I'm not aware of payoffs being made to broadcast executives in the 80s. Yes, some requirements were lifted. Many seem to believe that if the rules and ownershoip limits stayed what they were in the 70s, we'd have radio exactly as it was done in then 70s with turntables, DJs reading lame jokes from O'Liners over intros, tons of local news whether the audience wanted it or not, and all kinds pf eclectic formats (which didn't reeally happen...you were more likely to have three beautiful music stations in a market). My thoughts are that things would be much the same as they are now no matter what happened. There'd be voice tracking companies, news requirements fulfilled at 3am, and pretty much the same or fewer formats.
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borderblaster said:
There are a bazillion music geeks out there. That's why they listen to their iPods. Because Radio does not give them what they want.
jfrancispastirchak said:
The previous station owners are Retired. People age! They sell off their stations.
Where are the stations? The suits bought them.
Maybe there are a bazillion music geeks with iPods. Their iPods are programmed specifically for that individual. Why would they want to listen to 1000 people's iPods all merged together. People want what they want when they want it, they aren't going to sit through 100 songs to hear a cut from the album they bought in 1972 that they liked but got no airplay. You want an expensive hobby? I can think of several AMs you could buy, and of course the internet. If you have to make a living you have to find an audience that usually likes the same several hundred songs, or at least you can only get this demographic to agree on a few hundred songs.
borderblaster said:
I disagree. These people USED to listen to radio before its homogenization. They were chased off kinda like what Raid does to ants when sprayed. The suits and their 20 same songs retired many radio listeners. The suits swear by there **** formats. But they never talk about the core audience and how it has shrunk. It's too difficult to create new formats and innovation and it takes too much time to get grow an audience, so they say. Just spew the same garbage and fire all of the talent all over the country in the name of the stock holders and shrink the core. It's radio in the short term.
By the way, I own 3 FM's already in Cincinnati. I work them full time, make a good living, have sponsors and listeners and we ARE growing with our format that only exists in Cincinnati.
When you beat WEBN, let me know, and maybe I'll believe that the way to number one is playing all-unfamiliar, all the time. Maybe you are the only one who gets this and all those money hungy corporate owners would be just raking in the dough if they just played 100000 titles. We'll see.
Border I would have thought by now that you would have caught that I don't give a drip about Ratings or WEBN. I only care about reaching our listeners and making them happy. WEBN has a pattern of dropping in ratings and have been for some time. I don't buy into the whole arbitron garbage. It only works because that's what everyone uses because that's all there is. We both know that that system is riddled with flaws, lots of them. All a sponsor is after is results. If you can provide them, you have a customer. We have plenty of them.
W
waxonwaxoff
Guest
Wow, what an interesting discussion. With all due respect, I think RockNuts is spot on. First of all, I don't think at any point did he say he only plays obscure material. I think what he is saying is you will hear some of the popular standards but also some deep cuts and if someone like Alice Cooper, Ted Nugent, the Scorpions, etc. puts out a good, decent song he is not afraid to play it on one of his stations and let the auidence decide if they like something or not. The old adage that the reason something is not a hit is because radio won't play it, is true.
Only one station is going to be number one. There are a variety of reasons for that including signal, advertising, etc. That means that other stations with similar formats need to find a way to find their own auidence. In this case because I despise how generic many classic rock stations are, I am going to listen to one of RockNuts stations if I lived in the area because I would much rather listen to a station that is going to play a couple of standards, and then throw in a deeper cut or two, and some new music by a veteran artist. That is much more entertaining radio. If you have three stations that all the same you aren't likely to switch the channel.
Only one station is going to be number one. There are a variety of reasons for that including signal, advertising, etc. That means that other stations with similar formats need to find a way to find their own auidence. In this case because I despise how generic many classic rock stations are, I am going to listen to one of RockNuts stations if I lived in the area because I would much rather listen to a station that is going to play a couple of standards, and then throw in a deeper cut or two, and some new music by a veteran artist. That is much more entertaining radio. If you have three stations that all the same you aren't likely to switch the channel.
waxonwaxoff said:
I like you Wax. You get it!
Hey waxonwaxoff, do you know you can listen to RockNuts' stations online and on smart phones? You don't have to be local to enjoy the best album rock station on the planet! www.classxradio.com
This station is growing like crazy in Cincinnati, but it is also raising eyebrows around the globe. People in many major US markets as well as in other countries rave about how ClassX is better than anything on their local dial.
This station is growing like crazy in Cincinnati, but it is also raising eyebrows around the globe. People in many major US markets as well as in other countries rave about how ClassX is better than anything on their local dial.
RockNuts! said:
There are millions that love music. And the "new" model is that they have to "pay" to listen to the music that they love (ie, i-Tunes, Sat Radio).
But, then there are tens of millions, that will only listen to free radio, and.or can only afford free radio, and that mass audience, will listen to whatever junk is played to them.
And so, corporate conglomerate radio, had tuned it's craft to efficiently deliver the junk, to stations and markets and demos, all over the Nation. They're doing their advertisers (who want to reach the masses that will settle to listen to junk) a big service.
If free radio music station all went away tomorrow, I would not care, or shed a tear. They provide NO service of any kind to me.
My tastes are mainstream, I just like something other than the 200 songs that the masses feel "comfortable" with....
Who know, maybe the streaming of internet radio to the car will be able to be done without break-up as you drive around the city. I just haven't taken the time to invest in that. Good Music on OTA radio is such a thing of the PAST... But I remember it well, when, you really could turn on the FM radio and listen for hours, and NOT be offended ONCE, by obnoxious adds or songs. You get used to something like that quickly, and you NEVER want it to go away.
But, alas, it has gone away, and there no way for it to return.
Corporate radio is firmly and solidly entrenched in playing junk, for the masses, and that's it --- Case Closed.
100% Correct Rover. Sad.
A relatively accurate, but painfully simplistic answer. Plenty of programmers & managers from the old era continue thriving in the media today, only in different capacities. Yes, many have "retired" and/or "sold". But many also run production studios. Some are consultants. I actually agree with your industry ideology. The business has corrupted itself, and that's a consensus playing out on at least one other RadioInfo thread. Realistically though, the cheaper, cookie cutter quality of today's radio is testimony to a market that has evolved, if only for the worse. Like it or not, station owners, albeit the corporate "suits", have no choice but to evolve as well, in order to stay solvent.RockNuts! said:
Now, getting back to Alice Cooper...
jfrancispastirchak said:
The New Alice Cooper ROCKS! A killer album. Deserves mass exposure.
Tom Wells said:RockNuts! said:
Flabbergasted and speechless in awe of blinding light:
Owwww !
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waxonwaxoff
Guest
Rocknuts, I agree. Alice's new album is all over the place musicially and it is a fun album to listen to. That was the purpose of my thread and I was just using him as an example. I went and saw one of his shows a few years ago and was amazed at how good he still is live. You would have thought he was still 30 years old. I know, mainly because of radio, people tend to only want to focus on his early and mid 70's stuff, but he has put out some really good albums in recent years such as the new one or The Last Temptation (great, great album). I remember when he put out an album called Brutal Planet. It was heavy and just a wonderful album that had a good modern rock sound. I called in and requested it and the dee jay told me "We all agree it rocks, but Alice is a 70's artist." I thought to myself what difference should that make? The deejay admitted that he and apparently management loved the album, yet they refused to give it even one play. How do they know their auidence wouldn't like it?
I guess what gets me is the inconsistency of it all. I heard Van Halen's new single the other day on the radio and thought it was awful. Van Halen have been around forever and let's not forget the last studio album they did with Cherone on vocals did absolutely nothing, yet because it is Van Halen a New Rock station is going to automatically play it, while if Ted Nugent puts out a new album he is automatically dismissed even if it sounded better than Cat Scratch Fever. Why does Ozzy Osbourne still get his new stuff played even though most fans and casual fans haven't really liked anything he has done since No More Tears. His record sales have always been rapidly declining in recent years (not meant as a potshot and I know sales are pitiful across the board).
Getting back to Alice, here is a guy who still puts out enjoyable music, still sounds the same vocally, is a rock n roll hall of famer and still gets a fair amount of radio airplay in regards to a few of his hits. Why do some get a pass and others don't? As I said before, why is it that a band like Autograph gets "Turn Up the Radio" still played on classic rock even though they weren't that popular even when the hair bands were big, while a band like Winger who had several popular songs never get heard because they are too much of a hair band?
I guess what gets me is the inconsistency of it all. I heard Van Halen's new single the other day on the radio and thought it was awful. Van Halen have been around forever and let's not forget the last studio album they did with Cherone on vocals did absolutely nothing, yet because it is Van Halen a New Rock station is going to automatically play it, while if Ted Nugent puts out a new album he is automatically dismissed even if it sounded better than Cat Scratch Fever. Why does Ozzy Osbourne still get his new stuff played even though most fans and casual fans haven't really liked anything he has done since No More Tears. His record sales have always been rapidly declining in recent years (not meant as a potshot and I know sales are pitiful across the board).
Getting back to Alice, here is a guy who still puts out enjoyable music, still sounds the same vocally, is a rock n roll hall of famer and still gets a fair amount of radio airplay in regards to a few of his hits. Why do some get a pass and others don't? As I said before, why is it that a band like Autograph gets "Turn Up the Radio" still played on classic rock even though they weren't that popular even when the hair bands were big, while a band like Winger who had several popular songs never get heard because they are too much of a hair band?
Wax I feel your pain. I really do. The answer, simple. Radio abandoned the AOR format. It was THE rock format and IMO is still THE rock format. Everything else will fade and mostly will be forgotten. Why was AOR so successful? Because the songs were Melodic and make sense to the brain of those listening. Melodic Rock makes you want to crank the volume. It makes you want to sing out loud when you are driving down the road. It makes you HAPPY and it makes you forget your troubles, if for just a brief amount of time.
I am doing my part to have the attitude of "Screw the rules" of what Modern Day Rock Radio has. I'm completely ignoring them and as a programmer and owner of 3 AOR/Melodic Rock stations, I am doing it the old way. I don't need someone else to "think" for me. I make my own decisions with blinders on! I've never been a follower, but rather an innovator.
You are 100% correct! If you play it, people will like it. It's real simple. Playing it is not risky. My proof is the crap being played these days, and people actually listen to it? OMG! They will listen to anything. Think about it. But give them something completely different, it might take a while to simmer, but eventually, people will listen in droves, because they like "Different". They really do. Especially these days.
Our audience is growing like crazy as a result. I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but listeners in Cincinnati, WANT IT! We're giving it to them!
I am doing my part to have the attitude of "Screw the rules" of what Modern Day Rock Radio has. I'm completely ignoring them and as a programmer and owner of 3 AOR/Melodic Rock stations, I am doing it the old way. I don't need someone else to "think" for me. I make my own decisions with blinders on! I've never been a follower, but rather an innovator.
You are 100% correct! If you play it, people will like it. It's real simple. Playing it is not risky. My proof is the crap being played these days, and people actually listen to it? OMG! They will listen to anything. Think about it. But give them something completely different, it might take a while to simmer, but eventually, people will listen in droves, because they like "Different". They really do. Especially these days.
Our audience is growing like crazy as a result. I'm not sure about the rest of the country, but listeners in Cincinnati, WANT IT! We're giving it to them!
waxonwaxoff said:
The Media Corporate Complex recognizes that Ozzy, and his wife, and his family, have mass appeal, due to their television shows.
IF the Van Halens, and IF Alice Cooper, would STOOP to doing reality TV, well then, they too would be deemed worthy of iarplay, because their mass appeal. Because nothing generates the Lowest Common Denominator, like a reality show does. Lowest Common Denominator.
It's that Simple, imo.
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