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Alternative and Triple A Radio in Atlanta

^It's like excuse after excuse after excuse - Morning Shows, Heritage Stations, People listening because of celebrities that were on 25 years ago, Comparing Alternative ratings to ratings of female-targeted stations

How about this...maybe - just maybe - DC101, 106.5 The End, and The Buzz/Houston are billing well because people like the music - No, wait that's impossible ::)
 
If Alternative billed well, Clear Channel would gladly blow up The Bull for it. But it's not. Country and pop make more money. Even a low rated pop station.
 
Know it wouldn't have as much coverage, but you'd think the big boys might consider at least putting an Alternative station on a translator in Atlanta. Cox seems to be making some successful moves in that area. It's early to tell what ratings it'll have, but X98.5 on a translator in Greenville, SC, has still been pretty impressive for a mid-sized market. And with little overhead, what could it hurt? Don't know where the signals in the ATL would come from as far as translators, but I'd imagine there's towers in places like Gwinnett and Cobb Counties....and those would be good counties to have them in.
 
TheBigA said:
If Alternative billed well, Clear Channel would gladly blow up The Bull for it. But it's not. Country and pop make more money. Even a low rated pop station.
Click to expand...
Dude, you have no clue what you're talking about in terms of billing (and BTW no one is going to flip a Country station in a Southern market - that's crazy)

I'm assuming you either work for CBS, or you associate with people that do - why else would you randomly go on an out-of-state board and argue over and over that Alternative isn't a profitable format there?

I'm doing it to try to convince people to bring Alternative back in my own market - I'm not sure what motivation you would have to do this...maybe someone from CBS asked you to?

If CC or Cumulus started up a new Alternative station that proved to be more successful than All News 106.7, CBS would sure look like idiots - and they would have a pretty hard time getting investors in All News flips in other markets

Hmmm...
 
^Three more pieces to this puzzle...

(1)CBS Radio headquarters is in New York City, where you're apparently from
(2)The CBS Radio website is covered with nothing but "CBS Sports Radio" info, from one side of the page to the other
(3)I've never seen you post on the Atlanta board before

Hmmm...
 
atlantaboy said:
Dude, you have no clue what you're talking about in terms of billing
Click to expand...

I asked you for proof, and you dodged it. So now you criticize me rather than respond to my post?

atlantaboy said:
(1)CBS Radio headquarters is in New York City, where you're apparently from
Click to expand...

Huh? You have a vivid imagination. Respond to the facts I've posted, instead of inventing a bunch of fiction.

We're talking about Clear Channel. They're the owner of all the Alternative stations you've been talking about. They have the lowest rated stations in Atlanta, thus the most likely to flip. Yet they don't. Why?
 
Atlantaboy- I'm likely a bigger alternative fan than even you and would love to see alternative in Atlanta but Alternative does NOT bill well and nearly all the alternative stations you mentioned bill very low. Some of the highest rating alternative stations are ones that are in towns without an active rock or AAA format like St. Louis.

If you want alternative in Atlanta (which if you're like me, you do), I would suggest you to really hit up some of the college stations or maybe some of the outside stations like 107.1.

Also, you made a point that was very interesting and I was not aware of. You said that alternative bills well. Is there any evidence that these stations bill well?? I'm asking for proof. I am aware that just because ratings are low for a station that they can still bill well if the listeners are more wealthier ones.

The back and fourth accusations being made for and against alternative in Atlanta need to end though. Start giving out some hardcore facts that we can all see.

Again- This coming from a big advocate for Alternative in Atlanta.
 
acheron82 said:
Atlantaboy- I'm likely a bigger alternative fan than even you and would love to see alternative in Atlanta but Alternative does NOT bill well and nearly all the alternative stations you mentioned have very low ratings. Some of the highest rating alternative stations are ones that are in towns without an active rock or AAA format like St. Louis.

If you want alternative in Atlanta (which if you're like me, you do), I would suggest you to really hit up some of the college stations or maybe some of the outside stations like 107.1.

Also, you made a point that was very interesting and I was not aware of. You said that alternative bills well. Is there any evidence that these stations bill well?? I'm asking for proof. I am aware that just because ratings are low for a station that they can still bill well if the listeners are more wealthier ones.

The back and fourth accusations being made for and against alternative in Atlanta need to end though. Start giving out some hardcore facts that we can all see.

Again- This coming from a big advocate for Alternative in Atlanta.
Click to expand...
 
Atlantaboy, respectfully, have you ever tried to sell ads or manage a radio station that is AAA? I could go on for hours, type thousands of words. I wish it was as easy and successful as some believe. When all that matters in radio is $$$ and agency buys, the format is virtually cursed. Most AAA, etc. formats are found on smaller signals or Indie owners who can't win against a cluster, so they get the "table scraps" and pick formats that will not generally get competition. There are some exceptions as noted on here. Dave was never properly allowed to connect after the first few years. The list of issues is a mile long. I agree that currently this national sports station rollout is more about ego (we are doing it...) vs. ratings. I wouldn't have done it, but that's me. One thing about BigA is he really gets the business side. Formats aren't his concern, like most on this board. Everybody fights for their viewpoint and format favorites. End of the day, AAA is a tough format for consistent music, loyalty is spotty because of mixing on genres and the niche is so small that it's hard to ensure repeated, long term success with advertisers.... Now, if I could pick three formats to work with that would make me happy if money was no issue: 1) 80's Edgier Hits leaning Heavy Alt mixed with some 90s and a little newer. 2) Triple A with a drive toward explaining it's beginnings and some historic music, but more new rock/currents and 3) Late 60s-thru the 70's Peace and Love music.
 
Okay guys, I never said that AAA would be an arbitron ratings winner and a huge money maker. It is just that all these other cities througout the southeast and the rest of the U.S. have AAA stations and many of the stations have been around for years. And for some reason these stations are making enough money that the owners are willing to keep the format. Atlanta's 12 plus population that Arbitron uses is 4,385,000. You are not going to tell me that there is not a niche in this population that does not listen to AAA. Again, I am not in radio and have no reason to lie to anyone but why do I keep going to all these restaurants, stores, and services and keep hearing AAA music. And everyone, was so depressed when Dave FM died. And most of these people that listen to this music are in the upper income bracket. And as I said earlier, for a format that some of these critics keep saying is dead why in the hell are all these artists releasing music on vinyl. And why are all these AAA stations playing this music still?
 
Dan6053 said:
Okay guys, I never said that AAA would be an arbitron ratings winner and a huge money maker. It is just that all these other cities througout the southeast and the rest of the U.S. have AAA stations and many of the stations have been around for years. And for some reason these stations are making enough money that the owners are willing to keep the format.
Click to expand...

This is what I've been trying to get at - when both the Alternative and AAA formats came out, there were articles in R&R explaning that the reason these stations survive and thrive financially despite relatively low shares is that their wealthy-leaning audience causes them to bill well.

Otherwise, nearly every Triple A station that's existed over the last 20 years would've flipped, and at least half of the Alternative stations out there (many in major markets)

If Alternative and AAA didn't bill well, KYSR, KROQ, KDGE, KFOG, KITS, DC101, WXRT, WBOS, Radio 104.5 Philly, and hundreds of other stations would've flipped by now

I'll get on google today to find copies of articles that state directly that AAA/Alt bills well because of their target demographic, and I'll post it later today
 
atlantaboy said:
TheBigA said:
If Alternative billed well, Clear Channel would gladly blow up The Bull for it. But it's not. Country and pop make more money. Even a low rated pop station.
Click to expand...
Dude, you have no clue what you're talking about in terms of billing (and BTW no one is going to flip a Country station in a Southern market - that's crazy)
Click to expand...

Citadel blew up Y / Eagle 106.7 (Atlanta) Country station with a well established morning show for Oldies. In the last couple of months 95.1 Young Harris GA was Country now is Talk. There is no format that is safe if the billings are down!
 
acheron82 said:
Is there any evidence that these stations bill well?? I'm asking for proof.

The back and fourth accusations being made for and against alternative in Atlanta need to end though. Start giving out some hardcore facts that we can all see.
Click to expand...

http://www.paragonmediastrategies.com/case-studies/media-strategies/kfog.php

FROM THE LAST SENTENCE ON THE PAGE:
"Triple A is one of the highest billing formats on the radio in markets where it airs"
 
All of the posts about Alternative/AAA not being great in ratings and billing still make me think that the use of translators for an alt format is a fiscally responsible idea to keep the format alive. Again, I'm not familiar enough with the tower landscape and coverage any translator would get in the Atlanta area, but my example of Greenville's X98.5 is a station that may never have been viable on a full strength signal. The lower overhead of a translator or multiple translators -- assuming it also has no on-air personalities -- should make the format profitable regardless of whether it's "niche" or not.

Not a radio expert in terms of the technical basis of all this, but as a former Atlanta resident, I feel for you guys not having the format any longer. I lived through the days when 99X first came on the air and while there were groundbraking alternative stations before it (like WHFS in Washington), the station was still considered a trend setter in terms of giving alt artists exposure.

Moving to Greenville, aside from the short lived 103X, I never thought I'd see the day when we'd have an alternative station and Atlanta would not. But it's due to good use of translator signals. Don't know if it's possible on the Atlanta dial. Just a thought.
 
atlantaboy said:
Just wanted to post this again - there's no need to "beg" for translator signals for a format which bills well in all major markets except NYC (keeping in mind AAA and Alternative are now almost the same format)
Click to expand...

Not arguing that point but just sayin' for those that really think it doesn't bill well, that there's alternatives (no pun intended) to how it can be done.
 
I think a lot of that study, done in 2008, is thrown off by KROQ in LA, which is one of the highest billing stations in the country.

However, it would be a stretch to compare Atlanta to LA, and I don't see co-owned WXRT Chicago in that city's Top 10 either.

The biggest issue is the track record for launching NEW Alternative, AAA, or rock formatted stations in the last five years. It's been terrible. The audience for this music is among the highest users of new media, and they are also among the most particular about the songs and artists they want to hear. The programmers at WRXP New York were constantly being attacked on the NY board about their music selection. I never saw any similar complaints in any other music format.
 
atlantaboy said:
Just wanted to post this again - there's no need to "beg" for translator signals for a format which bills well in all major markets except NYC (keeping in mind AAA and Alternative are now almost the same format)

http://www.paragonmediastrategies.com/case-studies/media-strategies/kfog.php

FROM THE LAST SENTENCE ON THE PAGE:
"Triple A is one of the highest billing formats on the radio in markets where it airs"
Click to expand...
[/quote] I've found some problems with this:
1. Alternative and AAA are NOT almost the same format. They share about 15 tracks in their respective top 50 currents. (taken from americasmusiccharts.com) You might as well say CHR and AC are almost the same format. How many times have you heard an alternative play David Bowie, Talking Heads, or Rolling Stones (you know, artists that have become AAA staples)? How many pre-1991 singles do you hear on just about any Alternative station, keeping in mind AAA stations are loaded with pre-1990s music?
2. You know, your source is a consulting company that is talking about IT'S OWN CLIENTS. Would a consulting firm say that the client stations bill modestly at best?
3. The last sentence sounds great, but without any billing numbers or ranks, you can say a station that is 20th in market billings, but is one of the highest billing formats, so this sentence is very ambiguous. As TheBigA pointed out, WXRT is not one the top 10 billers in Chicago, and I've seen proof of that, so I would not say that it either is one of the highest billers in it's markets or that it bills especially well, considering it's 6+ ranking. The sports talker in Chicago is usually rated lower than WXRT, yet bills noticeably higher.
 
^It doesn't matter what I quote here, or how much info I find - I'm obviously running into a slew of posters either directly or indirectly related to CBS Radio, and the success of the Alternative format in Atlanta would be a DISASTER for them, in every possible way

Alternative and AAA are obviously profitable formats, or else they would have flipped in every other major market - ratings now are not much different from AAA ratings 10 years ago

The difference is that CBS had its mind set on FM Sports Radio (which is going to be a disaster in Atlanta), and to admit mistake would be the END OF ITS FM SPORTS MISSION IN OTHER MARKETS, and cost them MILLIONS OF POTENTIAL DOLLARS

Chrocket87, you're facts about AAA are completely outdated, but it doesn't matter, because to suggest 92.9 flip back to AAA would result in the same amount of CBS resistance
 
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