R
rbrucecarter
Guest
I just talked to a guy doing a remote for Radio Disney and he confirmed that all ABC stations will be converted to IBOC. Right now KMKI has IBOC in mono - no stereo.
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J
_Jim
Guest
> I just talked to a guy doing a remote for Radio Disney and
> he confirmed that all ABC stations will be converted to
> IBOC. Right now KMKI has IBOC in mono - no stereo.
>
A 'guy doing a remote'?
I guess that's a pretty reputable source there Bruce!
Regards, _Jim
> he confirmed that all ABC stations will be converted to
> IBOC. Right now KMKI has IBOC in mono - no stereo.
>
A 'guy doing a remote'?
I guess that's a pretty reputable source there Bruce!
Regards, _Jim
P
Phantom
Guest
> > I just talked to a guy doing a remote for Radio Disney and
>
> > he confirmed that all ABC stations will be converted to
> > IBOC. Right now KMKI has IBOC in mono - no stereo.
> >
>
> A 'guy doing a remote'?
>
> I guess that's a pretty reputable source there Bruce!
>
> Regards, _Jim
Well, bad news does travel fast.
>
> > he confirmed that all ABC stations will be converted to
> > IBOC. Right now KMKI has IBOC in mono - no stereo.
> >
>
> A 'guy doing a remote'?
>
> I guess that's a pretty reputable source there Bruce!
>
> Regards, _Jim
Well, bad news does travel fast.
T
TironeShoes
Guest
The sound on 620 is downright horrid...how could anyone sans an hd unit even want to listen?<P ID="signature">______________
WG</P>
WG</P>
B
bluescreen
Guest
Twister's been running a sweeper saying they're broadcasting in digital...are they? If so talk about pimping a jalopy. Now they're really wasting the signal.
R
rbrucecarter
Guest
Re: ALL ABC stations in DFW to be IBOC - CONFIRMED
> The sound on 620 is downright horrid...how could anyone sans
> an hd unit even want to listen?
I noticed that yesterday - they are back to just cruddy analog bandwidth instead of distorted. Every once in a while, KMKI audio goes completely sour, distorted as heck. You have to wonder what their sidebands are like when the audio is that bad - I bet they are out of spec. It would be better to go silent until it is fixed than broadcast audio that distorted.
Radio World confirms that KMKI, KSCS, KTYS, and KESN are all going to convert. My source at the KMKI remote also mentioned WBAP.
ESPN sports radio in digital, now THAT is a good format to make full use of digital quality. We can now hear fans screaming in stereo with all overtones up to 20 kHz instead of 15 kHz. And CD quality on all phone in shows.
Am I the only one to think that IBOC is totally stupid for sports and talk formats.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Bruce Carter on 06/06/05 08:34 PM.</FONT></P>
> The sound on 620 is downright horrid...how could anyone sans
> an hd unit even want to listen?
I noticed that yesterday - they are back to just cruddy analog bandwidth instead of distorted. Every once in a while, KMKI audio goes completely sour, distorted as heck. You have to wonder what their sidebands are like when the audio is that bad - I bet they are out of spec. It would be better to go silent until it is fixed than broadcast audio that distorted.
Radio World confirms that KMKI, KSCS, KTYS, and KESN are all going to convert. My source at the KMKI remote also mentioned WBAP.
ESPN sports radio in digital, now THAT is a good format to make full use of digital quality. We can now hear fans screaming in stereo with all overtones up to 20 kHz instead of 15 kHz. And CD quality on all phone in shows.
Am I the only one to think that IBOC is totally stupid for sports and talk formats.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Bruce Carter on 06/06/05 08:34 PM.</FONT></P>
J
_Jim
Guest
Re: ALL ABC stations in DFW to be IBOC - CONFIRMED
> Radio World confirms that KMKI ... going to convert
A 'little behind the curve' aren't they?
KMKI is already converted, and has been operating HD hybrid IBOC (in
case anybody did't know that already) for a month or so now.
I even noticed that KMKI must have notified the FCC they are now digital,
whereas a month back they had not notified them.
Regards, _Jim
> Radio World confirms that KMKI ... going to convert
A 'little behind the curve' aren't they?
KMKI is already converted, and has been operating HD hybrid IBOC (in
case anybody did't know that already) for a month or so now.
I even noticed that KMKI must have notified the FCC they are now digital,
whereas a month back they had not notified them.
Regards, _Jim
C
CW
Guest
Re: ALL ABC stations in DFW to be IBOC - CONFIRMED
> ESPN sports radio in digital, now THAT is a good format to
> make full use of digital quality. We can now hear fans
> screaming in stereo with all overtones up to 20 kHz instead
> of 15 kHz. And CD quality on all phone in shows.
CD?? HUH??? CD quality is 44.1kHz sampling at 16 bit and UNCompressed....IBOC is NONE of those
It may have 20 kHz audio bandwidth but then so does static out of a FM rcvr....
> Am I the only one to think that IBOC is totally stupid for
> sports and talk formats.
Not at all....ANYONE with half a mind thinks its stupid...a waste...
and if you try to listen to IBOC at a live sports happening, forget that with the 7-8 sec delay (the answer so far to that? turn off IBOC and go analog...DUH!!! Thats a real good one!)
> ESPN sports radio in digital, now THAT is a good format to
> make full use of digital quality. We can now hear fans
> screaming in stereo with all overtones up to 20 kHz instead
> of 15 kHz. And CD quality on all phone in shows.
CD?? HUH??? CD quality is 44.1kHz sampling at 16 bit and UNCompressed....IBOC is NONE of those
It may have 20 kHz audio bandwidth but then so does static out of a FM rcvr....> Am I the only one to think that IBOC is totally stupid for
> sports and talk formats.
Not at all....ANYONE with half a mind thinks its stupid...a waste...
and if you try to listen to IBOC at a live sports happening, forget that with the 7-8 sec delay (the answer so far to that? turn off IBOC and go analog...DUH!!! Thats a real good one!)
R
rbrucecarter
Guest
Re: ALL ABC stations in DFW to be IBOC - CONFIRMED
My contact there said that the music is still in mono, and they will start broadcasting in stereo soon. Apparently they are planning some publicity about it. I wonder if the mouse is coming out with a line of cheap IBOC radios - which would be a pretty slick move if they do. All those worthless AM's they bought up - broadcasting near CD quality music, and parents getting birthday and Christmas wish lists containing IBOC radios so the kids can listen to the music in CD quality stereo. It could happen I suppose. Price will be critical - if they get it considerably under $100, I might buy one myself.
My contact there said that the music is still in mono, and they will start broadcasting in stereo soon. Apparently they are planning some publicity about it. I wonder if the mouse is coming out with a line of cheap IBOC radios - which would be a pretty slick move if they do. All those worthless AM's they bought up - broadcasting near CD quality music, and parents getting birthday and Christmas wish lists containing IBOC radios so the kids can listen to the music in CD quality stereo. It could happen I suppose. Price will be critical - if they get it considerably under $100, I might buy one myself.
J
johnsummers
Guest
Re: Is IBOC for real?
> >
I realize I'm showing my lack of technical expertise here, but here goes...
Has anyone ben able to show, quantifiably, that IBOC FM sounds better than traditional analog FM. I have my doubts. Especially since the digital satellite broadcasts I've heard don't seem to sound as good as terrestrial FM. I'm just a bit suspicious. Maybe one of our more technically knowledgeable posters (Bruce, Jim) can enighten me. Thanks.
> >
I realize I'm showing my lack of technical expertise here, but here goes...
Has anyone ben able to show, quantifiably, that IBOC FM sounds better than traditional analog FM. I have my doubts. Especially since the digital satellite broadcasts I've heard don't seem to sound as good as terrestrial FM. I'm just a bit suspicious. Maybe one of our more technically knowledgeable posters (Bruce, Jim) can enighten me. Thanks.
P
Part-timer
Guest
Re: Is IBOC for real?
> > >
> I realize I'm showing my lack of technical expertise here,
> but here goes...
> Has anyone ben able to show, quantifiably, that IBOC FM
> sounds better than traditional analog FM. I have my doubts.
> Especially since the digital satellite broadcasts I've heard
> don't seem to sound as good as terrestrial FM. I'm just a
> bit suspicious. Maybe one of our more technically
> knowledgeable posters (Bruce, Jim) can enighten me. Thanks.
>
John,
I can't quantify it but have heard demos and there's a definite difference. FM will be near-CD quality, and AM will be Analog-FM quality with stereo. There are skywave issues on AM at night, so it will be daytime-only on AM for the forseeable future.
The issue on satellite radio is that a lot of the channels are compressed, especially talk channels, so that they can get more programs up there.
I work for an audio manufacturer that's going to be making a really good HD tabletop radio, and we've sold our first production runs to the broadcast companies, who will be giving them away to promote the technology.
All of the top 10 companies have committed to the technolgy.<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>
> > >
> I realize I'm showing my lack of technical expertise here,
> but here goes...
> Has anyone ben able to show, quantifiably, that IBOC FM
> sounds better than traditional analog FM. I have my doubts.
> Especially since the digital satellite broadcasts I've heard
> don't seem to sound as good as terrestrial FM. I'm just a
> bit suspicious. Maybe one of our more technically
> knowledgeable posters (Bruce, Jim) can enighten me. Thanks.
>
John,
I can't quantify it but have heard demos and there's a definite difference. FM will be near-CD quality, and AM will be Analog-FM quality with stereo. There are skywave issues on AM at night, so it will be daytime-only on AM for the forseeable future.
The issue on satellite radio is that a lot of the channels are compressed, especially talk channels, so that they can get more programs up there.
I work for an audio manufacturer that's going to be making a really good HD tabletop radio, and we've sold our first production runs to the broadcast companies, who will be giving them away to promote the technology.
All of the top 10 companies have committed to the technolgy.<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>
R
rbrucecarter
Guest
Re: Is IBOC for real?
> I realize I'm showing my lack of technical expertise here,
> but here goes...
> Has anyone ben able to show, quantifiably, that IBOC FM
> sounds better than traditional analog FM. I have my doubts.
> Especially since the digital satellite broadcasts I've heard
> don't seem to sound as good as terrestrial FM. I'm just a
> bit suspicious. Maybe one of our more technically
> knowledgeable posters (Bruce, Jim) can enighten me. Thanks.
My question has always been - is radio "broken" and in need of a fix? A lot of listening, perhaps most of it, is in cars. The main "enemy" here is style, that dictates that good antennas of the past - like the 31 inch whip - are deemed "unstylish" and being replaced by poorer antennas embedded in windshields, etc. I recall this same nonsense in the 1960's, and the resulting drop in sensitivity made broadcasters howl in protest. No such howling now. I rented one of those cars a couple of months back. Picket fencing, dropouts, static on KLUV in areas where my car with the 31 inch whip antenna has a perfect signal. Is digital going to help? Maybe with some of it - but I bet there will be situations where the blend back to analog will reveal nothing but a complete dropout. Which will be more obvious than ever because it will go from perfect to no signal abruptly, then back to perfect. Mostly the fault of the poor antenna in the car.
So the "fix" is not IBOC - the "fix" is better receivers, with better antennas. There is no reason why every car radio shouldn't be as good as the classic home tuners of the 1970's. Integration, improving processes, etc. should make it possible to put diversity receivers in every car, with multiple gang front ends and a dozen IF stages. Car radios ought to be hanging onto signals for 150 miles with no problems - or able to hold on in downtown canyons in NYC with 100 stations on the FM dial. Technical solutions were known 35 years ago, and being implemented in expensive units then. Our knowledge has only increased since then, with diversity antennas and better ceramic filters. We should have IC's under a dollar each with true DX machines in them. We don't, because the focus has been IBOC with the "digital" catchword. Guess what? The real world is still analog, there will never be a digital FM transmitter because the very nature of radio waves is analog. Unless you count spark gap transmitters which were "on / off" and probably had harmonics up and down the spectrum. They were the first - and only - digital transmitters.
Don't get me started on the real problem - which is format related - or perhaps the loss of localism / DJ spontaneity - all of which is long since lost because of corporate rules / legal departments / pushes for uniformity and "professionalism", things that no listener asked for and have been forced on the industry.
> I realize I'm showing my lack of technical expertise here,
> but here goes...
> Has anyone ben able to show, quantifiably, that IBOC FM
> sounds better than traditional analog FM. I have my doubts.
> Especially since the digital satellite broadcasts I've heard
> don't seem to sound as good as terrestrial FM. I'm just a
> bit suspicious. Maybe one of our more technically
> knowledgeable posters (Bruce, Jim) can enighten me. Thanks.
My question has always been - is radio "broken" and in need of a fix? A lot of listening, perhaps most of it, is in cars. The main "enemy" here is style, that dictates that good antennas of the past - like the 31 inch whip - are deemed "unstylish" and being replaced by poorer antennas embedded in windshields, etc. I recall this same nonsense in the 1960's, and the resulting drop in sensitivity made broadcasters howl in protest. No such howling now. I rented one of those cars a couple of months back. Picket fencing, dropouts, static on KLUV in areas where my car with the 31 inch whip antenna has a perfect signal. Is digital going to help? Maybe with some of it - but I bet there will be situations where the blend back to analog will reveal nothing but a complete dropout. Which will be more obvious than ever because it will go from perfect to no signal abruptly, then back to perfect. Mostly the fault of the poor antenna in the car.
So the "fix" is not IBOC - the "fix" is better receivers, with better antennas. There is no reason why every car radio shouldn't be as good as the classic home tuners of the 1970's. Integration, improving processes, etc. should make it possible to put diversity receivers in every car, with multiple gang front ends and a dozen IF stages. Car radios ought to be hanging onto signals for 150 miles with no problems - or able to hold on in downtown canyons in NYC with 100 stations on the FM dial. Technical solutions were known 35 years ago, and being implemented in expensive units then. Our knowledge has only increased since then, with diversity antennas and better ceramic filters. We should have IC's under a dollar each with true DX machines in them. We don't, because the focus has been IBOC with the "digital" catchword. Guess what? The real world is still analog, there will never be a digital FM transmitter because the very nature of radio waves is analog. Unless you count spark gap transmitters which were "on / off" and probably had harmonics up and down the spectrum. They were the first - and only - digital transmitters.
Don't get me started on the real problem - which is format related - or perhaps the loss of localism / DJ spontaneity - all of which is long since lost because of corporate rules / legal departments / pushes for uniformity and "professionalism", things that no listener asked for and have been forced on the industry.
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