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Air America Goes Belly-Up
- Thread starter Mark Giardina
- Start date
KB was coming in tonight in the Carolinas and I heard the host talking about it. He said the problem wasn't liberal talk but Air America's business model. He promised to say more later in the hour. I often miss a few things when the signal fades.
So what will the new format be at WWKB 1520? Please, I hope they don't go back to business radio ugh.
So what will the new format be at WWKB 1520? Please, I hope they don't go back to business radio ugh.
WWKB doesn't have anyone from AA on it's line-up to begin with does it? Press, Miller, and Schultz are all Dial Global, Rhodes is Nova M I think, Marshall is self-syndicated, Colmes is from Fox, and Joey Reynolds is from WOR. They may have aired some AA programs on the weekends, I suspect those will be replaced by either some brokered program or more infomercials selling colon blow products.
Whoops my bad, thanks for setting me straight!
A good point was made about liberal/progressive talk radio on another message board: the people who lean to the left most likely get their information and entertainment from PBS and by reading.They don't need to re-hash the same old same old over and over again with shouty (I'm making up that word and sticking to it) hosts who have one point of view and harp at it over and over, day in and day out. Many of the right wing fanatics, on the other hand, feel disenfranchised (although many of them have no idea what that word means) and need to rally behind personalities who are able to talk to them at their own level...and since it's easier to dumb down than smarten up, conservative radio wins out.
I think this explanation has a certain amount of logical sense to it, but since I am a died-in-the-wool liberal I may be a bit biased toward it.
I think this explanation has a certain amount of logical sense to it, but since I am a died-in-the-wool liberal I may be a bit biased toward it.
Checking in from beautiful Midway, Chicago. Rhodes is syndicated by Premier. As to the "left-right, balls-no-balls" spin. Please, give it up. There are plenty of former active Marines, Navy, US Coast Guard, Army and Air Force in the ranks of the Democratic party, just as there are in the Republican party.
Some suggest Air America failed because the business model wasn't good. Only part of the reason. IMHO, AA failed because the programming, with the exception of a few bright spots, wasn't all that entertaining. I could be wrong, but it appears broadcasters do radio best. Ideology alone doesn't make a successful talk show host or network. I'd concur with the opinion that a significant number of Democrats or Liberals get their information from books, newspapers, on-line and NPR, foregoing the sturm and drang that often is associated with talk radio in general. After a while, all of it becomes tiring. Ponderous, effin ponderous. Getting my "A" pass ready for the Southwest cattle call, boarding soon.
Some suggest Air America failed because the business model wasn't good. Only part of the reason. IMHO, AA failed because the programming, with the exception of a few bright spots, wasn't all that entertaining. I could be wrong, but it appears broadcasters do radio best. Ideology alone doesn't make a successful talk show host or network. I'd concur with the opinion that a significant number of Democrats or Liberals get their information from books, newspapers, on-line and NPR, foregoing the sturm and drang that often is associated with talk radio in general. After a while, all of it becomes tiring. Ponderous, effin ponderous. Getting my "A" pass ready for the Southwest cattle call, boarding soon.
B
Bob1370
Guest
Air America's biggest problem was that its passion far exceeded its professionalism, both on the air and behind the scenes.
A few people who were genuinely talented star broadcasters were on their schedule at some point in their nearly six year existence--Al Franken, Randi Rhodes, Lionel and Rachel Maddow come to mind. But Rhodes got fired due to an overblown incident in a San Francisco personal appearance, soon to find her way to another syndicator and a brighter future. Al Franken went to the United States Senate. Lionel came on board too late to pull a substantial number of clearances from stations to pull a struggling network out of the mud. And Rachel Maddow, who hung in there the longest, clearly outclassed everyone else remaining on the roster and is now a star of cable TV. I don't mean to disparage the others I didn't mention; some of them in time might have grown into compelling radio personalities. But some were hopeless and so many of them, even those who in time might have developed into outstanding hosts, came to the table with little or no experience in what makes a good talk show work. The network failed, when it had the chance, to recruit other experienced, talented broadcasters who would have fit in well and added to the network's strengths, like Ed Schultz, Jay Diamond, Joe Madison, Jay Marvin or Stephanie Miller. Add to that some senior administrative, marketing, programming and technical people who were long on passion but very short on practical experience, and you had an operation which resembled a college radio station (and not in a good way).
Hey, I don't claim to know everything about it myself, who does? I'm still learning new things about what works and what doesn't, like everyone in this business. But at least those of use who've been doing it a while have a clue as to what needs to be done to keep things going and keep their stations in the game. And we sharpen our skills as we go along. Air America lacked that growth on just about every level you can imagine, and never seemed to get its act fully together.
In the end, it shouldn't be a surprise that it failed--because it's more surprising that it survived for a half dozen years, while most similarly jerry-built broadcast organizations usually fail far sooner. That speaks, not to the failure of progressive radio, but to the fact that a demand for it exists which was strong enough to keep a VERY poorly run organization afloat far beyond the time when most such organizations normally sink to the bottom. A well run, professional organization with depth of talent top to bottom still has a tremendous opportunity to capture a large and loyal audience of people tired of the same old, same old from commercial talk radio. Air America proved that much despite its amateurish incompetence. It'll be interesting to see if anyone with a real understanding of the business of radio is sharp enough and gutsy enough to give it a try.
A few people who were genuinely talented star broadcasters were on their schedule at some point in their nearly six year existence--Al Franken, Randi Rhodes, Lionel and Rachel Maddow come to mind. But Rhodes got fired due to an overblown incident in a San Francisco personal appearance, soon to find her way to another syndicator and a brighter future. Al Franken went to the United States Senate. Lionel came on board too late to pull a substantial number of clearances from stations to pull a struggling network out of the mud. And Rachel Maddow, who hung in there the longest, clearly outclassed everyone else remaining on the roster and is now a star of cable TV. I don't mean to disparage the others I didn't mention; some of them in time might have grown into compelling radio personalities. But some were hopeless and so many of them, even those who in time might have developed into outstanding hosts, came to the table with little or no experience in what makes a good talk show work. The network failed, when it had the chance, to recruit other experienced, talented broadcasters who would have fit in well and added to the network's strengths, like Ed Schultz, Jay Diamond, Joe Madison, Jay Marvin or Stephanie Miller. Add to that some senior administrative, marketing, programming and technical people who were long on passion but very short on practical experience, and you had an operation which resembled a college radio station (and not in a good way).
Hey, I don't claim to know everything about it myself, who does? I'm still learning new things about what works and what doesn't, like everyone in this business. But at least those of use who've been doing it a while have a clue as to what needs to be done to keep things going and keep their stations in the game. And we sharpen our skills as we go along. Air America lacked that growth on just about every level you can imagine, and never seemed to get its act fully together.
In the end, it shouldn't be a surprise that it failed--because it's more surprising that it survived for a half dozen years, while most similarly jerry-built broadcast organizations usually fail far sooner. That speaks, not to the failure of progressive radio, but to the fact that a demand for it exists which was strong enough to keep a VERY poorly run organization afloat far beyond the time when most such organizations normally sink to the bottom. A well run, professional organization with depth of talent top to bottom still has a tremendous opportunity to capture a large and loyal audience of people tired of the same old, same old from commercial talk radio. Air America proved that much despite its amateurish incompetence. It'll be interesting to see if anyone with a real understanding of the business of radio is sharp enough and gutsy enough to give it a try.
I'm no expert on Air America, but from what I've read it was not just what Bob1370 says (which sounds spot-on to me) but also that their passion far exceeded their budget. A lot of people forget how long it took Rush to become the national powerhouse that he is; many, many years of gradually getting on better and bigger signals. Air America seemed to think they were going to buy up stations in major markets and short-circuit the process, and they tried to do it right when radio stations were quite possibly at their MOST overvalued, so they blew hundreds of millions of dollars and only got a handful of so-so (if not crappy) signals in the process.
Yes starting with 1600 in NYC. But also true that many of the stations worth their weight already had Rush, O'Reilly, Hannity, Bortz, et all. As far as reasons for failure... Bill O said many a time that it was their negative slant on the country as a whole, usually blaming the US for all the world's problems, "who'd want to listen to that" ... he'd say.
As a long time progressive talk listener, I never hard anyone blame the U.S. for all the world's problems. My take on it was any AA criticism of the U.S. dealing with other countries was a criticism of the Bush/Cheney world view. "Who'd want to listen to that?" Probably all the people who still listen to Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller, Randi Rhodes, Tom Hartmann and Bill Press. BTW, in his gloating over AA's demise, BillO failed to mention the Moonie controlled right wing Washington Times currently being on the verge of financial collapse. They apparently suffer from mismanagement, just like AA did.
B
Bob1370
Guest
"Bill O said many a time that it was their negative slant on the country as a whole, usually blaming the US for all the world's problems, "who'd want to listen to that" ... he'd say. ?
Wonder if he ever acknowledged his own negativity or his dismissive or insulting attitude toward those who disagreed with him---and the role it may have played in the failure of his own afternoon radio show in syndication. Fact is, the whole universe of commercial talk radio is in trouble right now with an aging audience, the same men born between 1930 and 1955 that hosts like Limbaugh and Hannity started with back in the 80s and 90s. They're still on board today and they contribute to huge 12+ TSL (which inflates AQH as well) but they're now beyond the prime demo range. Younger listeners, the ones you want sampling you and contributing to the building of present and future cume, are conspicuous by their absence.
Air America hoped to connect with them. They might have, if they'd started off with a few shows hosted by real pros with fresh ideas and expanded gradually, as their resources permitted, with people who are talented professionals rather than earnest and passionate amateurs. But everyone from top to bottom, except for a few seasoned air personalities, was a neophyte with little idea of what they were doing. The place ran with amateurs in key positions and operated on a shoestring from start to finish. Normally it would have had a life measured in months. It lasted almost six years because despite its faults, it filled a demand in a number of markets for something different from the same old, same old...The lesson is, if you start with a decent supply of working capital, bring in professionals in every part of your organization, and plan for gradual growth consistent with your resources, you can succeed long-term in a way Air America couldn't sustain.
Wonder if he ever acknowledged his own negativity or his dismissive or insulting attitude toward those who disagreed with him---and the role it may have played in the failure of his own afternoon radio show in syndication. Fact is, the whole universe of commercial talk radio is in trouble right now with an aging audience, the same men born between 1930 and 1955 that hosts like Limbaugh and Hannity started with back in the 80s and 90s. They're still on board today and they contribute to huge 12+ TSL (which inflates AQH as well) but they're now beyond the prime demo range. Younger listeners, the ones you want sampling you and contributing to the building of present and future cume, are conspicuous by their absence.
Air America hoped to connect with them. They might have, if they'd started off with a few shows hosted by real pros with fresh ideas and expanded gradually, as their resources permitted, with people who are talented professionals rather than earnest and passionate amateurs. But everyone from top to bottom, except for a few seasoned air personalities, was a neophyte with little idea of what they were doing. The place ran with amateurs in key positions and operated on a shoestring from start to finish. Normally it would have had a life measured in months. It lasted almost six years because despite its faults, it filled a demand in a number of markets for something different from the same old, same old...The lesson is, if you start with a decent supply of working capital, bring in professionals in every part of your organization, and plan for gradual growth consistent with your resources, you can succeed long-term in a way Air America couldn't sustain.
Bob1370 said:
Haven't I heard this argument before? I can remember it being a talking point in the 70s---80's---90's---and last decade as well, even being posted on this board. And yet WBEN (and other stations like it) continues to be the dominant force in the market. Somebody's got to be listening! If you listen to the hoary argument that talk radio's audience is old and dying, then why don't they die off already? You can point to figures and ratings and demos all you want, but talk stations have thrived year after year forever (it seems), and they can't do that without filling in a younger demo for the older listeners who die off.
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