Alt 92.3 Music Changes

[Least]

Audacy was attempting to nationalize their product and I guess the Sacramento station was made their dumping ground so undesirable Alt bands and their labels couldn’t accuse them of blackballing. KNDD also played a couple of the undesirable artists; they played “Nowhere Generation” by Rise Against alongside KKDO for example.

It made things come off like KKDO simply existed as a repository to carry songs that didn’t the Audacy mold. By extension it gave KNDD the impression of simply being a backup to KKDO.

Nowhere Generation has been in play on their rock stations. Even the HD and streaming only "WAAF" in Boston plays it.

 

[mjb1124]

I think macattack was specifically talking about the Alternative format, not Mainstream Rock.

Makes me wonder if, in 15 years, we'll see artists like Machine Gun Kelly do better on Mainstream than Alternative. Assuming either of those formats still exist, of course.

 

[Least]

I think macattack was specifically talking about the Alternative format, not Mainstream Rock.

Makes me wonder if, in 15 years, we'll see artists like Machine Gun Kelly do better on Mainstream than Alternative. Assuming either of those formats still exist, of course.

He is talking about Alternative. The problem is that he identified a song and band as being "rejected" by Audacy other than on two particular stations. Sounds like they tested the song on some of their Alternative stations, yet it wasn't a rejected song or band. It was getting air play on Audacy's modern rock stations. I expect a band like Rise Against to be more fitting for a modern rock station over a station like WNYL or KROQ.

 

[macattack]

He is talking about Alternative. The problem is that he identified a song and band as being "rejected" by Audacy other than on two particular stations. Sounds like they tested the song on some of their Alternative stations, yet it wasn't a rejected song or band. It was getting air play on Audacy's modern rock stations. I expect a band like Rise Against to be more fitting for a modern rock station over a station like WNYL or KROQ.

Are we calling Active Rock Modern Rock now? Funny, considering how Alternative's formal name used to literally be Modern Rock.

 

[TheBigA]

Audacy was attempting to nationalize their product and I guess the Sacramento station was made their dumping ground so undesirable Alt bands and their labels couldn’t accuse them of blackballing.

More likely different music decisions being made by the programming people. Audacy doesn't use a single playlist. They've hired several new people who are in charge of these stations, and I think these changes reflect the new programming VPs.

As you can see, there's a new person in charge at these stations:

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[Least]

Are we calling Active Rock Modern Rock now? Funny, considering how Alternative's formal name used to literally be Modern Rock.

Alternative was always Alternative. Or what did we call modern rock when 80s hair bands were the prominent sound. Back then Alternative was Pet Shop Boys, A Flock of Segals, The Cure, etc. You're focused on what is truly 90s Grunge.

During the Grunge and 90s/00s Punk era, there was cross-over between Alternative and Modern Rock. But Alternative goes to a time long before 90s Grunge.

Try to find a playlist from stations like WFNX in Boston during the 80s. FNX was an Alternative station, and their sound wasn't like Rise Against, much like a section of Alternative today doesn't sound like Rise Against. You're defining Alternative by a sub-sect of Alternative (Alt-Rock). In the whole history of Alternative, Alt-Rock is the outlier.

 

[macattack]

Alternative was always Alternative. Or what did we call modern rock when 80s hair bands were the prominent sound. Back then Alternative was Pet Shop Boys, A Flock of Segals, The Cure, etc. You're focused on what is truly 90s Grunge.

During the Grunge and 90s/00s Punk era, there was cross-over between Alternative and Modern Rock. But Alternative goes to a time long before 90s Grunge.

Try to find a playlist from stations like WFNX in Boston during the 80s. FNX was an Alternative station, and their sound wasn't like Rise Against, much like a section of Alternative today doesn't sound like Rise Against. You're defining Alternative by a sub-sect of Alternative (Alt-Rock). In the whole history of Alternative, Alt-Rock is the outlier.

All of this for saying that Billboard's Alternative chart was called Modern Rock for two decades. Come on. I know full well what the history of the format is, and I've mentioned numerous times that Alternative is a potpourri format that tends to lean rock, as opposed to being a "rock" format.

More likely different music decisions being made by the programming people. Audacy doesn't use a single playlist. They've hired several new people who are in charge of these stations, and I think these changes reflect the new programming VPs.

As you can see, there's a new person in charge at these stations:

Radio Industry News, New Music, Music Promotion, Radio Station Song Charts

All Access offers the latest radio industry news and music news, music promotions for record companies new music, radio station song charts, and much more. AllAccess.com has been serving the radio and music industry since 1995, always bringing you the highest quality content with...

www.allaccess.com

I was talking about months ago before the new programmers were hired.

 

[Least]

All of this for saying that Billboard's Alternative chart was called Modern Rock for two decades. Come on. I know full well what the history of the format is, and I've mentioned numerous times that Alternative is a potpourri format that tends to lean rock, as opposed to being a "rock" format.

If you know it is a "potpourri" format, then I would suspect that would see the flaw in your original statement concerning audacy using specific stations as a dumping ground "to keep artists and record companies from saying that Audacy is (blackballing them)." You used Rise Against and their song Nowhere Generation as an example. My statement was that Audacy's rock stations are playing Nowhere Generation, so your statement has a flaw.

I used modern rock synonymously with active rock, as I see that as more accurate than modern rock being synonymous with Alternative, despite what happened from 1991 until about 2010ish. If that's why you chose to shift your focus, I suggest going back to the main discussion and observing the flaw made in the original statement. I don't think Rise Against is screaming that Audacy kept them off their Alternative stations yet played the song on their rock stations. Despite being an HD-2 jukebox currently, the song has been played on WAAF. That's a single example that I can confirm.

 

[macattack]

If you know it is a "potpourri" format, then I would suspect that would see the flaw in your original statement concerning audacy using specific stations as a dumping ground "to keep artists and record companies from saying that Audacy is (blackballing them)." You used Rise Against and their song Nowhere Generation as an example. My statement was that Audacy's rock stations are playing Nowhere Generation, so your statement has a flaw.

I used modern rock synonymously with active rock, as I see that as more accurate than modern rock being synonymous with Alternative, despite what happened from 1991 until about 2010ish. If that's why you chose to shift your focus, I suggest going back to the main discussion and observing the flaw made in the original statement. I don't think Rise Against is screaming that Audacy kept them off their Alternative stations yet played the song on their rock stations. Despite being an HD-2 jukebox currently, the song has been played on WAAF. That's a single example that I can confirm.

Audacy's format captain is on the record as stating Alternative needed to move away from rock to have a future, so that's why the alt-rock, punk, and indie rock records of the last couple of years have struggled to get on Audacy Alternative. I consider Active Rock to be a different format and Audacy has been running their Active Rock stations differently from their Alternative stations (the Active Rock stations do not have a format captain or nationalized programming), so I think you bringing up the Audacy Active Rock stations to be a logical fallacy.

Other songs that got the treatment include "Sticky" by The Maine, "The Bandit" by Kings of Leon, "Trouble's Coming" by Royal Blood, and "Let The Bad Times Roll" by The Offspring, although the latter two songs also got spun by Audacy Active Rock.

I think what Audacy was trying to do was draw a defined line in the sand between Alternative and the other two rock-oriented formats, with particular focus given to attempts at Active Rock/Alternative crossover. A lot of people here like to say "The future is rhythmic" and Audacy attempted to try that with Alternative for over a year, but it doesn't seem to have stuck.

Since the programmer changes some rock-oriented artists like Wolf Alice and The War on Drugs have found slots at Audacy (The War On Drugs was just added by every Audacy this week, and Wolf Alice two weeks ago). So perhaps Audacy is softening their stance, as long as the rock artist isn't trying to cross from Active to Alternative.

 

[Least]

Audacy's format captain is on the record as stating Alternative needed to move away from rock to have a future, so that's why the alt-rock, punk, and indie rock records of the last couple of years have struggled to get on Audacy Alternative. I consider Active Rock to be a different format and Audacy has been running their Active Rock stations differently from their Alternative stations (the Active Rock stations do not have a format captain or nationalized programming), so I think you bringing up the Audacy Active Rock stations to be a logical fallacy.

Other songs that got the treatment include "Sticky" by The Maine, "The Bandit" by Kings of Leon, "Trouble's Coming" by Royal Blood, and "Let The Bad Times Roll" by The Offspring, although the latter two songs also got spun by Audacy Active Rock.

I think what Audacy was trying to do was draw a defined line in the sand between Alternative and the other two rock-oriented formats, with particular focus given to attempts at Active Rock/Alternative crossover. A lot of people here like to say "The future is rhythmic" and Audacy attempted to try that with Alternative for over a year, but it doesn't seem to have stuck.

Since the programmer changes some rock-oriented artists like Wolf Alice and The War on Drugs have found slots at Audacy (The War On Drugs was just added by every Audacy this week, and Wolf Alice two weeks ago). So perhaps Audacy is softening their stance, as long as the rock artist isn't trying to cross from Active to Alternative.

Perhaps they are aiming to re-blend the lines between the two. You have a profound observation in this post. I don't see how it connects to your previous statement about using two stations for the "undesirables" or related term you used. Artists with a rock sound who aren't getting airplay on Alternative stations are still getting airplay on rock stations. Artists/bands who aren't getting it on either aren't viewed as commercially playable. Artists who are only getting played on one or two stations are most likely testing well enough in those markets.

 

[MarkW]

Audacy's strategy sure has worked well!

Numerous major market alternative stations with sub-2 share ratings.

High school and college stations can usually program RDS properly. Yet, Audacy's WDZH in Detroit still shows the name of the station from two formats ago on its RDS readout. Been happening for months. I suspect folks like Tim Roberts in Detroit devote less than 10 percent of their work week to the alternative branded station in their respective markets.

 

[macattack]

Perhaps they are aiming to re-blend the lines between the two. You have a profound observation in this post. I don't see how it connects to your previous statement about using two stations for the "undesirables" or related term you used. Artists with a rock sound who aren't getting airplay on Alternative stations are still getting airplay on rock stations. Artists/bands who aren't getting it on either aren't viewed as commercially playable. Artists who are only getting played on one or two stations are most likely testing well enough in those markets.

"Undesirables" meant songs sent to Alternative that made it to the top 10/20 that had support from iHeart and/or Cumulus but zero (or close to zero) support from Audacy. I was not referring to Active Rock artists attempting to cross over to Alternative exclusively. A significant amount of the songs that Audacy chose to snub that iHeart and Cumulus did not were indeed Active Rock songs attempting to cross over, but they're a plurality at best.

Audacy's strategy sure has worked well!

Numerous major market alternative stations with sub-2 share ratings.

High school and college stations can usually program RDS properly. Yet, Audacy's WDZH in Detroit still shows the name of the station from two formats ago on its RDS readout. Been happening for months. I suspect folks like Tim Roberts in Detroit devote less than 10 percent of their work week to the alternative branded station in their respective markets.

Audacy strikes me as a company that has many overworked employees with low morale.

 

[Least]

"Undesirables" meant songs sent to Alternative that made it to the top 10/20 that had support from iHeart and/or Cumulus but zero (or close to zero) support from Audacy. I was not referring to Active Rock artists attempting to cross over to Alternative exclusively. A significant amount of the songs that Audacy chose to snub that iHeart and Cumulus did not were indeed Active Rock songs attempting to cross over, but they're a plurality at best.

With your clarification, my next question is then do you have comparisons between two competing stations in the same market? I don't know of many markets with competing Alternative stations anymore. However, it can't be enough to compare owners. You also need to compare listener preferences across the different markets.

With Alternative, I'm a firm believer that the best operated stations are independently owned or are college stations. In Boston, we have an independent internet station (Indie617) and a decent college station WERS. We had a local owned commercial station (WFNX) for a long time, which was sold to iHeart and changed formats a few times (now is a country station). Any big company owned Alternative station hasn't met my subjective stance of quality Alternative as an independent owned or college station.

 

[davideduardo]

Urban AC stations in many large markets are earning very good ratings. That format has not seen the COVID share slump witnessed by contemporary hip-hop stations. Significant music differences exist between Urban AC versus those two formats.

Why do you believe a format geared toward African American audiences would cross-cume significantly with Spanish language music-based stations?

Hispanics are great users of Urban and Churban stations, particularly second generation 18-34’s.

Hispanics who are bilingual will listen to reggaetón and Latin rhythmic as well as hip hop and urban music. Many, as can be seen by those of us who are actual Nielsen subscribers, even listen to Regional Mexican, Urban and reggaetón. The average person with a PPM uses or hears 6 stations just in 7 days, and even more over several weeks.

Urban AC, except in a few markets with lots of Hispanics and few Blacks, has generally 90% to 95% Black listener fume.

 

[davideduardo]

Well, I would say that 106.7 Lite FM would be competition for soft AC. Would Hot 97 be competition for an Urban AC? Doesn't X96.3 cover Spanish language? .

Spanish is a language, not a format. There are more possible formats in Spanish than known in English. While most are too specific to a particular group from a particular nation, there are many that could be viable in NYC; many Hispanics do not use NYC Spanish language stations because none plays “their” music. And more than half of all Hispanics use English language stations either along with Spanish language ones or exclusively.

Throughout Latin America some of the highest rated stations play some or all English language music.

The market has about six million Hispanics so generalizing about them is not possible or appropriate.

 

[victorres43]

Audacy's strategy sure has worked well!

Numerous major market alternative stations with sub-2 share ratings.

High school and college stations can usually program RDS properly. Yet, Audacy's WDZH in Detroit still shows the name of the station from two formats ago on its RDS readout. Been happening for months. I suspect folks like Tim Roberts in Detroit devote less than 10 percent of their work week to the alternative branded station in their respective markets.

To be fair to Audacy, many radio stations consider the RDS as an afterthought. Multiple iHeartMedia stations do not even have RDS!

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Urban AC, except in a few markets with lots of Hispanics and few Blacks, has generally 90% to 95% Black listener fume.

I'm hoping this is 95% of cume, not that 95% of urban AC listeners smell bad!

 

[TheBigA]

Audacy's format captain is on the record as stating Alternative needed to move away from rock to have a future....

So perhaps Audacy is softening their stance, as long as the rock artist isn't trying to cross from Active to Alternative.

Just because a programmer says something once doesn't mean he's married to that view forever.

Certainly he's had his butt kicked all over the country in the last 18 months. Maybe that's why he's hiring fresh blood.

 

[davideduardo]

I'm hoping this is 95% of cume, not that 95% of urban AC listeners smell bad!

They didn’t like the music so they went away fuming!

 

[Least]

Spanish is a language, not a format. There are more possible formats in Spanish than known in English. While most are too specific to a particular group from a particular nation, there are many that could be viable in NYC; many Hispanics do not use NYC Spanish language stations because none plays “their” music. And more than half of all Hispanics use English language stations either along with Spanish language ones or exclusively.

Throughout Latin America some of the highest rated stations play some or all English language music.

The market has about six million Hispanics so generalizing about them is not possible or appropriate.

True. My post came out as such but wasn't meant to be a generalization. It was meant as a retort of potential competition to suggestions that was thrown out as "better options" than the current programming. As for programming in Spanish (as would have been better stated), what formats presented in Spanish do you think might work in New York? I know that when discussing Rumba 97.7 in Boston, you have predictions as to how the station would perform, based on the Boston market. Seeing that this is a differently market, I'm interested in seeing what you predict as being a potentially well working format, presented in Spanish.