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Agencies expecting production for FREE????

R

radiodork1

Guest
There has been a problem I've been dealing with, certain ad agencies expecting us to produce their commercial for free. Most, probably 75% to 80%, of the agencies that we deal with are not a problem, they supply a fully produced, airable, commecial. There are a few "smaller agencies" in my market that want us to produce their commecial. They (the agencies) claim that "all the other stations don't have a problem with it" and when I try to invoice them for my work they threaten to "cancel the buy", which usually ends up with me in the GM's office. The funny thing is being in the GM's office many time for this issue work out well for me. I convinced my GM the institure a rule/policy; if an agency take the 15% discount they must provide a fully produced airable commercial, if they do not they can either not take the 15% discount or pay a product fee. Does anyone else expience this problem and if you do how do you handle it.
 
I'm in a Top 50 market. If an agency sends copy to produce, you produce it like
you would for a direct client. No charge. However, if they want a copy of the spot for other
stations in the market, they should pay the station and/or producer-talent a pre-determined
(by the station) fee. Some GM's will take one up the colon, rather than charge an agency for production, though.

Why an agency, even a small one, would want different sounding spots, for a particular client, on different stations is beyon stupid. Bad marketing. Not helping "frequency".

Imagine if the GEICO Gecko had an Australian accent on station A, and a French accent on station B.

Most small agencies are former clueless radio sales reps who hang out a shingle, or print people with no electronic ad experience. (OK, there might be a FEW decent ones.)
 
surfdude said:
If an agency sends copy to produce, you produce it like
you would for a direct client. No charge. However, if they want a copy of the spot for other
stations in the market, they should pay the station and/or producer-talent a pre-determined
(by the station) fee.
Click to expand...

Exactly how it was at every station I worked at except one, and that GM was a real ******nozzle.
 
radiodork1 said:
There has been a problem I've been dealing with, certain ad agencies expecting us to produce their commercial for free. Most, probably 75% to 80%, of the agencies that we deal with are not a problem, they supply a fully produced, airable, commecial. There are a few "smaller agencies" in my market that want us to produce their commecial. They (the agencies) claim that "all the other stations don't have a problem with it" and when I try to invoice them for my work they threaten to "cancel the buy", which usually ends up with me in the GM's office. The funny thing is being in the GM's office many time for this issue work out well for me. I convinced my GM the institure a rule/policy; if an agency take the 15% discount they must provide a fully produced airable commercial, if they do not they can either not take the 15% discount or pay a product fee. Does anyone else expience this problem and if you do how do you handle it.
Click to expand...


Does the spot your producing air on your station(s)? If so, that production is free. However, if the client wants the spot to go out of house to another station in the market, then they must pay.

In my market the agency/client is invoiced for the voice talent(s) as well as the producer. All get paid.
 
Here, if they request a specific voice...Even if it is in-house only, there is a talent fee. The talent fee is determined by the talent and is not regulated by the company.

If a client would like a spot to air on another station, they must pay a talent fee, production fee and studio fee. Again, there are no set rates. There are recommended rates...Especially for jocks...But nothing is set in stone. We normally only charge the studio fee if we here the words "Now, now, now!!!"

Without paying extra, they may request a certain voice type and send us their copy and instructions. The spot can only run in-house. Anything more than that costs extra.
 
Emmett said:
Here, if they request a specific voice...Even if it is in-house only, there is a talent fee. The talent fee is determined by the talent and is not regulated by the company.

If a client would like a spot to air on another station, they must pay a talent fee, production fee and studio fee. Again, there are no set rates. There are recommended rates...Especially for jocks...But nothing is set in stone. We normally only charge the studio fee if we here the words "Now, now, now!!!"

Without paying extra, they may request a certain voice type and send us their copy and instructions. The spot can only run in-house. Anything more than that costs extra.
Click to expand...

Emmett, I LOVE that! What company/market? I wanna work there!
 
radiodork1 said:
There has been a problem I've been dealing with, certain ad agencies expecting us to produce their commercial for free.
Click to expand...

A good friend always told me, "don't do anything for free. Once you do it for free, you have set the price for your future work."

Even with non-profits, PSA, etc, I always charge something, and send them an invoice showing my standard rate, with a credit for non-profit work. I also ask as part of the deal that the agency/NPO send a thank you letter.
 
Emmett said:
Without paying extra, they may request a certain voice type and send us their copy and instructions. The spot can only run in-house. Anything more than that costs extra.
Click to expand...
Just curious...a recurring client that wants "the same person as last time" would surely not get a talent fee?

My experience is in tiny markets, but everyone from the board ops to sales people to the owner himself does production - at their regular hourly rate. No additional invoicing no matter where the spot is headed.
 
I agree wholeheartedly with the statement about most small agencies being former clueless salespeople..I dealt with more than a few of them ,when I worked as a copywriter in the Altoona Pa. market. They expect voice talent for free. I remember one guy who had a so -called agency..He didn't even have a broadcasting background....claimed he was a former Hollywood stuntman who once saved John wayne's life....how messed up is that ?
 
2MANYHATS said:
claimed he was a former Hollywood stuntman who once saved John wayne's life
Click to expand...

Saved him from what, entering radio? ::)

Gotta think about the jocks, too. The talent will step up when we need them most IF they know we're working to take care of them as well. If not, it's hard for them not to just "go through the motions" knowing they'll get nothing additional for their efforts. And IMHO, it's reprehensible to hear YOUR voice on the competition's stations WITHOUT additional compensation (unless you donate your services to non-profits like the United Way, but make sure you're acknowledged for it... the extra exposure AT TIMES is worth the OCCASIONAL freebie, IMHO).
 
In my experience (decades, the spectrum of mkt size), policy has always been: My salary covers work done for those who pay the salary. "Work done" includes any creative services which would otherwise cost the client (direct or agency) considerably to have provided by a creative shop. Work is for purposes exclusive to the property which pays the salary, as incentive value to the client buying air over said property.

Simultaneous to any consideration of work travelling beyond the property, an agreement is implied between client and creative, amenable to both parties, and apart from the property of employment.

Feel free to insert the word "only" generously into the above.

If that's not the default notion at your station, you might have to be proactive. I can't think of any production director job that doesn't have some sort of job description for reference to job parameters, which in all likelihood does not include performing for anyone else besides the employer.

McDonald's does not require employees to flip burgers free for BK.
 
Bottom line (and I have done both a ton of in station and freelance work in medium and major market)

If an agency wants you to do a spot for YOUR station, you do it just as you would for any customer.

BUT.......if that spot ends up going ANYWHERE OUTSIDE OF YOUR OWN STATION, YOU DEMAND A TALENT/PRODUCTION FEE.

If the spot is done as part of your job, the station owns the copyright on it. But if it goes beyond that, YOU own the copyright on the talent and you deserve to be paid.
 
like many other posts here, at our station that's part of the job. jocks voice spots. and as long as the client/agency is buying time on our stations, production is free. If that spot were to air on any other station (except for other stations in our group) there would be a talent fee. that fee is based on the voice talent's own rate sheet. I'm debating whether to include copywriting and production fees... cause after all if i wrote the spot and produced it i should also be compensated. but that's a battle for another day.
 
Jim said:
like many other posts here, at our station that's part of the job. jocks voice spots. and as long as the client/agency is buying time on our stations, production is free. If that spot were to air on any other station (except for other stations in our group) there would be a talent fee. that fee is based on the voice talent's own rate sheet. I'm debating whether to include copywriting and production fees... cause after all if i wrote the spot and produced it i should also be compensated. but that's a battle for another day.
Click to expand...


If a talent inside the building is requested, then that talent should be compensated. SHOULD is the key word here. I've worked in markets where they have, and have not, been compensated when requested for an in-group spot.

Yes, if you write/produce, then you should be compensated should a spot go out of house. Your a "talent" as well as the VO.
 
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