All Access: New Variety Hits Study

[Slinky]

All Access is higlighting a new study on Adult Hits/Variety Hits stations today. PowerPoint presentation here:

<a target="_blank" href=http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/Temp/Sites/2518/35ec23208c024c009ceee95eb14e941b/AdultHitsStudy.ppt>http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/Temp/Sites/2518/35ec23208c024c009ceee95eb14e941b/AdultHitsStudy.ppt</a>

Highlights include the amazing cume numbers the format is putting up. 6 of the 8 stations surveyed are positioned #1 or #2 in the market for 25-54 cume. Not bad for a format that hardly existed a year ago.

For anyone who's wondering why stations keep switching to this format, this is definitely worth a read. Former fad formats like 80's and Jammin' Oldies never exploded like this.

 

[eGillCVI]

But are these extreme cases? The presentation made me wonder what type of 25-54 competition--if any--these Variety Hits stations contend with in their respective markets.

I still think the format itself will bore people and flicker out within a couple years. It may be burning brighter than Jammin' Oldies and certainly 80's ever did...but that doesn't convince me that it's not a fad format just as they were.

One of the things I found interesting about the presentation was the reinforcement that 12+ numbers are useless: In Kansas City, the #12 station (12+) is the #6 station (25-54). In Norfolk, the #11 station (12+) is #7 (25-54). In Dallas, the #14 (12+) station is #6 (25-54). And in Oklahoma City, the #11 (12+) station is #2 (25-54)!




> All Access is higlighting a new study on Adult Hits/Variety
> Hits stations today. PowerPoint presentation here:
>
http://vocuspr.vocus.com/vocuspr30/Temp/Si> tes/2518/35ec23208c024c009ceee95eb14e941b/AdultHitsStudy.ppt
>
>
> Highlights include the amazing cume numbers the format is
> putting up. 6 of the 8 stations surveyed are positioned #1
> or #2 in the market for 25-54 cume. Not bad for a format
> that hardly existed a year ago.
>
> For anyone who's wondering why stations keep switching to
> this format, this is definitely worth a read. Former fad
> formats like 80's and Jammin' Oldies never exploded like
> this.
>

 

[Slinky]

> But are these extreme cases? The presentation made me
> wonder what type of 25-54 competition--if any--these Variety
> Hits stations contend with in their respective markets.

When the study was done, these were the only cases. Jack/Bob hadn't caught fire across the country like it has now. The majority of Variety Hits outlets are too new to measure.

As for competition, most of the markets surveyed do have a significant number of 25-54 stations targetting similar audiences. Austin, where Bob has actually hit #2 12+, is the most impressive. Bob leapfrogged a AC, Hot AC, AAA, and 2 Classic Rock stations to get there. In Phoenix, "The Peak" is beating the Hot AC, AC, Rock, and Classic Rock outlets 12+. In Dallas, Jack is beating Hot AC, 2 AC's, and 2 Classic Rockers. The L.A. Jack, which wasn't surveyed, jumped over 2 Hot ACs and a Classic Rocker in its first month.

Those last two cases are, of course, the reason Infinity has so much confidence in the format.

> I still think the format itself will bore people and flicker
> out within a couple years. It may be burning brighter than
> Jammin' Oldies and certainly 80's ever did...but that
> doesn't convince me that it's not a fad format just as they
> were.

Elements of the format may burn out. The snarky presentation can get obnoxious after a while, and the lack of personality may be responsible for Jack's low TSL (which the study addresses). The music, though, is here to stay. This isn't like Jammin' Oldies or 80's Rock, where you had 300 similar sounding titles and nothing else. Jack is playing 1200 of the biggest hits of the last 40 years, and the audience seems to like them all thrown together.

You can make the case that people are just stopping to listen to the trainwreck and that will get old, but I don't think that's how the average listener thinks.

 

[OldiesCat]

Variety Hits Study

a) EXTREME CASES? They are just current cases- what could be "extreme" about them?

> But are these extreme cases? The presentation made me
> wonder what type of 25-54 competition--if any--these Variety
> Hits stations contend with in their respective markets.

b) 12+ numbers have been useless for 30 years- no new revelation here.


> One of the things I found interesting about the presentation
> was the reinforcement that 12+ numbers are useless

 

[Garrett]

Re: Variety Hits Study

You know, I always find it interesting that when it suits people's purposes, 12+ numbers don't count.
But did ya notice the stations on at the number 1 and 2 spot don't change formats the next day?

And, did ya happen to notice that the stations at the bottom are usually poorly managed and usually aren't making money?

Yeah, the 12+ doesn't matter, in some races.
But I think overall, it's still a good general measure of which stations are doing well, and which are struggling.


> a) EXTREME CASES? They are just current cases- what could
> be "extreme" about them?
>
> > But are these extreme cases? The presentation made me
> > wonder what type of 25-54 competition--if any--these
> Variety
> > Hits stations contend with in their respective markets.
>
> b) 12+ numbers have been useless for 30 years- no new
> revelation here.
>
>
> > One of the things I found interesting about the
> presentation
> > was the reinforcement that 12+ numbers are useless
>

 

[eGillCVI]

Re: Variety Hits Study

You enjoy conflict, don't you? LOL.

> a) EXTREME CASES? They are just current cases- what could
> be "extreme" about them?

You don't appear to understand what "extreme cases" means. It is completely unrelated to "current" vs. "past" cases. Allow me to paraphrase in a way you'll hopefully be able to comprehend: "When compared to all the cases of Variety Hits, are the ones in the study outside of the norm?" Untwist those knickers, Jack fan!

> b) 12+ numbers have been useless for 30 years- no new
> revelation here.

I didn't claim to be making any new revelation. That's kinda what I meant by "reinforcement." Geesh.

 

[eGillCVI]

Re: Variety Hits Study

> You know, I always find it interesting that when it suits
> people's purposes, 12+ numbers don't count.
> But did ya notice the stations on at the number 1 and 2 spot
> don't change formats the next day?
>
> And, did ya happen to notice that the stations at the bottom
> are usually poorly managed and usually aren't making money?
>
> Yeah, the 12+ doesn't matter, in some races.
> But I think overall, it's still a good general measure of
> which stations are doing well, and which are struggling.

I agree that 12+ numbers are an okay way to gauge a station's general performance. But the differences can be so drastic between the 12+ numbers and the numbers that management cares about. In some cases, 12+ numbers are completely irrelevant.

In the simplest terms I can think of, most stations would like a nice fat chunk of 25-54 year olds. That includes males & females and it's right there in the middle of birth and death. So sure, 12+ might sometimes be an okay measurement of 25-54 performance (although, as this thread has proven, that is not a safe bet). BUT... what if a station wants to appeal to females 18-24? Or males in their mid 20's to mid 30's? A station can post dismal 12+ numbers while getting perfectly sellable numbers in their target demo.

Well, you already knew all that, I'm sure. I'm just sitting here zoning out because I have to get in the shower and I'm too tired to even think about it!

 

[clichemoth]

Re: Variety Hits Study

> You enjoy conflict, don't you? LOL.
>
> > a) EXTREME CASES? They are just current cases- what could
>
> > be "extreme" about them?
>
> You don't appear to understand what "extreme cases" means.
> It is completely unrelated to "current" vs. "past" cases.
> Allow me to paraphrase in a way you'll hopefully be able to
> comprehend: "When compared to all the cases of Variety Hits,
> are the ones in the study outside of the norm?" Untwist
> those knickers, Jack fan!

The answer to that question would be "No. They are the norm, for now, because they're the only ones that have existed long enough to have useful numbers at all." Not to say that it won't be different anywhere else, but there seems to be a solid pattern from these 8.

 

[Oldbones]

> Elements of the format may burn out. The snarky
> presentation can get obnoxious after a while, and the lack
> of personality may be responsible for Jack's low TSL (which
> the study addresses). The music, though, is here to stay.
> This isn't like Jammin' Oldies or 80's Rock, where you had
> 300 similar sounding titles and nothing else. Jack is
> playing 1200 of the biggest hits of the last 40 years, and
> the audience seems to like them all thrown together.
>
> You can make the case that people are just stopping to
> listen to the trainwreck and that will get old, but I don't
> think that's how the average listener thinks.

But the low TSL tells me that they're playing a lot of stuff that a lot of people don't like. While the average listener may know know the term "trainwreck", the jarring mix of music isn't keeping them tuned in "to find out what's next"...the minute a song comes on that they don't like they're gone. The "snarky" presentation gets old REAL fast...not IMHO the best way to reach an over-30 audience.

 

[OldiesCat]

Variety Hits Study

I enjoy spirited discourse. Nothing ever gets done when everybody thinks the same. One of radio's great problems is lemming behavior-- I simply refuse to be in lock-step with all the lemmings.

;-)

> You enjoy conflict, don't you? LOL.

 

[OldiesCat]

12+

all I know is when you hear somebody using 12+ numbers to back their opinion,
it's blatantly obvious you're dealing with somebody who has no argument, who's
a radio outsider/wannabe or somebody with lousy radio training.

12+ numbers haven't been used for anything but trade publications for about
30 years.

> You know, I always find it interesting that when it suits
> people's purposes, 12+ numbers don't count.
> But did ya notice the stations on at the number 1 and 2 spot
> don't change formats the next day?
>
> And, did ya happen to notice that the stations at the bottom
> are usually poorly managed and usually aren't making money?
>
> Yeah, the 12+ doesn't matter, in some races.
> But I think overall, it's still a good general measure of
> which stations are doing well, and which are struggling.
>
>
> > a) EXTREME CASES? They are just current cases- what could
>
> > be "extreme" about them?
> >
> > > But are these extreme cases? The presentation made me
> > > wonder what type of 25-54 competition--if any--these
> > Variety
> > > Hits stations contend with in their respective markets.
>
> >
> > b) 12+ numbers have been useless for 30 years- no new
> > revelation here.
> >
> >
> > > One of the things I found interesting about the
> > presentation
> > > was the reinforcement that 12+ numbers are useless
> >
>

 

[eGillCVI]

Re: The Low TSL issue

> ...the lack
> of personality may be responsible for Jack's low TSL...

I would love to say that I agree...but I just don't. I certainly think the personality jocks (can) give a station help make it memorable and bring listeners back but I don't think people are tuning out because "I want to hear someone chattering incessantly between songs and Jack just doesn't give me that!" ;-)

Here's a big shock: I think the low TSL is because the library is too big. With over 1000 songs across almost all genres in rotation, Jack is bound to turn people off left and right. (Or, I should say, people are bound to turn Jack off left and right.) I have believed since the beginning of this whole Jack-nonenon that the large library will be the format's downfall.

Don't get me wrong: It's interesting to listen to...but everytime I listen, it also gets annoying within ten or fifteen minutes. That is almost the definition of "low TSL" after all!

By comparison, here in Philly we have Adult Contemporary B101 (as you well know) and they seem to play one great song after another. They eventually get on my nerves too (and by that, I mean they play a song I dislike) but it usually takes them upwards of 45 minutes to an hour to do so. I can even listen to the ridiculously repetitive CHR Q102 for longer than I can listen to Philly's Variety Hits BEN-FM. Low TSL for this format doesn't surprise me at all. I expected it from the get-go and I do believe it will be the reason Jack will be all-but-eradicated within a few years.

 

[eGillCVI]

Re: All Access: New Variety Hits Study/WORD

> But the low TSL tells me that they're playing a lot of stuff
> that a lot of people don't like. While the average listener
> may know know the term "trainwreck", the jarring mix of
> music isn't keeping them tuned in "to find out what's
> next"...the minute a song comes on that they don't like
> they're gone. The "snarky" presentation gets old REAL
> fast...not IMHO the best way to reach an over-30 audience.

It makes me so sad when I write seven or eight paragraphs and then realize that someone already made my point and they did it in, like, 50 words or less!

My mama was right: I do talk too much!