Alt 92.3 Music Changes

[TheBigA]

Then they should simply stop the false advertising. Their logo, imaging, everything about the stations says "New Alternative".

Who else on the dial is playing more new alternative? When you're the only one, then you can say whatever you want.

I imagine they came up with the phrase back when they played more currents. They haven't gotten around to finding a new marketing phrase.

 

[Delete My Account]

One interesting point in this discussion is that lately, many of those non-comm Triple A outlets actually rank better than commercial alternative. And their listeners are willing to pay for it.

Admittedly, this isn't the case in New York with WFUV.

 

[mikerock]

Who else on the dial is playing more new alternative? When you're the only one, then you can say whatever you want.

I imagine they came up with the phrase back when they played more currents. They haven't gotten around to finding a new marketing phrase.

Looking at this afternoon's playlist, 4 hours and only one new song from 2021. I think the closest others were a couple 2017 and 2015. That is almost the entire afternoon.

They are playing songs that are more hard rock sounding alt which is fine but then they mix it in with No Doubt's, Don't Speak from 1995. A soft top 40 song alt crossover and extremely played out. I do not see the benefit if they going for a different audience that likes harder Classic Alternative. If they really like soft rock they will tune out the next hard rock sounding alt comes on.

Seems no rime or reason for the playlist, no curation as if a large playlist simply labeled Alternative was put on shuffle with no understanding of the music. Maybe an algorithm that limits 2021 to 1%, 2016-2020 3% and something like 30% 1990s. IDK.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

Who else on the dial is playing more new alternative?

The New Arrivals channel, 92.3 HD2.

 

[mikerock]

The New Arrivals channel, 92.3 HD2.

I took a look at the last hour and for a second I thought it was New Alternative. I was going to say they should just flip 92.3 HD2 to the main channel and move whatever abortion they are toying with on the main channel to 92.3 HD2. But after looking more closely I found allot of old music on the so called "New Arrivals" channel.

When I think new arrivals, I think of it as something that has not been heard for months or half the year already. More like something new these last few weeks. But "New Arrivals" is not even that. They have stuff on there dating back to the 80s.

I think it was Music Choice that used to have an Alt channel that played new stuff, so new that by December the songs would be listed with next years date.

 

[macattack]

Looking at this afternoon's playlist, 4 hours and only one new song from 2021. I think the closest others were a couple 2017 and 2015. That is almost the entire afternoon.

They are playing songs that are more hard rock sounding alt which is fine but then they mix it in with No Doubt's, Don't Speak from 1995. A soft top 40 song alt crossover and extremely played out. I do not see the benefit if they going for a different audience that likes harder Classic Alternative. If they really like soft rock they will tune out the next hard rock sounding alt comes on.

Seems no rime or reason for the playlist, no curation as if a large playlist simply labeled Alternative was put on shuffle with no understanding of the music. Maybe an algorithm that limits 2021 to 1%, 2016-2020 3% and something like 30% 1990s. IDK.

When such an obvious automation happens it usually means big changes coming soon. I remember this when Q101 got flipped to News in Chicago - a robo-playlist that is often a prelude to a stunt, if not a cold flip. WNYL is either going to sound radically different next year (the heavier Alt songs from the likes of Papa Roach and Staind imply a KPNT-like makeover on the way) or it’s gone. I don’t think there will be any continuation of the status quo.

 

[TheBigA]

I took a look at the last hour and that is more like what I would consider New Alternative. They should just flip 92.3 HD2 to the main channel and move whatever abortion they are toying with on the main channel to 92.3 HD2.

The more new alt they play, the more tune-out they get. Adding familiar music is being done because the new alt got them a 1 share. That 1 share can listen on HD.

When such an obvious automaton happens it usually means big changes coming soon.

Of course they also turn to automation during holiday periods, which is what we're in now.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

I took a look at the last hour and for a second I thought it was New Alternative. I was going to say they should just flip 92.3 HD2 to the main channel and move whatever abortion they are toying with on the main channel to 92.3 HD2. But after looking more closely I found allot of old music on the so called "New Arrivals" channel.

When I think new arrivals, I think of it as something that has not been heard for months or half the year already. More like something new these last few weeks. But "New Arrivals" is not even that. They have stuff on there dating back to the 80s.

The rotation turned over really quickly when they started that subchannel with just new alternative songs and nothing else. Then they added some gold which, as you noted, leans on '80s alternative tracks not played on the main channel. There's some British new wave in there, and foundational alternative stuff like WLIR was known for playing. Those songs don't really fit the definition of "new arrivals" but there's some good wow factor in there, and I find the whole playlist sounds much fresher than the main Alt channel. If Alt 92.3 gets replaced by a WINS simulcast, I hope they at least keep the New Arrivals channel on the HD2.

 

[mikerock]

The more new alt they play, the more tune-out they get. Adding familiar music is being done because the new alt got them a 1 share. That 1 share can listen on HD.



Of course they also turn to automation during holiday periods, which is what we're in now.

I was looking at the older overall ratings 2017, 2018, where the average was around 2.0 and end of 2018, 2.3. I think there was more newer music back then early on. This year 1.7 - 2.0. I am guessing you are breaking on 25-54?

I would not go so far as to say that is why they get a 1 share. If people tune in to what they expect to be new alternative and hear tired played out songs from 90s or Top 40, it might be the reason they tune out. If they want to hear hard alternative and classic, but are forced to sit through all the garbage, they will tune out as well. The station pleases no one so it is no wonder why it gets a 1 share.

 

[mikerock]

The rotation turned over really quickly when they started that subchannel with just new alternative songs and nothing else. Then they added some gold which, as you noted, leans on '80s alternative tracks not played on the main channel. There's some British new wave in there, and foundational alternative stuff like WLIR was known for playing. Those songs don't really fit the definition of "new arrivals" but there's some good wow factor in there, and I find the whole playlist sounds much fresher than the main Alt channel. If Alt 92.3 gets replaced by a WINS simulcast, I hope they at least keep the New Arrivals channel on the HD2.

I agree.

I would prefer the so called new arrivals over the main channel since the older new wave is similar in style to what is actually new alternative. Maybe the problem is the harder Classic Alternative and New Wave are too different in style to share the same channel. The older Classic Alternative of the 90s in my opinion did not age well compared to the 80s new wave. Maybe being over played is somewhat a factor even though they are both somewhat overplayed.

 

[MVB13]

I was looking at the older overall ratings 2017, 2018, where the average was around 2.0 and end of 2018, 2.3. I think there was more newer music back then early on. This year 1.7 - 2.0. I am guessing you are breaking on 25-54?

I would not go so far as to say that is why they get a 1 share. If people tune in to what they expect to be new alternative and hear tired played out songs from 90s or Top 40, it might be the reason they tune out. If they want to hear hard alternative and classic, but are forced to sit through all the garbage, they will tune out as well. The station pleases no one so it is no wonder why it gets a 1 share.

The music when they first started was phenomenal. Then in 2020 it started to sound like garbage.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

Looking at this afternoon's playlist, 4 hours and only one new song from 2021. I think the closest others were a couple 2017 and 2015. That is almost the entire afternoon.

They are playing songs that are more hard rock sounding alt which is fine but then they mix it in with No Doubt's, Don't Speak from 1995. A soft top 40 song alt crossover and extremely played out. I do not see the benefit if they going for a different audience that likes harder Classic Alternative. If they really like soft rock they will tune out the next hard rock sounding alt comes on.

Seems no rime or reason for the playlist, no curation as if a large playlist simply labeled Alternative was put on shuffle with no understanding of the music. Maybe an algorithm that limits 2021 to 1%, 2016-2020 3% and something like 30% 1990s. IDK.

Same in Detroit. Lots of golds. Playing more familiar music on these formats is more PPM friendly than playing more new music. This depends on the market. WLUM in Milwaukee was getting record ratings with a heavy amount of the newer stuff this year. They don’t pipe in anything from out of market though. Most of what they do is local unlike Audacy and iHeart.

 

[fordranger797]

I agree.

I would prefer the so called new arrivals over the main channel since the older new wave is similar in style to what is actually new alternative. Maybe the problem is the harder Classic Alternative and New Wave are too different in style to share the same channel. The older Classic Alternative of the 90s in my opinion did not age well compared to the 80s new wave. Maybe being over played is somewhat a factor even though they are both somewhat overplayed.

I would even argue that 80's New Wave and modern Alternative share many characteristics in timbre. Most of the Alternative stations that I frequent have a steady dose of current music (with many tracks that were popular over the past ten years, in addition to a few older tracks that fit the format and current sound). 90's tracks make the cut as well, but only to a limited extent.

 

[TheBigA]

WLUM in Milwaukee was getting record ratings with a heavy amount of the newer stuff this year.

Very different situation. KEXP gets great ratings in Seattle too. They do it by being a community station, with the radio station as part of a performance center and rock music museum.

 

[TheBigA]

I would not go so far as to say that is why they get a 1 share. If people tune in to what they expect to be new alternative and hear tired played out songs from 90s or Top 40, it might be the reason they tune out.

They've only added the older songs lately, which is why this thread was started. Prior to this, they were playing twice as many currents. The complaint then was about the particular currents. The latest ratings were taken before the older songs were added.

Maybe the problem is the harder Classic Alternative and New Wave are too different in style to share the same channel. The older Classic Alternative of the 90s in my opinion did not age well compared to the 80s new wave.

And yet the other commenter was talking about the diversity of alterative. When they were currents, it was possible to hear both new wave and alt on the same station. The fact is there isn't enough audience for this format to get more than one station. This one station has to satisfy everyone, and the problem appears to be the lack of tolerance from the audience.

 

[Barry]

SiriusXM, with its abundance of channels, is able to devote 3 to Alternative. Alt Nation offers new and recent music. Lithium plays 90's Alternative and Grunge. 1st Wave airs Classic Alternative/New Wave (Larry the Duck, formerly of WLIR is one of their personalities). There is also a fair amount of Alt sprinkled in XMU (Indie Rock) and The Spectrum (AAA).
Presumably, fussy listeners can flip between these channels and find a reasonable amount of stuff they like.

 

[TheBigA]

SiriusXM, with its abundance of channels, is able to devote 3 to Alternative.

Absolutely, and if it was possible for one radio company to own 100 stations in the NYC area, they too could devote three stations to alternative, assuming those stations would be paid for by user subscriptions.

 

[macattack]

The music when they first started was phenomenal. Then in 2020 it started to sound like garbage.

2019 was when WNYL started getting reluctant to spin new alternative and indie rock and it became outright stonewalling in 2020.

WNYL did not play “Might Be Right” by White Reaper to the bitter end, even after it hit #1. Another Alt #1, “Oh Yeah!” by Green Day, was also ignored by WNYL for its full run (and was dropped by KROQ after WNYL’s programmer took it over). Finally, “Hero” by Weezer was ignored by both KROQ and WNYL for its full run even after hitting #1.

The above are just the #1s WNYL snubbed, to go through the full list of top 10 indie rock and alternative rock songs ignored would take an eternity.

After the nationalization, only two traditional indie or alternative rock songs hit #1 until Maneskin’s reign with their cover of “Beggin”. They were “Skin & Bones” by Cage the Elephant, which likely was given a pass by Audacy due to their Grammy win, and “We Are Between” by Modest Mouse. Both songs never left medium rotation on Audacy but they got enough spins from elsewhere to hit #1. Everything else that hit #1 until “Beggin’” was alternative pop or pop-punk, depending whether you consider Twenty One Pilots an indie rock artist or not.

I have to think the deliberate attempt to redefine Alternative as a purely pop format alienated a lot of listeners in the NYC/East Jersey area much like it did you.

 

[radiojomo]

This is a quote from Mike Kaplan in a Variety article published last year...

“Rock music is part of what we do, it’s part of alternative, but it’s not the only part of alternative. We’re not just looking to play four white dudes in a band. Our audience is as diverse as ever and our playlist needs to be too. Whether it’s Billie Eilish or Lana Del Rey or rappers making alternative tracks such as 24kGoldn and Dominic Fike, we’re bringing together what millennials and Gen Z fans want. There are really no boundaries when you think about music today. We’re not a singular focus where we get so pigeon-holed and lack diverse options. We don’t just stand for one thing. It’s a lifestyle and an attitude.”

 

[MarkW]

"Rappers making alternative tracks..."

That is a paradoxical statement, in my eyes.

Our audience is as diverse as ever and our playlist needs to be too.

First part of that statement is probably b.s.