Alternative and Triple A Radio in Atlanta

[atlantaboy]

I think a lot of that study, done in 2008, is thrown off by KROQ in LA, which is one of the highest billing stations in the country.

Wow, you just completely proved that ALTERNATIVE STATIONS CAN HAVE HIGH BILLING DESPITE LOW RAW SHARES

KROQ is at/near the "bottom of its cluster", and has ratings almost identical to the average ratings of DC101, 106.5 The End/Charlotte, The Edge/Dallas, KYSR, KITS, WXRT, WBOS, and ratings below the average ratings of The Buzz/Houston, Cities97/Minneapolis, and Radio 104.5/Philly

If Alternative tends to appeal to a wealthy audience in L. A., it obviously tends to appeal to a wealthy audience in other major markets also

 

[chrocket87]

Chrocket87, you're facts about AAA are completely outdated, but it doesn't matter, because to suggest 92.9 flip back to AAA would result in the same amount of CBS resistance

Last ten songs on KFOG: 9:02 AM COLDPLAY Viva La Vida 2008 G
9:06 AM TALKING HEADS Wild Wild Life 1986 G
9:09 AM CHURCHILL Change 2011 C
9:13 AM NICKS, STEVIE/TOM PETTY Stop Draggin' My Heart Around 1981 G
9:17 AM MOBY South Side 2000 G
9:20 AM MUMFORD & SONS I Will Wait 2012 C
9:31 AM NEON TREES Animal 2009 G
9:34 AM YOUNGBLOOD HAWKE We Come Running 2012 C
9:40 AM LENNOX, ANNIE Walking On Broken Glass 1992 G
9:44 AM GRAFFITI6 Free 2011 R
9:48 AM NEW ORDER Blue Monday 1987 G
9:52 AM BEATLES Tomorrow Never Knows 1966 G
9:55 AM FAMILY OF THE YEAR Hero 2012 C

Last ten songs on WXRT:
9:02 AM MOBY Porcelain 1999 G
9:06 AM BOWIE, DAVID Golden Years 1975 G
9:10 AM MATT AND KIM Let's Go 2012 C
9:20 AM R.E.M. Man On The Moon 1992 G
9:26 AM BROOKS, JC & THE UPTOWN SOUND I Am Trying To Break Your ... 2009 G
9:36 AM CLASH London Calling 1980 G
9:39 AM ADELE Rumour Has It 2011 R
9:43 AM FERRY, BRYAN Don't Be Cruel 2001 G
9:46 AM SWEET, MATTHEW Girlfriend 1991 G
9:50 AM BAND OF HORSES Electric Music 2012 C
9:54 AM VERVE Bitter Sweet Symphony 1997 G
9:58 AM KERSHAW, NIK Wouldn't It Be Good 1983 G

You can research more on your own time, but these playlists have some currents in common with Alternative, but overall, they are nowhere near the same.

 

[TheBigA]

Wow, you just completely proved that ALTERNATIVE STATIONS CAN HAVE HIGH BILLING DESPITE LOW RAW SHARES

It's one station. As I've said, it's a heritage rock station that has a built-in audience spanning 40 years. It's also in the top-billing market in the country, with a very different audience from Atlanta. The owner of KROQ is CBS, and they already tried Alternative in Atlanta. Obviously the experience wasn't very good.

 

[TheBigA]

The difference is that CBS had its mind set on FM Sports Radio (which is going to be a disaster in Atlanta), and to admit mistake would be the END OF ITS FM SPORTS MISSION IN OTHER MARKETS, and cost them MILLIONS OF POTENTIAL DOLLARS

You keep saying this as though it's true, and I've already demonstrated that it's totally false. CBS has NOT blown up any other FMs in the country for sports. NONE. They got out of Alternative in Atlanta because the station was dead.

 

[stevensonair]

Do you think CBS would have skipped the opportunity to put its sports network on in Atlanta?

It isn't about individual ratings. It's about clearance for national advertising.

Dave was a goner when they needed to clear the network, performance of Dave was secondary.

 

[TheBigA]

Do you think CBS would have skipped the opportunity to put its sports network on in Atlanta?

They could have done what they did in Dallas or Tampa, and put it on an AM station. They own one in Atlanta. Obviously the reason they didn't was that Dave was the weakest link. They would NOT have blown up a money-maker to clear a network where they share the money with Cumulus.

 

[atlantaboy]

Wow, you just completely proved that ALTERNATIVE STATIONS CAN HAVE HIGH BILLING DESPITE LOW RAW SHARES

It's one station. As I've said, it's a heritage rock station that has a built-in audience spanning 40 years. It's also in the top-billing market in the country, with a very different audience from Atlanta.

KROQ's market share is 3.0, and you called them one of the highest billing stations in the country.

When I mentioned Alternative/AAA stations with similar and/or higher ratings in Washington, Charlotte, Houston, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Boston, San Diego, etc., you stated they were "at the bottom of their clusters", and were not making any money

When I stated that Alt/AAA stations bill well despite their low share, because their audience is wealthy, you stated that is untrue, and that only low rated pop and country stations bill well

I notice you were very carfeul to complement a CBS-owned Alternative station, and quick to dismiss the success of Alternative/AAA stations owned by anyone else - in addition, the quote I cited stated that Triple A was one of the highest biling formats, and you attributed that to KROQ (which isn't even a Triple A station)

Do you work for CBS?

 

[TheBigA]

If you read everything I wrote, and not just pick the lines you like, you'll see that I've already said that you can have low ratings and good billings in LA. But Atlanta isn't LA, right? And all those other stations aren't billing well.

 

[TheBigA]

Do you work for CBS?

I answered this before. No.

 

[atlantaboy]

If you read everything I wrote, and not just pick the lines you like, you'll see that I've already said that you can have low ratings and good billings in LA. But Atlanta isn't LA, right? And all those other stations aren't billing well.

So - just to sum up what you're saying...

You can have low ratings and good billings in L. A.
You can't have low ratings and good billings in Chicago
You can't have low ratings and good billings in San Francisco
You can't have low ratings and good billings in Dallas
You can't have low ratings and good billings in Washington DC
And. therefore, you can't have low ratings and good billings in Atlanta

Makes sense, man :

 

[TheBigA]

So - just to sum up what you're saying...

You can have low ratings and good billings in L. A.
You can't have low ratings and good billings in Chicago
You can't have low ratings and good billings in San Francisco
You can't have low ratings and good billings in Dallas
You can't have low ratings and good billings in Washington DC
And. therefore, you can't have low ratings and good billings in Atlanta

Makes sense, man :

The ONLY market I talked about is LA. The rest you made up.

You still haven't addressed the fact that CBS, Cumulus, and Clear Channel all own Alternative format stations in those other markets, they also own stations in Atlanta, and all three have chosen NOT to go alternative in Atlanta. Why?

 

[Dan6053]

Now come on folks, even Reno, Nevada has a AAA station. WTF!!! Sacramento, CA has an alternative station. So does Fresno, CA so does Tampa. God, these folks on here saying it does not work are killing me!! Remember music midtown, how big it was. 99x brought many of those bands to town!!

 

[atlantaboy]

So - just to sum up what you're saying...

You can have low ratings and good billings in L. A.
You can't have low ratings and good billings in Chicago
You can't have low ratings and good billings in San Francisco
You can't have low ratings and good billings in Dallas
You can't have low ratings and good billings in Washington DC
And. therefore, you can't have low ratings and good billings in Atlanta

Makes sense, man :

The ONLY market I talked about is LA. The rest you made up.

You still haven't addressed the fact that CBS, Cumulus, and Clear Channel all own Alternative format stations in those other markets, they also own stations in Atlanta, and all three have chosen NOT to go alternative in Atlanta. Why?

There's a lot of politics involved in flipping stations (which is why we're having this discussion IMO) - Clear Channel doesn't have anything to flip except for Wild, and posters have stated that that signal is unlistenable in and around the city, where most of the Alternative fan base would tend to be - and Cumulus already has The Bone, so Alternative isn't really an option - AAA is, possibly on 100.5, but apparently The Regular Guys won't fit on anything that's not hetero-male oriented

As far as why CBS can't flip 92.9 back to Alternative, we've covered that topic extensively

 

[TheBigA]

As far as why CBS can't flip 92.9 back to Alternative, we've covered that topic extensively

Except that your side of the discussion isn't based on any facts. You believe they would blow up a profitable station for no reason, and keep losing money because of pride. I have no reason to believe that's true.

 

[atlantaboy]

You believe they would blow up a profitable station for no reason, and keep losing money because of pride.

No, I believe that they thought flipping Dave to FM Sports would be MORE profitable than keeping it as is, and would help spread their nationwide FM Sports agenda, an agenda which is clearly outlined on the CBS Radio Website

Again, keeping The Game as is may mean losing money locally, but as I've posted before, if CBS were to flip 92.9 back to Alternative/AAA, they would lose all credibility with potential investors and be unable to gather momentum to flip other stations to FM Sports in markets that are more sports-oriented than ATL is

Keeping 92.9 as FM Sports might cost them a little bit of money locally, but keeping the FM Sports agenda going means gaining millions of dollars nationwide

 

[atlantaboy]

Except that your side of the discussion isn't based on any facts.

In October, 92.9 Dave FM had a share of 2.5
In December, 92.9 The Game had a share of 0.7

That's the only "side" of this discussion that is based on facts

And, sorry, but I can't see any other motivation for you to go to an out-of-state forum and argue incessantly for pages and pages that Alternative isn't a viable format there

I believe you have some connection to CBS

 

[TheBigA]

No, I believe that they thought flipping Dave to FM Sports would be MORE profitable than keeping it as is, and would help spread their nationwide FM Sports agenda, an agenda which is clearly outlined on the CBS Radio Website

If it's an agenda, why haven't they flipped any other major market FM to sports except Atlanta?

Again, keeping The Game as is may mean losing money locally, but as I've posted before, if CBS were to flip 92.9 back to Alternative/AAA, they would lose all credibility with potential investors and be unable to gather momentum to flip other stations to FM Sports in markets that are more sports-oriented than ATL is

Since you bring up losing money with sports, tell me how much were they making with Alternative. I'd like to know.

As I've posted, CBS has a track record of flipping back to previous formats without regard to credibility. They aren't pitching sports to "poetntial investors" so it doesn't matter. Cumulus is the company that is selling the sports network, not CBS. Stop making crap up about things you know nothing about.

Those are all the facts you need

You're posting 6+ numbers, and no one sells 6+ numbers.

Programming decisions are made about money, not ratings. Those are all the facts you need.

I believe you have some connection to CBS

You've been shown to be wrong throughout this thread, so what else is new?

 

[atlantaboy]

Those are all the facts you need

You're posting 6+ numbers, and no one sells 6+ numbers.

You're really going through every excuse in the book lol, cover to cover

If you have access to demographic breakdowns, why don't you tell us how The Game ranked in December vs. how Dave ranked in October in various demos

Otherwise, I don't see you producing any facts at all

 

[TheBigA]

Otherwise, I don't see you producing any facts at all

You're the one trying to sell alternative here, so the onus is on YOU to produce facts. Otherwise things stay status quo.

The only facts you have are 6+ ratings after 3 months. If a station flipped to alternative, you'd want them to stay with the format for more than three months, right?

 

[atlantaboy]

Otherwise, I don't see you producing any facts at all

You're the one trying to sell alternative here, so the onus is on YOU to produce facts. Otherwise things stay status quo.

The only facts you have are 6+ ratings after 3 months. If a station flipped to alternative, you'd want them to stay with the format for more than three months, right?

Wow, you just completely admitted that you don't have any facts at all

The Game has a 0.7 share - Dave had a 2.5 share - the burden is on CBS (i. e. the company you either work for or are being paid to defend) to produce facts, and you're not coming up with any - otherwise, your advertisers are going to bail on you very soon