Alt 92.3

[MarkW]

"I listen to Kane and (whomever) in the morning religiously!" said absolutely no one ever.

The music is mediocre, the clutter and frequency of music interruptions is ultra annoying, and the morning show is junk.

The old New Rock 101.9, which was a placeholder station run out of a closet following the failure of FM News 101.9, earned better ratings than Alt 92.3 - and for good reason.

 

[Rusty Muck]

The old New Rock 101.9, which was a placeholder station run out of a closet following the failure of FM News 101.9, earned better ratings than Alt 92.3 - and for good reason.

A modern rock playlist as composed in 2012 would not fly in 2021.

It also speaks to the epic misfire that was FM News 101.9. You want to talk about a failure? Merlin sank tons of money into 101.9 for an expensive format to begin with and had no ROI whatsoever. Their creditors forced them to slap on placeholder formats and liquidate all assets.

 

[MarkW]

I don't disagree; my general point is a shoestring station back in 2012 proved more popular than the current day Alt 92.3. It speaks to the cluelessness of the folks responsible for 92.3's programming.

The primary reason FM News failed is that the crotchety old men who were the architects behind that brand thought vapid content would work wonders in attracting listeners - especially female listeners - to a "News" station. About a year into that failed endeavor, both the Chicago and NYC stations transitioned to a more traditional approach to the All-News format, but by then, both brands were already severely damaged goods. The Chicago station would've been doomed in any event, since CBS gave Newsradio WBBM an FM simulcast from the moment FM News 101.1 in that city hit the airwaves.

 

[TheBigA]

I don't disagree; my general point is a shoestring station back in 2012 proved more popular than the current day Alt 92.3. It speaks to the cluelessness of the folks responsible for 92.3's programming.

They're two very different things, don't you think?

 

[MarkW]

They're two very different things, don't you think?

Yes - one station was programmed competently despite very limited resources (New Rock 101.9) and the other one so far has sounded like garbage (Alt 92.3).

It is nice to finally see the cache of Alt-formatted stations owned by Audacy finally broaden by leaps & bounds the library component of the playlist. Should've happened many months ago. I'd love to see currents and recurrents limited to 2 songs an hour (combined) until the quality of available new music for the format improves.

Now, how about reducing the clutter between songs and getting some better air talent?

 

[TheBigA]

Yes - one station was programmed competently despite very limited resources (New Rock 101.9) and the other one so far has sounded like garbage (Alt 92.3).

You misunderstand the question.

"NewRock" was a jukebox of currents and recurrents. Meanwhile, you want Alt to limit currents and recurrents to two per hour.

Which is basically what they were doing two years ago.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Any discussion about whatever Alt is doing or not doing almost obscures the other Big Problem about modern rock being a mess of a format that a current consensus can't be reached on at this juncture.

That alone makes it very difficult for an accurate judgement on the station to begin with.

 

[MarkW]

New Rock 101.9 wasn't quite as current intensive as you claim, BigA.

Music wise, 92.3's issue has largely been one of texture. Too much recent product that passes for alternative is too feminine or rhythmic sounding. That's a big reason I think 92.3 and some other stations in the Audacy alternative stable need to skew more gold heavy, and indeed that is now happening. I'm also seeing more individualism between playlists at long last.

92.3's problems extend beyond the music, though. Those issues need to be addressed. The Audacy alt stations are just overloaded with a ridiculous amount of clutter.

 

[Delete My Account]

Alternative stations certainly shouldn't be too "feminine." Because of course, it wasn't the format that broke Tori Amos, Fiona Apple, No Doubt, Alanis and Garbage.

And rhythmic's also a bad idea, I mean it wasn't like it was the format that broke Depeche Mode, New Order, the Chemical Brothers, Daft Punk, Fatboy Slim and Prodigy.

The path forward is quite obviously in 2021 to ignore new sounds and artist diversity in favor of a return to the 90s fixation on guys with guitars, and ignore the fact that that sound is largely incompatible with the currents and recurrents. The clearest future for "modern" radio is to return to music in vogue almost 30 years ago.

*insert sarcasm tag here*

 

[TheBigA]

=

Music wise, 92.3's issue has largely been one of texture. Too much recent product that passes for alternative is too feminine or rhythmic sounding. That's a big reason I think 92.3 and some other stations in the Audacy alternative stable need to skew more gold heavy, and indeed that is now happening.

Keep in mind is that the goal of programming is to deliver a specific audience to sales. So the music mix is aimed at attracting a certain demographic. Maybe bring a few females who find WNEW too mushy. They might be able to get more people 12+ if they added more gold, but in the process they might cannibalize one of the other stations in the cluster. They're still looking for the right mix.

I'm also seeing more individualism between playlists at long last.

That was always the intent from the beginning as stated by David Field himself. They just needed to get the right people in place.

 

[mjb1124]

Honest question... does "Alternative" actually mean anything to people under 30? Maybe the reason people are hung up on the Alternative sounds of the past is because that's the generation that actually had a use for that label.

 

[Least]

I don't disagree; my general point is a shoestring station back in 2012 proved more popular than the current day Alt 92.3. It speaks to the cluelessness of the folks responsible for 92.3's programming.

The primary reason FM News failed is that the crotchety old men who were the architects behind that brand thought vapid content would work wonders in attracting listeners - especially female listeners - to a "News" station. About a year into that failed endeavor, both the Chicago and NYC stations transitioned to a more traditional approach to the All-News format, but by then, both brands were already severely damaged goods. The Chicago station would've been doomed in any event, since CBS gave Newsradio WBBM an FM simulcast from the moment FM News 101.1 in that city hit the airwaves.

I think both Chicago's and New York's FM News were doomed when they flipped Q101 and WRXP to the placeholder "FM New" formats in an attempt purge the rock listeners and start gaining female listeners. Problem is how they thought they could keep listeners after a sudden shift from music to news. Bring them in with Pop and Hot AC music, then just two weeks later cut it off and give news to female listeners?

 

[MarkW]

They might be able to get more people 12+ if they added more gold, but in the process they might cannibalize one of the other stations in the cluster. They're still looking for the right mix.

The fact they are still "looking for the right mix" suggests to me their initial game plan was half-baked.

I like the direction the playlists are now beginning to take. The other aspects of certain Audacy alternative stations still need a LOT of improvement, however.

And rhythmic's also a bad idea, I mean it wasn't like it was the format that broke Depeche Mode, New Order, the Chemical Brothers, Daft Punk, Fatboy Slim and Prodigy.

The grunge scene and the post-grunge scene made alternative radio mainstream. Before that, it was nothing more than a niche format that only worked in a few select markets.

Hey, I've got no issue at all with music that fuses rock & rhythmic elements. I love Linkin Park. I love much of the industrial rock that was produced in the 90's. I love the Killers. My earlier comment was in reference to rhythmic pop.

 

[TheBigA]

The fact they are still "looking for the right mix" suggests to me their initial game plan was half-baked.

Have you EVER worked in radio? I guess not. Because you never really know how a format will work until you put it on the air.

Nobody knows what people will like. If they did, we'd have a lot more hit songs and a lot more top rated radio stations. Popular taste changes all the time. There is no template that always works. It's always a crap shoot. I read these comments that they should just copy a successful station in St. Louis or some other place, but there's no guarantee that would work in another market.

 

[MarkW]

I read these comments that they should just copy a successful station in St. Louis or some other place, but there's no guarantee that would work in another market.

Completely agree.

However, some of the crap that pervades the Alt-branded stations makes the listening experience fatiguing. The manner in which Audacy has implemented "The Two Minute Promise" is completely hairbrained. The purpose of that concept, which I believe was first launched by Jacobs Media years ago on a station they consulted was to de-clutter the sound of the radio station. Audacy has managed to do the complete opposite, unfortunately.

 

[Delete My Account]

Alternative radio also played Crowded House, Erasure and the Pet Shop Boys.

It wasn't like "pop" wasn't a huge part of the format. It was "left of center" pop but it was still "pop" sounding music much of the time.

Grunge changed the format. Post grunge in many cases tanked it. Then they tried swing, ska, techno, and rap rock. To varying degrees of success. By the days of "new ROCK alternative" most women and educated adults had gone elsewhere, leaving "alternative" to be "Active + skater punk + white guy rap."

But key to all of this is that music changes. And alternative music today isn't 90s rock. The few independent stations succeeding with the format aren't relying on a heavy dose of 90s music. WWCD, WEQX, and a handful of others have plenty of new music to play and have a good balance. So did KRBZ in Kansas City prior to the "Alt" rebrand. Like what you like, but what you want is a Spotify playlist of 90s rock. A "modern" music station has to find some path forward - and it isn't relying on that music. Personally while I liked grunge, I thought the post grunge and rap metal era made for sludgy sounding radio stations with very little texture or nuance and that's why my time was spent streaming WOXY 97X and CD101/102/now 92. Maybe the real point here is that there's too many partisans to have a coalition big enough for a format.

 

[MarkW]

Alternative radio also played Crowded House, Erasure and the Pet Shop Boys.

Yuck.

The few independent stations succeeding with the format aren't relying on a heavy dose of 90s music. WWCD, WEQX, and a handful of others have plenty of new music to play and have a good balance.

Succeeding and WWCD do not belong in the same sentence. WWCD is a financially-strapped also ran that has mostly had terrible ratings for many years that couldn't afford to continue to pay tower rent to the owner of 102.5.

By the days of "new ROCK alternative" most women and educated adults had gone elsewhere, leaving "alternative" to be "Active + skater punk + white guy rap."

Stations such as WKQX, KROQ and WNNX had record high or near record high ratings when they focused on such material. I definitely am not saying that formula should be followed by most such stations today, but your claim that the music drove away listeners in large number at the time is false.

Know what drove away Q101's ratings in the early 2K's? The hire of a CHR/Pop PD (Tim Richards) to replace Dave Richards. Dave Richards had the station firing on all cylinders. Tim Richards drove it into the ground, and then the person who succeeded him drove it 200 feet into the ground. Tim Richards removed much of the harder rock material the station had been playing and backfilled it with a bunch of warmed over Modern AC product. The station was rewarded with a nearly 40% drop in AQH share.

 

[TheBigA]

Tim Richards removed much of the harder rock material the station had been playing and backfilled it with a bunch of warmed over Modern AC product. The station was rewarded with a nearly 40% drop in AQH share.

Sounds like the audience had become too old and too male. Once again, these are sales decisions.

 

[Delete My Account]

I never claimed it drove away listeners in large numbers. I claimed it drove away alternative's typical coalition in favor of male heavy borderline active rock. Q101 hired Mancow and went in a different direction - young men.

CD101 - appears to have enough support to bounce back and find a new frequency each time. Seems more people in Columbus know and care about the station than wherever iHeart has "Alt" - 105.7 I think but who really cares?

I didn't claim those stations were huge in the ratings. What I claimed is that they have a music formula that is neither yours or Audacy's version and it works. As a mix of music. That's separate from what works as a revenue generator or format for most stations. Sometimes they're the same and sometimes not. There are barely enough independently owned balanced "alternative" stations to count on one hand. There's probably a reason for that. Which this thread proves. And David's pointed out. The indie types don't like post grunge. The grunge and hard rockers don't like indie pop and banjos. The people that loved the 90s stuff don't dig Billie Eilish. And that's why a format many people loved is barely a format now.

 

[tall_guy1]

I understand the business very well. That's how I stay employed. I'm simply responding to what you say.

I repeat my question: Was WNYL performing better when it was strictly a local station?

As I always say, the goal isn't ratings, it's revenue. So if they can improve revenue for a niche music format, then it's worth doing.

Let me add that you can "super-serve the local market" and also utilize national programming. The way to do that is OFF THE AIR. The key difference between successful stations that use syndication and stations that simply program off the satellite is how the stations market and promote themselves to the local audience. Are they doing outreach in the community? Do they have a presence in the local music community? From what I've been seeing, Audacy has a goal of increasing and expanding the local presence of their alternative stations with live events.

Kevan Kenney and Bryce at night actually are national.