Took a look at the spring book for both markets, and was surprised by some of the gains and declines seen there. For example, WHBC/1480 lost significant ground, as did sister station 94.1. Meanwhile, WHOF/101.7 grabbed the ratings crown. Your thoughts?
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Akron/Canton ratings
- Thread starter static_cling
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As goes Fred Chenevey, so goes the ratings, and if you couple that with their N/T lib "light" programming (with the exception of Miller) and their skeleton crew of a news team, then doom is in the air....and HOF took their chapter from the Terry Simmons programming book-musically, anyway-and ran with what Hunter Scott and Larry Gawthrop/Rich Bossler gave them after they took a dull butter knife to an FM heritage station.
Oh, everyone will decry the 12+, but those 12+s used to be in the double digits for both HBC stations. You can't be high in the demo and have those low, low 12+s. They kept picking and picking and picking, and now there's no stopping the bleeding.
Oh, everyone will decry the 12+, but those 12+s used to be in the double digits for both HBC stations. You can't be high in the demo and have those low, low 12+s. They kept picking and picking and picking, and now there's no stopping the bleeding.
Next Media paid $43 million for 2 radio stations in the 102nd radio market.
That's possibly the most extreme over-pay for two radio stations I've ever heard of...even though it happened before the most-recent recession.
I'll bet the Beaverkettle folks cashed the Next Media check as fast as they could. They won the lottery, for sure.
The expectations because of the initial price are absurd, and really unfair to the staff in Canton.
That's possibly the most extreme over-pay for two radio stations I've ever heard of...even though it happened before the most-recent recession.
I'll bet the Beaverkettle folks cashed the Next Media check as fast as they could. They won the lottery, for sure.
The expectations because of the initial price are absurd, and really unfair to the staff in Canton.
Things can't be good at WHBC. We are paying $10 for morning drive, on the FM. By comparison we are paying on average $40 more per spot on WHOF, WDJQ and WRQK. During periods of high demand it can be quite a bit more, yet WHBC still sells cheap. Most of the time a bonus schedule of equal spots is offered. It was explained that as long as traditional Canton advertisers are still heard on WHBC creates a comfort level for the audience, even if they are making zero on it. I'm not making that up, almost verbatim from a sales rep.
Apparently they are not capable of managing inventory or understanding simple supply and demand. When we place a schedule it almost feels criminal. Almost.
The bigger problem is the ROI when placing ads. Results are nowhere near what the other stations deliver.
Apparently they are not capable of managing inventory or understanding simple supply and demand. When we place a schedule it almost feels criminal. Almost.
The bigger problem is the ROI when placing ads. Results are nowhere near what the other stations deliver.
Good for WHOF. They seem to do even better after Gary Rivers' abrupt departure. Their music playlist is pretty good as well.
I guess WHBC-AM listeners aren't feeling the new morning team. Hopefully the listeners who left will come back.
Now that WHBC-FM has a PD, they might rebound in the ratings. They need to not be a copy of WDJQ.
I guess WHBC-AM listeners aren't feeling the new morning team. Hopefully the listeners who left will come back.
Now that WHBC-FM has a PD, they might rebound in the ratings. They need to not be a copy of WDJQ.
The Terry Simmons programming book? You mean the book that says try to sleep with your female cohost..which cost NextMedia somewhere between a half million and a million to settle? You mean the programming book that decided that no switch to ABC was made on 9/11, cause we don't want to be "The Downer Station", which resulted in their first book of disaster?
Yeah, that programming book..Jesus Christ, that's too funny..
NextMedia has to make the call now..switch the AM Talk Format to FM..and run the AM as an all sports..that way, you can carry the Browns on FM, leave the Tribe on AM, and run a high school football game on the FM..you'd likely save around a quarter million, and maybe more, since you no longer need to pay music royalties...or FM jocks..
Yeah, that programming book..Jesus Christ, that's too funny..
NextMedia has to make the call now..switch the AM Talk Format to FM..and run the AM as an all sports..that way, you can carry the Browns on FM, leave the Tribe on AM, and run a high school football game on the FM..you'd likely save around a quarter million, and maybe more, since you no longer need to pay music royalties...or FM jocks..
I'd flip 94.1 to country.
K105 is taking too much money from Nextmedia.
K105 is taking too much money from Nextmedia.
Country seems to be a very loyal format...with loyal listeners, right?
WQXK has been strong in Canton for about 25 years.
Other nearby country music stations: WQXK 104.5 Wooster, WTUZ 99.9 New Philadelphia, and WQMX 94.9 Medina-Akron are all strong in their markets....so, there's no shortage of country radio easily listenable in Canton.
Would a Canton-based, "Canton's own" country station make a difference? Might be a brilliant idea.
WQXK has been strong in Canton for about 25 years.
Other nearby country music stations: WQXK 104.5 Wooster, WTUZ 99.9 New Philadelphia, and WQMX 94.9 Medina-Akron are all strong in their markets....so, there's no shortage of country radio easily listenable in Canton.
Would a Canton-based, "Canton's own" country station make a difference? Might be a brilliant idea.
K105 wins country by default. They talk about Youngstown, they feature Youngstown advertisers etc. Canton might as well be an island. They don't associate with Akron, let alone some exotic land such as Youngstown. WQMX is Akron. If a country station targeted Canton, I'm sure they could win, eventually.
Look at WHOF. Nobody thought it would topple WHBC. It wasn't a topple, it was a destruction. (some selfimplosion too) The station seems very simple in their mission. Be Canton and Stark County. You can hear that on 101.7, you can't on 94.1 at the moment. WHBC-FM sounds like a station from any city in any state.
If a country station focused hard core on Canton, and took the position, we are not Youngstown but Canton, they'd sway a few folks their way. Canton needs a cheerleader and if a country station stood up and said we are proud to be from Canton, that generates loyalty.
Look at WHOF. Nobody thought it would topple WHBC. It wasn't a topple, it was a destruction. (some selfimplosion too) The station seems very simple in their mission. Be Canton and Stark County. You can hear that on 101.7, you can't on 94.1 at the moment. WHBC-FM sounds like a station from any city in any state.
If a country station focused hard core on Canton, and took the position, we are not Youngstown but Canton, they'd sway a few folks their way. Canton needs a cheerleader and if a country station stood up and said we are proud to be from Canton, that generates loyalty.
Wait, just read this again. Are you telling me WHBC-fm played music after the attacks on 9/11 rather than news coverage to not be a downer?
If that's true, that is the single most idiotic programming statement in the history of radio ' secondary only to "here read this card."
If that's true, that is the single most idiotic programming statement in the history of radio ' secondary only to "here read this card."
You know, I know K105 is a Youngstown station, basically, and pays very little attention to Stark County.
But it blasts into the entire Canton area and used to sell there (before 'RQK got split off to Clear Channel and Martindale got abandoned)(give or take a rat or two and the 1520 transmitter).
I'm not sure how much the Youngstown spots turn off people just looking for the latest from Taylor Swift, on a superpower station you can get in your toaster oven in Canton.
And WQMX is definitely "Akron's Own Country" (a slogan they've used), but even today, their sung legal ID is "WQMX...Medina, Akron, Canton!". (Though of course, they're technically licensed to a city in the Cleveland market.)
They pay only slightly more attention to Canton than WQXK does, but again, if you're just looking for Taylor Swift music, 94.9 has it in spades, and is particularly strong in northern Stark County/Jackson Twp. and other areas closely associated with southern Summit County.
Is there an on-air hole for "Canton's Own Country"? Perhaps, but it'll be a battle with those two stations (and a bit to the west with WQKT, which has a lot of western Stark listeners and even some advertisers out that way).
But it blasts into the entire Canton area and used to sell there (before 'RQK got split off to Clear Channel and Martindale got abandoned)(give or take a rat or two and the 1520 transmitter).
I'm not sure how much the Youngstown spots turn off people just looking for the latest from Taylor Swift, on a superpower station you can get in your toaster oven in Canton.
And WQMX is definitely "Akron's Own Country" (a slogan they've used), but even today, their sung legal ID is "WQMX...Medina, Akron, Canton!". (Though of course, they're technically licensed to a city in the Cleveland market.
)They pay only slightly more attention to Canton than WQXK does, but again, if you're just looking for Taylor Swift music, 94.9 has it in spades, and is particularly strong in northern Stark County/Jackson Twp. and other areas closely associated with southern Summit County.
Is there an on-air hole for "Canton's Own Country"? Perhaps, but it'll be a battle with those two stations (and a bit to the west with WQKT, which has a lot of western Stark listeners and even some advertisers out that way).
A Canton country station?
95.9 in New Philly tried to be "Canton Country" in the 80's, but the signal in much of Stark County wasn't that great....still, they did get some notice back then.
WHBC-FM has been squeezed by WKDD's hot AC/adult top 40 (whatever) & sister station WHOF, the the internal pressure to over produce. So, sure...maybe country would be a good choice for 94.1.
95.9 in New Philly tried to be "Canton Country" in the 80's, but the signal in much of Stark County wasn't that great....still, they did get some notice back then.
WHBC-FM has been squeezed by WKDD's hot AC/adult top 40 (whatever) & sister station WHOF, the the internal pressure to over produce. So, sure...maybe country would be a good choice for 94.1.
John Baylor said:
Idiotic? Perhaps, but as Johnny Mathis once sang, "it's not for me to say." Yes indeed, 94.1 stuck to its regular playlist on 9/11. Those who were there will probably say that it was done as a respite from the wall-to-wall coverage heard on WHBC/1480 and elsewhere.
Tim-
That's like saying congrats you received a participation trophy.
I buy ads in Canton. NOBODY in the agency buys anything on 25-54 women. We still place orders on 25-54 persons, or 18-49 persons. Period.
They keep telling us to look at their 18-34 numbers. I can buy #1, #2 and #3 in that demo and still miss 94.1. In Canton if you aren't #1 or #2, you aren't getting the buy. You can buy 1 or 2 Akron stations and 1 Canton station and get the audience you need all without ever running a single ad on 1480 or 94.1.
That's like saying congrats you received a participation trophy.
I buy ads in Canton. NOBODY in the agency buys anything on 25-54 women. We still place orders on 25-54 persons, or 18-49 persons. Period.
They keep telling us to look at their 18-34 numbers. I can buy #1, #2 and #3 in that demo and still miss 94.1. In Canton if you aren't #1 or #2, you aren't getting the buy. You can buy 1 or 2 Akron stations and 1 Canton station and get the audience you need all without ever running a single ad on 1480 or 94.1.
Sure...it's possible to buy around just about anybody.
John...perhaps you buy for a lot of male-oriented or 50%-50% adult-oriented clients in 2011.
25-54 women isn't the most frequently requested demo for agency buys??? Wow...that's the first time in 15 or 20 years I've heard that statement! Amazing.
John...perhaps you buy for a lot of male-oriented or 50%-50% adult-oriented clients in 2011.
25-54 women isn't the most frequently requested demo for agency buys??? Wow...that's the first time in 15 or 20 years I've heard that statement! Amazing.
Tim- Canton is almost 15-20 years behind the rest of the world.
Speaker of Truth said:
Please: what person who've ever worked in radio hasn't tried to get a little strange on the side...men OR women?
I'll beg to differ on this one, if you'd go back and look at this (I'm sure they're available). Numbers were in the double digits across the board (except the very low males and the very high males) before the Fall 2001 book and were just fine Spring 2002..this was not the problem (and ABC news, while not wall to wall on the FM at that time, was top and bottom of hour for 5 days after 9/11/01-additionally, cross promotion to 1480 for wall to wall was mentioned every break). Problem has been, slowly but surely, the younger music skew (al la DJQ..and if anyone cares to admit it, the stuff HOF has played since they signed on is EXACTLY what 94.1 was playing before Hunter Scott stuck his grubby little fingers in it) and the "whoops...we tried to be Cleveland and forgot we were Canton" attitude ate away at the foundation of the station. 3 or 4 different PDs in 4 years-from out of the area, mind you, which in Canton makes a whole HOST of difference-ain't helpin' either.
They forgot they were a Canton station. They forgot how to have natural fun. They're no longer organic. In a market as simple as Canton, it's as simple as that. Anyone who's worked there can tell you that.
Get all the strange you want..just don't sh!t where you eat..when you do that, and somebody lowers the boom, you don't recover..period..
There was a small recovery in Spring 2002..but there was an audience erosion that began in that time frame and was never stemmed..Mix tried giving away cars, money, and everything they could think of--and it didn't work..
I wasn't around for the Hunter Scott Era, as NextMedia's desperation strated showing...and since I don't menstrate, and I'm not a practicing gay male, I wasn't part of their demographic to begin with--I can't speak with any certainty as to what went wrong and why during that point in the storyline..
"They forgot to have natural fun"...just what the hell does that mean anyway?
"They're no longer organic"...huh?
Please explain..You're losing me..
There was a small recovery in Spring 2002..but there was an audience erosion that began in that time frame and was never stemmed..Mix tried giving away cars, money, and everything they could think of--and it didn't work..
I wasn't around for the Hunter Scott Era, as NextMedia's desperation strated showing...and since I don't menstrate, and I'm not a practicing gay male, I wasn't part of their demographic to begin with--I can't speak with any certainty as to what went wrong and why during that point in the storyline..
"They forgot to have natural fun"...just what the hell does that mean anyway?
"They're no longer organic"...huh?
Please explain..You're losing me..
X
X-Nooz
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Both stations have sucked to different degrees for a long, long time, but at least there was a genuine feeling that they cared about serving the community. Now, they keep on sucking, but for the sole purpose of shipping boxes of money back to Colorado. Or wherever the hell it goes these days.
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