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TheBigA said:
Alright, then let's hear some of those facts you have...
The 0.7 is a topline figure. A nothing statistic. The question is, what are the figures in the target demographics. The CBS Atlanta management must see value in what they have created for them to take a topline hit.
TheBigA said:
Hmmm...okay, then, let's scroll back through the last 10 pages of the thread, and look at the facts you've presented us...in 10 pages, you gave us 2 facts
One - KROQ/Los Angeles (Alternative) is a high billing station
Two - WFAN/New York (Sports) is a high billing station
I'm sorry - you really did give us a lot of facts supporting your argument :
- wait, no, I'm being sarcasticIn terms of facts proving that FM Sports bills higher than Alterantive, IN A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF MARKETS, you gave us No Facts
Wait - maybe I'm not paying attention - I'll go back and look again...
Yep, 2 facts - one supporting Alternative, one against
Here's another quote about AAA billing above its share and having a wealthy target audience (regarding WBOS/Boston)
http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?action=printpage;topic=19550.0
From this fifth post on that page: "Eli Polonsky has mentioned a few times that WBOS billing is #2 in Greater Media's cluster due to the affluent target audience"
This in addition to the fact that KROQ, an Alternative station in Los Angeles, is 3rd in billing, while #14 in ratings
http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?action=printpage;topic=19550.0
From this fifth post on that page: "Eli Polonsky has mentioned a few times that WBOS billing is #2 in Greater Media's cluster due to the affluent target audience"
This in addition to the fact that KROQ, an Alternative station in Los Angeles, is 3rd in billing, while #14 in ratings
atlantaboy said:
The key fact is there are three companies that own radio stations in Atlanta that also own alternative stations in other markets: Clear Channel, Cumulus, and CBS.
None of them have chosen to use that format on any of their stations in Atlanta.
These are three COMPETING companies, each of whom has a selfish self interest to program radio stations to maximize revenues. NONE of them have chosen alternative. So that leads me to believe that none of these companies feel they can increase their revenues by adding the format in this market.
How do you respond?
I'm an Alternative fan, and I tend to agree with BigA - if these companies saw money in Alternative, don't you think they would have been on it? OK, in CBS, Cumulus's, and Cox's defense, they don't have anywhere to put it (Cumulus does I guess, but they dropped Alternative right round the time Dave flipped, so they didn't want to keep it), but Clear Channel has several underperforming frequencies.
As I said in another thread, no corporate company has gone AAA in ages to my knowledge, and they don't own many AAA's, so I'd say that format's dead in Atlanta unless a locally owned station picks it up.
Plain and simple: if Alternative comes back to Atlanta, it's gonna have to be on a Clear Channel station. If CC does a flip, and it's not to Alternative, IMO that will speak volumes. I feel your pain, I waited for Alternative to finally come back to my market for years - 16 years it went without one, but it did finally come back, so don't give up hope.
As I said in another thread, no corporate company has gone AAA in ages to my knowledge, and they don't own many AAA's, so I'd say that format's dead in Atlanta unless a locally owned station picks it up.
Plain and simple: if Alternative comes back to Atlanta, it's gonna have to be on a Clear Channel station. If CC does a flip, and it's not to Alternative, IMO that will speak volumes. I feel your pain, I waited for Alternative to finally come back to my market for years - 16 years it went without one, but it did finally come back, so don't give up hope.
TheBigA said:
Clear Channel and Cumulus can't just "chose Alternative" overnight - if we're talking about a full commercial station, the process takes time, exec meetings, meetings with advertisers, etc., and it involves a lot of politics around what station is going to take the hit
Your post above assumes that CC, Cumulus, or some smaller company can just create a new FM frequency and put a new station on the dial - instead, they have to deal with the politics of the stations they could possibly flip
I don't see anything Clear Channel is in a position to flip right now except for Wild, and, as stated before, that signal currently doesn't cover inside the beltway, where the bulk of the Alt/AAA audience would be - they could look at altering the signal, etc., but that's a decision and process that takes time, applying for signal increase, direction, etc.
Cumulus just started up "The Bone", so their only option is AAA (I've never heard of a co-owned Alternative and Active Rock in the same market) - they've got 100.5 poitically linked to the Regular Guys Morning Show, which wouldn't fit AAA at all - they've got 106.7, but like CBS, they just flipped it, so of course, like CBS, they've extremely hesitatant to re-flip it too soon, or they'll look like idiots
All the facts I've mentioned prove that the Alternative/AAA format is a profitable investment - but that doesn't mean a major corporation is going to immediately kill an estalbished station (like The Bull), or it will lose credibility with advertisers well established in that format
Radio One could make more money flipping its Gospel station, but that's a hugely loyal audience in a very religious market, and they'd have religious institutions complaining - probably not a good idea
Clear Channel has a Regional Mexican station it could flip, but I'm assuming that's a very specific audience that really can't be reached by advertisers any other way
Radio corporations have to look at the bigger picture, not just what format would immediately make the most money
carolinaradio said:
The number of AAAs are dwindling, but there are many hugely successful corporate Alternatives - CBS ownds KROQ, which is the 3rd bigges billing station in L. A. Clear Channel owns The Buzz/Houston, which is currently 6th in the market, 6+ ratings, and the highest rated station in the market that targets males - Clear Channel also owns Radio 104.5 Philaldelphia, which is currently 8th in the market, 6+ ratings, and the fourth highest rated station in the market that targets males
And looking at how high KROQ bills compared to its share, as well as KFOG and WBOS (refering to articles I quoted), I'm convinced that DC101, The Edge/Dallas, The Buzz/Houston, Radio 104.5/Philly, and Cities 97/Minneapolis ALL BILL WELL ABOVE THEIR SHARE, SINCE WE NOW HAVE CONFIRMATION THAT THREE OTHER ALT/AAA STATIONS BILL WELL ABOVE THEIR SHARE
D
Dan6053
Guest
I agree that the big 3 corporations are not interested really in AAA radio. But man, there sure are still AAA commercial stations. In the southeast, alone there is
1. Lightning 100.1 FM out of Nashville, TN
2. I 105 FM out of Knoxville, TN
3. 92.1 FM The Zew out of Mobile, Al
4. 98.1 FM The River out of Asheville, NC
And then there are stations like 92.5 FM The River out of Boston, MA
The Tiger 93.9 FM out of Montgomery, AL is Alternative and borders on AAA.
So is 104.9 FM the Gump out of Montgomery, AL
At this point I would be completey happy with another Alternative station back in Atlanta. Atlanta was once such a cool city. My friends from Montgomery came over last weekend and just laughed at me when I told them we no longer had an Alternative station in Atlanta. They were in complete disbelief. When I told them about this forum they asked what happened to all the thousands of people that used to go to Big Day Out, The Broo Ha ha, Music Midtown and on and on. I said, I guess they all just moved away.
1. Lightning 100.1 FM out of Nashville, TN
2. I 105 FM out of Knoxville, TN
3. 92.1 FM The Zew out of Mobile, Al
4. 98.1 FM The River out of Asheville, NC
And then there are stations like 92.5 FM The River out of Boston, MA
The Tiger 93.9 FM out of Montgomery, AL is Alternative and borders on AAA.
So is 104.9 FM the Gump out of Montgomery, AL
At this point I would be completey happy with another Alternative station back in Atlanta. Atlanta was once such a cool city. My friends from Montgomery came over last weekend and just laughed at me when I told them we no longer had an Alternative station in Atlanta. They were in complete disbelief. When I told them about this forum they asked what happened to all the thousands of people that used to go to Big Day Out, The Broo Ha ha, Music Midtown and on and on. I said, I guess they all just moved away.
The majority of the stations listed are owned/run by single operators or smaller companies. There are two reasons for this being the case: 1) it's hard to compete with the big boys on national buys, local ratings and/or dominance and they generally go with the standard most popular formats. 2) The format is less important to the bigger companies, so the chances of having a direct competitor from a bigger company is less of a threat.
That allows a small company to have a fighting chance to hit a niche and survive. As for a number of the stations on the list, most of them aren't getting rich, so are making little or nothing. But it is better than losing money.
In my hometown of America's Music City, he exceptional Nashville, WRLT has been going for twenty years. It has not cracked above a 2.5 share in at least a decade, that I recall, at least. It's not subscribing to Arbitron now. The single operator allows the station to continue because it's not his primary focus or income, but more a labor of goodwill to the city. It's small audience is pretty loyal, yet has had some pretty serious blows in the last year. It's probably time that it evolve or change, but whatcha gonna flip too?
Oh, and for what it is worth...three country stations, Crum, has two of those. Why fight for average ratings? Cause you gotta have a country station because it's Nashville. Money or ego? Latter. It's not that unusual to actually make a lot less than you should because of head strong egos or lack of total focus.
That allows a small company to have a fighting chance to hit a niche and survive. As for a number of the stations on the list, most of them aren't getting rich, so are making little or nothing. But it is better than losing money.
In my hometown of America's Music City, he exceptional Nashville, WRLT has been going for twenty years. It has not cracked above a 2.5 share in at least a decade, that I recall, at least. It's not subscribing to Arbitron now. The single operator allows the station to continue because it's not his primary focus or income, but more a labor of goodwill to the city. It's small audience is pretty loyal, yet has had some pretty serious blows in the last year. It's probably time that it evolve or change, but whatcha gonna flip too?
Oh, and for what it is worth...three country stations, Crum, has two of those. Why fight for average ratings? Cause you gotta have a country station because it's Nashville. Money or ego? Latter. It's not that unusual to actually make a lot less than you should because of head strong egos or lack of total focus.
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