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Air America on WPTT
- Thread starter plant
- Start date
J
JohnnyMorganWXJX
Guest
> They are running promos saying "On July 4th, WPTT will claim
> it's independence." Is this finally it? Have they realized
> that they need to do something different? If they go AA,
> will they keep Lynn Cullen?? They have to, right?
>
I doubt that's what happening. Renda is very proud of the (almost) all-local talk they have on 1360; it's one of the reasons they're actively seeking the 910 move and power increase (and nighttime authorization after all that's done).
It really doesn't make much sense--Renda has no history in this market of being a knee-jerk reactor (they stayed with country on WIXZ for 23 years, and local talk now for 8; WSHH has been the same format for over 15; WJAS has been standards seemingly forever). Plus, Renda's other broadcast properties (e.g. Oklahoma City) aren't big on still unproven formats--KOMA-FM has been oldies for a long long time; the AM just switched from longtime oldies to talk last year, or the year before.
Let's leave aside for the moment the political inclinations and minutae of the Pittsburgh-SW Pennsylvania Democrat. This is a market that does not respond favorably to change--evidence, reaction to B-94 to K-Rock; KDKA's continuing hold on the #1 overall spot. WPTT, whatever preceived flaws, has been around for 8 years in its current formation. A jump to Air America, en masse, would be a shock to the stable WPTT listeners, and would teeter precariously close to a loss of WPTT's ad contingent (substantially local).
Further, the continued existence of Air America as a package is still in the brink--there are some good performing shows, there are some bad performing shows (both talent and ratings-wise). If WPTT wants to go liberal talk, I might suggest not putting all the eggs in the single basket (AAR), and instead diversify (Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller, etc.)
But that's if WPTT does so. I seriously cannot see it happening. The trend of liberal talk stations as of late has been Clear Channel switching lower-performing or excess AMs (Akron's 1350, Columbus's 1230). Both were previously sports stations, one a Fox Sports affiliate (cough-970-cough, ahem).
And let's look at industry trends--WJAS is a standards station (which I personally love and would hate to see go). Standards has been in a decline for 10 years, and those remaining are catering to the upper-ages (nothing wrong with it, by the way). The ad geeks will tell you that 25-54 is the way to go--and WJAS is decidedly outside that demo (never mind that fact that most talk radio is also outside that demo). So, why is no one calling for the end to WJAS?
Same reason the WPTT talk is premature (immature?)--Renda Broadcasting has made a personal, local commitment to Pittsburgh through all three of its broadcast properties. Each serves, and has served for a long time, distinct and important segments of the Pittsburgh listening community. They're not one to jump on the format-of-the-month because they don't have the same resources (locally or nationally) to devote to the lib talk format should it fail (i.e., giving up good-paying, loyal local advertisers in favor of national agencies).
Think about the formats that have bandwagon appeal and their biggest proponents--Jammin Oldies (AM/FM, now Clear Channel), Jack (Infinity), liberal talk (Clear Channel), Mix (Jacor, now Clear Channel). As I have mentioned, Renda hasn't changed a format in Pittsburgh for 8 years (and a caveat here, Renda's talk on 1360 is essentially what was on WTAE, which had it for 10 years before); the average age of a Renda format is 14 years. The company is rooted in Pittsburgh, so it knows the market.
I just can't see AAR on 1360 come July 4th. The lines just don't add up.
> it's independence." Is this finally it? Have they realized
> that they need to do something different? If they go AA,
> will they keep Lynn Cullen?? They have to, right?
>
I doubt that's what happening. Renda is very proud of the (almost) all-local talk they have on 1360; it's one of the reasons they're actively seeking the 910 move and power increase (and nighttime authorization after all that's done).
It really doesn't make much sense--Renda has no history in this market of being a knee-jerk reactor (they stayed with country on WIXZ for 23 years, and local talk now for 8; WSHH has been the same format for over 15; WJAS has been standards seemingly forever). Plus, Renda's other broadcast properties (e.g. Oklahoma City) aren't big on still unproven formats--KOMA-FM has been oldies for a long long time; the AM just switched from longtime oldies to talk last year, or the year before.
Let's leave aside for the moment the political inclinations and minutae of the Pittsburgh-SW Pennsylvania Democrat. This is a market that does not respond favorably to change--evidence, reaction to B-94 to K-Rock; KDKA's continuing hold on the #1 overall spot. WPTT, whatever preceived flaws, has been around for 8 years in its current formation. A jump to Air America, en masse, would be a shock to the stable WPTT listeners, and would teeter precariously close to a loss of WPTT's ad contingent (substantially local).
Further, the continued existence of Air America as a package is still in the brink--there are some good performing shows, there are some bad performing shows (both talent and ratings-wise). If WPTT wants to go liberal talk, I might suggest not putting all the eggs in the single basket (AAR), and instead diversify (Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller, etc.)
But that's if WPTT does so. I seriously cannot see it happening. The trend of liberal talk stations as of late has been Clear Channel switching lower-performing or excess AMs (Akron's 1350, Columbus's 1230). Both were previously sports stations, one a Fox Sports affiliate (cough-970-cough, ahem).
And let's look at industry trends--WJAS is a standards station (which I personally love and would hate to see go). Standards has been in a decline for 10 years, and those remaining are catering to the upper-ages (nothing wrong with it, by the way). The ad geeks will tell you that 25-54 is the way to go--and WJAS is decidedly outside that demo (never mind that fact that most talk radio is also outside that demo). So, why is no one calling for the end to WJAS?
Same reason the WPTT talk is premature (immature?)--Renda Broadcasting has made a personal, local commitment to Pittsburgh through all three of its broadcast properties. Each serves, and has served for a long time, distinct and important segments of the Pittsburgh listening community. They're not one to jump on the format-of-the-month because they don't have the same resources (locally or nationally) to devote to the lib talk format should it fail (i.e., giving up good-paying, loyal local advertisers in favor of national agencies).
Think about the formats that have bandwagon appeal and their biggest proponents--Jammin Oldies (AM/FM, now Clear Channel), Jack (Infinity), liberal talk (Clear Channel), Mix (Jacor, now Clear Channel). As I have mentioned, Renda hasn't changed a format in Pittsburgh for 8 years (and a caveat here, Renda's talk on 1360 is essentially what was on WTAE, which had it for 10 years before); the average age of a Renda format is 14 years. The company is rooted in Pittsburgh, so it knows the market.
I just can't see AAR on 1360 come July 4th. The lines just don't add up.
>As I have mentioned, Renda
> hasn't changed a format in Pittsburgh for 8 years (and a
> caveat here, Renda's talk on 1360 is essentially what was on
> WTAE, which had it for 10 years before); the average age of
> a Renda format is 14 years. The company is rooted in
> Pittsburgh, so it knows the market.
>
> I just can't see AAR on 1360 come July 4th. The lines just
> don't add up.
>
I just logged onto their web page and if you go the link for the program schedule, it loops back to the page that states - ON JULY 4TH 2005, 1360 WPTT DECLARES ITS INDEPENDENCE! STAY TUNED FOR TALK RADIO AT THE NEXT LEVEL! This has all the signs of a change in direction from their present local talk schedule in spite of the fact that Renda's track record is one of stability with formats.
> hasn't changed a format in Pittsburgh for 8 years (and a
> caveat here, Renda's talk on 1360 is essentially what was on
> WTAE, which had it for 10 years before); the average age of
> a Renda format is 14 years. The company is rooted in
> Pittsburgh, so it knows the market.
>
> I just can't see AAR on 1360 come July 4th. The lines just
> don't add up.
>
I just logged onto their web page and if you go the link for the program schedule, it loops back to the page that states - ON JULY 4TH 2005, 1360 WPTT DECLARES ITS INDEPENDENCE! STAY TUNED FOR TALK RADIO AT THE NEXT LEVEL! This has all the signs of a change in direction from their present local talk schedule in spite of the fact that Renda's track record is one of stability with formats.
Maybe it's going JACK
Since everybody thinks every other station on here will . . .
But seriously, I have a couple of points of contention here-
First, Renda broadcasting has switched formats before after a quick look (and is eight years really a quick look?), and, additionally, it has been nearly all syndicated programming.
I am speaking of when WIXZ went to an all-sports format- the first station to do so in the market- in the mid-90s.
Fox Sports 970 looks like the most funded radio station in the world compared to what Renda put into that format- which only lasted about 2-3 years.
It would have been interesting to see if they had picked up another network such as Sportsfan, ESPN, or One-on-One and had actually tried to spend some money and pick up a local play-by-play contract and hosts what would have happened. They could have certainly had Pitt when the Panthers went to KQV.
It's a shame, too, because lots of young talent worked there doing updates. Kevin Henry went on to become a TV anchor in Virginia. Phil Elsin became a play-by-play announcer for a minor league baseball team in Little Rock. Those guys would certainly have worked cheap and could have presented a better perspective on the local sports scene as talk show hosts- if that's what they wanted- than, say, Rocco Pendola, which is what we were getting at the time.
Regardless, there is presendence for such a move by Renda.
SECOND POINT OF CONTENTION- IN RESPONSE TO-
"This is a market that does not respond favorably to
> change--evidence, reaction to B-94 to K-Rock; KDKA's
> continuing hold on the #1 overall spot."
This board has to be the B-94 Fan Club. I am convinced every single person who ever liked that station posts on this board.
For the last time- Pittsburgh is a rock town- it's not a pop music town- and that's why the ratings of the station have gone UP since they changed format from B-94.
Even the KDKA comment. That is a rating based on signal and WDVE is now breathing down their neck.
Since everybody thinks every other station on here will . . .
But seriously, I have a couple of points of contention here-
First, Renda broadcasting has switched formats before after a quick look (and is eight years really a quick look?), and, additionally, it has been nearly all syndicated programming.
I am speaking of when WIXZ went to an all-sports format- the first station to do so in the market- in the mid-90s.
Fox Sports 970 looks like the most funded radio station in the world compared to what Renda put into that format- which only lasted about 2-3 years.
It would have been interesting to see if they had picked up another network such as Sportsfan, ESPN, or One-on-One and had actually tried to spend some money and pick up a local play-by-play contract and hosts what would have happened. They could have certainly had Pitt when the Panthers went to KQV.
It's a shame, too, because lots of young talent worked there doing updates. Kevin Henry went on to become a TV anchor in Virginia. Phil Elsin became a play-by-play announcer for a minor league baseball team in Little Rock. Those guys would certainly have worked cheap and could have presented a better perspective on the local sports scene as talk show hosts- if that's what they wanted- than, say, Rocco Pendola, which is what we were getting at the time.
Regardless, there is presendence for such a move by Renda.
SECOND POINT OF CONTENTION- IN RESPONSE TO-
"This is a market that does not respond favorably to
> change--evidence, reaction to B-94 to K-Rock; KDKA's
> continuing hold on the #1 overall spot."
This board has to be the B-94 Fan Club. I am convinced every single person who ever liked that station posts on this board.
For the last time- Pittsburgh is a rock town- it's not a pop music town- and that's why the ratings of the station have gone UP since they changed format from B-94.
Even the KDKA comment. That is a rating based on signal and WDVE is now breathing down their neck.
M
MadAirchecker
Guest
Re: Maybe it's going JACK
> I am speaking of when WIXZ went to an all-sports format- the
> first station to do so in the market- in the mid-90s.
>
> Fox Sports 970 looks like the most funded radio station in
> the world compared to what Renda put into that format- which
> only lasted about 2-3 years.
Renda dropped sports out of necessity. The change was made was when 1250 went all-sports. They weren't going to compete with 1250 and its ESPN affiliation and they also wanted to pick up the talent dropped by WTAE in the format switch. They added Cullen and Hoerth fairly quickly and already had Bruce Keidan left over from the sports format.
> It would have been interesting to see if they had picked up
> another network such as Sportsfan, ESPN, or One-on-One and
> had actually tried to spend some money and pick up a local
> play-by-play contract and hosts what would have happened.
> They could have certainly had Pitt when the Panthers went to
> KQV.
There wasn't a chance in hell they were going to be able to get a local play-by-play contract with their night signal. The only kind of pbp they could hope for would be some secondary sport, like soccer, or some minor league team like Washington's baseball team or Wheeling's hockey team. Those would not have meant anything to the sports audience.
They were looking at hiring at least one more local host when they dumped the sports format. Keidan was programming the station and was interested in hiring Madden, who was a free agent at that time. The sports plans immediately went out the window when 1250 flipped. Renda knew his niche would be Dr. Laura's show and the WTAE hosts. He was right.
> It's a shame, too, because lots of young talent worked there
> doing updates. Kevin Henry went on to become a TV anchor in
> Virginia. Phil Elsin became a play-by-play announcer for a
> minor league baseball team in Little Rock. Those guys would
> certainly have worked cheap and could have presented a
> better perspective on the local sports scene as talk show
> hosts- if that's what they wanted- than, say, Rocco Pendola,
> which is what we were getting at the time.
1250 brought Rocco in to shock, not to do traditional Pittsburgh-styled sports talk. Two different things entirely.
> I am speaking of when WIXZ went to an all-sports format- the
> first station to do so in the market- in the mid-90s.
>
> Fox Sports 970 looks like the most funded radio station in
> the world compared to what Renda put into that format- which
> only lasted about 2-3 years.
Renda dropped sports out of necessity. The change was made was when 1250 went all-sports. They weren't going to compete with 1250 and its ESPN affiliation and they also wanted to pick up the talent dropped by WTAE in the format switch. They added Cullen and Hoerth fairly quickly and already had Bruce Keidan left over from the sports format.
> It would have been interesting to see if they had picked up
> another network such as Sportsfan, ESPN, or One-on-One and
> had actually tried to spend some money and pick up a local
> play-by-play contract and hosts what would have happened.
> They could have certainly had Pitt when the Panthers went to
> KQV.
There wasn't a chance in hell they were going to be able to get a local play-by-play contract with their night signal. The only kind of pbp they could hope for would be some secondary sport, like soccer, or some minor league team like Washington's baseball team or Wheeling's hockey team. Those would not have meant anything to the sports audience.
They were looking at hiring at least one more local host when they dumped the sports format. Keidan was programming the station and was interested in hiring Madden, who was a free agent at that time. The sports plans immediately went out the window when 1250 flipped. Renda knew his niche would be Dr. Laura's show and the WTAE hosts. He was right.
> It's a shame, too, because lots of young talent worked there
> doing updates. Kevin Henry went on to become a TV anchor in
> Virginia. Phil Elsin became a play-by-play announcer for a
> minor league baseball team in Little Rock. Those guys would
> certainly have worked cheap and could have presented a
> better perspective on the local sports scene as talk show
> hosts- if that's what they wanted- than, say, Rocco Pendola,
> which is what we were getting at the time.
1250 brought Rocco in to shock, not to do traditional Pittsburgh-styled sports talk. Two different things entirely.
> They are running promos saying "On July 4th, WPTT will claim
> it's independence." Is this finally it? Have they realized
> that they need to do something different? If they go AA,
> will they keep Lynn Cullen?? They have to, right?
I think 1550 should flip to libtalk. Or just turn off the transmitter - that might be even better.
> it's independence." Is this finally it? Have they realized
> that they need to do something different? If they go AA,
> will they keep Lynn Cullen?? They have to, right?
I think 1550 should flip to libtalk. Or just turn off the transmitter - that might be even better.
J
JohnnyMorganWXJX
Guest
> I think 1550 should flip to libtalk. Or just turn off the
> transmitter - that might be even better.
>
But if they turned it off, then their 4 watts at night couldn't toast my bagel.
> transmitter - that might be even better.
>
But if they turned it off, then their 4 watts at night couldn't toast my bagel.
Disagree-
Though I know they've looked at going Air America, and to be honest with you that's generally the type of station that network gets on.
But I love Imus and although G. Gordon Liddy is a shell of his former self, he's still one of the All-Time 25 Hosts according to Talkers.
They have some quality programming on that station- Veykis, Sporting News Radio. Unfortunately their signal and, most of all, lack of promotion is killing them.
Case in point- you can tell me you don't have any money to do billboards, TV, whatever, but there's no excuse for them to have the same lack of updates with their promos and commercials.
Five words- Life in the Fast Lane. If you've even spent an HOUR listening to The Edge you know what I'm talking about.
Though I know they've looked at going Air America, and to be honest with you that's generally the type of station that network gets on.
But I love Imus and although G. Gordon Liddy is a shell of his former self, he's still one of the All-Time 25 Hosts according to Talkers.
They have some quality programming on that station- Veykis, Sporting News Radio. Unfortunately their signal and, most of all, lack of promotion is killing them.
Case in point- you can tell me you don't have any money to do billboards, TV, whatever, but there's no excuse for them to have the same lack of updates with their promos and commercials.
Five words- Life in the Fast Lane. If you've even spent an HOUR listening to The Edge you know what I'm talking about.
I
ishkabibble
Guest
Re: Maybe it's going JACK
Jack Wheeler? Nope-tried him 25 years ago.
Jack Bogut? Nope-he's in the building on the AARP station.
Jackson Armstrong? Nope-like D-Day in Animal House, his whereabouts are unknown.
Jack Fleming? Nope-but he'll soon be on KDKA, along with Bob Prince, Tom Bender, and Joe Tucker, so the big 1020 can reach a larger segment of their target audience-deceased.
Jack Wheeler? Nope-tried him 25 years ago.
Jack Bogut? Nope-he's in the building on the AARP station.
Jackson Armstrong? Nope-like D-Day in Animal House, his whereabouts are unknown.
Jack Fleming? Nope-but he'll soon be on KDKA, along with Bob Prince, Tom Bender, and Joe Tucker, so the big 1020 can reach a larger segment of their target audience-deceased.
J
JohnnyMorganWXJX
Guest
Pittsburgh's Radio Conservatism (and I don't mean politics)
> SECOND POINT OF CONTENTION- IN RESPONSE TO-
>
> "This is a market that does not respond favorably to
> > change--evidence, reaction to B-94 to K-Rock; KDKA's
> > continuing hold on the #1 overall spot."
>
>
> This board has to be the B-94 Fan Club. I am convinced every
> single person who ever liked that station posts on this
> board.
I'm not in that fan club. It was alright as a music station, and when I moved to Pittsburgh for a few years in the late 90s (even after the dawn of Kiss) my friends still considered B-94 as the "go-to" station for new pop music. So, whether that's me in a fan club (I'm actually an oldies guy, not CHR) is for you to decide.
I used B-94 as a reference point to show how its longevity and the outrage at its format change reflected the area's ingrained conservativism (as in, not receptive to change, not politically--though, that's a topic for another board on another day).
> For the last time- Pittsburgh is a rock town- it's not a pop
> music town- and that's why the ratings of the station have
> gone UP since they changed format from B-94.
This has nothing to do with my point about longevity and conservatism in radio listening habits. Regardless, I wish to make a few points.
If you study the demos and the overalls, the biggest format in Pittsburgh is AC/AC-gold; rock is second, but still behind. Remember, the key demo is still 25-54, and though the rock formats may be within that demo, the AC's are in it too--and heavily female, a key point that advertisers love.
Looking at the most recent 12+ overall full book (Winter 05), the figures are thus--
AC/AC-gold (3WS, Wish, Star, Lite Rock), average rating: 4.5
Rock (DVE, K-Rock, The X, 97RRK), average rating: 4.35
The image of Pittsburgh as a "rock town" is exactly that--an image. The city still reflects itself as being working-class, and by an extension of national stereotypes, working-class equals rock music. Add to that the Steelers' historical image (Mean Joe Greene, Steel Curtain Defense, The Bus) which exudes manliness, power, etc., traits also associated with rock music.
But, as we all know, the economy and the tone of Pittsburgh has totally changed. It is now a banking, biomedical, services-oriented city, with alot more females working in areas like accounting, human resources, law, etc. These females with money are the ones sought by advertisers; radio stations are agreeing; and as a result, though the station numbers are equal between rock-ish and AC-ish stations, more people (probably female) are listening to AC than people (mostly men) are listening to rock.
I'm not quite sure what you would call the stuff played on Star, Wish, 3WS, and Lite Rock if you won't call it "pop"--sure seems that way to me. I'll agree that new popular music is not a mass format in Pittsburgh, despite the success of Kiss (attributable to the relative scarcity of pop/CHR stations in town (2--Kiss and WAMO) compared to the 4 rock stations cited, supra). But the continuing fallacy that Pittsburgh is a "rock town" is rooted in its image--and we have DVE to thank for that.
I'm not knocking it or putting it down; DVE has branded a town with an image that helps them. But the reality is otherwise--Pittsburgh is a modern, services town with a pop music audience (mostly women).
> Even the KDKA comment. That is a rating based on signal and
> WDVE is now breathing down their neck.
>
It's more than just signal. In the daytime, despite its 50kw AM ground system, KDKA and 3WS, 50kw FM, are covering the same area, and targeting the same audience--Pittsburgh and environs.
As I mentioned, KDKA has longevity in this market--if this makes any sense--because of its longevity in the market. It's hard to forget that KDKA was the first station in America, and for the longest time was everything for everyone. Same with the TV station--it was the first TV outlet in Pittsburgh.
I use this to note that KDKA's sustained ratings have been because it's been so big for so long. KDKA has been #1 in Pittsburgh since 1920--barring one book in the early-mid 90s (when WDVE beat it), and one recent book when WDVE tied it. This perpetual # 1 rating for KDKA cannot be solely attributable to signal; there must be something else. Leaving aside all of KDKA's audience demographics, programming flaws, and what have you, it's still #1 because the whole town knows about it. And the whole town thinks of it as being #1, beacuse for all of their lives, KDKA has been the #1 station in town.
And, regardless of the audience age (savagely attacked on this board, ridiculed in radio and advertising circles, and made fun of by the younger listeners), it is almost a rite of passage that once you reach a certain age, you find the news-talk programming on KDKA to be interesting.
The news-talk format on KDKA is nearing 20 years of existence; it's been a news-source station for far longer. This is what I mean--Pittsburgh has its go-to stations for different elements: news (KDKA), rock (DVE), oldies (3WS), pop (used to be B-94). They are go-tos because they have been doing it for so long, and the town has become accustomed to their presence.
This is my only point--that Renda Broadcasting has been a part of this market for 31 years, and knows how it operates. It's formats have been around for a long time as well. Reason and logic would argue against a format shift on WPTT.
But, I have to confess--the WPTT website has me perplexed. No on-air bios, no program schedule. It's very intriguing--just the singular position statement about "Declaring Independence" on July 4th.
If the switch to lib talk is right, then Tony Renda may be the smartest (and riskiest) programmer alive. He could stay with WPTT's current format and be perfectly happy, selling out the avails to all sorts of local businesses. But he must see something on the lib talk horizon that causes him to buck, not only the town's trend, but also his own company's trend, history, and actions.
> SECOND POINT OF CONTENTION- IN RESPONSE TO-
>
> "This is a market that does not respond favorably to
> > change--evidence, reaction to B-94 to K-Rock; KDKA's
> > continuing hold on the #1 overall spot."
>
>
> This board has to be the B-94 Fan Club. I am convinced every
> single person who ever liked that station posts on this
> board.
I'm not in that fan club. It was alright as a music station, and when I moved to Pittsburgh for a few years in the late 90s (even after the dawn of Kiss) my friends still considered B-94 as the "go-to" station for new pop music. So, whether that's me in a fan club (I'm actually an oldies guy, not CHR) is for you to decide.
I used B-94 as a reference point to show how its longevity and the outrage at its format change reflected the area's ingrained conservativism (as in, not receptive to change, not politically--though, that's a topic for another board on another day).
> For the last time- Pittsburgh is a rock town- it's not a pop
> music town- and that's why the ratings of the station have
> gone UP since they changed format from B-94.
This has nothing to do with my point about longevity and conservatism in radio listening habits. Regardless, I wish to make a few points.
If you study the demos and the overalls, the biggest format in Pittsburgh is AC/AC-gold; rock is second, but still behind. Remember, the key demo is still 25-54, and though the rock formats may be within that demo, the AC's are in it too--and heavily female, a key point that advertisers love.
Looking at the most recent 12+ overall full book (Winter 05), the figures are thus--
AC/AC-gold (3WS, Wish, Star, Lite Rock), average rating: 4.5
Rock (DVE, K-Rock, The X, 97RRK), average rating: 4.35
The image of Pittsburgh as a "rock town" is exactly that--an image. The city still reflects itself as being working-class, and by an extension of national stereotypes, working-class equals rock music. Add to that the Steelers' historical image (Mean Joe Greene, Steel Curtain Defense, The Bus) which exudes manliness, power, etc., traits also associated with rock music.
But, as we all know, the economy and the tone of Pittsburgh has totally changed. It is now a banking, biomedical, services-oriented city, with alot more females working in areas like accounting, human resources, law, etc. These females with money are the ones sought by advertisers; radio stations are agreeing; and as a result, though the station numbers are equal between rock-ish and AC-ish stations, more people (probably female) are listening to AC than people (mostly men) are listening to rock.
I'm not quite sure what you would call the stuff played on Star, Wish, 3WS, and Lite Rock if you won't call it "pop"--sure seems that way to me. I'll agree that new popular music is not a mass format in Pittsburgh, despite the success of Kiss (attributable to the relative scarcity of pop/CHR stations in town (2--Kiss and WAMO) compared to the 4 rock stations cited, supra). But the continuing fallacy that Pittsburgh is a "rock town" is rooted in its image--and we have DVE to thank for that.
I'm not knocking it or putting it down; DVE has branded a town with an image that helps them. But the reality is otherwise--Pittsburgh is a modern, services town with a pop music audience (mostly women).
> Even the KDKA comment. That is a rating based on signal and
> WDVE is now breathing down their neck.
>
It's more than just signal. In the daytime, despite its 50kw AM ground system, KDKA and 3WS, 50kw FM, are covering the same area, and targeting the same audience--Pittsburgh and environs.
As I mentioned, KDKA has longevity in this market--if this makes any sense--because of its longevity in the market. It's hard to forget that KDKA was the first station in America, and for the longest time was everything for everyone. Same with the TV station--it was the first TV outlet in Pittsburgh.
I use this to note that KDKA's sustained ratings have been because it's been so big for so long. KDKA has been #1 in Pittsburgh since 1920--barring one book in the early-mid 90s (when WDVE beat it), and one recent book when WDVE tied it. This perpetual # 1 rating for KDKA cannot be solely attributable to signal; there must be something else. Leaving aside all of KDKA's audience demographics, programming flaws, and what have you, it's still #1 because the whole town knows about it. And the whole town thinks of it as being #1, beacuse for all of their lives, KDKA has been the #1 station in town.
And, regardless of the audience age (savagely attacked on this board, ridiculed in radio and advertising circles, and made fun of by the younger listeners), it is almost a rite of passage that once you reach a certain age, you find the news-talk programming on KDKA to be interesting.
The news-talk format on KDKA is nearing 20 years of existence; it's been a news-source station for far longer. This is what I mean--Pittsburgh has its go-to stations for different elements: news (KDKA), rock (DVE), oldies (3WS), pop (used to be B-94). They are go-tos because they have been doing it for so long, and the town has become accustomed to their presence.
This is my only point--that Renda Broadcasting has been a part of this market for 31 years, and knows how it operates. It's formats have been around for a long time as well. Reason and logic would argue against a format shift on WPTT.
But, I have to confess--the WPTT website has me perplexed. No on-air bios, no program schedule. It's very intriguing--just the singular position statement about "Declaring Independence" on July 4th.
If the switch to lib talk is right, then Tony Renda may be the smartest (and riskiest) programmer alive. He could stay with WPTT's current format and be perfectly happy, selling out the avails to all sorts of local businesses. But he must see something on the lib talk horizon that causes him to buck, not only the town's trend, but also his own company's trend, history, and actions.
Re: Disagree-
> Five words- Life in the Fast Lane. If you've even spent an
> HOUR listening to The Edge you know what I'm talking about.
And don't forget to clean the mirrors!
> Five words- Life in the Fast Lane. If you've even spent an
> HOUR listening to The Edge you know what I'm talking about.
And don't forget to clean the mirrors!
Going on-
Some of the success of the stations you have mentioned- such as 3WS and 100.7- are because they DO play rock.
Not exclusively, mind you, but with its 80s mix I used to hear bands like Poison on Star. Nobody else was playing as much 80s rock (oh, WDVE might play something from Appetite For Destruction or Back in Black, but they certainly didn't focus on it). I don't know if that's still the same, but I felt they were hitting an audience- heck- me- by playing "Every Rose Has It's Thorn" or "Bad Medicine," whereas the so-called "rock stations" were avoiding this.
Same with 3WS. I don't listen to it much, but when I have I have heard classic rock from bands such as The Troggs and The Stones and Roy Orbison.
Basicly, I think there's a big difference between 3WS- Star 100.7 to WSHH and Lite Rock. You're talking about something that is listenable to elevator music. I'm not sure that you can lump all of them together.
I still gotta go with Pittsburgh as a rock town. I mean, I could say that mixing WDSY and Froggy you'd get a 5.2 average rating. WHOA! PITTSBURGH IS NASHVILLE NORTH!
Point is- If it ain't for a WRRK- rock still wins by a mile. And even including that station- which seems to think "Piano Man" by Billy Joel is what all the hard-rockers want to listen to- you're only winning by 0.15.
And I'm sorry, but what's with lumping all rock fans together as blue collar slobs?
I'd continue, but, naturally, I have to go find out if my wife has left me an orange in my lunchbox.
> > SECOND POINT OF CONTENTION- IN RESPONSE TO-
> >
> > "This is a market that does not respond favorably to
> > > change--evidence, reaction to B-94 to K-Rock; KDKA's
> > > continuing hold on the #1 overall spot."
> >
> >
> > This board has to be the B-94 Fan Club. I am convinced
> every
> > single person who ever liked that station posts on this
> > board.
>
> I'm not in that fan club. It was alright as a music
> station, and when I moved to Pittsburgh for a few years in
> the late 90s (even after the dawn of Kiss) my friends still
> considered B-94 as the "go-to" station for new pop music.
> So, whether that's me in a fan club (I'm actually an oldies
> guy, not CHR) is for you to decide.
>
> I used B-94 as a reference point to show how its longevity
> and the outrage at its format change reflected the area's
> ingrained conservativism (as in, not receptive to change,
> not politically--though, that's a topic for another board on
> another day).
>
> > For the last time- Pittsburgh is a rock town- it's not a
> pop
> > music town- and that's why the ratings of the station have
>
> > gone UP since they changed format from B-94.
>
> This has nothing to do with my point about longevity and
> conservatism in radio listening habits. Regardless, I wish
> to make a few points.
>
> If you study the demos and the overalls, the biggest format
> in Pittsburgh is AC/AC-gold; rock is second, but still
> behind. Remember, the key demo is still 25-54, and though
> the rock formats may be within that demo, the AC's are in it
> too--and heavily female, a key point that advertisers love.
>
> Looking at the most recent 12+ overall full book (Winter
> 05), the figures are thus--
>
> AC/AC-gold (3WS, Wish, Star, Lite Rock), average rating: 4.5
>
>
> Rock (DVE, K-Rock, The X, 97RRK), average rating: 4.35
>
> The image of Pittsburgh as a "rock town" is exactly that--an
> image. The city still reflects itself as being
> working-class, and by an extension of national stereotypes,
> working-class equals rock music. Add to that the Steelers'
> historical image (Mean Joe Greene, Steel Curtain Defense,
> The Bus) which exudes manliness, power, etc., traits also
> associated with rock music.
>
> But, as we all know, the economy and the tone of Pittsburgh
> has totally changed. It is now a banking, biomedical,
> services-oriented city, with alot more females working in
> areas like accounting, human resources, law, etc. These
> females with money are the ones sought by advertisers; radio
> stations are agreeing; and as a result, though the station
> numbers are equal between rock-ish and AC-ish stations, more
> people (probably female) are listening to AC than people
> (mostly men) are listening to rock.
>
> I'm not quite sure what you would call the stuff played on
> Star, Wish, 3WS, and Lite Rock if you won't call it
> "pop"--sure seems that way to me. I'll agree that new
> popular music is not a mass format in Pittsburgh, despite
> the success of Kiss (attributable to the relative scarcity
> of pop/CHR stations in town (2--Kiss and WAMO) compared to
> the 4 rock stations cited, supra). But the continuing
> fallacy that Pittsburgh is a "rock town" is rooted in its
> image--and we have DVE to thank for that.
>
> I'm not knocking it or putting it down; DVE has branded a
> town with an image that helps them. But the reality is
> otherwise--Pittsburgh is a modern, services town with a pop
> music audience (mostly women).
>
> > Even the KDKA comment. That is a rating based on signal
> and
> > WDVE is now breathing down their neck.
> >
>
> It's more than just signal. In the daytime, despite its
> 50kw AM ground system, KDKA and 3WS, 50kw FM, are covering
> the same area, and targeting the same audience--Pittsburgh
> and environs.
>
> As I mentioned, KDKA has longevity in this market--if this
> makes any sense--because of its longevity in the market.
> It's hard to forget that KDKA was the first station in
> America, and for the longest time was everything for
> everyone. Same with the TV station--it was the first TV
> outlet in Pittsburgh.
>
> I use this to note that KDKA's sustained ratings have been
> because it's been so big for so long. KDKA has been #1 in
> Pittsburgh since 1920--barring one book in the early-mid 90s
> (when WDVE beat it), and one recent book when WDVE tied it.
> This perpetual # 1 rating for KDKA cannot be solely
> attributable to signal; there must be something else.
> Leaving aside all of KDKA's audience demographics,
> programming flaws, and what have you, it's still #1 because
> the whole town knows about it. And the whole town thinks of
> it as being #1, beacuse for all of their lives, KDKA has
> been the #1 station in town.
>
> And, regardless of the audience age (savagely attacked on
> this board, ridiculed in radio and advertising circles, and
> made fun of by the younger listeners), it is almost a rite
> of passage that once you reach a certain age, you find the
> news-talk programming on KDKA to be interesting.
>
> The news-talk format on KDKA is nearing 20 years of
> existence; it's been a news-source station for far longer.
> This is what I mean--Pittsburgh has its go-to stations for
> different elements: news (KDKA), rock (DVE), oldies (3WS),
> pop (used to be B-94). They are go-tos because they have
> been doing it for so long, and the town has become
> accustomed to their presence.
>
> This is my only point--that Renda Broadcasting has been a
> part of this market for 31 years, and knows how it operates.
> It's formats have been around for a long time as well.
> Reason and logic would argue against a format shift on WPTT.
>
>
> But, I have to confess--the WPTT website has me perplexed.
> No on-air bios, no program schedule. It's very
> intriguing--just the singular position statement about
> "Declaring Independence" on July 4th.
>
> If the switch to lib talk is right, then Tony Renda may be
> the smartest (and riskiest) programmer alive. He could stay
> with WPTT's current format and be perfectly happy, selling
> out the avails to all sorts of local businesses. But he
> must see something on the lib talk horizon that causes him
> to buck, not only the town's trend, but also his own
> company's trend, history, and actions.
>
Some of the success of the stations you have mentioned- such as 3WS and 100.7- are because they DO play rock.
Not exclusively, mind you, but with its 80s mix I used to hear bands like Poison on Star. Nobody else was playing as much 80s rock (oh, WDVE might play something from Appetite For Destruction or Back in Black, but they certainly didn't focus on it). I don't know if that's still the same, but I felt they were hitting an audience- heck- me- by playing "Every Rose Has It's Thorn" or "Bad Medicine," whereas the so-called "rock stations" were avoiding this.
Same with 3WS. I don't listen to it much, but when I have I have heard classic rock from bands such as The Troggs and The Stones and Roy Orbison.
Basicly, I think there's a big difference between 3WS- Star 100.7 to WSHH and Lite Rock. You're talking about something that is listenable to elevator music. I'm not sure that you can lump all of them together.
I still gotta go with Pittsburgh as a rock town. I mean, I could say that mixing WDSY and Froggy you'd get a 5.2 average rating. WHOA! PITTSBURGH IS NASHVILLE NORTH!
Point is- If it ain't for a WRRK- rock still wins by a mile. And even including that station- which seems to think "Piano Man" by Billy Joel is what all the hard-rockers want to listen to- you're only winning by 0.15.
And I'm sorry, but what's with lumping all rock fans together as blue collar slobs?
I'd continue, but, naturally, I have to go find out if my wife has left me an orange in my lunchbox.
> > SECOND POINT OF CONTENTION- IN RESPONSE TO-
> >
> > "This is a market that does not respond favorably to
> > > change--evidence, reaction to B-94 to K-Rock; KDKA's
> > > continuing hold on the #1 overall spot."
> >
> >
> > This board has to be the B-94 Fan Club. I am convinced
> every
> > single person who ever liked that station posts on this
> > board.
>
> I'm not in that fan club. It was alright as a music
> station, and when I moved to Pittsburgh for a few years in
> the late 90s (even after the dawn of Kiss) my friends still
> considered B-94 as the "go-to" station for new pop music.
> So, whether that's me in a fan club (I'm actually an oldies
> guy, not CHR) is for you to decide.
>
> I used B-94 as a reference point to show how its longevity
> and the outrage at its format change reflected the area's
> ingrained conservativism (as in, not receptive to change,
> not politically--though, that's a topic for another board on
> another day).
>
> > For the last time- Pittsburgh is a rock town- it's not a
> pop
> > music town- and that's why the ratings of the station have
>
> > gone UP since they changed format from B-94.
>
> This has nothing to do with my point about longevity and
> conservatism in radio listening habits. Regardless, I wish
> to make a few points.
>
> If you study the demos and the overalls, the biggest format
> in Pittsburgh is AC/AC-gold; rock is second, but still
> behind. Remember, the key demo is still 25-54, and though
> the rock formats may be within that demo, the AC's are in it
> too--and heavily female, a key point that advertisers love.
>
> Looking at the most recent 12+ overall full book (Winter
> 05), the figures are thus--
>
> AC/AC-gold (3WS, Wish, Star, Lite Rock), average rating: 4.5
>
>
> Rock (DVE, K-Rock, The X, 97RRK), average rating: 4.35
>
> The image of Pittsburgh as a "rock town" is exactly that--an
> image. The city still reflects itself as being
> working-class, and by an extension of national stereotypes,
> working-class equals rock music. Add to that the Steelers'
> historical image (Mean Joe Greene, Steel Curtain Defense,
> The Bus) which exudes manliness, power, etc., traits also
> associated with rock music.
>
> But, as we all know, the economy and the tone of Pittsburgh
> has totally changed. It is now a banking, biomedical,
> services-oriented city, with alot more females working in
> areas like accounting, human resources, law, etc. These
> females with money are the ones sought by advertisers; radio
> stations are agreeing; and as a result, though the station
> numbers are equal between rock-ish and AC-ish stations, more
> people (probably female) are listening to AC than people
> (mostly men) are listening to rock.
>
> I'm not quite sure what you would call the stuff played on
> Star, Wish, 3WS, and Lite Rock if you won't call it
> "pop"--sure seems that way to me. I'll agree that new
> popular music is not a mass format in Pittsburgh, despite
> the success of Kiss (attributable to the relative scarcity
> of pop/CHR stations in town (2--Kiss and WAMO) compared to
> the 4 rock stations cited, supra). But the continuing
> fallacy that Pittsburgh is a "rock town" is rooted in its
> image--and we have DVE to thank for that.
>
> I'm not knocking it or putting it down; DVE has branded a
> town with an image that helps them. But the reality is
> otherwise--Pittsburgh is a modern, services town with a pop
> music audience (mostly women).
>
> > Even the KDKA comment. That is a rating based on signal
> and
> > WDVE is now breathing down their neck.
> >
>
> It's more than just signal. In the daytime, despite its
> 50kw AM ground system, KDKA and 3WS, 50kw FM, are covering
> the same area, and targeting the same audience--Pittsburgh
> and environs.
>
> As I mentioned, KDKA has longevity in this market--if this
> makes any sense--because of its longevity in the market.
> It's hard to forget that KDKA was the first station in
> America, and for the longest time was everything for
> everyone. Same with the TV station--it was the first TV
> outlet in Pittsburgh.
>
> I use this to note that KDKA's sustained ratings have been
> because it's been so big for so long. KDKA has been #1 in
> Pittsburgh since 1920--barring one book in the early-mid 90s
> (when WDVE beat it), and one recent book when WDVE tied it.
> This perpetual # 1 rating for KDKA cannot be solely
> attributable to signal; there must be something else.
> Leaving aside all of KDKA's audience demographics,
> programming flaws, and what have you, it's still #1 because
> the whole town knows about it. And the whole town thinks of
> it as being #1, beacuse for all of their lives, KDKA has
> been the #1 station in town.
>
> And, regardless of the audience age (savagely attacked on
> this board, ridiculed in radio and advertising circles, and
> made fun of by the younger listeners), it is almost a rite
> of passage that once you reach a certain age, you find the
> news-talk programming on KDKA to be interesting.
>
> The news-talk format on KDKA is nearing 20 years of
> existence; it's been a news-source station for far longer.
> This is what I mean--Pittsburgh has its go-to stations for
> different elements: news (KDKA), rock (DVE), oldies (3WS),
> pop (used to be B-94). They are go-tos because they have
> been doing it for so long, and the town has become
> accustomed to their presence.
>
> This is my only point--that Renda Broadcasting has been a
> part of this market for 31 years, and knows how it operates.
> It's formats have been around for a long time as well.
> Reason and logic would argue against a format shift on WPTT.
>
>
> But, I have to confess--the WPTT website has me perplexed.
> No on-air bios, no program schedule. It's very
> intriguing--just the singular position statement about
> "Declaring Independence" on July 4th.
>
> If the switch to lib talk is right, then Tony Renda may be
> the smartest (and riskiest) programmer alive. He could stay
> with WPTT's current format and be perfectly happy, selling
> out the avails to all sorts of local businesses. But he
> must see something on the lib talk horizon that causes him
> to buck, not only the town's trend, but also his own
> company's trend, history, and actions.
>
Don't buy it-
If Pitt was willing to leave WTAE to go to KQV in '98, which has no better signal than WPTT, then I'm positive they would have considered a move to an all-sports WIXZ, especially if they were what the station was built around.
Renda just doesn't get sports. Had he put any money, any money whatsoever, into finding suitable talent for a drive-time talk show, I'm convinced it would have worked. I mean come on- the "talent" locally around that time was John Corby and Tom McMillan and Keidan. You're telling me that you couldn't find a host to go up against that?
No, they wouldn't have stolen the Pirates away from KDKA, but as I said, Pitt and NASCAR would get more of an audience than you'd ever imagine.
Furthermore, when WTAE went all sports- originally their programming didn't carry much ESPN. They had 'em on the weekend (I'm trying to remember- was ESPN even 24/7 back in those days?) but the syndicated part was filled with shows like "Ferrall on the Bench" and Sportsfan.
I don't see why ESPN Radio is such a great giant to slay. Of the three major syndicated networks I think Sporting News probably has the best talent, and FOX has the two most nationally-known shows in Jim Rome (technically Premier) and JT the Brick.
But the final point is just that "Prime Sports 1360" proves that Renda is willing to go to an all-syndicated format.
Does that mean they are going Air America? Who knows? It could very well mean WPTT is going to play songs like "The Star Spangled Banner" and "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" all day long.
If Pitt was willing to leave WTAE to go to KQV in '98, which has no better signal than WPTT, then I'm positive they would have considered a move to an all-sports WIXZ, especially if they were what the station was built around.
Renda just doesn't get sports. Had he put any money, any money whatsoever, into finding suitable talent for a drive-time talk show, I'm convinced it would have worked. I mean come on- the "talent" locally around that time was John Corby and Tom McMillan and Keidan. You're telling me that you couldn't find a host to go up against that?
No, they wouldn't have stolen the Pirates away from KDKA, but as I said, Pitt and NASCAR would get more of an audience than you'd ever imagine.
Furthermore, when WTAE went all sports- originally their programming didn't carry much ESPN. They had 'em on the weekend (I'm trying to remember- was ESPN even 24/7 back in those days?) but the syndicated part was filled with shows like "Ferrall on the Bench" and Sportsfan.
I don't see why ESPN Radio is such a great giant to slay. Of the three major syndicated networks I think Sporting News probably has the best talent, and FOX has the two most nationally-known shows in Jim Rome (technically Premier) and JT the Brick.
But the final point is just that "Prime Sports 1360" proves that Renda is willing to go to an all-syndicated format.
Does that mean they are going Air America? Who knows? It could very well mean WPTT is going to play songs like "The Star Spangled Banner" and "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" all day long.
J
JohnnyMorganWXJX
Guest
Re: Going on-
> And I'm sorry, but what's with lumping all rock fans
> together as blue collar slobs?
>
> I'd continue, but, naturally, I have to go find out if my
> wife has left me an orange in my lunchbox.
Those aren't my words; that's the perception that prevails in Pittsburgh and outside of Pittsburgh (I've lived in Pittsburgh and seen/heard it--I've lived in Cleveland and seen/heard it about Pittsburgh).
And I never even hinted that they were blue collar slobs--thanks for putting words in my mouth.
> Same with 3WS. I don't listen to it much, but when I have I have heard
> classic rock from bands such as The Troggs and The Stones and Roy Orbison.
>
> Basicly, I think there's a big difference between 3WS- Star 100.7 to WSHH and > Lite Rock. You're talking about something that is listenable to elevator
> music. I'm not sure that you can lump all of them together.
If you went into an audience survey, or any radio programmer's office, and said the Troggs and Roy Orbison, they wouldn't call it classic rock. You may find a few who would call it "rock n' roll," but no one--listeners or otherwise--call that rock.
I'm not disagreeing that there's a difference between 3WS/Star and Wish/Lite Rock. But they are closer together than 3WS is to DVE (or K-Rock to Star).
Also, "elevator music"?--come on! Wish is doing something, female AC, that has garnered #1 ratings in Cleveland (WDOK), and high marks in places like LA (Big 104).
Also, the average country rating (Y108 and Froggies) 12+: 3.97
Taking out the outliers (Rock, WRRK; AC, Lite Rock), the average rating is:
Rock 5.0
AC 4.97
Overall, AC still wins by a healthy 0.12 ratings points (0.15 - 0.03).
But this does prove something: country isn't nearly the force it thinks it is.
One more note: my calculations were based on the Spring 05 Phase One numbers, which I mistakenly referred to as Winter Book 05. My apologies, but they were meant for illustrative purposes only.
> And I'm sorry, but what's with lumping all rock fans
> together as blue collar slobs?
>
> I'd continue, but, naturally, I have to go find out if my
> wife has left me an orange in my lunchbox.
Those aren't my words; that's the perception that prevails in Pittsburgh and outside of Pittsburgh (I've lived in Pittsburgh and seen/heard it--I've lived in Cleveland and seen/heard it about Pittsburgh).
And I never even hinted that they were blue collar slobs--thanks for putting words in my mouth.
> Same with 3WS. I don't listen to it much, but when I have I have heard
> classic rock from bands such as The Troggs and The Stones and Roy Orbison.
>
> Basicly, I think there's a big difference between 3WS- Star 100.7 to WSHH and > Lite Rock. You're talking about something that is listenable to elevator
> music. I'm not sure that you can lump all of them together.
If you went into an audience survey, or any radio programmer's office, and said the Troggs and Roy Orbison, they wouldn't call it classic rock. You may find a few who would call it "rock n' roll," but no one--listeners or otherwise--call that rock.
I'm not disagreeing that there's a difference between 3WS/Star and Wish/Lite Rock. But they are closer together than 3WS is to DVE (or K-Rock to Star).
Also, "elevator music"?--come on! Wish is doing something, female AC, that has garnered #1 ratings in Cleveland (WDOK), and high marks in places like LA (Big 104).
Also, the average country rating (Y108 and Froggies) 12+: 3.97
Taking out the outliers (Rock, WRRK; AC, Lite Rock), the average rating is:
Rock 5.0
AC 4.97
Overall, AC still wins by a healthy 0.12 ratings points (0.15 - 0.03).
But this does prove something: country isn't nearly the force it thinks it is.
One more note: my calculations were based on the Spring 05 Phase One numbers, which I mistakenly referred to as Winter Book 05. My apologies, but they were meant for illustrative purposes only.
A little history if you will
Actually, the Prime Sports Radio was the first moniker, carrying mostly Prime Sports fare as well as ESPN's Fabulous Sports babe. The station would later switch affiliations, going to just Sports Radio 1360, carrying still the Sportsbabe and programming from the now defunct Sportsfan Radio Network, which actually carried JT the Brick, but it was after WPTT would go off of the air at 1am. They added Bruce Keidan to the mix during this time, and Mark Madden actually filled in on occasion, when Bruce was off and Madden was still a free agent in the market.
When 1250 went all sports, they too would carry some of the Sportsfan programming (including JT's show) and they picked the Sportsbabe off of WPTT. This was probably the beginning of the end for 1360 as a sports talk station, losing their best known national program, as well as carrying some of the Sportsfan programming on the weekends at the very same time 1250 was carrying those shows on a better signal.
Actually, the Prime Sports Radio was the first moniker, carrying mostly Prime Sports fare as well as ESPN's Fabulous Sports babe. The station would later switch affiliations, going to just Sports Radio 1360, carrying still the Sportsbabe and programming from the now defunct Sportsfan Radio Network, which actually carried JT the Brick, but it was after WPTT would go off of the air at 1am. They added Bruce Keidan to the mix during this time, and Mark Madden actually filled in on occasion, when Bruce was off and Madden was still a free agent in the market.
When 1250 went all sports, they too would carry some of the Sportsfan programming (including JT's show) and they picked the Sportsbabe off of WPTT. This was probably the beginning of the end for 1360 as a sports talk station, losing their best known national program, as well as carrying some of the Sportsfan programming on the weekends at the very same time 1250 was carrying those shows on a better signal.
M
MadAirchecker
Guest
Re: Pittsburgh's Radio Conservatism (and I don't mean politics)
I remember years ago there was a magazine article on morning shows and similar points were made by Jim Quinn and O'Brien and Garry -- Pittsburgh might take a while to find you and accept you, but once you were "in," you were in for life. So if you could survive that slow start of finding an audience, you'd stand a good chance of having a loyal audience.
Pittsburgh is not a market where long-standing favorites are likely to get blown out by the flavor of the month. It will happen, but not often. If it does happen, there's a good chance the long-time favorite has been too complacent and suffered when an aggressive competitor came on the scene and did things significantly better (like KQV with 13Q in '73, like KDKA with 104.7 lately).
Funny thing about DVE and the hard-rocking image -- their biggest numbers have come at a time when they probably play less music than ever (morning show, Paulsen show, Steelers content).
I remember years ago there was a magazine article on morning shows and similar points were made by Jim Quinn and O'Brien and Garry -- Pittsburgh might take a while to find you and accept you, but once you were "in," you were in for life. So if you could survive that slow start of finding an audience, you'd stand a good chance of having a loyal audience.
Pittsburgh is not a market where long-standing favorites are likely to get blown out by the flavor of the month. It will happen, but not often. If it does happen, there's a good chance the long-time favorite has been too complacent and suffered when an aggressive competitor came on the scene and did things significantly better (like KQV with 13Q in '73, like KDKA with 104.7 lately).
Funny thing about DVE and the hard-rocking image -- their biggest numbers have come at a time when they probably play less music than ever (morning show, Paulsen show, Steelers content).
I do remember that-
And to be honest with you- if your two big hosts were Bruce Keidan and The Fabulous Sports Cow- you have to wonder what they were thinking.
No wonder it failed.
And to be honest with you- if your two big hosts were Bruce Keidan and The Fabulous Sports Cow- you have to wonder what they were thinking.
No wonder it failed.
M
MadAirchecker
Guest
Re: I do remember that-
> And to be honest with you- if your two big hosts were Bruce
> Keidan and The Fabulous Sports Cow- you have to wonder what
> they were thinking.
>
> No wonder it failed.
>
Yeah, they should have had Kevin Henry and Phil Elson in those slots.
> And to be honest with you- if your two big hosts were Bruce
> Keidan and The Fabulous Sports Cow- you have to wonder what
> they were thinking.
>
> No wonder it failed.
>
Yeah, they should have had Kevin Henry and Phil Elson in those slots.
Uh, wait a minute-
My God- you made points saying "Pittsburgh isn't a steel mill town anymore" and then heavily implied that because it was going high-tech it was an elevator music town.
Or A/C as the case may be.
Roy Orbison isn't rock?
The Troggs aren't rock?
Two of the greatest rock guitar riffs of all time are "Pretty Woman" and "Wild Thing."
Slash has done covers of Wild Thing. David Lee Roth has done covers of Pretty Woman.
That sounds pretty rock to me.
Also- I took my ratings from Spring as well.
Admittedly, I didn't include the two stations nobody listened to with Froggy. It's hard to figure out- since they have four stations and two sets of ratings- what their number really is. So country is big time- trust me- nobody in Uniontown is listening to pop music.
But let's safely say that if you do your format mixture- dubious as it is- and get a real rating for Froggy- then you'd have a variety of tastes but no real leader.
Still, four rock stations (assuming that's what you call WRRK) with two AC stations mixing in rock tells me all I need to know where the city's true tastes lie.
My God- you made points saying "Pittsburgh isn't a steel mill town anymore" and then heavily implied that because it was going high-tech it was an elevator music town.
Or A/C as the case may be.
Roy Orbison isn't rock?
The Troggs aren't rock?
Two of the greatest rock guitar riffs of all time are "Pretty Woman" and "Wild Thing."
Slash has done covers of Wild Thing. David Lee Roth has done covers of Pretty Woman.
That sounds pretty rock to me.
Also- I took my ratings from Spring as well.
Admittedly, I didn't include the two stations nobody listened to with Froggy. It's hard to figure out- since they have four stations and two sets of ratings- what their number really is. So country is big time- trust me- nobody in Uniontown is listening to pop music.
But let's safely say that if you do your format mixture- dubious as it is- and get a real rating for Froggy- then you'd have a variety of tastes but no real leader.
Still, four rock stations (assuming that's what you call WRRK) with two AC stations mixing in rock tells me all I need to know where the city's true tastes lie.
Re: I do remember that-
Well, the other way didn't work- and considering their success elsewhere . . .
Well, the other way didn't work- and considering their success elsewhere . . .
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