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AGC - Compressor
- Thread starter ASchuelke
- Start date
ASchuelke said:
In my opinion, the best-sounding processing systems use a concept similar to a series of ever-smaller funnels...wide where the goodies go in and small where they come out.
To that end, I prefer a relatively open ratio for the initial AGC stage (2:1 to maybe 5:1, max), to unobtrusively deal with the very wide range of control which is usually required to manage raw audio. Then each successive stage uses a tighter ratio, with faster release, over a narrower control range than the one before it.
However... we're talking processing here... In the end, it's all a matter of taste, based upon experience and knowledge of the equipment you are working with.
But no, I still don't like the idea of infinity-to-one at the outset, unless you want to hear it, of course.
Kind Regards,
David
What does the entire chain look like?
Chain structure will dictate this to some degree....
Is the AGC immediately feeding the compression stage / box, or does it have to protect an STL or digital link?
What is the next stage? Does it work best in a sweet spot, or is it forgiving of a wider range at it's input?
David is right - each stage should have a limited role, and be progressively "tighter". The limiter (last stage) should be used to control how much you feed to the final clipper.
Is the AGC immediately feeding the compression stage / box, or does it have to protect an STL or digital link?
What is the next stage? Does it work best in a sweet spot, or is it forgiving of a wider range at it's input?
David is right - each stage should have a limited role, and be progressively "tighter". The limiter (last stage) should be used to control how much you feed to the final clipper.
The chain (currently) is the console, into a DBX compressor (266XL I believe), into an Audio Prism, into the streaming encoder.
I was simply using the Prism ... but it seemed like levels and density were ALL OVER THE PLACE... so I figured something in front of the Prism would help -- but it still sure seems sloppy.
All I'm looking to accomplish is for everything to basically be at the same EQ. I'm having a hard time finding something that not only lowers excessive bass & treble, but also BOOSTS it when needed. I can do this manually in my car stereo, for example ... I can play a song from the mid 80's that doesn't have much bass, but by turning the bass up, it sounds just as good as a newer song with the bass down.
I play songs of varying vintages. I'm looking to re-EQ on the fly. Even Breakaway isn't doing what I want to accomplish.
I was simply using the Prism ... but it seemed like levels and density were ALL OVER THE PLACE... so I figured something in front of the Prism would help -- but it still sure seems sloppy.
All I'm looking to accomplish is for everything to basically be at the same EQ. I'm having a hard time finding something that not only lowers excessive bass & treble, but also BOOSTS it when needed. I can do this manually in my car stereo, for example ... I can play a song from the mid 80's that doesn't have much bass, but by turning the bass up, it sounds just as good as a newer song with the bass down.
I play songs of varying vintages. I'm looking to re-EQ on the fly. Even Breakaway isn't doing what I want to accomplish.
If one of the more aggressive presets in Breakaway isn't doing it, such as French Kiss, I don't know what you're doing wrong. There should be plenty of re-EQing if you turn up the range control on Breakaway.
Yes, the Prism needs something in front of it to keep it in the sweet spot. A Compellor or Orban 464 will do the trick nicely. Set the density to 9 o'clock and the gate to your taste and there should be plenty of re-EQ.
Nothing will make everything sound the same. There is only so much bass that can be added or subtracted before things start to sound like crap. If an old song is missing highs, there's only so much a processor can bring up the levels. It can enhance it, sweeten it, but not re-master it!
Is the stream online now where we can take a listen to it?
Yes, the Prism needs something in front of it to keep it in the sweet spot. A Compellor or Orban 464 will do the trick nicely. Set the density to 9 o'clock and the gate to your taste and there should be plenty of re-EQ.
Nothing will make everything sound the same. There is only so much bass that can be added or subtracted before things start to sound like crap. If an old song is missing highs, there's only so much a processor can bring up the levels. It can enhance it, sweeten it, but not re-master it!
Is the stream online now where we can take a listen to it?
I used to use a dbx in my streaming chain at 4:1. It did a pretty good job.
As we get more and more digital processors, I am using the outputs of them to feed the streams.
As we get more and more digital processors, I am using the outputs of them to feed the streams.
I will try French Kiss again -- the problem with Breakaway is that it seems excessively bright, and unfortunately there aren't any mix controls. That's why I like the Prism because of the ability to adjust the mix.
Here's the stream:
http://www.wrjqradio.com
I forgot to mention one portion of the airchain: Current airchain is console into DBX, then Prism, then Breakaway Live ("Microphone" preset -- very flat preset -- basically there as a final limiter/clipper)
I'm trying to sound like a particular station because I remember it being VERY dead on in its consistency.
Their chain was a Marti CLH-40 into an Audio Prism.
Maybe I'm over-analyzing things ... but everything I remember about the station is that it had a sound that was never too bright, never too dull.
Here's the stream:
http://www.wrjqradio.com
I forgot to mention one portion of the airchain: Current airchain is console into DBX, then Prism, then Breakaway Live ("Microphone" preset -- very flat preset -- basically there as a final limiter/clipper)
I'm trying to sound like a particular station because I remember it being VERY dead on in its consistency.
Their chain was a Marti CLH-40 into an Audio Prism.
Maybe I'm over-analyzing things ... but everything I remember about the station is that it had a sound that was never too bright, never too dull.
Some may disagree with me here, but I would experiment with removing everything in front of Breakaway and then tweak Breakaway. I think that this chain is too much: dbx --> prism --> breakaway live.
ChiefOperator said:
I agree with that... Eliminates 2 points of failure along the way.
You may be right. Damn the luck -- I finally get my hands on a Prism, the piece of equipment I knew they were using, thinking my 5 years of tweaking have finally come to an end, and I'm back to square one.
Will see what happens when I bypass the first two.
Regarding the Breakaway output mix: I forgot that if I run BA Live in "speakers mode," I get some parametric EQ to play with (however this EQ is AFTER the final stage, which isn't ideal, but probably as close as I'll get.) "French Kiss" has been mentioned as a preset to try... any others?
Also, if I want to get rid of the excessive highs, how wide should my EQ be (in octaves) -- I'll be honest, I'm clueless when it comes to that parametric EQ stuff. Give me a hardware EQ with sliders, and I'm fine. I'm a programmer, not an engineer.
Will see what happens when I bypass the first two.
Regarding the Breakaway output mix: I forgot that if I run BA Live in "speakers mode," I get some parametric EQ to play with (however this EQ is AFTER the final stage, which isn't ideal, but probably as close as I'll get.) "French Kiss" has been mentioned as a preset to try... any others?
Also, if I want to get rid of the excessive highs, how wide should my EQ be (in octaves) -- I'll be honest, I'm clueless when it comes to that parametric EQ stuff. Give me a hardware EQ with sliders, and I'm fine. I'm a programmer, not an engineer.
I'm reproducing the sound of WLS and WCFL in the mid 70s with French Kiss, all 3 "sliders" at about 30%.
Then I run the audio through a wideband compressor, an ART PRO VLA in 2 stages, one fast, one slow.
The reverb doesn't go through the ART, and mixes in after.
It's extremely consistent over all types of audio. I play music from 1925 to the present.
On the community board, there is a similar dicussion under
"Rangemater sound updater"..I have posted there a link to podcasts of AM audio airchecks with this combination.
It sounds like it's a thousand feet tall, impossibly huge.....which is the signature sound I'm looking for.
I tell more about the adjustments there.
Trust Breakaway to do the tough multi band work first, then play with other "sound modifiers" as they
please your ear.
Then I run the audio through a wideband compressor, an ART PRO VLA in 2 stages, one fast, one slow.
The reverb doesn't go through the ART, and mixes in after.
It's extremely consistent over all types of audio. I play music from 1925 to the present.
On the community board, there is a similar dicussion under
"Rangemater sound updater"..I have posted there a link to podcasts of AM audio airchecks with this combination.
It sounds like it's a thousand feet tall, impossibly huge.....which is the signature sound I'm looking for.
I tell more about the adjustments there.
Trust Breakaway to do the tough multi band work first, then play with other "sound modifiers" as they
please your ear.
Remember that if you put other things after Breakaway, you're defeating the best part of the package, which is the very clean clipper. If you stick a box after it, all of your tightly controlled peaks are gone. It doesn't matter much on your part 15, but I'll bet you're doing close to 175% positive modulation with the Art box after Breakaway. You should flip them the other way around, let the Art color the audio and then Breakaway does the peak control afterwards.
WNTIRadio said:
If I didn't have the reserve to fly over 100% modulation, it would probably sound better held tight to 100%, but it sits
right there at 150% most of the time and it's so beautiful to watch the envelope open up from 100 to 150 on an oscilliscope.
Did you hear the airchex?
The automation, library and Breakaway Broadcast are on one computer which is remote located, the ART and xmtr are together.
It would be a trick to get the ART inserted "into the line" internally on a laptop.
The ART is very very clean, but flummoxed by complex audio.
If they made a multiband version, it would be a very competetive player.
But even then, I'm only happy with its results when I'm using the "two pass" process, and without Breakaway first, it's pretty lackluster.
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