radio

I am well aware that software radios have been around for a while. Although I am not overly technical, I do know a few things.

Software will still only make up slightly for new hardware. Let's use HD Radio as an example. I can make any one of our model HD Radios user upgradeable. Heck, I could sell you, the customer a small tool that would allow you to do so on your existing radio. Those software upgrades may fix things like a bug in the software, perhaps add a few software based features, but the software doesn't fix everything! It won't program a serial number in to the HD Radio module allowing you access to "conditional access" features. That has to be done by hardware. It won't adjust the FM RF Alignment to improve reception, and it won't add many of the other hardware features that would still make your radio obsolete.

When the store and record function becomes available, it will require hardware and software changes.

I don't argue against making a radio upgradeable for software, in fact IN encourage it, but software is only part of the story.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

HD radios such as the BA HD Receptor have begun showing up in second hand stores, and on eBay. It seems the "HD radio revolution" has fizzled.

Or they are making room for better performing radios. That model was discontinued, where else would you expect these radios to show up?

I expect most people plan to keep the expensive new radios that they buy for more then a year before they are obsolete.

Well, I hate to break it to you Supercaster, but welcome to the age of software driven radio! As radios become more software based you will see that happen. Unfortunately though that happens with many products. There was a company that made a SyQuest removable hard drive disks. A great idea! 120MB (back when that was a good amount of storage.) removable hard disk that didn't detereorate. . Spent couple hundred and soon after they no longer made the disks. . . So sad.

I really do feel sorry for those that can't enjoy their radios though. I have never believed in creating a trendy "disposable" product. If it is to be sold it should perform well for as long as we can possibly make it do so. That doesn't take into account "advancements" in technology.

That is why I am happy to work for a company that is still repairing radios that are over 15 years old!

I hate to break it to you MasterTheseus, but properly designed software driven radios are, by definition, software upgradeable so the hardware doesn't have to be replaced yearly every time there is a slight change in modulation details.
I know this is all news to you, but software defined radios have been around for years before HD radio.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_radio

I am well aware that software radios have been around for a while. Although I am not overly technical, I do know a few things.

Software will still only make up slightly for new hardware. Let's use HD Radio as an example. I can make any one of our model HD Radios user upgradeable. Heck, I could sell you, the customer a small tool that would allow you to do so on your existing radio. Those software upgrades may fix things like a bug in the software, perhaps add a few software based features, but the software doesn't fix everything! It won't program a serial number in to the HD Radio module allowing you access to "conditional access" features. That has to be done by hardware. It won't adjust the FM RF Alignment to improve reception, and it won't add many of the other hardware features that would still make your radio obsolete.

When the store and record function becomes available, it will require hardware and software changes.

I don't argue against making a radio upgradeable for software, in fact IN encourage it, but software is only part of the story.

So you are saying HD radio purchasers should expect to continually replace HD radios to update their HD radios frequently for the foreseeable future.
What a great benefit and sales pitch. Keeps them coming back for more!
The expensive HD radio you buy today will be obsolete in about a year, so you can just run out and buy another to replace it.
WOW! The public should love that.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Colorado Springs retail report (I'm here
on vacation): Two HD radios on display at Sharper Image. NO HD reception, less than 10 miles from the towers, which are on the side of a mountain. If the store was facing the other way, you could see the towers from the store.

I am wondering - does reflection / multipath destroy the integrity of the digital sidebands, making decode difficult?

 

[MasterTheseus]

So you are saying HD radio purchasers should expect to continually replace HD radios to update their HD radios frequently for the foreseeable future.
What a great benefit and sales pitch. Keeps them coming back for more!
The expensive HD radio you buy today will be obsolete in about a year, so you can just run out and buy another to replace it.
WOW! The public should love that.

So once again you expound something way out of reasonable proportion. It isn't that different from say a standard car radio. People can choose now from a standard AM/FM/CD head unit for about $70. But to get MP3 and a set of pre-amped outs they go up to $129. Add bluetooth? Another $50. Sattelite, $199.

But these units don't change because AM/FM/CD and other features have changes little in the last 10 years. HD Radio is still new and is adding new features such as conditional access, on-demand-audio, traffic data, and more. All these additions enhance the offering and would require a hardware upgrade. Do you HAVE TO BUY THE UPGRADED UNITS? No. But if you wish to take advantage of the additional features YES! None of these new features will make your current HD Radio work any less than it does now.

If you want DVD capability you can't simply upgrade the firmware in your CD-ROM, you have to buy a DVD with the lense capable of reading the scheme of DVD disks. User software upgrades would only allow us to update the codecs, some feature settings, and othe relevant updates but will never provide them the ability to make up for new hardware, and never has!

You seem to be an educated person but strangely continue to make calculated uneducated statements to discredit and distract people. You are pretty good at it, but that won't change the facts.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Colorado Springs retail report (I'm here
on vacation): Two HD radios on display at Sharper Image. NO HD reception, less than 10 miles from the towers, which are on the side of a mountain. If the store was facing the other way, you could see the towers from the store.

I am wondering - does reflection / multipath destroy the integrity of the digital sidebands, making decode difficult?

Yes.
Multiple signal paths (delay) jumbles the bitstream.
So much for the myth of HD radio's multipath and interference immunity. Another HD deception goes up in smoke.

 

[dbdigital]

Getting back to the retail aspect of HD Radio, here's an interesting article on why Internet radio is growing faster than HD Radio.

http://www.emarketer.com/Article.aspx?id=1005243&src=article1_home

This quote is especially interesting:

"The value proposition for HD radio is less clear than with Internet radio, which gave people something they didn't have before — a larger range of music types and a greater quantity of music overall," eMarketer's Mr. Verna said.

"HD is a quality play, which is tough," he said. "Look at MP3s and SACD and other high quality disc formats: People are not clamoring for better-sounding radio, just as they weren't clamoring for better-sounding CDs. As a result, HD is growing more slowly than Internet radio."

So, according to this statement, trying to sell HD Radio because of its audio quality is a loser as far as the public is concerned. Value is the key.

db

 

[arnoldevns]

I was in my local Fry's store this week and thought I'd check out the HD display again. It has been moved to the back of an aisle in an area with far less floor traffic than it had been previously. They've added a new model to the display, but overall this is clearly not a priority for them. Much to my frustration, the display again did not allow me to actually listen to a true HD program. The antenna wasn't set up to get FM stations well and all of AM was static. Very pathetic.

 

[MasterTheseus]

Getting back to the retail aspect of HD Radio, here's an interesting article on why Internet radio is growing faster than HD Radio.

http://www.emarketer.com/Article.aspx?id=1005243&src=article1_home

This quote is especially interesting:

"The value proposition for HD radio is less clear than with Internet radio, which gave people something they didn't have before — a larger range of music types and a greater quantity of music overall," eMarketer's Mr. Verna said.

"HD is a quality play, which is tough," he said. "Look at MP3s and SACD and other high quality disc formats: People are not clamoring for better-sounding radio, just as they weren't clamoring for better-sounding CDs. As a result, HD is growing more slowly than Internet radio."

So, according to this statement, trying to sell HD Radio because of its audio quality is a loser as far as the public is concerned. Value is the key.

db

I have long believed that the audio quality improvement was not the benefit of HD Radio. I believe, and will continue to believe that the real benefit to HD Radio is the multicasting.

My only problem with that not enough broadcasters are doing enough of their job to get it right. If we really provided content I believe that HD Radio would become sucessful. Would it happen overnight? No, but it would continue to grow as more people caught on.

We have seen much more interest in Wi-fi (Internet) Radio. The greatest example of this was this weekend when I took our prototype to a party and played it. . . At first they asked why it sounded so crappy, then I told them it was an internet radio and they immediately cared more about how many stations they could hear and how to choose a good station.

Addmitedly, when we did get a higher bit stream the quality improved and dazzled, but . . . They are willing to sacrafice quality sound for content.

 

[Chuck]

They are willing to sacrafice quality sound for content.

You are absolutely correct. For the past couple of weeks I've been carrying around a Nokia N800 tablet computer that neatly fits in your shirt pocket. It finds Internet hot spots with ease, and streams audio very nicely. Everyone I've shown it to goes 'Wow!" when they see it.

Does it sound as good as HD Radio? Not usually, but it can. That depends on the web stream. But nobody seems to care about how it sounds. The "wow" factor of walking around listening effortlessly to some station on the other side of the world more than makes up for it.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much "wow" factor to HD. At least not now.

 

[MasterTheseus]

They are willing to sacrafice quality sound for content.

You are absolutely correct. For the past couple of weeks I've been carrying around a Nokia N800 tablet computer that neatly fits in your shirt pocket. It finds Internet hot spots with ease, and streams audio very nicely. Everyone I've shown it to goes 'Wow!" when they see it.

Does it sound as good as HD Radio? Not usually, but it can. That depends on the web stream. But nobody seems to care about how it sounds. The "wow" factor of walking around listening effortlessly to some station on the other side of the world more than makes up for it.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much "wow" factor to HD. At least not now.

I agree. Here is an example of how something with one name can mean little to people.

We intorduced a radio. H201. It is a waterproof radio capable of being up to 1 meter underwater for up to 30 min. and still function. (We have had it up to 4 hours). It has a retail price of $99. When marketed as a shower radio people said they would not buy it, it was too expensive. As soon as we took away the shower radio in the description and instead called it a waterproof portable radio, flying of the shelves at $99.

Sometimes it is simply the name and the idea behind it. Radio, unless it has another buzz word (i.e. Internet, Wi-fi, etc.) that relates to consumers it doesn't have much promise. Strangely HD isn't working as well for them as we would have thought.

 

[Chuck]

Strangely HD isn't working as well for them as we would have thought.

I was puzzled when they took that name. It seemed to me that something straight forward like "Digital Radio" would clearly define what it is, and have all the buzz of anything digital.

Maybe they hired the same ad agency that brought us "New Coke."

 

[semoochie]

Unfortunately, that's what they've called digitally TUNED radios for over a quarter of a century!

 

[Chuck]

Unfortunately, that's what they've called digitally TUNED radios for over a quarter of a century!

That's probably why I didn't have a career in advertising......

 

[MasterTheseus]

Unfortunately, that's what they've called digitally TUNED radios for over a quarter of a century!

Yes! I have people that are buying our radios with PLL Synthesized Digital Tuning thinking it is an HD Radio. Now I have one guy that was complaining, don't remember where, but he says it is either "An analog analog, a digital analog, or a digital digital."

I think it is kind of funny, but only a little.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Yes! I have people that are buying our radios with PLL Synthesized Digital Tuning thinking it is an HD Radio. Now I have one guy that was complaining, don't remember where, but he says it is either "An analog analog, a digital analog, or a digital digital."

I think it is kind of funny, but only a little.

The ignorance of American consumers never ceases to amaze me. It has morphed quality 70's audio gear into trendy looking junk with remote controls and no real performance. That - more than anything else - the fact that consumers are satified with cheap junky audio systems that sound like cr@p - is going to doom HD more effectively than IBUZZ every would. HD radio's only hope at this point is to have the FCC mandate the chipset in all radios, or a shutdown of analog broadcasting. Otherwise, 99% of the public is going to vote with their pocketbook for the cheapest radio possible and not buy HD radios.

Had HD radio happened in the audiophile era of the late 60's and early 70's - it would have been embraced quickly and enthusiastically by people who loved good sound. Now - it is going to be "gimme the HD-2 channels free of charge and don't make me spend a dime more for the iPod, and I'll listen. Maybe. If I get bored of the songs on my iPod.